Xbox Banning Discussion
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crazedracerguy
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4 years... That's about the time that you go from just using your accounting degree to having to go ahead and get your CPA license. I got a shot at an IT job at a startup company at that time, so I jumped ship. I'm glad I did. It paid of greatly in the long run.
Then by that merit, the whole "red ring of death" for the first generation of consoles should not have caused the company to extend the warranties since a relatively low number of people had that issue, when compared to the whole body of consumers. Unless a consumer costs you more money that profit they provide, it is a bad business decision to cut them off. Business is all about profit, and if you will make more profit from someone than cost they will incur you, then you will want to continue doing business with them.
As to your second point, I worked as a clearing associate, settling trades and doing forensic accounting on the movement of money between accounts after marketplace trades for institutional organizations. Essentially, I fixed the mistakes that accountants made either due to incorrect shares, cost, multiplier, conversion rate, ect. If an account was off by $20K that was a HUGE deal that had to be fixed ASAP (keep in mind our accounts held hundreds of millions of dollars overall). I fixed things all the way down to $1, and even when it was less than a dollar I would still try to fix all the errors. If the balancing between accounts ever got off I had to explain what I was doing to resolve it or I would get in trouble for not doing my job. I saw plenty of other clearing people who would let thousands of dollars of discrepancies just pile up over years and did nothing about it. Those were people who were bad at their jobs. I get that $20K is a drop in the bucket against millions of dollars between accounts, but $20K enough times adds up.
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crazedracerguy
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The RRoD fiasco was ONLY cleaned up by MS because the initial failure rate was something like 3.1%, which was above the allowable failure rate that they had determined (probably by looking at failure rates of previous consoles). In terms of what I was just saying, they decided that having a failure rate that high WAS material to them.
Your job may have required someone to go through trades to the penny due to some regulatory concern or something. It certainly was not for profit. As an accountant, we determined the materiality based on auditing regulations. If the client had come back and said "That's no good for us, we want to set our limit at $10.", we would have obliged. Of course, they would have been charged accordingly. Same with MS. It wouldn't be worth it for them to look at each and every account, check the overall spending, see if there had ever been complaints, talk to the user and ask them never to do it again and if they can comply, check on the users again every 6 months to make sure they hadn't violated any other terms of service... Far easier (and within MS's limits of subscriber loss) to ban these consoles or users entirely and not worry about it. If they all of a sudden saw a HUGE hemorrhaging of subscribers, they'd probably come up with a different approach or a different loss figure as a threshold.
FlamedLiquid
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does anyone else want to talk about their past employment or current employment history?
I've heard a lot about accountants that switch to IT and do well. Good to hear you're one of them. It only takes 2 years of public accounting to earn a CPA license in Nevada. Very psyched about doing that.
That is a good point, the SEC is very particular about that stuff and SOX compliance is the gold standard.
As for profit and loss, I don't think you took into consderation goodwill (and I think MS has overlooked that a lot as well). Sure, perhaps a very tiny portion of MS's client base is being banned, but those people are most likely very active int he community and very vocal online. The vocal minority is a very powerful group, and the goodwill generated through the whole communty by soothing their concerns is very important. Consider the Xbox One issues. For all the outcry, it was still a vocal minority that hated the DRM while the general buying public was not well informed or did not care. It was a portion of the community who frequented gaming sites. Even then, there were still people in that minority who visit gaming sites that supported the DRM and are now crying out against its removal.
Yet the outcry of that fraction of people who visit gaming sites and follow gaming news was enough to change MSs stance and policy. The best explanation for that is goodwill, they want a good image in the gaming community and among gamers. MS has said time and time again that they really believed (and still do) in ther initial policies for Xbox One. If they still believe in those policies the only reason for them to abandon them is because they want goodwill amongst gamers. Goodwill is good for sales. They are once again harming their goodwill with this series of bans. How much of a goodwill impact it will have is ultimately dependant on how much press these bands get and what the reaction by the gaming public on these sites is. MS doesn't need any more bad press or loss of goodwill considering all that they have gotten from many issue over the past years, and all they have gotten from the Xbox One alone. Goodwill is a business asset to which actuarial value can be attributed.
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crazedracerguy
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I'd agree that goodwill is a good thing... Given the difference of how MS is characterizing this (marketplace theft) versus the argument of the people that got banned ("All I did was set up a fictional account in Oman, go through a backdoor access method and download a game (or 6) that was mistakenly labeled as free, do the same thing for a game that was mislabeled in Bosnia, do the same thing for a game in Morocco and then Microsoft unfairly banned me for NOTHING!)... I think most non CAG oriented gamers will side with Microsoft on this one...
In the case of the RRoD, there was little blame that MS could shift. It came down tho the fact that all someone had to do was buy a brand new console for $400 and they had a 3% chance of getting a console that was going to fail prematurely. To do nothing would have been the ultimate badwill...
In the case of the RRoD, there was little blame that MS could shift. It came down tho the fact that all someone had to do was buy a brand new console for $400 and they had a 3% chance of getting a console that was going to fail prematurely. To do nothing would have been the ultimate badwill...
The thing I want to know is who found this method out? It is so obscure that someone could randomly go to hotmail.com and make an account for a specific region not available on the Xbox 360, then find the obscure method to be able to search the marketplace place with a region that doesn't have a marketplace. Then to find specifically what games are free.
Every single step of it seems too obscure, how would anyone outside of microsft themselves who list the content prices be able to find something like this out?
Are there dedicated people that just spend all day making profiles in every one of the million regions and searching through every single piece of the millions of things on the marketplace with each specific profile until they find something? It just seems so unplausible.
Every single step of it seems too obscure, how would anyone outside of microsft themselves who list the content prices be able to find something like this out?
Are there dedicated people that just spend all day making profiles in every one of the million regions and searching through every single piece of the millions of things on the marketplace with each specific profile until they find something? It just seems so unplausible.
KillerRamen
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Yeah... What they did is not fraudulent and their TOS doesn't say anything about regional pricing.
RiceQuakes
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are you suggesting it was a black-ops executed by a mole in microsoft aimed to drive more loyal gamers away from their new console?
maybe it was Don Mattrick's people? 
in any case this shows microsoft truly cares absolutely nothing about their customers. you stole food from my plate? sure i'll just crush you like a cockroach you are
i'd have sided with microsoft if they just took away or banned the new accounts and then temp banned the main account and console. completely taking away everything you have bought from them permanently just because you created new account to get some free games is completely unreasonable. it is despicable.
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RiceQuakes
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I'm in college right now. I really want to do marketing, but I hear that there are too many people doing it. So I was thinking finance, accounting, economics, or computer science. What do you think?
crazedracerguy
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There is always work in accounting. Finance wouldn't be horrible. Computer science only if you have a genuine talent with programming or something that's in demand - you don't really want to be a computer jockey your whole life - and if you do, you'd be just as well to start off at Geek Squad or a local computer shop that's willing to pay you to learn.
draven1089
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Has any one switched out their harddrive to a different system? Just making sure if I play on a different systme it won't ban it.
RiceQuakes
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Is accounting boring? Some of my family and friends say that; it kinda deters me from going towards that major.
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Try taking an intro class. I personally don't find it that boring, but sometimes the material does get kind of dry.Is accounting boring? Some of my family and friends say that; it kinda deters me from going towards that major.
RiceQuakes
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I'm actually taking my 2nd accounting class (and 2nd econ). I'm don't hate them, but I don't enjoy them either. LOL
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I did. Using the banned console, I deleted all of the accounts aside from my primary (I don't know which accounts my fiance made for what) and all of the offending games that were on the freebie list. I swapped it to my other 360 and it's been working fine for the past few days now.
And does anyone know a good way to force a slim to RROD?
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GorillaMonsoon
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Does it make any sense to purchase the "fraudulently" obtained content with the main gamertag at full retail price from the marketplace in hopes of avoiding a ban? Do you think if a ban were to happen you'd have any recourse if you did that? Do you think they'd see the purchase and realize you made good? Or do you think they wouldn't even notice and it would just be further salt in the wound?
RiceQuakes
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imagine the rage you will feel when you get banned after buying the free contents with full price.
i think it will only raise more attention to your account.
Let me tell you what is so great about accounting: there are rarely suprises. Numbers, tables, figures... they make sense, they "add up". If you have a problem with an account, there are a set number of things that could be the issue. When there is a discrepancy, you could essentially just run down a checklist to see what went wrong and then fix it. Sure, sometimes there are multiple problems each of which is causing part of the issue, but that is as difficult as it gets.
That is why I have loved finance and accounting: it can be annoying, long hours, tough days... as with any job it depends on your coworkers, boss, and company. But accounting, finance, and any time where your primary job is working with numbers, things are very nicely straight forward. Once I had gotten a handle on how things worked things became pretty simple: I created a daily check list of what I needed to get done, and even had it down to what time I should have certain tasks completed. It allowed me to work at a steady pace, get my work done efficiently, and not become overwhelmed. Outside of emergencies, big errors from other departments, or monthly/yearly end of period account balancing, you could look forward to predicatble and steady days, which I found to be very nice.
GorillaMonsoon
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I thought about that, however, they can no longer claim "circumventing" regional pricing, perhaps at the time of the fraud, but not at the time of the ban. I suppose they could still claim the gamertag was fraudulent, but they can't technically prove the name/address aren't legit. But I think my biggest fear is they wouldn't notice and I'd feel ENTITLED to have things made right, and I'd probably spend hours and hours on Xbox support pleading my case. But I would at least have a legitimate case for a reversal.imagine the rage you will feel when you get banned after buying the free contents with full price.
i think it will only raise more attention to your account.
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blablah2382
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Should make a seperate thread for college/careers.
i work at a software company (yeah CS major) and whatever some customer finds a problem in production, it's like all hell breaks loose. a while ago some colleague went on vacation overseas. some production incident happened in the project he worked with. and the company could not reach him. they fired him right away.
CS is a fast changing field. the knowledge learned from school could quickly become outdated. and it does not grow better with age.
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but you have already committed so-called "fraud" as you got the games for free. buying another set of copies does not mask the fact that you got them for free beforehand. you did "circumvent" regional pricing.
and good luck dealing with microsoft support. i got banned from microsoft store for using the Xbox One preorder code (legitimately). took me months of back and forth to get them to unban me. that was when i did nothing wrong.
Bradisback
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Wrap the 360 in a couple towels and turn on. Just make sure all airflow is restricted.I did. Using the banned console, I deleted all of the accounts aside from my primary (I don't know which accounts my fiance made for what) and all of the offending games that were on the freebie list. I swapped it to my other 360 and it's been working fine for the past few days now.
And does anyone know a good way to force a slim to RROD?
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This sounds like my logic back when I used to hang out with the streetracers and they'd always meet up in the same Rite-Aid parking lot. It got to the point the manager called the cops to cite everyone (100+ cars) for trespassing.
As soon as I saw the first cop car coming down the street, I walked into Rite-Aid and bought a $1 Little Debbie snack cake. I was no longer trespassing, but a paying customer. As I came out, a cop was writing out a ticket for my car and I proceeded to ask him what the problem was. He gave gave me the whole "You know what it's for" type of shpiel, but once I showed him my receipt from my purchase just moments ago, he knew he had no legs to stand on. He gave me that look like he knew just how full of shit I was, and I'm sure I made an enemy that night, but eh, whatever.
I was a paying customer of said establishment prior to being "charged" with a crime, thereby nullifying said crime. I even told the officer that I am a paying customer of the establishment and I am going to sit in the parking lot and enjoy my recently purchased snack cake, which was my legal right. All of my friends got tickets, some got towed and they were all pissed at me that I walked away with not even a warning.
But back to this topic, I doubt it will apply as you already broke their TOS, and they can prove it happened prior to the legitimate purchase.
I got my B.A. in CS. Thankfully I decided not to go into CS after school, there is WAY too much change in the field. But it turns out that that people really like seeing a Comp Sci degree because it means you are "tech savvy" and can "innovate".
To tie this back to the topic, a lot of fault lies with the coders at MS. They did some sloppy coding. If people weren't supposed to access marketplaces in certain countries they should have also disabled the marketplace search option. If those games weren't supposed to be accessed or free, then the appropirate blocks should have been in place. If making a foreign account was supposed to be prohibited, then the "where are you from" and "country/region" fields should not be seperated, and people should be IP banned from making foreign accounts.
This is a lot of sloppy coding.
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RiceQuakes
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Thanks for all of the advice, guys. I think I'll go with a double major: marketing (what I really want to do) and accounting or finance (for a relatively secure major). A lot of the classes overlap, so it won't take me that much longer to graduate.
I'll shut up with this off topic stuff now. :lol:
I'll shut up with this off topic stuff now. :lol:
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I don't understand the point in deleting the offending games.I did. Using the banned console, I deleted all of the accounts aside from my primary (I don't know which accounts my fiance made for what) and all of the offending games that were on the freebie list. I swapped it to my other 360 and it's been working fine for the past few days now.
And does anyone know a good way to force a slim to RROD?
I'm console banned, Main GT banned.
I'm playing single player (or local multiplayer) Injustice, Rayman, and Angry Birds on my BANNED, offline console.
What are they going to do? Super Secret Double BAN me??!!
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he probably got another console and his main GT is not banned (yet).I don't understand the point in deleting the offending games.
I'm console banned, Main GT banned.
I'm playing single player (or local multiplayer) Injustice, Rayman, and Angry Birds on my BANNED, offline console.
What are they going to do? Super Secret Double BAN me??!!
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GorillaMonsoon
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Haha
Haha, its "sort of" like that, but its more akin to stealing something, not yet getting caught, deciding you made a mistake, and paying for it. The hope would be that when they come after you, they realize you made good on paying up and drop the case or give a warning. You're right that it might not matter, and its completely dependent on Microsoft to care, and also to notice in the first place.
GorillaMonsoon
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Does this still work? Do they still "flag" consoles for banning? http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/threads/how-to-tell-if-youre-console-flagged-banned.614841/
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xxdani
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Exactly. I have another console and my main account is still active. I'm hoping they don't touch my main account, because I have ~$150 in that account and if I lose that, there are going to be some charge backs coming their way.
Yeah, sort of. I was referring more to the rationale than the situation.
probably not in this case as there should be no "security event" for creating new account and purchase "free" contents in a marketplace store
Wait to get another HDD for the other console and leave all content on the Banned Console.
Use a USB to transfer all the game saves/profiles you want to keep.
The banned console can never go back online and already has the licenses for ALL(most) of the content on it's HDD.
The banned console could then have some use with content on it instead of just wiping it clean.
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Saw this mentioned in the banning thread on NeoGaf from today's Gamerscore Popcast #106. At about 33min in bl4ck silv4 talks about contacting people at Microsoft and was told they are cracking down on people getting out of region content, both paid and stuff downloaded free. He says they told him to not play out of region content on your main profile or you can get banned even if it was paid for. They also talked about Microsoft going after people downloading games on one system then playing them on another while logged into Live.
http://www.1milliongamerscore.com/2013/09/gamerscore-popcast-106.html
Apparently they made this easier for them to detect with the latest dashboard update and say this policy will be the same for Xbox One.
http://www.1milliongamerscore.com/2013/09/gamerscore-popcast-106.html
Apparently they made this easier for them to detect with the latest dashboard update and say this policy will be the same for Xbox One.
Edit: Okay, I am listening to the podcast now. They are saying you can't play the console license and profile license at the same time on different consoles. That makes sense except that it is completely within their power to make it so that if one license is being used then the other cannot be used online at the same time. They could just make it not work, rather than issue bans. Then one of the licenses would have to play offline while the other played online. But again, the solution to make sure that only one license is used at a time (off or online) is to make there be only one license (preferably the account license so you can play at friend's houses). If they really want to be that stingy, that is the way to go, rather than account/console bans for a feature they themselves implemented.
Also, then it makes no sense that they would allow people to make profiles for other countries, nor would it make sense to allow IPs outide of a country to make a tag for that country. This is all completely within MSs power to prevent, but rather than prevent it they plan on banning people for it? That is not a company anyone should be doing business with.
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according to the podcast, it seems that you will get banned for playing content using another gametag. say you bought a game on your console C1 with gametag G1, and then you log out and log in with gametag G2 and play it on C1. you will get banned.
this seems really outrageous as i don't remember any of these have been mentioned anywhere before. and microsoft does not hand out warnings, they just go straight perm banning people's tags and consoles.
i will avoid this kind of company like a plague.
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FlawlessImage
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exactly. i always dl the content on my sons console anyway that way we both can have access to it so how is there anything wrong with that if im within the terms they laid out which says i get a console license and a profile license,now i wouldnt even be able to play games without paranoia that im doing something to get myself banned smh.
He said he was trying to get clarification on if it is a per game or per account basis, but for now said even if both systems are on the same IP to not download a game on one system then go on another and download the game and play it again while someone could possibly access the content on the original system.
Also if possibly accessing market places from other regions isn't allowed, I don't see much of a point in them saying the Xbox One is region free.
FlawlessImage
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yep and theres no way that can be right considering if you log into another gamertag on the console it was dled to you dont even have the option to buy the content again since its on your hd.
bread's done