Obama Care Could Be Deadly

I would like to know how many are signed up for a true insurance plan that they pay for all of it, how many are signed up and are covered through medicaid and medicare, and how much is being paid out in subsidies.  Then again I won't give a shit if I never see that data either.

 
after this whole Cliven Bundy deal, I'm surprised conservatives are still interested whether people play their bills. 

 
usickenme said:
after this whole Cliven Bundy deal, I'm surprised conservatives are still interested whether people play their bills.
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A little off topic but I took an opportunity to read through a Washington Post article outlining the whole ordeal from beginning to end

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/04/15/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-long-fight-between-cliven-bundy-and-the-federal-government/

I guess I'm just not sure why he feels entitled to graze his cattle on lands he doesn't own in the first place. Sure they're publicly owned, and I'd be interested in the finer details of the grazing permit but essentially he doesn't own that land to begin with.

The reason the permit is important is because if it is a license, then it is revocable at will by the grantor, the federal government. If it's an easement it gets a little murkier because easements can be for an indefinite period of time. I'm tending to think it's a license though because it would be quite foolish to grant an easement for grazing.

People such a Cliven Bundy who are so concerned about individual rights, and the rights of landowners particularly, should be cognizant that they're trespassing on someone else's land. If this was a dispute between 2 farmers you can damn well bet the trespasser would be in the wrong but because it's the federal government that holds title it's somehow different?
 
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usickenme said:
after this whole Cliven Bundy deal, I'm surprised conservatives are still interested whether people play their bills.
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I don't care about Al Bundy's retarded entitled fourth cousin. So get the fuck out of here with that crap.

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Omg the first non sequitur in CAG history..deal with it dude

that's right only the poor who "get stuff" are relevant to the discussion. I forgot how you guys operate. I doubt you would really "like to know". If the answer came back that doesn't support your worldview..you probably already have an excuse at the ready.

(and side note. Al bundy? really dude? was Archie Bunker taken?
 
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is archie bunker's last name bundy too?  (spoiler alert it isn't)

you do know that disagreeing with implementation of one man's opinion of a solution does not mean that I do not think the poor need help or that a system is broken (a system with no checks or balances with never ending cost increases and profiteering centered around the care of someone's right to life? fail). 

free your mind lad

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I've noticed Fox News sold some Obamacare while shitting in it's mouth. Damn media powerhouse can't even troll properly. I'd imagine you could pull some stellar numbers when a bunch of whitey's are continuously hating on the black man's attempts to "save live's". Even if the entire system is fundamentally flawed.

 
Medicaid is dependent on the state government, and a good deal of the states in an effort to be total fuck ers to their citizens, decided to not take the federal money to fund it. Tennessee had that lottery if you can recall up to two years back. Look at how that's working great! If people in those states still depend on free clinics and those clinics are being overburdened, you tell me how Medicaid is working in that particular area.

Private companies have to follow at least some kind of standard, as put by the Affordable Care Act and older laws. State governments can fuck you up because of political reasons.

 
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detectiveconan16 said:
Medicaid is dependent on the state government, and a good deal of the states in an effort to be total fuck ers to their citizens, decided to not take the federal money to fund it. Tennessee had that lottery if you can recall up to two years back. Look at how that's working great! If people in those states still depend on free clinics and those clinics are being overburdened, you tell me how Medicaid is working in that particular area.

Private companies have to follow at least some kind of standard, as put by the Affordable Care Act and older laws. State governments can fuck you up because of political reasons.
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I think most of the states turned down the expansion because of the future expenditures that were required by it under the ACA law. Realizing that an already bankrupt gov't probably can't make good on its part of the deal is a good thing. You do know that we run $4.1 billion over budget EVERYDAY?!? Right?

 
Who needs to make an actual argument when you can just ask inane questions? Also excess punctuation and CAPS trump logic and reason every time.
 
Msut77 said:
Who needs to make an actual argument when you can just ask inane questions? Also excess punctuation and CAPS trump logic and reason every time.
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You do realize you have just described yourself. In the past you would ignore my questions and sources and only address the things you thought you could turn in your favor. Unfortunately for you I always won.

 
detectiveconan16 said:
Private companies have to follow at least some kind of standard, as put by the Affordable Care Act and older laws.
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This is one thing that I agree with.

In 1996 when I was 18, on my own, at on of my first jobs, they offered health insurance. It was $345 a paycheck, $12,000 deductible and was not even accepted by the closest hospital. All of the doctors that were "in network" were in a different state, about 30 minutes away. Needless to say it wasn't worth a shit and no one took it. However, we were 18, ready to work, and not worried about our health. Our biggest concern was getting drunk, laid, and drunk again.

Forcing people to buy it really doesn't change things too much, but by encouraging people to get out of McDonald's and into a better job with benefits can help.

There are people who make a career out of McDonald's, and they should have the option to have good health insurance. Is the best option making the owner pay more or offer better coverage or to force people to buy a rubber stamp plan from Obama himself?

 
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Msut77 said:
Who needs to make an actual argument when you can just ask inane questions? Also excess punctuation and CAPS trump logic and reason every time.
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If this is in reference to my post, then perhaps you missed my point. Some states see our mounting debt and realize that the gov't can not sustain all of these social programs. Therefore they will not institute a policy that will require them to pay for more services that the state can not afford. It's about making promises that you know you will not be able to keep.

"You do know that we run $4.1 billion over budget EVERYDAY?!? Right?" That is an "inane" question? Please explain.

 
Ego,

Why do you think some places can afford health care systems that cover everyone but spend less?

Why Don't You Define Which Social Program you care talking about that causes the 4.1 billion every day issue. You won't give an actual response.
 
Koggit said:
from the responses here i'm convinced <5% even know what it is the democrats are proposing.. it's not socialized, it's not nationalized, it's nothing like canada's.. seeing a whole lot of arguments here about "oh the government does things inefficiently so nationalized care would suck", which isn't applicable at all...

obama/dems want:
- forced healthcare, everyone has coverage, people without insurance are fined, like car insurance.

- subsidies for low-income families (up to some crazy-high income bracket, over 100k i think) to get insurance

- a self-sufficient federal insurance program as an option, to compete with private insurers

it's mostly geared toward lowering how much we spend on healthcare as a nation, and partially to getting basic care to the poor. it's amazing how many people will make up their mind about something and begin moaning without even knowing what's going on.
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Obama wants none of that. Get your head out of your ass. He just wants control. Those are nice clean talking points but that is clearly is not what he wants given his past actions.

But hey when something goes wrong that he supposedly didn't intend.. he will just say "he heard about it in the news" like the rest of us right?
 
Msut77 said:
Ego,

Why do you think some places can afford health care systems that cover everyone but spend less?

Why Don't You Define Which Social Program you care talking about that causes the 4.1 billion every day issue. You won't give an actual response.
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Do you want me to respond or will you keep acting like a little girl?

 
Msut77 said:
Ego,

Why do you think some places can afford health care systems that cover everyone but spend less?

Why Don't You Define Which Social Program you care talking about that causes the 4.1 billion every day issue. You won't give an actual response.
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Some places have a homogeneous population, less people, and a myriad of other differences than the US. Some places are broke with nationalized healthcare. I am not totally against it. I just want a balanced budget with a "pay as you go" policy with accountability truly in place before we start adding new entitlements. All of gov't spending is out of control, not just our social programs. How about the gov't fulfills its directly listed Constitutional requirements before blowing more money on "general welfare" excuse promotions? Maybe you will answer my illegal immigration versus unemployment question. Are you in favor of open immigration allowing tax paid benefits to immigrants while we have such high unemployment and welfare use?

 
Name a place that's broke because they spend more on health care. Also please quantify the homogeneous (read some brown people) population thing.
 
Msut77 said:
Name a place that's broke because they spend more on health care. Also please quantify the homogeneous (read some brown people) population thing.
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http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-03/frances-health-care-system-is-going-broke

The health system exceeds its budget by billions of euros each year, and in the face of rising costs, taxpayer-funded benefits such as spa treatments, which the French have long justified as preventive care, now look more like expendable luxuries. “Reform is needed fast,” Hodin says. “The most optimistic believe this system can survive another five to six years. The less optimistic don’t think it will last more than three.”

The government projects the health-care system’s 2013 shortfall will be about €5.1 billion, down from €11.6 billion in 2010. Yet that forecast may be optimistic, since it’s based on the assumption that the economy will grow 0.8 percent—double the European Commission’s estimate. France’s system “is simply unaffordable, unsustainable, and the manner in which it’s financed is a huge burden on the economy,” says Nicholas Spiro, managing director of Spiro Sovereign Strategy in London. “The French are not being realistic.”

Answer my immigration/unemployment question, please.

 
I am 99% percent certain this was clear. Name a system that was broke because they spent more than us, per capita anyway you slice it.

Does France spend more than us?

 
irideabike said:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101819065

ruh roh
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Hahahahahahaha!!!! Clown shoes all the way. How inept is our gov't when they can't even write their own agenda laden law in proper legalise? I like how liberals want the "intent" of the law to be enforced instead of how it is actually written when it suits their purpose. Yet they look for every semantic trick in the book when dealing with the 2nd and 14th amendments.
 
Before Obamacare life sure was sweet. I mean if you're going to get a life threatening illness, why should the government be there to help you survive it? Who cares if you go bankrupt?

Sure Obamacare sucks, I'll admit that, but what sucks more is the alternative (or lack thereof.) It's really bizarre that Kentucky, of all places, does the ACA better than Indiana or New Jersey.

 
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Well, gorsh durn it. It sure is a shame that the only two possible options ever are what we had before or "Obamacare". You'd think with all them thar smart folks they'd be able to come up with somethin' better...

By the way, Myke thinks you're someone who shouldn't be taken seriously because you said "Obamacare". ;)
 
detectiveconan16 said:
Before Obamacare life sure was sweet. I mean if you're going to get a life threatening illness, why should the government be there to help you survive it? Who cares if you go bankrupt?

Sure Obamacare sucks, I'll admit that, but what sucks more is the alternative (or lack thereof.) It's really bizarre that Kentucky, of all places, does the ACA better than Indiana or New Jersey.
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Why should the government be there to help you survive it?

Also looking at Msut's latest post, it seems he finally put everyone on ignore list and started to talk to himself.

 
I have spent the last 3 years being sent for test after test after test after test to find out why I am having such horrible stomach problems. Almost every Dr, generalist or specialist, has said IBS and sent me for testing even though its the same pattern for years on end. I cant help but wonder if I lived in Canada if even if the care was delayed for a bit, it would have been resolved faster. The American system does not really encourage healing, it encourages tests and pills. As a kid I had sooooo many Drs push for me to take all sorts of medicines to balance out all sorts of things that were just the result of bad parenting(I say this because as an adult iv fixed the issues without meds on my own). I would be doped up on so many pills I couldnt feel anything had I not put up a huge fight about taking those meds. It doesnt matter if its IBS or ADD an American Dr has a pill and a test for you! Even if you want to go to a holistic Dr and pay out of pocket cutting insurance out, the system is set up not to heal but to profit.

Not saying Canada is perfect. But I would rather wait 3-6 months to get care but then get GREAT care then it be like in the US where in reality it can take years(and a lot of self research)to heal yourself because of how broken our system is. I would also like to point out that in the last few years I have moved several times and its taken longer and longer each time to find a new Dr(and thats with good insurance). After our last move to Lansing it too over a month on a waiting list. We have not de invested in education and let the insurance companies take over the health care system, combine that with broken immigration and its not hard to see that we are slowly entering into a period where just being SEEN by a Dr is going to be harder and harder in the US. That combined with a bunch of other issues has led to my wife over the last several months to start getting a 5 year plan to move to Canada ready. I guess I will get to find out myself how good or bad the Canadian health care system is.

 
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One more quick thing. I know this is not facts and numbers and is just observations from my own life, but my wife has worked at a Canadian owned and ran company for almost a decade now. She has worked at 3 different factories owned by this corporation(Magna) in Ohio and Michigan and naturally they were full of Canadian citizens who either had immigrated here or were here as Canadians working in the US. When I have been at various company picnics, Christmas parties etc etc I have asked quite a few of them about care in the US vs care in Canada and every time without fail they just laugh and say its no comparison. Canadians seem pretty god damn happy regardless of its in polls or just talking to them. The only people NOT happy I have ever encountered are American Republicans, even my wifes big big boss who made it known he supported McCain over Obama said that he preffered the Canadian system both for bussines reasons and personal reasons(though he added and I concede that with his wealth if he had a major problem the US is THE place for MAJOR surgery).

Like I said, all personal stuff not calling it facts. But as I said..it just APPEARS to be American cons that hate the Canadian system.

 
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