Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

[Erad30]

Yeap It's true. You have to have a stable internet connection and connect once every twenty four hours. I can see this only being a huge pain for me if the Microsoft servers go down, which I'm sure they will at one point.

Here's another thing-With a system like this MS is going to get absolutely hammered by hackers and at some point it will go down. We saw it happen with PSN already and what a debacle that was. It's just a matter of time and oh my god what a cluster that will be.

 

[Blaster man]

Erad30, what happens if YOU'RE offline for a week because YOU'RE on vacation. Is your "shared game library" still available for your "family"?

As long as you're consle is plugged into the wall you'll be fine. The 24 hour connect will be done automatically as the Xbone is "always on"

So if you leave your home for a week and don't take your Xbone, the console will authorize it every 24 hours as long as it is:

A.) Plugged into the wall for power

B.) Has a internet connection.

You don't need to turn on the Xbone once a day.

Still a shitty requirement

I don't know about you but when I go on an extended vacation I unplug all that shit. They use electricity even when off. In fact I unplug a lot of shit when I'm gone for an extended period.

Yeap It's true. You have to have a stable internet connection and connect once every twenty four hours. I can see this only being a huge pain for me if the Microsoft servers go down, which I'm sure they will at one point.

Here's another thing-With a system like this MS is going to get absolutely hammered by hackers and at some point it will go down. We saw it happen with PSN already and what a debacle that was. It's just a matter of time and oh my god what a cluster that will be.

I wouldn't be surprised if it happens in the first year.

 

[Jimmienoman]

Yeap It's true. You have to have a stable internet connection and connect once every twenty four hours. I can see this only being a huge pain for me if the Microsoft servers go down, which I'm sure they will at one point.

Here's another thing-With a system like this MS is going to get absolutely hammered by hackers and at some point it will go down. We saw it happen with PSN already and what a debacle that was. It's just a matter of time and oh my god what a cluster that will be.

Don't forget presumably the same hackers tried both XBL and PSN around the same time.

M$ had a 6-8 hour fully down time and an extra 3-4 hour bringing back up time (service in and out).

PS had a month of downtime.

Yes it can be debated that the hackers tried both and found the flaw in PSN first so they have up on XBL quickly, but still that's a major difference.

 

[logicmeme]

Did you guys see this yet: http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/06/how-game-licensing-works-on-the-xbox-one/

I'm pretty sure that violates the first sale doctrine. MS is really screwing themselves on the XBO. I won't be buying one for this reason and my concern about privacy intrusion (see the news today about government snooping on our online data). Hopefully Sony is smart with the PS4 and rails against MS at E3, or I may be stuck with my old systems and PC gaming for the next 10 years!

 

[dmaul1114]

Yeap It's true. You have to have a stable internet connection and connect once every twenty four hours. I can see this only being a huge pain for me if the Microsoft servers go down, which I'm sure they will at one point.

Here's another thing-With a system like this MS is going to get absolutely hammered by hackers and at some point it will go down. We saw it happen with PSN already and what a debacle that was. It's just a matter of time and oh my god what a cluster that will be.

That is as realistic concern. Or the servers just going down on their own as Live does go down sometimes.

If they're smart they'll build the check system so that if it can access the internet but not reach the service, it doesn't disable the game but just keeps trying every so often until it gets connected.

I doubt they'll do that, but seems that would be a reasonable thing to do--if it can access the internet, but not the server, that should indicated that the servers down and the user shouldn't be penalized. But again, with their "the customer's always wrong" approach I doubt they'll do anything that reasonable. And I suppose it would probably make it easier for people to exploit and get around the checks somehow.

 

[Spokker]

According to Adam Orth I should just move....

He was defending his company's policies, which we know now to be true, and they still fired him, haha.

 

[dmaul1114]

Did you guys see this yet: http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/06/how-game-licensing-works-on-the-xbox-one/

I'm pretty sure that violates the first sale doctrine. MS is really screwing themselves on the XBO. I won't be buying one for this reason and my concern about privacy intrusion (see the news today about government snooping on our online data). Hopefully Sony is smart with the PS4 and rails against MS at E3, or I may be stuck with my old systems and PC gaming for the next 10 years!

Nope. First sale doctrine hasn't been applied to digital goods the same way it has physical ones.

Courts have ruled that DRM is fine, as with digital goods the companies are selling a license to access the content rather than a copy of the content.

So it's fine to have DRM on a Kindle e-book that keeps you from selling it, where as publishers obviously can't legally stop someone from selling a paper book after they're done with it. Same with DRM on digital movies, computer software and music back before the labels voluntarily got rid of DRM. Easier with music since they have alternate revenue streams like radio, internet radio/streaming, touring, merchandise etc. that other media like games really don't have.

Not saying I like it, but that's just the way it is legally. And unlikely that DRM on console games will get courts to change their stance when they haven't on e-books, software etc.

 

[crunchewy]

Harmonix is developing that game, so I have faith it will be good/fun.

 

[webkatt]

I've been readin this thread off and on for a while. I'm so excited to hear TimboSliceGB's response to this!!!

 

[Erad30]

Forget Timbo, I want to see Major Nelson defend this with a straight face. He was legitimate at some point right?

 

[webkatt]

Harmonix is developing that game, so I have faith it will be good/fun.

Its a Kinect game based on Fantasia

http://mashable.com/2013/06/04/fantasia-harmonix-disney/

Whop-dee-ing-doo-doo!

Look at the damned trailer

 

[RedvsBlue]

Forget Timbo, I want to see Major Nelson defend this with a straight face. He was legitimate at some point right?

I dunno about that, guy's always been a poor excuse of a Microsoft talking head. It'll be more amusing to see someone like Geoff Keighley who is obviously in Microsoft's pocket but still "independent" try to explain this away.

I'm baffled as to Microsoft's strategy at this point, if they even have one anymore other than, "we'll just do whatever we want, they'll love us."

 

[logicmeme]

Did you guys see this yet: http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/06/how-game-licensing-works-on-the-xbox-one/

I'm pretty sure that violates the first sale doctrine. MS is really screwing themselves on the XBO. I won't be buying one for this reason and my concern about privacy intrusion (see the news today about government snooping on our online data). Hopefully Sony is smart with the PS4 and rails against MS at E3, or I may be stuck with my old systems and PC gaming for the next 10 years!

Nope. First sale doctrine hasn't been applied to digital goods the same way it has physical ones.

Courts have ruled that DRM is fine, as with digital goods the companies are selling a license to access the content rather than a copy of the content.

So it's fine to have DRM on a Kindle e-book that keeps you from selling it, where as publishers obviously can't legally stop someone from selling a paper book after they're done with it. Same with DRM on digital movies, computer software and music back before the labels voluntarily got rid of DRM. Easier with music since they have alternate revenue streams like radio, internet radio/streaming, touring, merchandise etc. that other media like games really don't have.

Not saying I like it, but that's just the way it is legally. And unlikely that DRM on console games will get courts to change their stance when they haven't on e-books, software etc.

I don't think the courts have fully worked through how the first sale doctrine applies or should apply to digital goods. However, MS policy likely violates first sale doctrine in so far if you purchase a physical disc you are no longer able to resell it to a private party. Now I'm sure a team of lawyers has concocted some legal BS in the EULA that outlines how you are leasing a digital copy through physical media or some nonsense, but that doesn't mean it will be found legal if challeneged. Unfortunately by the time lawsuits happen and work their way through the courts consumers have already been screwed. Regardless, not a good business move for MS to disregard its established consumer base in the hopes of picking up to new, naive consumers. I will vote with my wallet and I know many others will as well!

 

[dmaul1114]

I don't think the courts have fully worked through how the first sale doctrine applies or should apply to digital goods. However, MS policy likely violates first sale doctrine in so far if you purchase a physical disc you are no longer able to resell it to a private party. Now I'm sure a team of lawyers has concocted some legal BS in the EULA that outlines how you are leasing a digital copy through physical media or some nonsense, but that doesn't mean it will be found legal if challeneged. Unfortunately by the time lawsuits happen and work their way through the courts consumers have already been screwed. Regardless, not a good business move for MS to disregard its established consumer base in the hopes of picking up to new, naive consumers. I will vote with my wallet and I know many others will as well!

They definitely haven't worked it out yet in the US. There was a fairly recent ruling in the European Union that changed their policy and required digital licenses to be able to be resold--not sure if it's been implemented in practice there yet. But hopefully something similar happens eventually in our court system.

The disc thing, however, doesn't matter at all in our current laws. It's not different than buying MS Office, Windows 8 or any other computer software. It's just an install disc (in place of a download for people who don't have fast enough internet) that is still just a license to install it on X number of machines and it can't be sold once installed etc.

 

[crunchewy]

I know it's a Kinect game. So is Dance Central. DC is great. I will definitely give the game a chance.

 

[spydey]

Not being able to rent games is a huge deal breaker for me.  I hope the PS4 will still allow it.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

im kind of shocked you can have up to 10 people use your games so pretty much you can buy a game and ten friends don't have to pay squat for it how will that help publishers

with them leaving selling games up to publishers i pretty much tells me ps4 will have the same thing renting videos games is thing of the past sadly

 

[chatgirl4]

Today is truly a sad day for gamers and a win/win for both Microsoft and the Developers/Publishers. Not only does the system need to check to see if the game is legit, but you also helped kill Game Fly, Amazon, EBAY, Craigslist, Public Yard Sales Best Buy, Target, Walmart, or even selling/loaning to a relative/brother/sister/friend/total stranger. Congrats MS, you single handily destroyed your console before it even launched, pretty much handing Sony an easy victory. I will sit back & enjoy my Wii U, PC, PlayStation 4 and Playstation 3/Xbox 360 and other consoles, I don't need your "system".  

 

[TimboSliceGB]

I've been readin this thread off and on for a while. I'm so excited to hear TimboSliceGB's response to this!!!

in my mind it's less then i was scared of. the connect every 24 hours if you don't can't play your games is kind of complete horse poop but the other stuff is not bad at all it's good thye are leaving selling games up to publishers and having ten people in your "family" can play every game you buy is pretty cool but makes no sense.

 

[crunchewy]

I'm sure that is not simultaneous use of the game. Presumably only one person can play at a time.

 

[Donut2922]

As CAG I am really pissed and disappointed in the news.  Screw MS.  I'm sure Sony will do this to us too.  What's the difference?  I can just get a Steambox instead anyways. 

I'll just keep my Xbox/PS3 and if I want to upgrade Steam will be the better choice. 

 

[TimboSliceGB]

Today is truly a sad day for gamers and a win/win for both Microsoft and the Developers/Publishers. Not only does the system need to check to see if the game is legit, but you also helped kill Game Fly, Amazon, EBAY, Craigslist, Public Yard Sales Best Buy, Target, Walmart, or even selling/loaning to a relative/brother/sister/friend/total stranger. Congrats MS, you single handily destroyed your console before it even launched, pretty much handing Sony an easy victory. I will sit back & enjoy my Wii U, PC, PlayStation 4 and Playstation 3/Xbox 360 and other consoles, I don't need your "system".

until ps4 has the same kind of used game thing on thier system lol i bet any money ps4 will have the same kind of used game policy with leaving it up to publishers and some kind of game activation.

I'm sure that is not simultaneous use of the game. Presumably only one person can play at a time.

in article it can say anyone on your family list can play the game same time as you seeing it's saved on cloud

 

[Monsta Mack]

Today is truly a sad day for gamers and a win/win for both Microsoft and the Developers/Publishers. Not only does the system need to check to see if the game is legit, but you also helped kill Game Fly, Amazon, EBAY, Craigslist, Public Yard Sales Best Buy, Target, Walmart, or even selling/loaning to a relative/brother/sister/friend/total stranger. Congrats MS, you single handily destroyed your console before it even launched, pretty much handing Sony an easy victory. I will sit back & enjoy my Wii U, PC, PlayStation 4 and Playstation 3/Xbox 360 and other consoles, I don't need your "system".

Why is everyone assuming Sony won't take a similiar route with third parties? Is everyone expecting EA, Ubisoft and other publishers to sit on their hands while MS sticks by them?

Wii U is already out and can't go back so Nintendo doesn't count. They can still do this next gen.

Also, whens the last time we could sell used games on the PC market? You don't need to with Steam sales...

I'm not going to lie: This shit looks grim for MS when it comes to the internet reaction. But I'm sure MS has their reasons for doing this, and they truly believe it will effect their bottom line in a positive way.

I recall when the original XBox came out and XBox Live was a pay service.... lol. Never thought I'd see the day with a worst reaction then that.

 

[io]

So it looks like there will be a way to trade stuff in to GS (and other "participating retailers" which seems like a bad thing for independent shops).  That is good, at least.  But my primary method of justifying brand new $60 game purchases was the ability to sell them for $40+ within the first few weeks.  It looks like that is just not going to be able to happen?  So they preserve GS's business in some way, but hose the individual consumer? And oh, yeah, by the way GS and all other game trade-in places will be able to offer you FAR less than they even do now since the game has no resale potential otherwise.  eBay/Amazon used sales prices have always been there to put a little pressure, at least, on places like Gamestop to provide decent trade-in values.  That will be out the window, apparently.

Now, don't get me wrong, I certainly like parts of the system.  It is nice to be able to log in to any system (esp. if you have more than one ONE in your house as I do now with the 360) and access your library.  And I realize how it is necessary, in that case, to tie a license to your profile.

What they should have done at least as a transition stage for this next generation is to allow you to deactivate that license on your account at any time.  Then you could trade/sell/lend the game like normal, allowing the new user to "reinstall" the now vacated license on their account.  There would inevitably be some hiccups with that (a buyer claiming the license wasn't valid and filing a dispute) but it is better than nothing.  And they could still allow Gamestop and other trade-in places to force the deactivation (as that would be required for the viability of the trade-in program).

But, man, I just don't know.  I am intensely curious to see what the PS4 does.  But the fact that it does not require even an intermittent connection makes me think they won't be quite as restrictive - or perhaps only if you keep your PS4 offline permanently and that would suck just as much...

And yeah - as for the 10 members of the "family" being able to access games, that is great for someone with an actual family but I don't think it will be as great for "gamesharing" as some people think.  I think they have said only one person at a time (from different boxes) can access any particular game.  This is actually a step backwards for something like a 360 arcade title.  Currently, I can buy an arcade game on the 360 my son uses, then also install it on another 360.  More importantly, both of us can then log in and play that game, together, on the different systems.  We've done that very thing with Minecraft in fact.  Since there is no difference between "arcade" and disc-based games on the One, that feature is now defunct and a big minus to me.  Hopefully the PS4 will still allow multiple players off the same game license as they do on the PS3 now (which is even better than with the 360 since I don't have to worry about which machine I first bought it on).

 

[TimboSliceGB]

if x1 and ps4 both have this no rent games and lend games at start i might wait to buy a new system what is the point in buying one when it seems like all the big 3rd party games are coming out for both next gen and current gen. if ps4 is only 350 bucks at launch i might buy it first to see how this x1 stuff works out and if it has any system problems like 360 did at launch.

 

[Jodou]

IT'S OFFICIAL

Xbox One Needs To Connect To The Internet Every 24 Hours For Gaming

"With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies."

Ouch, that's really harsh considering most people I know would turn to consoles for gaming if their net goes out for a couple hours. Under that draconian system, they'd be proper ed.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

they did not say how games will be activated i wonder if gamefly will get a deal done with them so they can still rent games.

 

[chatgirl4]

Because so far Sony has not even announced anything regarding the blockage of used/borrowed/rented games. And if they walk down that same road, then   them too, I will not buy any gaming console(s) that infringe on my rights to sell/trade/loan out my LEGALLY PURCHASED merchandise. 

 

[TimboSliceGB]

i really don't think this is bad as people were thinking some of it is pretty cool like hte 10 "family list" only thing im not a fan of is the after 24 hours wiht no internet can't even play games online that is kind of garbage if you ask me it's not even that way on pc.

 

[Donut2922]

Based on the trailers on the next gen games, the differences don't really blow me away yet.  I think dealing with all this DRM crap isn't worth the upgrade over our current systems.  The best deals will probably stay with the current gen so I'm content with Xbox 360 and PS3 because these systems will obviously last for a good while.  It'll be interesting to see how people vote with their wallets. 

Although I'm really pissed, the writing was on the wall so I'm not as shocked as I thought I was going to be.  Doesn't change the fact that I'm still disappointed though.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

Today is truly a sad day for gamers and a win/win for both Microsoft and the Developers/Publishers. Not only does the system need to check to see if the game is legit, but you also helped kill Game Fly, Amazon, EBAY, Craigslist, Public Yard Sales Best Buy, Target, Walmart, or even selling/loaning to a relative/brother/sister/friend/total stranger. Congrats MS, you single handily destroyed your console before it even launched, pretty much handing Sony an easy victory. I will sit back & enjoy my Wii U, PC, PlayStation 4 and Playstation 3/Xbox 360 and other consoles, I don't need your "system".

Why is everyone assuming Sony won't take a similiar route with third parties? Is everyone expecting EA, Ubisoft and other publishers to sit on their hands while MS sticks by them?

Wii U is already out and can't go back so Nintendo doesn't count. They can still do this next gen.

Also, whens the last time we could sell used games on the PC market? You don't need to with Steam sales...

I'm not going to lie: This shit looks grim for MS when it comes to the internet reaction. But I'm sure MS has their reasons for doing this, and they truly believe it will effect their bottom line in a positive way.

I recall when the original XBox came out and XBox Live was a pay service.... lol. Never thought I'd see the day with a worst reaction then that.

Today is truly a sad day for gamers and a win/win for both Microsoft and the Developers/Publishers. Not only does the system need to check to see if the game is legit, but you also helped kill Game Fly, Amazon, EBAY, Craigslist, Public Yard Sales Best Buy, Target, Walmart, or even selling/loaning to a relative/brother/sister/friend/total stranger. Congrats MS, you single handily destroyed your console before it even launched, pretty much handing Sony an easy victory. I will sit back & enjoy my Wii U, PC, PlayStation 4 and Playstation 3/Xbox 360 and other consoles, I don't need your "system".

Why is everyone assuming Sony won't take a similiar route with third parties? Is everyone expecting EA, Ubisoft and other publishers to sit on their hands while MS sticks by them?

Wii U is already out and can't go back so Nintendo doesn't count. They can still do this next gen.

Also, whens the last time we could sell used games on the PC market? You don't need to with Steam sales...

I'm not going to lie: This shit looks grim for MS when it comes to the internet reaction. But I'm sure MS has their reasons for doing this, and they truly believe it will effect their bottom line in a positive way.

I recall when the original XBox came out and XBox Live was a pay service.... lol. Never thought I'd see the day with a worst reaction then that.

Because so far Sony has not even announced anything regarding the blockage of used/borrowed/rented games. And if they walk down that same road, then them too, I will not buy any gaming console(s) that infringe on my rights to sell/trade/loan out my LEGALLY PURCHASED merchandise.

i read when EA stop online pass was the time i knew ms and sony was going to do something like this and i think they will do the same as ms leave the used game sales and what not to publishers. now the question is with leaving it up to publishers it's possible some publishers might let people seel their games no every one and not just stores with deals with them.

Based on the trailers on the next gen games, the differences don't really blow me away yet. I think dealing with all this DRM crap isn't worth the upgrade over our current systems. The best deals will probably stay with the current gen so I'm content with Xbox 360 and PS3 because these systems will obviously last for a good while. It'll be interesting to see how people vote with their wallets.

Although I'm really pissed, the writing was on the wall so I'm not as shocked as I thought I was going to be. Doesn't change the fact that I'm still disappointed though.

seeing most 3rd party games are going to be on this gen and next for i would say first year or so other then 1st party games you will not see much diff in 3rd party games on x1 and ps4. i don't think this turned out bad like people were thinking yes it's dumb you have to check in every 24 but it's nice you can share your games with up to 10 people and ms is leaving treading/resell up to publishers if they want thier games in the only sell to certain store things or not.

 

[jkam]

Honestly if anything the whole thing doesn't make sense. They should have just gone digital only. The discs are basically useless at this point. I'm not sure who this convoluted strategy is helping at this point. PS4 might do it as well though but at least they have PLUS, that already felt like a better solution to ease us into digital than Microsoft has offered. I'm probably going to go one console next gen, one game at a time, no more backlog with this.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

the question i have is when they say play on cloud does that mean the game is streaming which we seen from onlive most internets can't handle that or do you need to download it and if someone has slow dsl could take hours if not days to download a full game.

 

[spydey]

Remember a few years ago when live was down for days.  I guess no one could play any games if this happens again.

 

[phantomfriar2002]

So it looks like there will be a way to trade stuff in to GS (and other "participating retailers" which seems like a bad thing for independent shops). That is good, at least. But my primary method of justifying brand new $60 game purchases was the ability to sell them for $40+ within the first few weeks. It looks like that is just not going to be able to happen? So they preserve GS's business in some way, but hose the individual consumer? And oh, yeah, by the way GS and all other game trade-in places will be able to offer you FAR less than they even do now since the game has no resale potential otherwise.

And there will be NO COMPETITION for them. There will be no incentive for them to lower prices, other than they feel it's just time to do so.

This post from the neogaf board sums it up...

 

[Corvin]

The ultimate problem with this system is that it relies on Live being 100% flawless and unhackable.  As someone who got a 360 at launch, lived through multiple Live outtages(5 RROD) over the years, and knows a couple people that got the Fifa hack, the X1 will be no different.  Live will go down and millions of people will own expensive bricks.    What happens if a hacker manages to transfer the license?  Your disc is now 100% landfill material.

The same holds true for Kinect.  Since it's required, what happens if a child knocks it off the shelf and it dies?  Dog chews through a cord?  Dead console?

 

[TimboSliceGB]

the thing is they said they will leave trading in games up to publishers what happens if 3rd party publisher puts no limits on the trade in little trade in stores are not out of luck. i could very well see most publishers turn down the option for that.

 

[dmaul1114]

Not being able to rent games is a huge deal breaker for me. I hope the PS4 will still allow it.

They said no loaning or renting at launch, but they're talking to their partners about options.

I'm guessing there will eventually be sometime of rental system. Be it developing rental licenses for companies like Gamefly etc., or just offering digital rentals in their online stores where you just pay per day (and own it if you reach the current purchase price).

Just speculation of course though.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

The ultimate problem with this system is that it relies on Live being 100% flawless and unhackable. As someone who got a 360 at launch, lived through multiple Live outtages(5 RROD) over the years, and knows a couple people that got the Fifa hack, the X1 will be no different. Live will go down and millions of people will own expensive bricks.

live has never been hacked EVER like psn was i can't remember anytime the last 4 years since i got live for first time live was ever down for more then couple hours. i trust microsoft in thier security then i ever did and will with sony. microsoft has been doing security like live for 30 years and sony pays 3rd party company to run their servers and security.

 

[matrix9280]

So it looks like there will be a way to trade stuff in to GS (and other "participating retailers" which seems like a bad thing for independent shops). That is good, at least. But my primary method of justifying brand new $60 game purchases was the ability to sell them for $40+ within the first few weeks. It looks like that is just not going to be able to happen? So they preserve GS's business in some way, but hose the individual consumer? And oh, yeah, by the way GS and all other game trade-in places will be able to offer you FAR less than they even do now since the game has no resale potential otherwise. eBay/Amazon used sales prices have always been there to put a little pressure, at least, on places like Gamestop to provide decent trade-in values. That will be out the window, apparently.

That's collusion. Especially if Sony tries the same thing. It's illegal. Someone will answer for this.

 

[jkam]

Yeah it's like they will completely control the used game market. Seems unfair, especially to mom and pop stores. We all know how connecting every 24 hours is going to go...nowhere good.

PC is starting to look better and better.

 

[phantomfriar2002]

So it looks like there will be a way to trade stuff in to GS (and other "participating retailers" which seems like a bad thing for independent shops). That is good, at least. But my primary method of justifying brand new $60 game purchases was the ability to sell them for $40+ within the first few weeks. It looks like that is just not going to be able to happen? So they preserve GS's business in some way, but hose the individual consumer? And oh, yeah, by the way GS and all other game trade-in places will be able to offer you FAR less than they even do now since the game has no resale potential otherwise. eBay/Amazon used sales prices have always been there to put a little pressure, at least, on places like Gamestop to provide decent trade-in values. That will be out the window, apparently.

That's collusion. Especially if Sony tries the same thing. It's illegal. Someone will answer for this.

I completely agree with you, but it'll take a law suit and some time before it gets anywhere. But it absolutely smacks of price fixing. "Participating retailers" and the publishers, all in bed with each other.

the thing is they said they will leave trading in games up to publishers what happens if 3rd party publisher puts no limits on the trade in little trade in stores are not out of luck. i could very well see most publishers turn down the option for that.

Yeah, right. Do you truly believe they're going to these extremes to implement all of these features, and that nobody is going to use the option? The 3rd party publishers are apparently the ones who WANT used game DRM!

This is a massive clusterf---k for MS, there's no way around it, and if Sony goes down the same road, they won't hear the end of it either from the gaming community.

 

[dmaul1114]

What they should have done at least as a transition stage for this next generation is to allow you to deactivate that license on your account at any time. Then you could trade/sell/lend the game like normal, allowing the new user to "reinstall" the now vacated license on their account. There would inevitably be some hiccups with that (a buyer claiming the license wasn't valid and filing a dispute) but it is better than nothing. And they could still allow Gamestop and other trade-in places to force the deactivation (as that would be required for the viability of the trade-in program).

Hopefully first sales doctrine will get applied to digital goods (like it recently did in the European Union) and we'll eventually get a system just like that for digital games, books, movies etc.

DRM is understandable as they need a way to make sure only one person is playing a copy of a game at time since the disc is not longer needed. But there needs to be an easy way for a person to deactivate their license and sell the game they purchased (or trade it or gift it) to someone else just like they can a disc currently. Same with books and movies.

Either that or just stop selling stuff and go to a cloud based subscription service for everything where you just pay monthly for full access to everything. We're a long ways off for having the internet infrastructure for that though.

Honestly if anything the whole thing doesn't make sense. They should have just gone digital only. The discs are basically useless at this point. I'm not sure who this convoluted strategy is helping at this point. PS4 might do it as well though but at least they have PLUS, that already felt like a better solution to ease us into digital than Microsoft has offered. I'm probably going to go one console next gen, one game at a time, no more backlog with this.

I'm sure they'd have loved to. But too many people don't have super fast internet to be buying and downloading huge game files--but have plenty of speed for simple licence checks. Hell, they'll probably put out a modem adapter for people still on dial up to be able to call in to activate. Or maybe some cellular based one.

That's collusion. Especially if Sony tries the same thing. It's illegal. Someone will answer for this.

I imagine they'll make it so any retailer can opt-in to the program. Probably even provide the needed software for free. So the only stores left out would be ones that didn't have a computerized system I guess.

Yeah it's like they will completely control the used game market. Seems unfair, especially to mom and pop stores. We all know how connecting every 24 hours is going to go...nowhere good.

PC is starting to look better and better.

If I'm right in my assumption that any retailer can opt to participate, then that's not really true. MS said they wouldn't charge any fees for participating in the process (though publishers could I guess), so stores would still be free to buy used games for whatever price they wanted and sell them for whatever price they wanted--again, unless publishers can charge fees etc.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

So it looks like there will be a way to trade stuff in to GS (and other "participating retailers" which seems like a bad thing for independent shops). That is good, at least. But my primary method of justifying brand new $60 game purchases was the ability to sell them for $40+ within the first few weeks. It looks like that is just not going to be able to happen? So they preserve GS's business in some way, but hose the individual consumer? And oh, yeah, by the way GS and all other game trade-in places will be able to offer you FAR less than they even do now since the game has no resale potential otherwise. eBay/Amazon used sales prices have always been there to put a little pressure, at least, on places like Gamestop to provide decent trade-in values. That will be out the window, apparently.

That's collusion. Especially if Sony tries the same thing. It's illegal. Someone will answer for this.

I completely agree with you, but it'll take a law suit and some time before it gets anywhere. But it absolutely smacks of price fixing. "Participating retailers" and the publishers, all in bed with each other.

the thing is they said they will leave trading in games up to publishers what happens if 3rd party publisher puts no limits on the trade in little trade in stores are not out of luck. i could very well see most publishers turn down the option for that.

Yeah, right. Do you truly believe they're going to these extremes to implement all of these features, and that nobody is going to use the option? The 3rd party publishers are apparently the ones who WANT used game DRM!

This is a massive clusterf---k for MS, there's no way around it, and if Sony goes down the same road, they won't hear the end of it either from the gaming community.

then why only bash ms lets bash all video game makers so stop buying games then. it's obvious ms and sony were getting so many upset game makers that they put this in these systems.

 

[spatenfloot]

the question i have is when they say play on cloud does that mean the game is streaming which we seen from onlive most internets can't handle that or do you need to download it and if someone has slow dsl could take hours if not days to download a full game.

The cloud means it will need to be constantly connected to play the game since it requires online resources.

 

[matrix9280]

If anything that's why I think it will be different for Sony in terms of used games and lending out games and such. They open themselves up to a lot of problems if they're deal looks too similar to M$.

 

[spatenfloot]

It seems pretty certain that EA and Activision (perhaps Ubisoft) will require an initial activation to play on PS4 as well. However, Sony first party games will not require it. Sony has also stated that you DO NOT need to connect to the internet at all, which means any DRM is likely disc based.

 

[spydey]

The ultimate problem with this system is that it relies on Live being 100% flawless and unhackable. As someone who got a 360 at launch, lived through multiple Live outtages(5 RROD) over the years, and knows a couple people that got the Fifa hack, the X1 will be no different. Live will go down and millions of people will own expensive bricks.

live has never been hacked EVER like psn was i can't remember anytime the last 4 years since i got live for first time live was ever down for more then couple hours. i trust microsoft in thier security then i ever did and will with sony. microsoft has been doing security like live for 30 years and sony pays 3rd party company to run their servers and security.

It was Christmas week three of four years ago. It was down for several days.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

the question i have is when they say play on cloud does that mean the game is streaming which we seen from onlive most internets can't handle that or do you need to download it and if someone has slow dsl could take hours if not days to download a full game.

The cloud means it will need to be constantly connected to play the game since it requires online resources.

you can play games offline just have to reconnect to server every 24 hours

 

[dmaul1114]

It seems pretty certain that EA and Activision (perhaps Ubisoft) will require an initial activation to play on PS4 as well. However, Sony first party games will not require it. Sony has also stated that you DO NOT need to connect to the internet at all, which means any DRM is likely disc based.

They were pretty dodgy in that statement just saying that you didn't have to go online for the console to work etc.

Didn't preclude that certain games from certain publishers may not work if you don't go online. I have a hard time seeing EA, Ubisoft etc. being ok with having full control over DRM on Xbone and not PS4. And with the franchises they have, Sony can't really tell them to pound sand and would be pretty much forced to let publishers use online DRM if they wanted.

I don't think either Sony or MS first party games will require the DRM if I had to guess. I figure it's probably the big third party publishers pushing for it, and they'll both want to be open on their first party stuff so that the third party companies take more of the heat.

Time will tell though.