Limited Run Games Thread - Nothing is Limited, We Make Everything Now!

[Squarehard]

Please move all off-topic and non-game related discussion (such as reselling, or he who shall not be named) to the other thread below,

LRG Off-Topic Discussion Thread

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LRG is on Amazon now!

LRG Trading Thread - Miss a release? Trade with someone who might need a release you have.


Limited Run Games Store Fronthttps://limitedrungames.com/videogamedeals

Limited Run Games at Best Buyhttps://shop-links.co/chgcByJn9wg

Holiday 2022 LRG Releases at Best Buyhttps://cag.vg/lrg

Props to Cheapy for keeping the OP updated. :3

 

[TuscaloosaJohnny]

Oh, let me try that too!

Yeah, all these people making bank.

Might as well just retire at this point.

I believe the question was will NT hold its current $100+ value? Neither of the games you showed ever sold for close to $100. He showed a picture of apples; you responded with a picture of oranges. Good work.

 

[SucceededMarker]

Yeah man those $100+ eBay prices for Shantae and Oddworld are going to drop any day now...

I never said Shantae or Oddworld were going to drop. Those games are waaaaaaaay more desirable than Night Trap will ever be.

 

[Oisterboy]

Everywhere I go people are so obsessed with eBay and what everyone else is doing with their games. I just wanna talk about upcoming stuff and collecting, and everyone is crazy talking about flipping. It's exhausting.


Unless you missed a game, shut the up. I buy my lrg, I wait for it, I open it and play it. I don't sit and watch other people sell them secondhand and get angry.

If you missed a game, I'm sorry. I hope it doesn't happen to me, or to you again. But just buy it from a flipper or don't. Making 9 pages arguing back and forth about this shit before talking about anything else is ridiculous. I feel like I'm near that orb of confusion on SpongeBob and everyone is caught in a loop of their own ignorance. I'm pretty sure these same tired old repeating arguments are exactly what hell would be like for me.

 

[chrislaustin]

Ahhhhh, so the thread is derailed again uh?

Man, I love this  ing place, never a dull moment.

For the guys here who are new, do you think your ideas and business 101 recommendations are anything new? Do you see how many pages deep this thread is? Any and everything mentioned by you guys over the last few days, has also be mentioned here by others probably over a hundred times.

There really are no new truths here, just the old ones repeated again, and again. I'm not gonna go in to the details of why most of these ideas are bad, or just not good for the LRG business model. If you want to spend time posting how you know best, and how LRG is dooming their business because they are printing a shit ton of a certain titles, and not enough of others, go for it.

Constructive criticism are always welcome here, as LRG has improved many parts of their business based on proper feedback(good & bad). Sadly, most of what is being mentioned and discussed here over the last few days, are against many of the doctrines LRG has in place, as well as just not being ideas that will grow or improve their business.

I keep seeing the same few titles mentioned again and again, but outside of those small few titles, most games are still close to there original value, so as others have stated, LRG is more often right, than they are wrong, and in this type of market, that's not easy to do. Are these guys perfect? No, far from it. But for the guys here who have ran nothing close to a business of any level of success, I would rather keep supporting a group of guys who saw a need, no one else did, and is doing their best to fill it, and in turn, has helped themselves, as well as putting others to work.

Talk is cheap, and you can tell any tree by the fruit it produces(or lack there of), and most of the comments here in regards to business are coming from rather bare trees, so I'll just leave my thoughts at that, and enjoy the show. Proceed!

 

[Vinny]

Wow. There sure are a lot of LRG zealots in here. Someone makes a suggestion and people come out of the woodwork to tell them their ideas are stupid. Guess everyone here is a small business major.

Because these topics have been discussed to death. There are 11K+ posts in this thread and a lot of people have been around for most of those pages... there are some zealots, yes, but a majority of the points that are being raised now were already raised a long ago and Doom clarified LRG's stance, and since then, we've been seeing people say those things over and over and over and over and over again.

You can criticize LRG"s business plan however you want but ultimately, none of the games would have gotten a physical run if it was for LRG in the first place-- not to mention other competing companies who are now doing the same.

One legitimate suggestion though: stop with the cover variants. That's killing your already limited quantities for people that want a CE but also want guaranteed both variants and have to get two standards also. All it does is needlessly complicate an already explosive environment. Curious how many people ordered 2 standard of WB and NT strictly because of cover variants. It also backs you into a corner of not being able to limit to 1 per person in the AM batch trying to accommodate those who want both sealed cover prints.

You're trying to please everyone. Chilling out on the cover variants would be a insignificant compromise to have less groups to please (eg the one of each people).

That's actually a really good point- never thought about that. I def bought 2x NTs b/c of the cover variants.

 

[addicted2games]

Doomstink must avoiding this thread lately like the plague for the most part. I missed out on a few titles I wanted. Its not the end of the world and I am even "addicted to games". LOL

 

[nintendospy]

Doomstink must avoiding this thread lately like the plague for the most part. I missed out on a few titles I wanted. Its not the end of the world and I am even "addicted to games". LOL

Can't blame him. I unsubscribed and stopped reading the thread after chrisz300zx was being discussed more often then LRG. And I come back to read it yesterday for Night Trap and it's still the same shit over and over.

 

[chrislaustin]

Can't blame him. I unsubscribed and stopped reading the thread after chrisz300zx was being discussed more often then LRG. And I come back to read it yesterday for Night Trap and it's still the same shit over and over.

Sadly, the only things here worth reading normally are the game release announcements, but otherwise it the same shit(just a different day).

 

[frolow]

Ahhhhh, so the thread is derailed again uh?

Man, I love this ing place, never a dull moment.

For the guys here who are new, do you think your ideas and business 101 recommendations are anything new? Do you see how many pages deep this thread is? Any and everything mentioned by you guys over the last few days, has also be mentioned here by others probably over a hundred times.

There really are no new truths here, just the old ones repeated again, and again. I'm not gonna go in to the details of why most of these ideas are bad, or just not good for the LRG business model. If you want to spend time posting how you know best, and how LRG is dooming their business because they are printing a shit ton of a certain titles, and not enough of others, go for it.

Constructive criticism are always welcome here, as LRG has improved many parts of their business based on proper feedback(good & bad). Sadly, most of what is being mentioned and discussed here over the last few days, are against many of the doctrines LRG has in place, as well as just not being ideas that will grow or improve their business.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen someone advocate for a reserve system to gauge interest in reprinting older releases in this thread. Maybe it has happened at one point, but I'm not going to read 470+ pages to find it. More importantly, I've yet to see an actual counterargument for why this type of system wouldn't work. A lot of people here are just making dismissive responses without actually countering any points. It really makes me think.

I keep seeing the same few titles mentioned again and again, but outside of those small few titles, most games are still close to there original value, so as others have stated, LRG is more often right, than they are wrong, and in this type of market, that's not easy to do. Are these guys perfect? No, far from it. But for the guys here who have ran nothing close to a business of any level of success, I would rather keep supporting a group of guys who saw a need, no one else did, and is doing their best to fill it, and in turn, has helped themselves, as well as putting others to work.

Talk is cheap, and you can tell any tree by the fruit it produces(or lack there of), and most of the comments here in regards to business are coming from rather bare trees, so I'll just leave my thoughts at that, and enjoy the show. Proceed!

It's not a select few titles, there's been plenty of titles that are going for double or more than original MSRP on eBay right now:

• Breach & Clear ($250~)
• Saturday Morning RPG ($100~)
• Futuridium EP Deluxe ($60~)
• Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty! ($150~)
• Shantae: Risky's Revenge - Director's Cut ($120~)
• Shantae and the Pirate's Curse ($110~)
• Xeodrifter ($55~)
• Söldner-X 2: Final Prototype ($60~)
• Firewatch ($70~)
• Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath HD ($70~)
• Dariusburst: Chronicle Saviours ($75~)
• Shadow Complex Remastered ($60~)
• Jotun: Valhalla Edition ($65~)
• Ocean Horn ($80~)
• Wonderboy ($70~)
• Night Trap ($100~)

And some newer releases that I imagine will drop, but who knows:

• NeuroVoider($60~)
• Plagueroad ($60~)
• The Bunker ($60~)

And that's not even getting into the Collectors Editions or Variants.

Are these type of games the majority of LRG's library? No. Do they make up a decent chunk? Yeah. These sort of releases are only going to continue to happen as LRG naps bigger and better games. Just this month they have 3 major games alone. And a lot of these games are selling out in minutes.

 

[bradbo]

What counter argument do you want? If they did this (Presell a rerun or big title) 1-2 times and everyone bought it, flooded the secondary market with it and devalued the brand it would be counter productive.

This is simple. People want a product that has value and holds it or increase and are not looking to buy just the physical game. If it was the actual content on the discs they were after we'd expect that night trap PC that's sitting there to get bought up. Other brands / sites ARE taking preorders for titles and the demand hasn't been higher- games aren't even always selling out.

LRG wouldn't need to exist if your model was the strategy.

 

[Stridix]

I have only ever tried to buy 3 LRG ever and I got all 3 (Shadow Complex, Dariusburst CE, and Night Trap CE).  I would say that for Night Trap it seems that a lot more people were trying to get this game because I feel that Night Trap last a little more than a minute which is shorter than usual even though more copies were released for it.

It's cool if you are collecting it...but if you want to play it try steam or some other source.  It's much easier and cheaper.

 

[frolow]

What counter argument do you want? If they did this (Presell a rerun or big title) 1-2 times and everyone bought it, flooded the secondary market with it and devalued the brand it would be counter productive.

This is simple. People want a product that has value and holds it or increase and are not looking to buy just the physical game. If it was the actual content on the discs they were after we'd expect that night trap PC that's sitting there to get bought up. Other brands / sites ARE taking preorders for titles and the demand hasn't been higher- games aren't even always selling out.

LRG wouldn't need to exist if your model was the strategy.

How would a reprint flood the secondary market? The people buying a reprint through a presale gauge system are likely only people who missed out on the original release and simply want to own the game. The reason their current games are flooding eBay because they sell out in minutes and people who missed out are buying them for jacked-up prices. Putting more copies of games specifically in the hands people who want to own them would not "devalue their brand". They're leaving money on the table by not catering to these people.

Your argument is also implying the vast majority of LRG's audience are only buying the games only because they "hold their value." That's not happening. A lot of people are buying their games exclusively for collection purposes, I'll say that, but not specifically because they "hold their value." What's the point in buying something specifically because it's high value and the not selling it? Those that do sell them are just scalpers, and that would mean the vast majority of LRG's audience are outright scalpers - which isn't the case.

 

[BrandonJF]

Ahhhhh, so the thread is derailed again uh?

Man, I love this ing place, never a dull moment.

For the guys here who are new, do you think your ideas and business 101 recommendations are anything new? Do you see how many pages deep this thread is? Any and everything mentioned by you guys over the last few days, has also be mentioned here by others probably over a hundred times.

There really are no new truths here, just the old ones repeated again, and again. I'm not gonna go in to the details of why most of these ideas are bad, or just not good for the LRG business model. If you want to spend time posting how you know best, and how LRG is dooming their business because they are printing a shit ton of a certain titles, and not enough of others, go for it.

This exact same thing used to happen in the bluray.com forums over Twilight Time who have a similar "limited run" business model, although that griping was also over price along with the quantities. A small number of titles would sell out - and outside of a couple of exceptions, not even that quickly - and the whining would begin. Twilight Time was totally transparent about their business model, how their deals with the studios worked.... never mattered. There were always some geniuses that knew better - the complaining would go on for years (mainly over "Fright Night"). It was amazing.

 

[frolow]

This exact same thing used to happen in the bluray.com forums over Twilight Time who have a similar "limited run" business model, although that griping was also over price along with the quantities. A small number of titles would sell out - and outside of a couple of exceptions, not even that quickly - and the whining would begin. Twilight Time was totally transparent about their business model, how their deals with the studios worked.... never mattered. There were always some geniuses that knew better - the complaining would go on for years (mainly over "Fright Night"). It was amazing.

I mean reissues seem to be working fine for the Datadisc guys, but what do I know. Guess I better start working on that Small Business Major before I can post here.

 

[bradbo]

How would a reprint flood the secondary market? The people buying a reprint through a presale gauge system are likely only people who missed out on the original release and simply want to own the game. The reason their current games are flooding eBay because they sell out in minutes and people who missed out are buying them. Putting more copies of games specifically in the hands people who want to own them would not "devalue their brand"

Your argument is also implying the vast majority of LRG's audience are only buying the games specifically because they "hold their value." That's not happening. A lot of people are buying their games exclusively for collection purposes, I'll say that, but not specifically because they "hold their value." What's the point in buying something specifically because it's high value and the not selling it? Those that do sell them are just scalpers, and that would mean the vast majority of LRG's audience are outright scalpers - which isn't the case.

Non-sequitor on the scalpers aside- call it thrill of the hunt or hoarding the psychology doesn't really matter because it happens- the buyers target what has value. Every game listed on eBay that does not sell is indicative of lack of demand just as the ones that do indicate it's there. Look at the number of listings versus sales. When markets are truly analyzed most outliers are dropped from data I.e the two highest and lowest values are dumped. With that info it looks very much like demand was very nearly met.

With that I'm bowing out- I'm only playing devil's advocate here and certainly don't want to be a defender of LRG.

 

[srocky26]

I'm surprised that there are still over 100 blu rays left. I thought for sure those would go fast.

 

[chimpmeister]

How would a reprint flood the secondary market? The people buying a reprint through a presale gauge system are likely only people who missed out on the original release and simply want to own the game. The reason their current games are flooding eBay because they sell out in minutes and people who missed out are buying them for jacked-up prices. Putting more copies of games specifically in the hands people who want to own them would not "devalue their brand". They're leaving money on the table by not catering to these people.

Your argument is also implying the vast majority of LRG's audience are only buying the games only because they "hold their value." That's not happening. A lot of people are buying their games exclusively for collection purposes, I'll say that, but not specifically because they "hold their value." What's the point in buying something specifically because it's high value and the not selling it? Those that do sell them are just scalpers, and that would mean the vast majority of LRG's audience are outright scalpers - which isn't the case.

They're never going to do reprints. It goes against their core philosophy, and would damage the limited release model that the company is built on. Just give that idea up, it isn't going to happen.

Now a legitimate gripe is the low quantities they have chosen for many games. Wonder Boy could easily have had another 2500+ copies added, and Night Trap could have been doubled. They're missing the sweet spot on quantities, leaving money on the table for both LRG and developers, and falling way under the demand level (thereby frustrating a lot of people). I suspect Ys and S&S will have similar issues.

 

[BrandonJF]

Non-sequitor on the scalpers aside- call it thrill of the hunt or hoarding the psychology doesn't really matter because it happens- the buyers target what has value. Every game listed on eBay that does not sell is indicative of lack of demand just as the ones that do indicate it's there. Look at the number of listings versus sales. When markets are truly analyzed most outliers are dropped from data I.e the two highest and lowest values are dumped. With that info it looks very much like demand was very nearly met.

With that I'm bowing out- I'm only playing devil's advocate here and certainly don't want to be a defender of LRG.

Who has time to "analyze" and actually look at "data" when people can just go with their gut and turn their opinion based on zero years running a business selling video games into fact?

I mean, there is actually a post not far above this one where someone is saying that re-printing games that sell out quickly would not de-value the Limited Run Games brand. Nope - selling a game with an advertised limited number available and then re-printing that same game based on pre-orders would not de-value the brand at all.... especially if your company was actually named "Limited Run Games".

 

[frolow]

Non-sequitor on the scalpers aside- call it thrill of the hunt or hoarding the psychology doesn't really matter because it happens- the buyers target what has value. Every game listed on eBay that does not sell is indicative of lack of demand just as the ones that do indicate it's there. Look at the number of listings versus sales. When markets are truly analyzed most outliers are dropped from data I.e the two highest and lowest values are dumped. With that info it looks very much like demand was very nearly met.

With that I'm bowing out- I'm only playing devil's advocate here and certainly don't want to be a defender of LRG.

You're right in saying the psychological aspect is a reason these games sell so fast, but LRG's business wouldn't tank if you removed that element. Lawbreakers is a good example here: That game took a day and a half to sellout. Early on people had to have realized that game was going to be a lower-tier own and not retain its value, but it still sold out. Why? Because of collectors and people who legitimately wanted to play the game. They certainly weren't buying it for its value.

I wouldn't call the games that are selling for double their MSRP on eBay pure outliers. They don't make up the majority of LRG's lineup (because most games LRG sells are smaller indie titles), but they make up a fair chunk. And that chunk is only going to keep growing as LRG keeps getting more prominent releases.

 

[frolow]

I mean, there is actually a post not far above this one where someone is saying that re-printing games that sell out quickly would not de-value the Limited Run Games brand. Nope - selling a game with an advertised limited number available and then re-printing that same game based on pre-orders would not de-value the brand at all.... especially if your company was actually named "Limited Run Games".

Selling and putting more copies of games specifically in the hands people who want to own them would not "devalue their brand". These aren't baseball cards that are numbered 1/350, these are games with thousands of units being produced. (CEs being an fair exception to this)

The point of LRG in the first place was to bring games that wouldn't have gotten physical releases into the retail realm. Not to be a secret club company that panders exclusively to resellers and people who only buy stuff because it's "rare" and "limited".

Who has time to "analyze" and actually look at "data" when people can just go with their gut and turn their opinion based on zero years running a business selling video games into fact?

Hey man I only just started on my Small Business Major, give me some time.

 

[BrandonJF]

You're right in saying the psychological aspect is a reason these games sell so fast, but LRG's business wouldn't tank if you removed that element. Lawbreakers is a good example here: That game took a day and a half to sellout. Early on people had to have realized that game was going to be a lower-tier own and not retain its value, but it still sold out. Why? Because of collectors and people who legitimately wanted to play the game. They certainly weren't buying it for its value.

Those people could still trust the print run listed on the site. What is being suggested is that goes away. What you need is an example of a game with no print run listed on the listing and see how many copies they sell. Would Lawbreakers have sold 5000 copies of the standard version if the people buying it didn't know there were only 5000 copies printed? No matter how long it took to sell, buyers still could trust there was a finite number.

I think those digital codes being sent out for Lawbreakers really sweetened that deal, too....

 

[chrislaustin]

Another thing not being mentioned by those who are in the "know", is that many of those so called high value titles, where not near that amount months after release. I personally sold my extra B&C and Saturday Morning RPG months after release for maybe $50(if that much).

So for a good long while, most of the titles on that list could be had for maybe double the cost, which is also only $10 more than most standard physical Vita releases. Not nearly enough for someone to complain about if they really wanted those titles.

I had a shit ton of RCR for the Vita that I couldn't give away after it was offered. I sat them in my pile of "to be sold" items, and forgot about them. A year later, I was able to sell all those copies for 3-4 times what I paid. But once again, for a good long time, those games where $30 and could have easily been bought cheap.

So as I originally stated, there is only a small number of titles that where worth a shit ton right at release, and several of those have just recently happened, so how could LRG have planned 6-12 months ago for this outcome? There have also been titles on the higher end, that have lasted near 4-5 days. And just like the fast sell out days, we get the doom and gloom crowd stating how no one wants those titles, and how LRG was crazy for printing so many.

At the end of the day, a title selling out in minutes doesn't hurt their business, and if anything, just gets more zealots to join the fun each new release week. On the other side of the coin, if they have a title that doesn't move, are they get stuck with, they are going to have severe issues really fast. So while many here may not like how they operate, there is zero chance of them going out of business by having these tiles go in seconds. Where if just one title does poorly, or doesn't move as planned, they could be closing up shop. So yeah, I know which option I would choose each day of the week(and twice on Sundays). LOL

 

[chrislaustin]

Hey man I only just started on my Small Business Major, give me some time.

Realize that while you are learning in books, there is also real world situations, that aren't taught, and that need to be taken in to account when running a successful business. If all that was required to succeed in business was getting an "A" on a piece of paper, almost everyone in the world would have a profitable business, and that is just not the case. This clip shows reality VS. fantasy, and while a fictional movie, it is 100% accurate in showing what happens in the real world, and what happens behind a desk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSSPVPB4zI

 

[frolow]

Another thing not being mentioned by those who are in the "know", is that many of those so called high value titles, where not near that amount months after release. I personally sold my extra B&C and Saturday Morning RPG months after release for maybe $50(if that much).

So for a good long while, most of the titles on that list could be had for maybe double the cost, which is also only $10 more than most standard physical Vita releases. Not nearly enough for someone to complain about if they really wanted those titles.

I had a shit ton of RCR for the Vita that I couldn't give away after it was offered. I sat them in my pile of "to be sold" items, and forgot about them. A year later, I was able to sell all those copies for 3-4 times what I paid. But once again, for a good long time, those games where $30 and could have easily been bought cheap.

Doesn't that justify reprinting even more? This shit is only going to become rarer and time moves on. The only people who are making money at that point are resellers, not LRG.

So as I originally stated, there is only a small number of titles that where worth a shit ton right at release, and several of those have just recently happened, so how could LRG have planned 6-12 months ago for this outcome? There have also been titles on the higher end, that have lasted near 4-5 days. And just like the fast sell out days, we get the doom and gloom crowd stating how no one wants those titles, and how LRG was crazy for printing so many.

At the end of the day, a title selling out in minutes doesn't hurt their business, and if anything, just gets more zealots to join the fun each new release week.

Titles selling out in minutes does hurt their business, it pisses off customers who missed out on the game they wanted to buy. Those people are likely to be less inclined to buy from LRG in the future.

On the other side of the coin, if they have a title that doesn't move, are they get stuck with, they are going to have severe issues really fast. So while many here may not like how they operate, there is zero chance of them going out of business by having these tiles so in seconds.

Where if just one title does poorly, or doesn't move as planned, they could be closing up shop. So yeah, I know which option I would choose each day of the week(and twice on Sundays). LOL

If 2 years into their existence LRG is still running off of the "one title 'failing' could bankrupt the company" then they have major management issues.

You also have to define failure. Here's a realistic scenario to ponder: A game sells through 70% of its print run when it launches, then takes a month or two to gradually sell through the last 30%. This is LRG's business model at its realistic worst in my mind. People would consider that a failure. But with all that being said, is it really a huge deal? The game still sells out, it just takes longer than usual. If the company can't survive this scenario, which I doubt, then they management issues.

 

[redman77]

Doesn't that justify reprinting even more? This shit is only going to become rarer and time moves on. The only people who are making money at that point are resellers, not LRG.

Titles selling out in minutes does hurt their business, it pisses off customers who missed out on the game they wanted to buy. Those people are likely to be less inclined to buy from LRG in the future.

If 2 years into their existence LRG is still running off of the "one title 'failing' could bankrupt the company" then they have major management issues.

You also have to define failure. Here's a realistic scenario to ponder: A game sells through 70% of its print run when it launches, then takes a month or two to gradually sell through the last 30%. This is LRG's business model at its realistic worst in my mind. People would consider that a failure. But with all that being said, is it really a huge deal? The game still sells out, it just takes longer than usual. If the company can't survive this scenario and would close up shop because of it, then they management issues.

Do yourself and others a favor and take the time to do a simple search on the various forums in which LRG post and read up on their mission that they have stated numerous times. Also, reprinting games would be a moronic thing to do given that the entire idea behind LRG is that their games are limited. You are failing to grasp some very simple concepts behind LRG and business in general.

 

[frolow]

Would Lawbreakers have sold 5000 copies of the standard version if the people buying it didn't know there were only 5000 copies printed?

In all likelihood. LRG panders collectors who want a "complete set", that's one of the reasons why the smaller games like Lawbreakers actually sellout. They don't pander to the "Ultra rare this is #34/200!!!" type of collector because they would sell less copies that way.

I'm also not saying they should stop telling people the print run sizes, that's stupid. What they should do are normal print runs, and if the game is popular enough (if necessary by gauging interest with a reserve system/other means) then do additional reprints months later.

 

[chrislaustin]

There are many businesses in this world where an owner isn't getting rich, but meeting payroll every week for the life of the business. Of course it's great to no longer have to work, and watch the funds roll in, and I'm sure that's most business owners end game if at all possible.

When LRG started, there where 2 guys. For a long time, I have no doubts one title could have caused them issues at that time. Now they have more revenue coming in, but they also have way more going out. Staff, storage space, insurance, taxes, health benefits, etc. So while one title may not sink the ship, it could still be a one title away from death, due to now needing to meet more needs at the basic cost levels.

Once a titles sits for months, what do you think that would do to the rabid buyers now buying to not miss out? It could dry up, as a title sitting for months, has no need for a consumer to buy it today, as it will be there months from now. That is what happens at normal retail, and in the business model, it is planned and accounted for.

 

[frolow]

Do yourself and others a favor and take the time to do a simple search on the various forums in which LRG post and read up on their mission that they have stated numerous times.

I've been following them since their first NeoGAF post, so I've probably been keeping track of them longer than you have frankly. Their mission statement is to bring digital games into the physical realm. The games being "limited" is a byproduct of the print runs having to be low in order to be profitable. I'm sure the LRG guys would love to have massive print runs of all their games, but that's not realistic unfortunately.

Also, reprinting games would be a moronic thing to do given that the entire idea behind LRG is that their games are limited. You are failing to grasp some very simple concepts behind LRG and business in general.

Putting more copies of games specifically in the hands people who want to own them would not "devalue their brand". People miss out on releases and still want to own the games, eBay clearly shows there is demand. Doing reprint runs would just be putting more money into LRG's pocket.

I don't know where this assumption that these games are limited just for the sake of it came from, but it's really retarded. This was never intended to be like ultra limited sports card type stuff.

 

[Jurai]

Doomstink must avoiding this thread lately like the plague for the most part. I missed out on a few titles I wanted. Its not the end of the world and I am even "addicted to games". LOL

The crap being thrown at them on social media is atrocious, I'd stady offline a couple days if I was them

 

[zlatour]

The crap being thrown at them on social media is atrocious, I'd stady offline a couple days if I was them

It's their own fault imho.

 

[Jurai]

It's their own fault imho.

Yeah selling out of something everyone knows had limited quantities definitely makes them worthy of personal attacks on Twitter....

I wish they'd retroactively award long time supporters with tickets for old purchases, that forty ticket reservation level is still too high

 

[kraftwerks]

I wish chrislaust-his log-in.

 

[frolow]

There are many businesses in this world where an owner isn't getting rich, but meeting payroll every week for the life of the business. Of course it's great to no longer have to work, and watch the funds roll in, and I'm sure that's most business owners end game if at all possible.

When LRG started, there where 2 guys. For a long time, I have no doubts one title could have caused them issues at that time. Now they have more revenue coming in, but they also have way more going out. Staff, storage space, insurance, taxes, health benefits, etc. So while one title may not sink the ship, it could still be a one title away from death, due to now needing to meet more needs at the basic cost levels.

Once a titles sits for months, what do you think that would do to the rabid buyers now buying to not miss out? It could dry up, as a title sitting for months, has no need for a consumer to buy it today, as it will be there months from now. That is what happens at normal retail, and in the business model, it is planned and accounted for.

Not going to speak out of my ass and make more assumptions, nobody here knows the intricate workings of their logistics. I'll just say I sincerely hope the company is healthy enough to survive a type of "bad" release like I outlined.

You are right that a title taking a month to sell out could cause a domino effect with the rabid buyers. I don't think that's it's completely a bad thing, so long as they stay in this middle-ground area where games sell out, but take awhile to do so. However, it's a slippery slope and issues arise when the titles stop selling out and it dries up.

This is not my problem though. My issue with LRG is that they've had a multitude of extreme cases on the opposite side of the spectrum, where the demand incredibly exceeds the supply and they haven't done much to combat this. I'll give LRG props of consistently hinting the mark for most of their smaller indie games, they should continue to operate as they do now in regards to them. But for these bigger titles, interest-gauged reprints would fix the issue completely.

 

[chrislaustin]

I've been following them since their first NeoGAF post, so I've probably been keeping track of them longer than you have frankly. Their mission statement is to bring digital games into the physical realm. The games being "limited" is a byproduct of the print runs having to be low in order to be profitable. I'm sure the LRG guys would love to have massive print runs of all their games, but that's not realistic unfortunately.

Putting more copies of games specifically in the hands people who want to own them would not "devalue their brand". People miss out on releases and still want to own the games, eBay clearly shows there is demand. Doing reprint runs would just be putting more money into LRG's pocket.

If this is what you came away with from reading all their post over at NeoGAF, I might suggest you stop your business class, as you just posted information that is completely wrong from what they have said, and what they are doing from a business standpoint.

Two of the games released so far are from them directly as the developers, so if they could sell 10,000 why wouldn't they? The games being limited is NOT a byproduct of low runs being profitable, it's the only way to move said inventory. If they made 5000 B&C and they sold a few thousand out the gate, and then the others sat, how long before they have to discount those to move them? They still have to pay Sony to produce those 5000 units before they have sold one copy, and where did that money come from, and what happens to the amount tied up in the remaining amount left sitting in storage? These are real world issues that would cause them problems, but from the outside looking in mentality(book smarts), you have all the answers.

They sold 10,00 Skull Girls with preorders, and if that could be done for every release, anyone wanting to earn a living would do it again and again. Sadly, preorders is another thing where the typical formula does not work here, and if you have truly been following these guys from the start, you would know why. So now I would say your post make more sense, as you just don't understand what your reading, as if you did, you wouldn't be asking questions that have already been asked and answered.

 

[YawnAmuroYawn]

Yeah selling out of something everyone knows had limited quantities definitely makes them worthy of personal attacks on Twitter....
I wish they'd retroactively award long time supporters with tickets for old purchases, that forty ticket reservation level is still too high

This is a good suggestion. I have been supporting LRG picking up every title except breach and clear. I plan to continue to buy every title as I am obsessive. However i am worried there is a title i dont get simply because of bots, scalpers, resellers and the related drama in here. If that happens thats going to be extremely disappointing. And im probably just going to be done with lrg for yhr most part if that were to occur. This is all becoming very similar to Nintendo's BS

 

[zlatour]

Yeah selling out of something everyone knows had limited quantities definitely makes them worthy of personal attacks on Twitter....

It's the way they're doing it that's pissing so many people off.

They're dangling a carrot in front of people and when they go to grab it LRG just hands 3 carrots to a scalper instead; the scalper then dangles the exact same carrot in front of the person for 3x-4x it's original cost.

I personally don't care but it just seems to me LRG wants to release something out of reach for them right now; they think in order to get to that level and be taken serious they need to sell 5k copies to 1700 people in 60 seconds instead of 5k copies to 5k people in 3 minutes.

All they're doing here is pissing off their own fan base, and consistently making scalpers and ebay a shit load of money. Don't even need to bring up the tickets for exclusive products that fans are missing out on as they're non-transferable.

 

[csbaker-az]

Non-sequitor on the scalpers aside- call it thrill of the hunt or hoarding the psychology doesn't really matter because it happens- the buyers target what has value. Every game listed on eBay that does not sell is indicative of lack of demand just as the ones that do indicate it's there. Look at the number of listings versus sales. When markets are truly analyzed most outliers are dropped from data I.e the two highest and lowest values are dumped. With that info it looks very much like demand was very nearly met.

With that I'm bowing out- I'm only playing devil's advocate here and certainly don't want to be a defender of LRG.

I buy for collecting, and it's as you say, I DO place more emphasis on prioritizing rarity or resell value.

But not because I care directly about that. It's because I need to prioritize earlier obtaining of the things I least want to be stuck paying more for later.

I wouldn't care for example if they reprinted B&C to aid those who are missing it and hadn't heard of LRG back then. Wouldn't bother me one bit.

You know what though? I'd be more miffed if, in order to compromise and be able to reprint without pissing off people that do care about exclusivity, they had to make it a variant. I'd be more annoyed at having to double dip and buy yet another cover variant than my first print dropping in value.

 

[frolow]

If this is what you came away with from reading all their post over at NeoGAF, I might suggest you stop your business class, as you just posted information that is completely wrong from what they have said, and what they are doing from a business standpoint.

Two of the games released so far are from them directly as the developers, so if they could sell 10,000 why wouldn't they? The games being limited is NOT a byproduct of low runs being profitable, it's the only way to move said inventory. If they made 5000 B&C and they sold a few thousand out the gate, and then the others sat, how long before they have to discount those to move them? They still have to pay Sony to produce those 5000 units before they have sold one copy, and where did that money come from, and what happens to the amount tied up in the remaining amount left sitting in storage? These are real world issues that would cause them problems, but from the outside looking in mentality(book smarts), you have all the answers.

That's exactly what I said though. The print runs are low so the inventory will actually move. If the inventories didn't move, the print runs would therefore not be profitable. I'm not sure how you misinterpreted what I said that badly.

They sold 10,00 Skull Girls with preorders, and if that could be done for every release, anyone wanting to earn a living would do it again and again. Sadly, preorders is another thing where the typical formula does not work here, and if you have truly been following these guys from the start, you would know why. So now I would say your post make more sense, as you just don't understand what your reading, as if you did, you wouldn't be asking questions that have already been asked and answered.

I'm not advocating for pre-orders, I'm advocating for reprints.

I think you're the one who doesn't understand what you're reading.

 

[chrislaustin]

This is a good suggestion. I have been supporting LRG picking up every title except breach and clear. I plan to continue to buy every title as I am obsessive. However i am worried there is a title i dont get simply because of bots, scalpers, resellers and the related drama in here. If that happens thats going to be extremely disappointing. And im probably just going to be done with lrg for yhr most part if that were to occur. This is all becoming very similar to Nintendo's BS

Yeah, I've been getting each Vita title so far(with just 2 recent PS4 titles), and if and when I may miss out, I'll consider Ebay, or I may just not get a title. The Vita is winding down, so unless they offer some super rare upcoming games, I'll doubt I'll have many issues. Ys is the only title to make me pause, but I'm pretty sure I won't have an issue.

It's funny you mention the "N" BS, as that is a company where 99% of the issues leveled hare at LRG, would be perfect examples for them. "N" is at standard retail, and should want to sell to the greatest amount of people possible. They also have a website that functions year round, 24 hours a day, so to take preorders and gauge demand, is something well within their wheelhouse(or if not, it should be), and they have relationships at retail, where they can do preorders as well. No matter what happens to a product or game title over time, they where paid from the start for it, and retailers use their own discretion in regards to discounting said items to make them move.

None of the issues LRG has, or any of the same ones "N" has. And most of the arguments here would 100% improve "N" retail situation, where almost none would help LRG.

 

[chrislaustin]

I'm not advocating for pre-orders, I'm advocating for reprints.

Reprinting titles that you have already said are not going to be reprinted makes them a liar, and that would also end their business rather quickly, so once again, if you have been reading their business model, you are asking for something that would also end their business, so what's the point?

 

[csbaker-az]

Realize that while you are learning in books, there is also real world situations, that aren't taught, and that need to be taken in to account when running a successful business. If all that was required to succeed in business was getting an "A" on a piece of paper, almost everyone in the world would have a profitable business, and that is just not the case. This clip shows reality VS. fantasy, and while a fictional movie, it is 100% accurate in showing what happens in the real world, and what happens behind a desk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSSPVPB4zI

I love physics. All through education even college every physics problem is "ignore wind resistance". Get into upper level engineering or real world and wind resistance is 99% of your problems lmao.

 

[bradbo]

I buy for collecting, and it's as you say, I DO place more emphasis on prioritizing rarity or resell value.

But not because I care directly about that. It's because I need to prioritize earlier obtaining of the things I least want to be stuck paying more for later.

I wouldn't care for example if they reprinted B&C to aid those who are missing it and hadn't heard of LRG back then. Wouldn't bother me one bit.

You know what though? I'd be more miffed if, in order to compromise and be able to reprint without pissing off people that do care about exclusivity, they had to make variant. I'd be more annoyed at having to double dip and buy yet another cover variant than my first print dropping in value.

If you knew they did reprints you may not have bought the game the first time. The psychology and rush of buying these games is a huge part of the appeal. Just like any other "hot" item the passion fades.


Not many people are after full sets of titles though.

 

[frolow]

Reprinting titles that you have already said are not going to be reprinted makes them a liar, and that would also end their business rather quickly, so once again, if you have been reading their business model, you are asking for something that would also end their business, so what's the point?

How would interest-gauged reprints bring doom to their business exactly?

 

[csbaker-az]

This is not my problem though. My issue with LRG is that they've had a multitude of extreme cases on the opposite side of the spectrum, where the demand incredibly exceeds the supply and they haven't done much to combat this. .

This is bullshit. A year ago games were 1500 quantities not 8000.

 

[chrislaustin]

I love physics. All through education even college every physics problem is "ignore wind resistance". Get into upper level engineering or real world and wind resistance is 99% of your problems lmao.

LOL, so true. My normal work background is in construction, and again and again, you had little mousey book guys from the head office who never lifted a hammer telling those in the know, how much and how fast work should be getting done. As their numbers on paper said "x" was possible, so it must be true. There is little to no idea of what it takes to actually make those numbers happen in reality. That is why the best people to learn anything from, are those with real life experience, and that is why I linked that clip, as it shows what is on paper VS. real life. Which are two entirely different things.

 

[csbaker-az]

If you knew they did reprints you may not have bought the game the first time. The psychology and rush of buying these games is a huge part of the appeal. Just like any other "hot" item the passion fades.


Not many people are after full sets of titles though.

For the record I know reprints is a dead horse. Im just joining in on the horse beating from a genuine collector perspective.

 

[frolow]

This is bullshit. A year ago games were 1500 quantities not 8000.

Doesn't matter when games are still selling out in literal minutes.

 

[the_vahngo]

Doesn't that justify reprinting even more? This shit is only going to become rarer and time moves on. The only people who are making money at that point are resellers, not LRG.

Titles selling out in minutes does hurt their business, it pisses off customers who missed out on the game they wanted to buy. Those people are likely to be less inclined to buy from LRG in the future.

This 'crowd' of pissed off people you're referring to are also resellers or as someone else mentioned, a patient reseller.

The sole purpose of collecting something is just a subtle way of saying they are going to resell it someday at 1000% markup.

The people that say "I want it just to play," are full of shit. That is not the only reason they want it, if it was they could easily buy the digital version a lot ing cheaper. They do not need a physical copy, unless of course they also want the option of selling something they know will increase in value.

Running reprints would be far more dangerous to their business than trying to please the pissed off crowd of "collectors."

 

[chrislaustin]

Doesn't matter when games are still selling out in literal minutes.

And there are just as many games, if not more lasting hours, and even days, so once again, what's your point?

You are only arguing one side of the coin, as lawbreakers just last week lasted days, so where is the problem with that title? Your arguing for the few exceptions, and not the majority of titles, which often last long enough for anyone to get a copy, and then they also remove the limits to help move things along.

So anyone could argue for or against anything mentioned here, but the reality is your issues are from the few titles that have gone quick, but aren't taking in to account the ones that lasted. You can't really fix the one issue, without causing problems with the other. Why is that so hard to see?

 

[bradbo]

one thing is for sure- some of these games are good trade bait but many of them are avoided like the plague. Actual gamers are seemingly torn on these. I hope I can trade my law breakers.