ANALYSIS: The “Disastrous” Xbox 360?

[quote name='Michaellvortega']How are you getting Apple is the one to beat? The people to beat are the Cable/SAT companies and to some extent the DVD industry.
[/quote] Interesting perspective but we're talking about getting computers into the living room.

How can you compare the 360's secondary media extender abilities to that of a Mac Mini? Thats Apple's ;) and Oranges.
Click to expand...
I would argue that MS has been trying to use the Xbox to be a real media center option (1, 2, 3). They've said it's not just about games. Unfortunately for them, it sucks at it. I'm just comparing repurposing machines for other uses.
IMO "MS can't do entertainment" is just plain wrong.
Click to expand...
Opinions are like assholes: everyone's got one. ;) Give me some proof that MS can do entertainment.

1) The article that started this thread points out that MS is losing money on their Xbox division. 2 generations into the current console wars and MS hasn't won either one (the PS2 won the first, the Wii will probably win this one).

2) The Gigabeat, err, Zune is a failure. You can claim the iPod didn't take off until the most recent revisions, but the market wasn't mature then. It wasn't ready for DAPs. Now it is. Even Samsung is doing better than the Zune.

3) XBL Marketplace has a pathetic selection of programming.

4) Playsforsure? Hahaha.
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']How are you getting Apple is the one to beat? The people to beat are the Cable/SAT companies and to some extent the DVD industry.

How can you compare the 360's secondary media extender abilities to that of a Mac Mini? Thats Apple's ;) and Oranges.

IMO "MS can't do entertainment" is just plain wrong.[/QUOTE]


Well, the Cable and Sat companies are going to have lots of trouble from the telecom companies... (bandwidth....but that's another discussion). I was really talking about computers in the living room... Something Microsoft has been trying to do since the "Media Center" graft upon XP...


The Mac mini has media center written all over it... TV connections, the iTunes store, wireless connectivity, tiny, quiet... The 360 has yet again movies and other nonsense grafted on the Live experience (I don't consider a 20GB HDD capable of being a media center... which explains the "Elite") but that's assuming most people will use their 360 as a media hub, rather than games...

MS Can't do Entertainment.? Well, they were bested by Tivo earlier in the war, after even buying out Replay TV (I forget the name)... they dissolved that rather quickly... and it's been a series of also-rans and other attempts by MS to get their self-described "brass ring"... They're trying... they're just not succeeding at this point... the Zune just underscores how MS is grasping at straws in an attempt to get _something_ , _anything_ into the living room. We'll see how it pans out, because they've got deep pockets... but the trouble is, Apple is getting deeper pockets and pushing their lead... It's always good to see competition, but I'm not going to prop up a bad idea for the sake of competition... And shareholders might not be as patient as they have in the past (which is my original point in a nutshell...)

I'd really like to see the "next step" MS is planning with the conquest of living rooms... It's fun to watch the behemoths go at it. :)
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']IPTV with MS partnering with ATT is a good start.[/QUOTE]
What content does ATT put out there? Cingular commercials?
 
So MS is getting in bed with the content delivery networks and Apple's getting in bed with the content creators. This'll be interesting... I wonder where MS stands on net neutrality...
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']ATT is a Entertainment provider much like a cable company. Check out https://uverse1.att.com/launchAMSS.do

The 360 can be used as a "cable box/DVR" with the ATT IPTV service. Xbox Live on your cable box=awesome[/QUOTE]


It's certainly going to need a bigger drive to do that. :) And what they're doing is potential... Apple's already doing it.

That's what I meant by catchup.
 
[quote name='Indiana']You must be a young wipper snapper. :)

If you want a good read of video game history pick up The Ultimate History of Video Games by Steven Kent.

It was a good read about the history of Atari, Sega, and Nintendo mostly.[/QUOTE]
I'll pick that up.

I definitely felt young when they showed Breakout and I said aloud "Steve Jobs made Arkenoid!?"
 
[quote name='Mechafenris']It's certainly going to need a bigger drive to do that. :) And what they're doing is potential... Apple's already doing it.

That's what I meant by catchup.[/QUOTE]

Not really, With IPTV everything can be saved on the provider's side, that and 120GB is larger then most store bought TIVOs and Cable and SAT DVRs. Apple is noting compared to ATT, ATT has more content then Apple could ever dream of. When they ask people if they want to have their TV/Internet/phone on one bill, I guarantee most will take it. Not to mention alot of the shows that you can buy on Itunes can be viewed for free via their On-demand service. The content library that ATT offers is larger and more varied, not to mention all the HD content. People will go with a "cable box" over a computer any day pure because of the intimidation factor. Seriously go check out the ATT IPTV, it's really a good service. With Xbox 360 pretty much piggybacking on this service it makes the ultimate cable box.
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']Not really, With IPTV everything can be saved on the provider's side, that and 120GB is larger then most store bought TIVOs and Cable and SAT DVRs. Apple is noting compared to ATT, ATT has more content then Apple could ever dream of. When they ask people if they want to have their TV/Internet/phone on one bill, I guarantee most will take it. Not to mention alot of the shows that you can buy on Itunes can be viewed for free via their On-demand service. The content library that ATT offers is larger and more varied, not to mention all the HD content. People will go with a "cable box" over a computer any day pure because of the intimidation factor. Seriously go check out the ATT IPTV, it's really a good service. With Xbox 360 pretty much piggybacking on this service it makes the ultimate cable box.[/QUOTE]
Yay for onerous DRM and tiered internet service!

But you're missing the point entirely. AT&T is just content delivery. They don't *have* any content of their own. They just get it to you.

Apple deals directly with the labels and producers of the content.

I'm not surprised that MS would deal with the devil to get into this market.
 
[quote name='torifile']Yay for onerous DRM and tiered internet service!

But you're missing the point entirely. AT&T is just content delivery. They don't *have* any content of their own. They just get it to you.

Apple deals directly with the labels and producers of the content.

I'm not surprised that MS would deal with the devil to get into this market.[/QUOTE]

So you think Apple's store has more and better content then current pay television? LOL .
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']So you think Apple's store has more and better content then current pay television? LOL .[/quote] Yeah, that's exactly what I said. :roll:

When you understand the difference between content delivery and content production, lemme know.
 
[quote name='torifile']Yeah, that's exactly what I said. :roll:

When you understand the difference between content delivery and content production, lemme know.[/QUOTE]

Apple doesnt have exclusive shows so what does it matter? Is Greys Anatomy or Lost Itune's exclusive? Production? Don't make me laugh, you make it sound like the Itunes store has something you cant get else.
Where's the exclusive content? Does Apple of content of it's own?
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']Apple doesnt have exclusive shows so what does it matter? Is Greys Anatomy or Lost Itune's exclusive? Production? Don't make me laugh, you make it sound like the Itunes store has something you cant get else.
Where's the exclusive content? Does Apple of content of it's own?[/QUOTE]
Did I say anything about exclusive or original content? I'm not going to educate you on net neutrality and tiered services. The fact remains MS is on the wrong side of the fence here.
 
[quote name='torifile']Did I say anything about exclusive or original content? I'm not going to educate you on net neutrality and tiered services. The fact remains MS is on the wrong side of the fence here.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='torifile'] But you're missing the point entirely. AT&T is just content delivery. They don't *have* any content of their own. They just get it.[/QUOTE]

Apple is doing the same exact thing, Where MS differs is that they are giving you the "choice" of Marketplace,HD-DVD(possible blu-ray if need be), and IPTV. This allows for a broader audience then that of what Apple can reach through Itunes or ITV. MS is just fine at their current pace and definalty made a Apple threatening move with it's partnership with ATT.
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']Apple is doing the same exact thing, Where MS differs is that they are giving you the "choice" of Marketplace,HD-DVD(possible blu-ray if need be), and IPTV. This allows for a broader audience then that of what Apple can reach through Itunes or ITV. MS is just fine at their current pace and definalty made a Apple threatening move with it's partnership with ATT.[/QUOTE]
What percentage of the population has AT&T services? How many outside the US? Now how many people don't have access to AT&T? I'd say the "broader" audience is squarely on the not-reliant-on-ISP side of the equation.

And I've never heard anyone refer to AT&T as a force to be reckoned with WRT to media.
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']Apple is doing the same exact thing, Where MS differs is that they are giving you the "choice" of Marketplace,HD-DVD(possible blu-ray if need be), and IPTV. This allows for a broader audience then that of what Apple can reach through Itunes or ITV. MS is just fine at their current pace and definalty made a Apple threatening move with it's partnership with ATT.[/QUOTE]


Apple gives you a choice. You can use Apple TV with your own stuff, play your own DVDs (even author them if you feel the need) and do so all without the need for wires. :)

Microsoft's "choice" is purely done because they are not firmly backing anything in the marketplace. They cannibalized their own "playsforsure" for the rebadged Zune...

Seems like they're grasping at straws for the moment. When they get a focus, it'll be interesting to see how it compares with the established delivery systems. Cable companies are already positioning themselves to go to an all out war with AT&T and the other telecoms w/r/t content delivery. They're going to use their monopoly position to force the telecoms to put lots more money into this than they initially were thinking... and then, when the stakes get even higher, the telecoms will try to squash municipal broadband, encroach on cable territories and cause a price war. Of course I'm all for that. :)

In the meantime, content delivery by the telecoms is going to take a bit... and each quarter it takes to get a foothold is one quarter the established players get more entrenched.

I understand that you are not an Apple fan, but that doesn't really give any reason to dismiss them out of hand against other theoretical market players. I enjoy competition, but you seem to want everyone but Microsoft to lose. Of course, that's what Microsoft would want. ;)

The future should be about competition. Because if there's no competition, we lose. For the first time in a long time, Microsoft hasn't had a monopoly position from which to enforce a trend in the market... and that's a _good_ thing.
 
[quote name='Mechafenris']Apple gives you a choice. You can use Apple TV with your own stuff, play your own DVDs (even author them if you feel the need) and do so all without the need for wires. :)

Microsoft's "choice" is purely done because they are not firmly backing anything in the marketplace. They cannibalized their own "playsforsure" for the rebadged Zune...

Seems like they're grasping at straws for the moment. When they get a focus, it'll be interesting to see how it compares with the established delivery systems. Cable companies are already positioning themselves to go to an all out war with AT&T and the other telecoms w/r/t content delivery. They're going to use their monopoly position to force the telecoms to put lots more money into this than they initially were thinking... and then, when the stakes get even higher, the telecoms will try to squash municipal broadband, encroach on cable territories and cause a price war. Of course I'm all for that. :)

In the meantime, content delivery by the telecoms is going to take a bit... and each quarter it takes to get a foothold is one quarter the established players get more entrenched.

I understand that you are not an Apple fan, but that doesn't really give any reason to dismiss them out of hand against other theoretical market players. I enjoy competition, but you seem to want everyone but Microsoft to lose. Of course, that's what Microsoft would want. ;)

The future should be about competition. Because if there's no competition, we lose. For the first time in a long time, Microsoft hasn't had a monopoly position from which to enforce a trend in the market... and that's a _good_ thing.[/QUOTE]

Heck no do I want MS to totally win. I just don't think Xbox 360 is "Disastrous" and that Apple Itunes store is way better then The what you can do with the 360(video content wise). Don't get My Halo love twisted with MS love, who ever makes a better product and supports it gets my $.

As for the Telcoms VS Cable, I work for a Cable company worth $40 billion big ones. ATT is worth $400 billion, I don't think ATT gives a hoot about spending the amount of what my company is worth just to get their way. I just sat through a 2 hour meeting about it. Small cable Co's can pretty much kiss their ass goodbye while the Big two Cable Co's all out bare knuckle fight off ATT and Verizon for customers.
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']Heck no do I want MS to totally win. I just don't think Xbox 360 is "Disastrous" and that Apple Itunes store is way better then The what you can do with the 360(video content wise). Don't get My Halo love twisted with MS love, who ever makes a better product and supports it gets my $.

As for the Telcoms VS Cable, I work for a Cable company worth $40 billion big ones. ATT is worth $400 billion, I don't think ATT gives a hoot about spending the amount of what my company is worth just to get their way. I just sat through a 2 hour meeting about it. Small cable Co's can pretty much kiss their ass goodbye while the Big two Cable Co's all out bare knuckle fight off ATT and Verizon for customers.[/QUOTE]

That's my philosophy too. To a lesser extent... there's a certain segment of the corporate cloud from whom I'd sooner go thirsty than buy a glass of water from (but that's another story... *cough DISNEY cough*) The trouble is, that even with the capitalization and local monopolies that AT&T enjoys in terms of phone and DSL service (along with Verizon, etc...) it is nonexistent in the TV realm, and getting their proverbial foot in the door is going to pit them against the entrenched local monopolies and the big players like Comcast and Time Warner (two very large entertainment delivery services... one of which also has a wing of content under their feathers...) And even though AT&T has deep pockets and is recognized in the phone world, they'll lose that advantage in the TV world... plus, the cable monopolies will leverage their ability to tie up new lines in court for a while, giving more of a head start for the cable upgrades needed for obscene bandwidth. So far, only Verizon's doing wholesale fiber to the last mile... (and not on a large scale, yet from what I've read.. I could be wrong, though) which I would think is necessary for the amount of crap, er entertainment, they want to funnel to homes...

It'll be interesting... who knows who will win... but when the government sponsored monopolies get involved, you can bet it won't be us. :) And remember, Microsoft toppled a company many times its size because of shrewd marketing and clever use of PR (OS/2 and IBM)... so size doesn't matter in this kind of war. ;) Especially if the telcos are caught napping (like IBM), even for a second... (or distracted trying to stifle community/municipal wi-fi...)

I don't dispute that you can probably do everything you want with your 360, but for other folks, they are, and have been, doing rather well with Apple's all-in-one solution (they must be selling iPods for a reason, right?) and with its head start, the content that Apple's store has is eclipsing the 360's offerings... and without a proper HDD solution yet (elite's still off in the future... and the 120GB HDD might not immediately come as an add-on) Microsoft's solution appears grafted on to an existing different service (Live). I'm sure it'll get better, but they're going to need studio backing (just like the HD/Blu Ray war), and I'm sure they know that. They just haven't publicized or mentioned it in passing quite yet... whereas Apple's going gangbusters with studio support and the like.

We'll definitely see a different "experience" from MS in the future of Live... just not right now....
 
[quote name='torifile']Yay for onerous DRM and tiered internet service!

But you're missing the point entirely. AT&T is just content delivery. They don't *have* any content of their own. They just get it to you.

Apple deals directly with the labels and producers of the content.

I'm not surprised that MS would deal with the devil to get into this market.[/quote]

Ooookay...so you're saying that AT&T is just content delivery. And Apple is...content delivery. After all they "deal directly with the labels and producers of the content" to do WHAT, exactly? Act as middlemen.

Both AT&T and Apple deal directly with the producers of said content.
 
[quote name='karkyco']Ooookay...so you're saying that AT&T is just content delivery. And Apple is...content delivery. After all they "deal directly with the labels and producers of the content" to do WHAT, exactly? Act as middlemen.

Both AT&T and Apple deal directly with the producers of said content.[/QUOTE]
Read this and then get back to me. AT&T is not someone you want to get in bed with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top