Why is there middle-class support for the Republican platform?

I certainly understand people who support the Republican platform for ideological reasons, but I am confounded at why people of modest means support Republican economic policies. The working middle-class has seen very rough times over the last eight years. Is a couple hundred dollar tax refunds sufficient to make people forget every other negative economic development?

I often hear conservative people grumble how Democrats will "raise our taxes" and "cost jobs for Americans." However, prior to even this recent economic crisis, those in the middle-class seemed to lose their jobs, benefits, homes; payed higher prices; and had to work harder for less. It seems the middle-class has shrunk and come closer to having more in common with the poor than the wealthy.

Is there a rational basis for middle-class Americans to feel the economy would be better under a Republican platform?

It has virtually everything to do with the romanticism of "have your cake and eat it too" philosophy of taxation and government programs in the modern era. Sweet songs like "I can spend my money better than the government" and "a rising tide raises all ships."

In reality, supply-side economics policies, put in place since Reagan in 1980, are a colossal up that we are STILL feeling the short-term effects of. Anyone who wets their finger and sticks it in the air to test the direction of the wind will discover the reality. The rest of those people who rely on the soothing sounds of political spin will remain unconvinced that concentrating wealth in the hands of the wealthy and the pace of globalization have put us where we are far faster than any tax increase did.

Short answer: people aren't paying attention to the world around them and are ing idiots.

In my opinion, it's the perception that the Democratic platform is based on expanding government to create programs to benefit those to contribute least from a tax perspective. For those that struggle financially to maintain a "middle class" lifestyle, it would be understandable to feel indignant about this.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, let me emphasize that I don't espouse this view, as it oversimplfies the difference between the liberal and conservative platforms, but I do think many people feel this way.

Seconding Myke.

Trickle down economics could work if all the jobs created by high level tax cuts couldn't be outsourced to a third world country.

Politicians sell a good game and get almost everybody to kill themselves off.

[quote name='dopa345']In my opinion, it's the perception that the Democratic platform is based on expanding government to create programs to benefit those to contribute least from a tax perspective. For those that struggle financially to maintain a "middle class" lifestyle, it would be understandable to feel indignant about this.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, let me emphasize that I don't espouse this view, as it oversimplfies the difference between the liberal and conservative platforms, but I do think many people feel this way.[/QUOTE]

There's also this element above, which compounds is the "what do you mean by 'middle class'?" element. Middle class defined solely by income ranges from ~$30K annualy to ~$157K. Which is about 60+% of the country's wage earners (20 above and 20 below), in 2004 dollars. But in that 60%, there's a helluva lot of variation b/w what your living standard is on 30K and what it is on 157K.

[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Trickle down economics could work if all the jobs created by high level tax cuts couldn't be outsourced to a third world country.[/QUOTE]

Or this. I'll agree with that, too.

I think it's like dopa said. The perception is that the Republican platform is for people earning and keeping their own money, fairness, morality, smaller and less intrusive government whereas the Democrats want to take your hard earned money and give it to people who are too lazy to work, unfairly give minorities say over majorities, encourage depravity and a un-christian values, and have a big government that controls you.

I'm absolutely astounded by it sometimes. My father-in-law, one of the brightest people I know and a life long accountant, votes Republican because Democrats are socialists. For the first time the other night, I actually ribbed him. I said it seems to me that the difference between socialists and American capitalists is that socialists pay their bills.

I think it's morality mostly. Moral issues far outweigh economic issues to most people that support the Republican party anyway.

I would even go as far to say that the majority of it has to do with abortion. If the democratic party decided to be pro-life, I think the Republican party would begin to dissolve.

Yeah I agree with thrust, while the tax issues are part of it as a lot of people don't get it, I think a lot of it has to do with social conservatism.

Many people vote on silly hot button issues like abortion, gay marriage, death penalty and on down the line rather than stuff that directly effects them like foreign policy, which candidate's tax plan would be better for their family (same with health care plans) etc.

It takes effort to be informed on such issues. It takes no effort to follow the right/left line on moral issues. I list both as people vote for democrats because they are pro choice just like people go republican because they are pro life etc.

I'm pretty sure the driving factor is fear. A lot of people who are religious get exposed to extreme beliefs (things that shouldn't be political, like gay marriage), and then there's stuff like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5fdzji2C54&feature=related

[quote name='RoboBlue']I'm pretty sure the driving factor is fear. A lot of people who are religious get exposed to extreme beliefs (things that shouldn't be political, like gay marriage), and then there's stuff like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5fdzji2C54&feature=related[/QUOTE]

that guy hangs around Iowa City where I just moved to (that video is from davenport right across the bridge from where I used to live). He was talking about rape and babbling about abortion on the street last week, when my friend Dan ask him if "double rape" (the act of two people who are unknowing of each's other motives are trying to rape each other) is morally wrong and he just ignored him.

He walks down the street and stands on a milk crate downtown all the time. Needless to say, he is ultra-liberal Iowa City's favorite person.

To answer the original question, THIS is why..

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34e_1224662447

[quote name='Capitalizt']To answer the original question, THIS is why..

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34e_1224662447[/QUOTE]

I think that is pretty accurate.

The OP is confused about this issue because it needs to be realize that there is a very large majority out there that is far more concerned about the candidates religious background and views than the economic 'free stuff' they might get.

The lord will provide. lol

[quote name='speedracer']The lord will provide. lol[/quote]


what's even funnier is that McCain never goes to church and probably an agnostic at the very least....even though he would never admit that.

[quote name='Capitalizt']To answer the original question, THIS is why..

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34e_1224662447[/QUOTE]

Fat in ham chuggin' bitch.
I loathe people like her, so so very much.

[quote name='lilboo']Fat in ham chuggin' bitch.
I loathe people like her, so so very much.[/QUOTE]
They're the ones that really get under my skin too. I get the sneaking suspicion that if we could ask her penetrating questions regarding what government is supposed to be, we'd get answers that could probably be very strongly correlated to fascism.

I think religion plays alot into it. Also, I think alot of people are honestly afraid of a non-white President no matter who's running on the Republican side.

Regarding that clip above: I still don't understand why Christians use the Bible to say that other people aren't Christians. Jesus would be very sad that she feels that way. I'm still looking for the Jesus quote that says, "Love everyone unless they go to your specific church and subscribe to your particular brand of Christianity."

While I agree with you, depascal22, even I have to raise an eyebrow at anyone that embraces a church/congregation that is so racially one sided and welcoming.

[quote name='thrustbucket']While I agree with you, depascal22, even I have to raise an eyebrow at anyone that embraces a church/congregation that is so racially one sided and welcoming.[/quote]

Obama has stated that he chose a black church so he could get closer to his black roots. Remember, he only met his father once or twice in his life and he's been to Kenya only once. Wright's church was a chance for him to find out who he was. As a mixed man that's never met my father, I can't blame him for wanting to embrace his Black side.

Also, churches are not just about the pastor. Many congregations have a life of their own and offer separate pros and cons when you take in the whole experience and not just one crazed rant from the pastor.

Besides, it's not like there aren't white pastors and preachers that don't step over the line. I'm sure you can find some backwoods preachers that are claiming that all Blacks are inferior or that Hispanics are taking over the nation.

Can you really blame a group of people for being pissed off? Slavery's been outlawed for over 100 years and we're just now getting a Presidential nomination? Blacks have been shat upon for years. Can you blame us for being a little on edge? We were brought to this country as slaves and now we're still locked up in greater percentage. Hell, I've had my own experiences with the white establishment that could've poisoned my opinion of this country forever.

[quote name='Capitalizt']To answer the original question, THIS is why..

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34e_1224662447[/QUOTE]

I think that defeats the purpose of discussing what drives people to vote Republican.

There are legitimate reasons, and "stupidity" isn't one of them. There are well-reasons, well-thought, conservative writers. Shame Buckley's dead, since he was one of the best of them. The closest you'll get today is PJ O'Rourke, who always seemed more Libertarian, and *shudder* George Will.

Yes, THAT George Will. Shows you how low the bar is for conservative thought, no?

[quote name='depascal22']I think religion plays alot into it. Also, I think alot of people are honestly afraid of a non-white President no matter who's running on the Republican side.

Regarding that clip above: I still don't understand why Christians use the Bible to say that other people aren't Christians. Jesus would be very sad that she feels that way. I'm still looking for the Jesus quote that says, "Love everyone unless they go to your specific church and subscribe to your particular brand of Christianity."[/QUOTE]

That made me chuckle and think of this article: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28151

[quote name='thrustbucket']While I agree with you, depascal22, even I have to raise an eyebrow at anyone that embraces a church/congregation that is so racially one sided and welcoming.[/QUOTE]

Are you referring to Wright's church? What inspired this quote?

Riddle me this: who said the following: ""Eleven o'clock Sunday morning is the most segregated hour in America"?

I think the Republicans have done such a great job to make this all about the culture divide. They've made everyone afraid that the Dems will have gay weddings and abortions in the White House and build a moving sidewalk from Tijuana to San Diego. The policies (both foreign and domestic) are pretty similar.

[quote name='depascal22']Obama has stated that he chose a black church so he could get closer to his black roots. Remember, he only met his father once or twice in his life and he's been to Kenya only once. Wright's church was a chance for him to find out who he was. As a mixed man that's never met my father, I can't blame him for wanting to embrace his Black side.[/quote]
Fair enough.

Also, churches are not just about the pastor. Many congregations have a life of their own and offer separate pros and cons when you take in the whole experience and not just one crazed rant from the pastor.

Click to expand...

I acknowledge that. But I would be slightly suspicious of anyone that contributes, in any way, to a church that focuses on one particular ethnicity to begin with. Doesn't matter which ethnicity.

In my mind, part of what makes a Christian church Christian is the welcome mat on the front door for every race, color, and background. A truly Christian church aspires to be a melting pot. Anything else, is more of a community social club with religious overtones, imo.

Besides, it's not like there aren't white pastors and preachers that don't step over the line. I'm sure you can find some backwoods preachers that are claiming that all Blacks are inferior or that Hispanics are taking over the nation.

Click to expand...

Oh absolutely there are, and I condemn them just the same. Those church's/pastors not only give Christianity a bad name, but religion in general.

Can you really blame a group of people for being pissed off? Slavery's been outlawed for over 100 years and we're just now getting a Presidential nomination? Blacks have been shat upon for years. Can you blame us for being a little on edge? We were brought to this country as slaves and now we're still locked up in greater percentage. Hell, I've had my own experiences with the white establishment that could've poisoned my opinion of this country forever.

Click to expand...

I am sure that you have. Thank's for rising above that, actually.

Although I do take some issue with the "just now getting a Presidential nomination" comment. Racial tensions aside, Black population, currently, hovers around 13%. I'm not sure you should expect much differently in any country. Hell, hispanic outnumber black, and we haven't gotten a hispanic president yet either.

I do have one semi-personal question for you though, if you don't mind. Just curious really: If you are a mixed race (without knowing what races), what makes you identify yourself as a black man? (I'm also curious about why Obama does)


[quote name='mykevermin']
Riddle me this: who said the following: ""Eleven o'clock Sunday morning is the most segregated hour in America"?[/QUOTE]
MLKj.
It's a sad observation that still applies today.

[quote name='depascal22']I think the Republicans have done such a great job to make this all about the culture divide. They've made everyone afraid that the Dems will have gay weddings and abortions in the White House and build a moving sidewalk from Tijuana to San Diego. The policies (both foreign and domestic) are pretty similar.[/QUOTE]
Now now. I think both parties deal heavily in divisiveness. Very heavily. Democrats do it economically and racially all the time. I think Democrats, by far, play race cards more than Republicans. But you are right that Republicans play the illegal alien and abortion cards.

And yes, you are totally right that the policies are similar. Too similar in fact, as anyone reading between the lines during the debates would see.

I consider myself conservative, and have supported republicans in the past. I would have to agree with the late Buckley's son in saying "I haven't left the Republican Party, it left me."

I'm firmly in Obama's camp this year, not because I agree with 100% of his policies, but because I think he's a man of vision, character, and integrity. And a leader of the kind that this country desperately needs.

All that being said, as a middle class American, I could see myself voting R, for the right candidate, and for the right platform. It wouldn't have taken much of a change to get me to vote for McCain.

[quote name='thrustbucket']I do have one semi-personal question for you though, if you don't mind. Just curious really: If you are a mixed race (without knowing what races), what makes you identify yourself as a black man? (I'm also curious about why Obama does)[/quote]

I can't answer for him, obviously, but it's not really up to him or Obama as society has always labeled anyone who appears black as black. They may not identify themselves as that, but everybody else certainly will from the day they're born, so it depends on whether you want to continually go against that or not. I can't even imagine what would happen if Obama publicly identified himself as white. It would certainly be interesting.

And as for the church, I doubt that Obama's church would deny white people entry or participation. The fact that black and white churches are so segregated now is probably because of many factors - the segregated past, the fact that churches have traditionally been a place for black people to congregate where whites would actually let them (and so the churches became not only a place for worship, but a place for discussing issues specific to the black community), and the different styles of worship.

I think both parties have left the country behind.

[quote name='KingBroly']I think both parties have left the country behind.[/quote]


Exactly......I could care less if the president was a gay transvestite indian striper. Why cant we all just stfu and put multiple people in charge who arent complete idiots

[quote name='thrustbucket']I do have one semi-personal question for you though, if you don't mind. Just curious really: If you are a mixed race (without knowing what races), what makes you identify yourself as a black man? (I'm also curious about why Obama does)[/quote]

Because I can't drive in Oakland or East St. Louis without getting pulled over. One time, my buddy got pulled over on the way to an Oakland A's game. He didn't have a current license, registration, OR insurance. The cop was all friendly with him and addressed him by his first name. I got a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt in the BACK of the car.

Also, because crazy gas station attendants in Appalachia wouldn't directly take my money. At first, I thought she was just a germophobe but then I crossed into West Virginia and the hotel clerk wouldn't even look at me.

Then there's the girl I wanted to date when I was in middle school. I went to Fayetteville Middle School in Georgia. Everything was cool until she just stopped talking to me or walking by my locker. I eventually found out that her brother told her parents. They actually threatened to disown her if she went out with that "Colored Boy."

I always check the Other box when I'm filling out forms but I've actually had some teachers bring the form back and tell me to fill out Black or I'll end up getting in trouble. So I don't really consider myself Black but America sure does.

[quote name='depascal22']Because I can't drive in Oakland or East St. Louis without getting pulled over. One time, my buddy got pulled over on the way to an Oakland A's game. He didn't have a current license, registration, OR insurance. The cop was all friendly with him and addressed him by his first name. I got a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt in the BACK of the car.

Also, because crazy gas station attendants in Appalachia wouldn't directly take my money. At first, I thought she was just a germophobe but then I crossed into West Virginia and the hotel clerk wouldn't even look at me.

Then there's the girl I wanted to date when I was in middle school. I went to Fayetteville Middle School in Georgia. Everything was cool until she just stopped talking to me or walking by my locker. I eventually found out that her brother told her parents. They actually threatened to disown her if she went out with that "Colored Boy."

I always check the Other box when I'm filling out forms but I've actually had some teachers bring the form back and tell me to fill out Black or I'll end up getting in trouble. So I don't really consider myself Black but America sure does.[/QUOTE]

...

This is like.. 2008. This is amazing.
My nephew is mixed, but he's only 1 so HOPEFULLY by the time he's older shit's a tad bit better.. :lol:

But there are SOME people who are mixed, but they do not look it. My nephew is very light and you wouldn't realize it. He's probably gonna be considered white.. :lol: but we'll see. He's like..tan.


Dep, are you fairly dark and have a lot of "black features"? Penis not included, but def not open to knowing

I've heard that I look everything from Black to Puerto Rican (because I can speak Spanish) to Mediterranean. I can't really pass for white since I've got some nappy hair.

[quote name='depascal22']
I always check the Other box when I'm filling out forms but I've actually had some teachers bring the form back and tell me to fill out Black or I'll end up getting in trouble. So I don't really consider myself Black but America sure does.[/QUOTE]

That's pretty jacked up.

I SORTA know what you are talking about. Ever since I grew my hair rather long, I have noticed I get treated very differently almost everywhere. People are people.

When I was seventeen a redneck farmer where I lived threatened to put me in my place with his "...brother in white." I don't think things are gonna get better anytime soon.

[quote name='Capitalizt']To answer the original question, THIS is why..

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34e_1224662447[/quote]


Really? I mean, come on, REALLY?

More head scratching for the OP:

The Republican (McCain) is making headway with middle- and working- class voters, and has surged 10 points in two days among those earning between $30,000 and $75,000.

Click to expand...

Source.

This reminds me of something I heard on NPR this morning on the drive to work. Some Stupid Shit said, " I don't care if everyone is bankrupt, and none of us have any money. As long as Gays Can't Marry, and We don't have abortions, WE WILL PREVAIL IN GOD's EYES!!"

Needless to say I just about put my fist through the dashboard. I hate people. I really hate people.

We need to talk all of them, put them in Alaska, and let clown shoes Sarah Palin rule them all.

[quote name='thrustbucket']That's pretty jacked up.

I SORTA know what you are talking about. Ever since I grew my hair rather long, I have noticed I get treated very differently almost everywhere. People are people.[/quote]
That applies to a lot of things. Try dressing in a t-shirt and jeans and then a suit and see how differently you are treated.

Appearance effects so much of our perception of a person.

You can blame Joe the Plumber for the surge in the middle class support for McCain. They honestly believe that they'll be running businesses that make 250k in the next four years so they don't want to chance an Obama Presidency. That and "Spreading the wealth around" was the single worst thing that Obama could've ever said during this election. The cries of Socialism are getting ridiculous. You can point out McCain's support for the bailout or Palin's not so middle class actions and it doesn't matter. All they can see is that bald er with his arms crossed and Obama trying to explain his tax plan.