Tax refunds without taxes....

E

egofed

CAGiversary!
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Study-Verizon-Hasnt-Paid-a-Cent-in-Taxes-in-3-Years-116981

http://crooksandliars.com/kenneth-quinnell/verizon-paid-29-tax-rate-2008-201

http://blog.timesunion.com/occupyalbany/taxes-and-lobbying/642/

Finished the "We're Not Broke" documentary on Netflix, and, though I still disagree with the whole "it's not a spending problem" train of thought, it makes me sick to see such an abuse of power. Paying millions to lobby the gov't to write favorable tax codes ranks right up there with the abuse of welfare, disability, SNAP, etc that many individuals commit. And fuck the subsidies! PBS has a debt documentary on Netflix as well that of course blames Bush, and I can't believe he can call himself a conservative. How the hell did we let "Pay as you Go" policy expire? Anyway, how can anyone, other than those who benefit;), NOT be in favor of redoing the whole tax code? Over 7,000 pages of special interest and vote buying regs is crazy. "Simplify, simplify, simplify." Can any of our "experts";) comment on how feasible it would be to have a 25% corporate tax rate, but make ALL income derived in any way related with the US subject to it? Of course I think 25% is outrageous, but its better than 35%. Crooked politicians hold the most blame here, so ,before you go around thinking "ego has gone all PRO gov't and tax on us":lol:, realize that I appreciate that taxes are a necessary part of enjoying the life and liberties that we have here. I still have a problem with rates way over 10%, but the collection of all taxes should be a transparent and open process. How can we fix this mess now? Can any candidate who makes this his platform garner enough support and money to win? Shouldn't we be for reforming the code to eliminate loopholes and collect the taxes actually owed versus raising the rates? Raising the rates will just be like asking Peter to pay you $100 when he already has failed to pay you $50. I'm looking for personal tax reform also. A flat 10% with NO deductions on every type of income. No loopholes, but no criminal tax rates on dividends, capital gains, etc.
 
[quote name='egofed']Anyway, how can anyone, other than those who benefit;), NOT be in favor of redoing the whole tax code?[/QUOTE]

Even though I'm sure this is a rhetorical question...

Those who have the power to change the tax code are either those who benefit or BFFs with those who benefit.

There's no incentive for them to revamp the tax code because we keep voting them in and they keep getting the benefits from it.

The general population (the ones who vote these guys into office) are too busy being all "Rabble rabble evil corporations" or "Rabble rabble evil taxes" that they continue voting these same folks into power.

So when someone asks about holding corporations as accountable as politicians, only one of those two groups has the power to change the tax code.
 
[quote name='egofed']

realize that I appreciate that taxes are a necessary part of enjoying the life and liberties that we have here. I still have a problem with rates way over 10%, QUOTE]

I lol'd.
 
[quote name='egofed']Can any of our "experts";) comment on how feasible it would be to have a 25% corporate tax rate, but make ALL income derived in any way related with the US subject to it? Of course I think 25% is outrageous, but its better than 35%.[/QUOTE]
If I were King Speedracer, I'd eliminate all federal taxes and replace it with a simple wealth tax. You pay 1% (or something similar) of your total net worth. This takes debt into account so if you're trying to make it with a business or capital intensive activity you don't get smashed by taxes unless you have significant equity. It would hugely incentivize actually working (we want that, right?) by not taxing it as well as not punishing people who make their money from equity since all they'd have to clear is 1% to cover taxes (and even the sorriest ass 4 year CD can cover that right now). Oh, and it very strongly encourages capital to not sit on the sidelines or it will slowly erode.

It strongly encourages business investment, job creation, labor, and will literally save billions both in all the tax contortions people won't have to go through as well as all the lobbyists they won't be buying. Seems like a no brainer to me. Guess that's why we don't do it.

Who wouldn't prefer that to our system now of estates, income, dividend, earnings, capital gains, and interest taxes, all of which bend to the whim of the lobbyist with the most suitcases stuffed with cash?

Oh wait. The argument against it is that rich people will leave or hide assets. Yea, cause that's not happening already. Oh look it's Tuesday. Time for another leak on thousands of rich people hiding assets.
 
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I was reading something earlier, something that for whatever reason I never thought of. Why exactly do we have to do our taxes? The government already has our tax forms, they know all of this already, yet we have to sit and do our taxes every year as if we're telling them something they don't already know. Apparently it's due in large part to lobbying (big surprise there) from tax prep service providers like Intuit (TurboTax). In some other countries you basically get your tax info,listing any return or amount owed, you can confirm it yourself by doing the math if you want. It's that simple. There is literally no need for us to spend the time (and money ) doing our taxes every year. Even dear old Second Jesus himself Ronnie Reagen thought we shouldn't have to.
 
[quote name='Clak']I was reading something earlier, something that for whatever reason I never thought of. Why exactly do we have to do our taxes? The government already has our tax forms, they know all of this already, yet we have to sit and do our taxes every year as if we're telling them something they don't already know. Apparently it's due in large part to lobbying (big surprise there) from tax prep service providers like Intuit (TurboTax). In some other countries you basically get your tax info,listing any return or amount owed, you can confirm it yourself by doing the math if you want. It's that simple. There is literally no need for us to spend the time (and money ) doing our taxes every year. Even dear old Second Jesus himself Ronnie Reagen thought we shouldn't have to.[/QUOTE]
And have a massive expansion of gubment? Shirley, u gest.:lol:
 
Don't worry about expanding the government. They already do the work for you and will kindly let you know if you did it wrong. (Well, as long as you owe them)

I can't say for sure if they'll tell you that you overpaid.
 
[quote name='Ziv']Don't worry about expanding the government. They already do the work for you and will kindly let you know if you did it wrong. (Well, as long as you owe them)

I can't say for sure if they'll tell you that you overpaid.[/QUOTE]

I can because they do. There were a couple years that I overpaid and they sent a form saying that you have a credit and can use it on your next income tax filing.
 
[quote name='Clak']I was reading something earlier, something that for whatever reason I never thought of. Why exactly do we have to do our taxes? The government already has our tax forms, they know all of this already, yet we have to sit and do our taxes every year as if we're telling them something they don't already know. Apparently it's due in large part to lobbying (big surprise there) from tax prep service providers like Intuit (TurboTax). In some other countries you basically get your tax info,listing any return or amount owed, you can confirm it yourself by doing the math if you want. It's that simple. There is literally no need for us to spend the time (and money ) doing our taxes every year. Even dear old Second Jesus himself Ronnie Reagen thought we shouldn't have to.[/QUOTE]

Americans for Tax Reform also had a part in preventing the IRS from providing taxpayers this information.

There is a good cartoon in Bloomberg Businessweek that highlights all the terrible shit in our tax system, such as this.
 
It's funny that the citizens are just now figuring out that people are manipulating the tax system to trick the common folk when the entire design of the tax system is set up in such a way as to trick the common folks.

Face it - there's no reason you couldn't submit your information to the government once a year and they could send you a bill.

You'd know exactly how much you paid in taxes, you wouldn't be providing them with interest-free loans. It'd be open, honest and easy.

Instead, the government takes a portion out of your paycheck each week. It looks like a smaller amount, so it doesn't hurt as much. Instead of a bill at the end of the year, you get a refund! Awesome! It's like the government is paying YOU! How cool is that?

The tax system is, by design, meant to be misleading, confusing and to take advantage of folks too stupid to know better.

Seriously, ask the majority of you friends, family and co-workers how much they paid in taxes this year. I bet most of them would say something like "Oh, no, I got money back!"
 
Because most people wouldn't save throughout the year to pay their eventual tax bill. You work for a retailer, surely you know what the average American is like.

Though if you wanted to you could just not have any taxes withheld from your pay and wait til the end of the year to pay. Contractor workers often do this.
 
Send a bill. If they don't pay it, hold them accountable (fines, garnishment, jail, whatever).

Last time I checked, no, not just anyone could choose to not have taxes withheld (well, aside from the idea that they can choose their job and could, in theory, choose one where they could not have taxes withheld).
 
No not everyone, but some can and do from what I understand. I think you give the average person way too much credit, or you're a heartless bastard and would rather see them actually thrown in prison, as if we don't already have a problem with overcrowding in the prison system.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']It's funny that the citizens are just now figuring out that people are manipulating the tax system to trick the common folk when the entire design of the tax system is set up in such a way as to trick the common folks.

Face it - there's no reason you couldn't submit your information to the government once a year and they could send you a bill.

You'd know exactly how much you paid in taxes, you wouldn't be providing them with interest-free loans. It'd be open, honest and easy.

Instead, the government takes a portion out of your paycheck each week. It looks like a smaller amount, so it doesn't hurt as much. Instead of a bill at the end of the year, you get a refund! Awesome! It's like the government is paying YOU! How cool is that?

The tax system is, by design, meant to be misleading, confusing and to take advantage of folks too stupid to know better.

Seriously, ask the majority of you friends, family and co-workers how much they paid in taxes this year. I bet most of them would say something like "Oh, no, I got money back!"[/QUOTE]
All you have to do is "claim" a ton of exemptions and you'll pay virtually nothing in taxes the whole year and get a big fat bill at the end of the year. I feel like that's the same thing as what you're wanting here?
 
[quote name='Clak']No not everyone, but some can and do from what I understand. I think you give the average person way too much credit, or you're a heartless bastard and would rather see them actually thrown in prison, as if we don't already have a problem with overcrowding in the prison system.[/QUOTE]

This might honestly be the root of most of the differences we have on this forum. I give the average person a ton of, maybe undeserved, credit. I feel people would understand and appreciate a less complex and transparent tax system. They would embrace the opportunity to truly be in charge of their own finances and budget accordingly. Truthfully though, I am probably wrong. I also feel that most people are smart enough to know that it is a bad and selfish move to have kids while on gov't assistance, yet I see it everyday. From fatasses eating themselves to death, to drug users od'ing and drunk drivers killing innocent people, I guess that there is a large enough group of idiots damaging our society that maybe an all powerful gov't is the only way to keep everyone in check. It's very sad to see the world in this way, but, maybe, just maybe, it is the best way to go. But how do we keep the idiots and easily corrupted from rising to power? And just how much autonomy is too much? And, if you've proven to be able to actually HANDLE your freedom without screwing up, how do you escape the system?
 
[quote name='speedracer']All you have to do is "claim" a ton of exemptions and you'll pay virtually nothing in taxes the whole year and get a big fat bill at the end of the year. I feel like that's the same thing as what you're wanting here?[/QUOTE]

So, what you're saying is that if I manipulate my tax forms, I can do something that should be a fair and simple process to do without manipulation?

Sounds like a great system.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So, what you're saying is that if I manipulate my tax forms, I can do something that should be a fair and simple process to do without manipulation?

Sounds like a great system.[/QUOTE]
The whole point of exemption is that you are "exempting" that income from taxes.
exempting present participle of ex·empt
Verb
Free (a person or organization) from an obligation or liability imposed on others.
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It's your choice to exempt your income. I don't even see how it could be clearer. Do we need to fill our W-4s out Idiocracy style with a big red button instead of choosing a number? Is choosing a number a bridge too far?
 
Dude, aren't you supposed to be some kind of high-level accountant or something?

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar02.html#en_US_2012_publink1000220844

IRS is specific as to what qualifies as an exemption.

This is what you are supposed to claim on your W-4.

You can MANIPULATE your W-4 for more exemptions. However, this could end up backfiring on you...

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Withholding-Compliance-Questions-&-Answers

Q8: What should I do if an employee submits a valid Form W-4 that appears to be claiming an incorrect withholding amount?
A8: You should withhold federal income tax based on the allowances claimed on the Form W-4. But, you should advise the employee that the IRS may review withholding to ensure it is adequate, and that the IRS may direct you, as the employer, to withhold income tax for the employee at a certain rate if the review indicates the employee’s withholding is inadequate. Once this occurs the employee will not be allowed to decrease their withholding unless approved by the IRS.
Click to expand...

Q12: As an employee, what happens if the IRS determines that I do not have adequate withholding?
A12: The IRS may direct your employer to withhold federal income tax at an increased rate to ensure you have adequate withholding by issuing a lock-in letter. At that point, your employer must disregard any Form W-4 that decreases the amount of withholding. You will receive a copy of the lock-in letter. You will be given a period of time before the lock-in rate is put in effect to submit for approval to the IRS a new Form W-4 and a statement supporting the claims made on the Form W-4 that would decrease your federal income tax withholding. You should send the Form W-4 and statement directly to the address on the lock-in letter. Once a lock-in letter is issued, you will not be allowed to decrease your withholding unless approved by the IRS.
Click to expand...

What was all that talk about experts?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Dude, aren't you supposed to be some kind of high-level accountant or something?[/quote]
I'm a programmer with a business degree but thanks for paying attention.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar02.html#en_US_2012_publink1000220844

IRS is specific as to what qualifies as an exemption.

This is what you are supposed to claim on your W-4.

You can MANIPULATE your W-4 for more exemptions. However, this could end up backfiring on you...

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Withholding-Compliance-Questions-&-Answers
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The IRS is specific because they have to be because otherwise high dollar tax cheats would always claim zero and then if they had a huge year would take the money and run. In the real world (6 figure and below incomes), you basically have to owe a ton of money *AND* not pay it (or the full sum) for a couple of years to get a lock in letter.

Know anyone that's ever gotten a lock in letter? Neither does anyone else.
What was all that talk about experts?
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Sigh.
 
[quote name='speedracer']I'm a programmer with a business degree but thanks for paying attention. [/quote]

Sorry, I don't cyber-stalk and harass members of this forum based off their real-life details, so I honestly don't pay too much attention to them.

The IRS is specific because they have to be because otherwise high dollar tax cheats would always claim zero and then if they had a huge year would take the money and run. In the real world (6 figure and below incomes), you basically have to owe a ton of money *AND* not pay it (or the full sum) for a couple of years to get a lock in letter.

Know anyone that's ever gotten a lock in letter? Neither does anyone else.
Click to expand...

So, basically... Manipulate your W-4 and hope that the IRS doesn't care enough to follow through with what they're legally allowed to do.

I provided sources, direct from the IRS, with how you're supposed to fill out your W-4 and what could happen if you don't fill it out correctly. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there's actually some possibility for a penalty if it's determined you purposely filled out your W-4 incorrectly for the purpose of keeping more of your paycheck.

As for knowing someone who actually received a lock-in letter - yes. Due to PII, I can't really discuss any specifics about the situation though, so my anecdotal evidence won't carry any weight in this situation.
 
I tell you what. I'll email my father in law today and ask him. He's been a CPA out on his own for 30 years and worked for the big 5 before that. Maybe you're right and they're more aggressive now? Maybe I'm right and they do it just to catch the really big fish.

brb.

edit: He responded, will update as I get more. Just quick background, he's not a fan of Obama and also is a smartass, hence my snark about Obama and his snark about not doing this very long.

Me:
I was considering changing our exemptions in order to keep it out of Nobama's grubby hands (and to get interest on it) for as long as possible. Should we be worried about a lock in letter? Does the IRS actually care about this at all for people that make under 7 figures and pay their taxes on time and in full?

I'm just curious.

Thank you sir.
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Him:
Before I answer, please give me an explanation of what you are referring to as a "lock in letter".
I haven't been doing this tax work for very long and I haven't heard that term.

Secondly, can I assume that you are asking about avoiding an underpayment penalty?
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Me:
Regarding the lock in letter, I saw on the IRS website here: http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Employees/Understanding-your-2801C-Letter

And yes, my question boils down to whether there is an underpayment penalty, what triggers it, and how much it is. I'm just trying to understand the options.

Thank you sir. Quite prompt service. I will rate you accordingly on Yelp.
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Waiting on a response. I get the feeling I was right about the lock in letters being an exceedingly rare event. Since he only does 6 figures and above for personal income tax preparation, he would definitely know about it if it happened on anything like a regular (or even irregular) basis.

He's the bastard that did so well that he fires clients if they're a pain in the ass and only takes new clients as referrals after interviewing *them*. I've been threatening to put him on Yelp for a long time. That would be his worst nightmare, getting random people asking for his service.

edit2: The exciting conclusion!:
Him:
It's bogus. I've NEVER seen the IRS send this.

Bit of history...used to be that the IRS had employers send in any W-4 that claimed over 10 withholding allowances. This was under the guise that they would determine if they would allow you to continue to claim the number you showed. Soooo, we used to send those in..and you guessed it...they never said a word.

Shorter story...when I was at the Astros, J R Richards (remember the pitcher?) used to claim 50...because he didn't want to pay until 4/15 due date. We sent it in every paycheck, IRS Never Said a Damn Word.

They have changed now and they no longer want employers to send in any W-4 with over 10. So how, you might ask, would they know what you are claiming??

Commentary: I think this is used in cases of non-filers, fifth amendment filers, etc.

Now to the crux.

You need to have paid in 110% of your prior year tax liability in order to avoid an underpayment penalty. That is because you are over $150K in AGI. Underpayment penalty running at 3% currently. Soooo, even if you win the lottery, as long as you have paid in 110% of your prior year's tax liability...no penalty
as long as the rest is paid by 4/15.

Hope that helps...probably more than you wanted to know. If that doesn't answer your question, let me know.
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tldr: It's for suspected tax cheats and 5th amendment filers (lol). If you're worried about a penalty, you can pay in 10% extra and keep the entire next year's taxes until 4/15 and the IRS won't care as long as they don't suspect you of trying to rip them off.

tldr tldr: Pay the man and he don't give a shit.
 
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[quote name='UncleBob']So, basically... Manipulate your W-4 and hope that the IRS doesn't care enough to follow through with what they're legally allowed to do.[/QUOTE]

...

[quote name='UncleBob']Sounds like a great system.[/quote]

*edit*: Okay, so a less abrasive response - If the process of having no withholding is so simple and the IRS doesn't care, then why not just make it a simple, straightforward and honest box to check on your W-4: "I will take care of my tax bill at the end of the year - withhold $0."? Transparency in government and all that.

A second thing, if the lock-in letter is only for high-profile tax cheats, then why would someone pay $30 on a site like JustAnswer.com to ask what they should do about
the lock-in letter they received? Wouldn't most individuals who make enough money to even be in the circle of "high-profile tax cheats" most likely have an accountant that they'd ask this kind of question to instead of asking random strangers on the internet? (Of interest, you can find similar questions on Yahoo Answers as well, which doesn't even cost you $30 to ask....)
 
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[quote name='UncleBob']...



*edit*: Okay, so a less abrasive response - If the process of having no withholding is so simple and the IRS doesn't care, then why not just make it a simple, straightforward and honest box to check on your W-4: "I will take care of my tax bill at the end of the year - withhold $0."? Transparency in government and all that.

A second thing, if the lock-in letter is only for high-profile tax cheats, then why would someone pay $30 on a site like JustAnswer.com to ask what they should do about
the lock-in letter they received? Wouldn't most individuals who make enough money to even be in the circle of "high-profile tax cheats" most likely have an accountant that they'd ask this kind of question to instead of asking random strangers on the internet? (Of interest, you can find similar questions on Yahoo Answers as well, which doesn't even cost you $30 to ask....)[/QUOTE]
The tax code and its enforcement becomes this totally foreign thing to us mortals once you get into massive income. People that make extremely large amounts of money via investments and self-employment have to play by different rules than the rest of us. Not coincidentally, IRS actuaries have indicated that these are the types by far the most likely to cheat. If we want the biggest return on our IRS enforcement dollar, it's the obvious place to go.

It's not necessary to get into how byzantine the situation becomes for our purposes because it just flatly doesn't apply to us. If your AGI is < $150k, we can reasonably assume that the people exactly at one fitty are grossing $175-$200k. Using the lower number, we see[1] that this only affects people HIGHER than the top 5% of all earners in America. So right off the bat, we're talking about > 95% of all American earners are not in any way affected by this.

So for > 95% of us, it is a simple question of deductions. Now, could they put on the W-4 a check box? Sure. Prolly. Don't see why not. It would be easier. The problem is they would get their asses hauled into court over discrimination immediately. So instead they make it a question of enforcement. All rules are the same but we only have X resources. You're right, it's a very government way to answer a question but in reality the actual result is the same. And when we boil it all down, we're talking about a number in a box.

I just don't see that as an unreasonable obstacle.

It seems extremely likely that the person that posted that question either was a tax cheat in the past or is an extremely high income earner who is also a cheapass and doesn't want to use an accountant. That's not a company I would want to do business with. Being "rich" and having even half a brain means getting three things immediately: a doctor, a lawyer, and an accountant. Not getting those is a damned fool's way to save money.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_States
 
[quote name='speedracer']
I just don't see that as an unreasonable obstacle.
[/QUOTE]

I disagree.

You're right, in that the tax code is a wily and crazy system - for anyone at any income. I can't trust the way the system works because the system doesn't even understand how it works (Remember the whole Tim The Tax Cheat thing? Which was a "misunderstanding" on what taxes he should pay?). I'm not going to lie on my tax forms to make things work to my advantage. Which is what you're telling me I should do. Simply, that's how you get in trouble. If you're okay living your life under the mindset that lying to get ahead is okay, then good for you.

With that said, yes, if the IRS doesn't care, then they should simply make it an option so that I can be honest and upfront.
 
I can't help but wonder how many folks here are silently cheering on speedracer as he proves me wrong and gives me a complete beat down... by telling me that I should lie on my taxes.

It's like before, when a particular poster proudly proclaimed that he cheats on his taxes and that it is okay because, otherwise, he'd have to put effort into paying his taxes - and that's unacceptable to him.

Funny... those who support our current methods of taxation (and support expanding them) are the ones who support lying and cheating on your taxes to get ahead.
 
Oy gevalt with the kvetching.

You'll notice from the emails that I choose not to do that. I also choose not to take advantage of tax loopholes (such as rolling money into a Roth that I'm not supposed to be able to do because my AGI is too high) because I don't think it's the right thing to do even if the IRS doesn't care. The money isn't worth it. Of course, I have the luxury to have the ability to have it not be worth it but that's a different story.

When crucifying yourself, don't forget you'll need a buddy for that last nail.
 
My brother received some type of letter concerning his with holding status a couple of months ago. His company passed it along to him from the IRS. A few weeks later he was told it was a "mistake." I'm not sure if it was a "lock in" letter, but it was never fully explained to him. He makes just over 100K a year, so I'm not sure about the income limits that might trigger it. Anyway, I'm not sure how anybody who isn't a tax preparer or accountant could be satisfied with our current system. It seems like people don't realize how the system or interest actually works. I would love for a flat percentage on all "income" that was due at one time. Eliminate all deductions, loopholes, credits, etc. This "mail box in an empty office in Bermuda" offshore crap is infuriating as well. Verizon paid -.05% in taxes while making a billion in profits!
 
[quote name='UncleBob']I can't help but wonder how many folks here are silently cheering on speedracer as he proves me wrong and gives me a complete beat down... by telling me that I should lie on my taxes.
[/QUOTE]

I thought it was an interesting little back and forth and you both have good points.

He was right that the IRS doesn't really pay attention to it.

You were right in saying "then why is it so damn complicated".

In the end it doesn't need to be complicated. It most certainly needs to be cleaned up, but they are being so vindictive about "rich" people possibly paying any less that they would rather the rich people pay less anyway but in an over complicated way that noone can easily see.
 
[quote name='Knoell']

In the end it doesn't need to be complicated. It most certainly needs to be cleaned up, but they are being so vindictive about "rich" people possibly paying any less that they would rather the rich people pay less anyway but in an over complicated way that noone can easily see.[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY!!!:applause:
 
Maybe I am old fashioned but I find it odd to see someone +1 an ostensibly serious statement with no grounding in reality and nothing to back it up.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Maybe I am old fashioned but I find it odd to see someone +1 an ostensibly serious statement with no grounding in reality and nothing to back it up.[/QUOTE]

Im not sure what you disagree with.

The vindictive part? You are right, that part is just my opinion in addition to your bitter posts.

Or that rich people/companies manipulate the tax code as it is now to pay less?
 
[quote name='Knoell']Im not sure what you disagree with.

The vindictive part? You are right, that part is just my opinion in addition to your bitter posts.

Or that rich people/companies manipulate the tax code as it is now to pay less?[/QUOTE]

Don't mind him. He lives in his own bubble.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']You don't lie on your taxes, you just advise others to do it. Gotcha.[/QUOTE]
Not that you particularly care, but your taxes are not done on a W-4. Your entire premise is incorrect. Don't let that stop you from righteous indignation though.
 
Splitting hairs much?

You're right though - I don't much care. Taxes, tax forms, or life in general - I'm not going through life lying and cheating just to get my way. Mock that, if you want - just don't cry too loudly when someone lies and cheats and you end up on the short end of that stick.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Splitting hairs much?[/QUOTE]
Uh, no? You are not cheating the government out of a single dime on your W-4, no matter what you put. Period.

I know, a difficult concept when wildly reaching for anything in which to apply your white hot rage.
 
"Little white lies"...

Besides, if your withholding isn't correct, you're not giving the government money in advance that, if anything, they could draw interest on, n'est ce-pas?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']"Little white lies"...

Besides, if your withholding isn't correct, you're not giving the government money in advance that, if anything, they could draw interest on, n'est ce-pas?[/QUOTE]
edit: nevermind. I'm done trying.
 
You know what's sad? bob is basically prime management material. Doesn't listen to anyone but himself, doesn't understand a damn thing anyone says to him, perfect.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWVDdsEeMAM&feature=player_embedded

O'Donnell says Obama paid in the high 20's...I thought it was 18%? Bill also claims he paid the 39%, O'Donnell says he is wrong. Nominal rate versus effective rate. But is he comparing apples to oranges when he states Romney paid 14% and Obama paid in the high 20's? I'll see what i can find...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox..._low_most_economists_think_it_should_be_.html

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/charity-loophole-lowers-obamas-effective-tax-rate-184

Effective tax rate- Romney-14.1% Obama-18%, NOT in the high 20's as Lawrence claimed. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....is he misinformed or just a liar?
 
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[quote name='Clak']You know what's sad? bob is basically prime management material. Doesn't listen to anyone but himself, doesn't understand a damn thing anyone says to him, perfect.[/QUOTE]

I feel like every time you say something about someone, your actually describing yourself.
 
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