i beat Shadow Hearts: Covenant!!! (SPOILERS)

cthcky33

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i finally finished my shadow hearts marathon, i beat the first one, then beat the second one. so ive been playing a lot of shadow hearts the last few weeks. i must say, the ending of covenant is really cool but i have one question for anyone else whose beaten it.....

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is Karin Yuri's mother?? thats what it seemed like to me. and also, did yuri die?? or did he end up just going back to relive all the stuff with alice, i couldnt tell if that was actually happening, or if he was just doing it in his head or something. and finally, i know if when you talk to jeanne and you pick "i want to live life peacefully", you get a bad ending, i was just wondering what that bad ending is, cuz i picked "i want to life life my way" or whatever it was















End Spoilers:
 
Warning: My whole post is spoiler-ific.












1. Karin is Yuri's mother. at one point Anastasia applied for Karin to have goodwill papers from Russia under the name "Anne". You can see this in a cutscene when they left the Battleship Mikasa, after the old man Kawashima pulled some strings to free them. The theory among many people who complete SH:C is that she still had those papers and decided to live as Anne when she travelled back in time.

2. What you got was the good ending, Yuri dies with his memories intact. In the bad ending, he decides to live by sacrificing his memories. He returns to wales an empty shell of a man, who doesn't even remember his own name.




Here's the meaning of the three endings, from Matsuzo Machida, head of development in Nautilus. It was included in the Japanese guide and was translated to English by some guy at gamefaqs. I took this from there, so credit goes to the guy who wrote the FAQ, Sicondera.





.:YURI'S "GOOD" ENDING:.

In the "Good Ending", Yuri watches his friends disappear one by one, each going
to the place they most wanted to be. He never lets on about his own decision,
to bring his life to a close there on the Plains.

He was running. He was desperately trying to escape the terrifying turn his
life had taken. He was *way* out of character... or so say the many letters
we have received on the matter. That certainly seems the case, if you think
Yuri was just giving up so he could get off easy.

But Yuri did *not* give up his fight. The curse of the Holy Mistletoe is
absolute. Yuri would, no matter what, lose all of his memories just a few
moments later. Every single last fragment of the life he'd lived would be
eaten away by the curse. All the days he spent with his friends and the fights
he fought at their side-- gone. Alice, and his bottomless love for her--
erased. Everything, reset as if it had never been.

That's the situation Yuri was facing. Drain from a person his memories and
beliefs. What does that leave? Think about it for a second. Scary, isn't it.
Take memory, belief and thought, ball them up and tie them together with the
desire to live life to it's fullest and you get something which has, to my
mind, value at least equal to that of life itself. Flip that around, and you
have the idea that, being alive, you have the obligation to think for yourself
and live a life you won't regret.

Yuri made the decision to die after he talked with Alice in the train. He
chose to protect the life she'd given him through death. It's a difficult
concept to grasp. I'm sure Yuri had worries over whether or not he'd be
understood.



.:YURI'S "BAD" ENDING:.

On the other hand, "Bad" Ending Yuri chooses to preserve his existance at the
cost of his memories. They buy him a small glimmer of hope-- that maybe,
someday, he'll be able to recover them. Or so it's implied. But I just want
to make one thing clear for you. Yuri will *NEVER* be the same again!

If, in the future, someone else decides to continue this story, they might try
that idea, but in my mind Yuri can never recover completely. If he could, that
would horribly cheapen Yuri's suffering, the terror of the curse, Alice's
death and Karin's love.

Still, there is something to be said for a quiet, peaceful life. Perhaps Yuri
will eventually have some new adventures with Roger Bacon.



.:KARIN'S ENDING:.

No matter how much she loved him, Karin knew she could never replace Alice in
Yuri's heart, and that caused her no small amount of pain. Ironically, that
single-minded devotion to a woman was part of what charmed her about him. I
think she, too, wanted to know what it was like to be loved like that.

In her Ending, Karin had just finished internalizing all the pain and heart-
ache she felt over Yuri when she met his father, Ben Hyuga. It's not portrayed
in the game, but as she spends time with Ben, she puts all of what is
technically her future (the events of 1915), into her past. To get on with
her life and discover her happiness, she chooses to live life as "Anne".

I don't think Karin's the type of person to fret much over why she was sent to
the past, nor talk much on who she was. She'd probably stay silent on the
whole affair. I don't think Ben would press her for answers she wouldn't
willingly give, either. I mean, he *is* Yuri's father. He'd be cool like
that.

However, I do want to clear one thing up. Karin was in no way "compromising"
with Ben. She didn't decide to stay with him only so she could see Yuri. She
honestly and truly fell in love with Ben, and as a result, Yuri was born. You
may have noticed it during Yuri's conversations with his dad, but Ben and Karin
were head over heels in love with each other.

In the end, I think Karin found her ultimate happiness.

Alice did understand him, though. She had from the beginning. She did once
say "Don't worry. I don't mind, no matter what the curse." Even if you forget
who you are, my love for you will still exist. No one can take that from me.
So I don't mind. Even if you choose death, it is the path you have chosen, and
I will abide by it. Besides, didn't I once choose death to protect the soul
which is you? ...that's what Alice was talking about.

To Yuri, his most precious things are the soul that Alice loved, and the heart
that loved her. Nothing else mattered. Protecting those things was everything
to him. It was his "happiness". If he were so weak-willed as to let some
weed's curse steal that away, he would have fallen for Karin's selfless
devotion and forgotten all about Alice long ago.

The time is 1913. Again. Perhaps for the third time? Or maybe the fourth.
Yuri is in China, waiting for That Train. It's the one place his subconscious
truly wished to be. This time around, maybe he really would create a future
he could share, living, with his beloved.
 
[quote name='cthcky33']i was wondering where nachzeher, the CAG shadow hearts guru was all this time :wink:[/quote]

Just lurking until someone mentions the Shadow Hearts series. That's my bat signal right there. :lol:
 
Something to add:

Traditionally, the SH games have always followed the bad ending of the previous game. SH followed the 'bad' ending of Koudelka and SH:C followed the 'bad' ending of SH. It's quite plausible that in SH3 (I hope they make this), they will follow SH:C's 'bad' ending - Yuri sacrificing his memories to continue living.

[quote name='Msia']Wow thanks for that post nachzeher, clears a lot of things up. Looking forward to SH 3. :D[/quote]

You and me both buddy. :)
 
i just dont know if they could make a good game with yuri as the main character in SH 3. it would be kind of lame if he didnt remember anything, i guess maybe it would be ok if he eventually remembered it all....

i think SH 3 will star kurando, that would make more sense, but i dont care as long as they make it.

now i need to track down a copy of koudelka and play it
 
I have a copy available, if you wanna trade for it. Give my tradelist link in my sig a clicky.

Or, we could play as Ben Hyuga and "Anne". That'll make for a great game. :)
 
o yea, i forgot about that. that could be a good one too. theres really a lot they could do with it, they could probably make a whole game just about joachim and keiths family
 
[quote name='cthcky33']o yea, i forgot about that. that could be a good one too. theres really a lot they could do with it, they could probably make a whole game just about joachim and keiths family[/quote]

They could make a spin off. But I hope they wouldn't go the Square way of whoring out everything FF VII. Plus now we have three Harmonixers to choose from, although Kurando's fusions would be very limiting. :?
 
It depends on what you mean on the first question. In the ending it shows her obviously "becoming" Anne. If you are saying that Karin was "Anne" during the storyline of SH Covenant, then I disagree and will post reasons why. I just don't feel like typing if unecessary.

Dave
 
[quote name='MightySlacker']It depends on what you mean on the first question. In the ending it shows her obviously "becoming" Anne. If you are saying that Karin was "Anne" during the storyline of SH Covenant, then I disagree and will post reasons why. I just don't feel like typing if unecessary.

Dave[/quote]

well it would make sense for her to know her own fate the entire time, since she goes back in time after it all happens. but who knows if she actually remembers anything after going back to whenever it was
 
either way that was the best game ending i have ever seen, because it actually wasnt exactly what you expected to see. the twist with karin being anne was delightful, but i guess you could kind of see it coming
 
[quote name='cthcky33']either way that was the best game ending i have ever seen, because it actually wasnt exactly what you expected to see. the twist with karin being anne was delightful, but i guess you could kind of see it coming[/quote]

Not me. When I first saw it, I was going "Whoa!?" But after thinking about it for awhile, it began to make sense.
 
[quote name='cthcky33']i think im gonna beat it again tomorow, and then start working on all the sidequests, there was a lot of stuff i didnt do[/quote]

Took me 70 hours for the game and sidequest the first time around. Enjoy your second playthrough and have fun tinkering around with the other characters and their abilities.
 
Alrighty, here's why I think Karin is not Anne during the game. One of the great things about the game is you get the Theater mode where you can reply a lot of the cutscenes.

1 - Go into Scene 146 in theater mode, where karin confesses her feelings for Yuri - that's just not something a mom says to her son :)

2 - Scene 108 where Karin is asking Yuri personal questions on the bench. Theres another scene where she asks questions about Ben that I can't find. There's absolutely NO REASON why she would ask questions she would alreay know the answer to if she was Yuris mom.

There's a lot of little things that make it seem ambiguous like the ship thing and offhand comments, but overall i think she is not Yuri's mom during the course of the game.

My interp of the ending - it's a simple case of alternate realities. Yuri says for them to wish for a place to go. Karin, knowing Yuri will always love Alice, chooses the next best thing to be close to Yuri and ends up in a reality where she is wih Ben and becomes Yuris mother. Yuri, knowing that the curse will soon rob him of his memories and soul, chooses death. He is then granted his one wish for his soul to return to the day the met (before the train). "If there really is a God, and he'd grant me just one wish, I'd go back to the day we met" - Yuri in scene 145

You can go to gamefaqs where they've been arguing this for months now, but be prepared for a bunch of irrelevant arguments and just stupidity.

They seen to get in a big argument over time paradoxes and miss the point entirely. Like at the end of Covenant, the reality Yuri goes to is obviously different than where karin goes to, so obviously the timelines aren't going to play out exactly like the events in the actual Shadow Hearts games.

Also, scene 141 still almost brings a tear. And scene 123 is fucking hysterical "That pillow - where can i get one?" " I will... STRIP THE FLESH FROM YOUR BONES!"

Great, now I want to play through the game again, and Xeno 2 is out in 3 days. Thanks a lot guys :)

Dave
 
Ugh.. too long for me to type to. But I'll try.

I'm not a believer in alternate realities, though I loved that show "Sliders". :) I believe that there are no branches in a timeline.

So, when Karin got that picture from Saki, she was thrown into a loop that will never end. It was predestined. When she asked Yuri about Alice on that bench, I think that was way before she met Saki right? So she didn't know that she was Yuri's mother and still had feelings for him.

In that confession, I think even though she was confused by/knew about that picture, she didn't want to believe it. It was only in that last moment when she was floating up that she realized what her place in history was. The photograph had been in her mind the whole time, that's why she instictively thought of that moment back in time to go back to.

Or another explanation is that she realized that her love for him was a maternal one at that last moment. I'll have to watch the confession again to make sure.

I don't think that Yuri actually goes back in time, he was already dead, his sould was probably thinking of a happy memory, the time that turned his life around. That's why there was that scene of him waiting for the train. That scene kinda puzzled me, I didn't know what to make of it. The only thing I believe is that, he died and that was just a part of his memory.

Anyway, that's my take on the ending. It was pretty complex, I had to sit through and rewatch several cut scenes to figure some stuff out. Luckily for the theatre. Good going Nautilus. :)
 
He he, isn't SH:C a great game. The ending(s) were a big confusing, but I believe that Karin did live as Anne, didn't know Yuri was her son, and Yuri did off himself to protect his soul.

In the end.....none of this matters because you bow before the mighty chicken curry! Fear the Man Festival!
 
Just know that we weren't arguing about it. :) Dave just prompted me to read his take and reply, so I did. The ending is pretty much open to interpretation.
 
Oh, I know. I just had to put a silly man-festival reference in there for shits and giggles cause only a few of us on the boards would get it.
 
Huge bump! Just beat the game! Wow great twist. So is there three endings? I notice there's a extra ending that I didn't unlock in the theater, next to the bad one. So what's the good ending in Koudelka and vice versa?
 
[quote name='blueweltall']Huge bump! Just beat the game! Wow great twist. So is there three endings? I notice there's a extra ending that I didn't unlock in the theater, next to the bad one. So what's the good ending in Koudelka and vice versa?[/QUOTE]

Just two endings. Karin's ending is true for both the good and bad ending. She ends up, you-know-where in both
 
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