Call of Duty: World at War - Gen. Disc. & Info

Yeah i agree it would be nice for last stand perk to not be usable in hardcore games. I use it, and ive been able to nail a guy across the map with my pistol. And same for others against me. Its like a mini sniper rifle. But hardcore should be hardcore, last stand shouldnt be in there.
 
[quote name='mvp828']I kind of wish they would do something with Last Stand and take it out of Hardcore all together. I hate when I pump a dude in the chest with a shotgun and he drops and shoots me before I can even repump my damn gun.[/quote]

I have been saying this for the longest time. And this is another reason why I think this game is inferior to COD4.

Not only did Treyarch just clone everything from COD4 they didnt even bother to fix the problems with it. COD4 was the first of its kind (in the series) so you give it some slack on bugs. And no about of "just keeping shooting them, problem solved" comments will convince me that Last Stand is not a little buggy. Unless of course Treyarch makes a "absorb an infinite amount of bullets while changing animations" perk.

I really wonder why they couldnt just add the animation of actually pulling out the hand gun instead of having it just magically appear already point at the attackers face.
 
[quote name='The 7th Number']Yeah i agree it would be nice for last stand perk to not be usable in hardcore games. I use it, and ive been able to nail a guy across the map with my pistol. And same for others against me. Its like a mini sniper rifle. But hardcore should be hardcore, last stand shouldnt be in there.[/quote]

Hell yeah they are. The .357 has virtually no recoil all 6(8?) shots are almost guaranteed to hit their mark at a pace that rivals most machine guns.


I think the problem really lays within the mid range to long damage. Because lets face it....if someone is closer than 10ft you can basically chuck a bag of skittles at them and kill them. But its that 15-20ft range where all of a sudden your guns are shooting marshmallow bullets.

And the classes that should dominate that (BA) Rifles are losing out to SMG who seem to have deadly accuracy with burst fire. Maybe thats why 7/10 people are always carrying a SMG no matter the map.

I carry a MP40 and it seem to always have 500+ extra bullets just by running around the map. Same with the Type 100 which seems to be the most dominate gun in the game in close/mid range.


Oh and by the way that PPsH sucks ass. ;)
 
[quote name='The 7th Number'] ive been able to nail a guy across the map with my pistol. And same for others against me. Its like a mini sniper rifle.[/quote]

This happened to me last night on Upheavel (by far my favorite level)... I sniped a guy in the chest across the map and while I was reloading the bastard headshots me with a pistol with just one pull of the trigger.
 
[quote name='kevlar51']Agree 100%. They took a perk that was already kind of cheap in my opinion, and then ADDED the ability to heal and be healed. Plus you'll stay in "last stand" longer, and like you said, the bullets appear to be SIGNIFICANTLY more accurate and deadly.

I'm absolutely amazed I don't see entire teams using it more often.[/quote]

I played with some guys the other night that camped in pairs with it on... every time I shot one of them the other guy just revived him, I put him into last stand at least ten times by the time i got close enough to kill them both with a grenade

In other words, this perk makes hardcore extremely frustrating sometimes...and to add too it theres about a half a second while they are falling that you cant shoot them
 
ah i hate when they pistol snipe! but its realy nice when you do it.
but why hate on last stand? it may be a good perk and some people are very good at shooting long distances, but the pistol is the same in last stand as normal. pistols are accurate, so what? you have one too. and why not just adjust how you play to be sure to get those last standers? use them to your advantage, bait them. hide and wait for someone to revive them. sometimes you can get lucky and the spawn will switch to where the last stander is and you can get way more than just the one kill. figure out ways to use their playing to your advantage.
 
In theory, a well-disciplined team could do a lot of damage to last stand squads. Put one in last stand, then wait for the medic to come along and shoot him too.

The "well-disciplined" part comes in where you need teammates who won't poach your last stands.
 
[quote name='Ow3n']ah i hate when they pistol snipe! but its realy nice when you do it.
but why hate on last stand? it may be a good perk and some people are very good at shooting long distances, but the pistol is the same in last stand as normal. pistols are accurate, so what? you have one too. and why not just adjust how you play to be sure to get those last standers? use them to your advantage, bait them. hide and wait for someone to revive them. sometimes you can get lucky and the spawn will switch to where the last stander is and you can get way more than just the one kill. figure out ways to use their playing to your advantage.[/quote]


Ugh. Chirst. This is what I am talking about.You are completely missing the point.

We are not talking about a game play tactic or strategies ...we are talking about a technical coding issue within the game. No amount of "You should try doing this and this....etc" will answer what we are talking about.

To clarify, at no point in time ever should you be immune to bullets. Now Last Stand has a flaw in it that makes you immune to bullets for a brief period when switching from standing up to the last stand position. Although very brief maybe 1 second at the most, its still enough to give a good advantage to the downed player in a firefight and leads to a lot of cheap kills.

Now the pistol issue is only linked by the fact that they will out shoot most weapons in the game thus making a last stand user extremely deadly.

Now what I was saying was simply, if there is a problem with the code in which you can not remove the shield last stand users get when switching animations all Treyarch had to do was add a brief animation for the last stand user to of "pulling out the pistol." That way..the 1 second invincibility is canceled out by fact that neither one of you can harm each other until after the animation is over.
 
[quote name='BL00DW0LF']I played with some guys the other night that camped in pairs with it on... every time I shot one of them the other guy just revived him, I put him into last stand at least ten times by the time i got close enough to kill them both with a grenade

In other words, this perk makes hardcore extremely frustrating sometimes...and to add too it theres about a half a second while they are falling that you cant shoot them[/quote]

your right about the time you cant shoot them is a little long. overall, i think its nice that they brought back the medic. i think its nice to reward team players.
 
I understand what you're saying, and I agree that it's bullshit, as I too hate last stand, but what are they supposed to do? What's the point of the perk if they get killed in the time between when they're standing and when they're down? If you could kill them in the transition time the perk would have no purpose.
 
[quote name='Trakan']I understand what you're saying, and I agree that it's bullshit, as I too hate last stand, but what are they supposed to do? What's the point of the perk if they get killed in the time between when they're standing and when they're down? If you could kill them in the transition time the perk would have no purpose.[/quote]


Thats why you add a animation that makes them pull out the sidearm. That way both user have the exact same chance of killing each other and it more depends on skill.

Who ever is quicker with the trigger will win.

Hell that would even balance out the Jugg/last stand user who 90% of a clip to take down if they are further than 5 ft away and get you while you are reloading.

EDIT: Oh, and I am actually glad they brought back medic. Bust seriously 2 points? That fucked up. Risking my life stuck in a 5 second animation to save someone and I only get 2 points? Lame.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']
To clarify, at no point in time ever should you be immune to bullets. Now Last Stand has a flaw in it that makes you immune to bullets for a brief period when switching from standing up to the last stand position. Although very brief maybe 1 second at the most, its still enough to give a good advantage to the downed player in a firefight and leads to a lot of cheap kills.

Now what I was saying was simply, if there is a problem with the code in which you can not remove the shield last stand users get when switching animations all Treyarch had to do was add a brief animation for the last stand user to of "pulling out the pistol." That way..the 1 second invincibility is canceled out by fact that neither one of you can harm each other until after the animation is over.[/quote]

whatever, its a perk, its something good to have. i'm not saying its perfectly balanced but why have the perk if your going to cancel out its usefulness? if they took out the advantages of the perks they would be meaningless. fundamentally its not a "problem with the code" its a perk which gives an advantage to the holder. so do you not like that this perk is useful and gives an advantage to the holder? seems like you dont like the perk system then
 
[quote name='Trakan']I understand what you're saying, and I agree that it's bullshit, as I too hate last stand, but what are they supposed to do? What's the point of the perk if they get killed in the time between when they're standing and when they're down? If you could kill them in the transition time the perk would have no purpose.[/QUOTE]

not exactly true, it would still become a factor against snipers that go for body shots to where you fall behind cover and they would still have just as much chance for you to kill them as they have for you if they took away that delay that gives them the cheap kills. the only difference is that they will not be able to make you waste a couple of shots while they are falling and even potentially cause you to have to reload and give them a basically free kill there too. i admit i use it to offset others using it now with a couple of my classes, i have really grown tired of being killed by it since normal deathmatch usually means you have to dump half a clip in a guy that doesn't even have juggernaut on.
 
Eh, maybe 2-3 seconds for them to pull out the pistol, but again, any more than that and the perk would kind of be a waste because most people finish them off by then.

What's really stupid is they made the time you're down in last stand even longer so teammates have the chance to revive you.
 
You are saying that being invincible is what makes last stand useful?

See the problem that I have with what you just said is that fact that your entire stand seems to be based on the invincible part of last stand.

I dont see how just taking out the bullet proofing is somehow making the perk useless. It would still have the same effective to people who could use it.

So lets say that extreme condition had a small flaw that whenever you ran you where immune to bullets, would you also defend that as "being part of its usefulness"? Because if you do that I just think we have to completely different standards to what game balance is.

I think last stand is a fine perk, but I dislike the part where it punishes people for winning against you beacuse lets not forget...you just died. I hate martyrdom but I think its fairly balanced. The grenade out of your ass when you die cant kill me from across the map, nor can it explode any faster when you are running for cover and when it lands next to your feet it doest make a drastic movement.

Without the bullet proofing last stand would still have huge advantages over the attacker.

1. You drop from standing up to a prone position within a second which is enough of a movement to make a lot of people miss.
2. You will most likely have a gun that out classes or rivals whoever is attacking you.
3. You are able to get healed and carry on like nothing happened.

Those 3 alone make last stand a great perk...why do you also need invincibility?
 
I think last stand should at least be taken out of hardcore matches. Since the regular team deathmatch games aren't as realistic I think that it's ok in those games...
Then again, this brings me back to COD4 and the claymore being way toned down from the real life version. Anyone here who's actually seen a claymore explode would agree with me that they would make a bigger explosion than what's being shown in the game. Of course this is why it is just a game.
 
[quote name='IAmTheBiggestInuyashaFan']not exactly true, it would still become a factor against snipers that go for body shots to where you fall behind cover and they would still have just as much chance for you to kill them as they have for you if they took away that delay that gives them the cheap kills. the only difference is that they will not be able to make you waste a couple of shots while they are falling and even potentially cause you to have to reload and give them a basically free kill there too. i admit i use it to offset others using it now with a couple of my classes, i have really grown tired of being killed by it since normal deathmatch usually means you have to dump half a clip in a guy that doesn't even have juggernaut on.[/quote]


Exactly. Last stand can stay 100% the same, just take out the bullet proofing to make it balanced.


I just dont believe that in death you should somehow become just as deadly and a lot of the times more deadly then you just were at 100% health and a primary gun.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']You are saying that being invincible is what makes last stand useful?

See the problem that I have with what you just said is that fact that your entire stand seems to be based on the invincible part of last stand.

I dont see how just taking out the bullet proofing is somehow making the perk useless. It would still have the same effective to people who could use it.

So lets say that extreme condition had a small flaw that whenever you ran you where immune to bullets, would you also defend that as "being part of its usefulness"? Because if you do that I just think we have to completely different standards to what game balance is.[/quote]

yeah, i'm saying that is a feature of having last stand on. just like bullet proofing while running would be a feature. bottom line is it adds to the usefulness. I'm not saying thats the only thing thats good about last stand.
traken had it right about what would happen if you got rid of the infulnerble fall.

but part of my original point was what good does it do to complain in some forum about the problem? for now thats the game, just change how you play. the true balance is the balance where people tend tward the perks that are better, giving a balance becuase more people will use the better ones. perfectly balancing the perks is almost impossible for a developer.

but wolve, why take it out of hardcore? because its not realistic? i think its pretty realistic to keep shooting if you were shot in the gut, or leg.
 
[quote name='Ow3n']...[/quote]

Oh so you are one of those guys. Why didnt you say so, I could have just ignored you from the beginning. :roll:
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']You are saying that being invincible is what makes last stand useful?

See the problem that I have with what you just said is that fact that your entire stand seems to be based on the invincible part of last stand.

I dont see how just taking out the bullet proofing is somehow making the perk useless. It would still have the same effective to people who could use it.

So lets say that extreme condition had a small flaw that whenever you ran you where immune to bullets, would you also defend that as "being part of its usefulness"? Because if you do that I just think we have to completely different standards to what game balance is.

I think last stand is a fine perk, but I dislike the part where it punishes people for winning against you beacuse lets not forget...you just died. I hate martyrdom but I think its fairly balanced. The grenade out of your ass when you die cant kill me from across the map, nor can it explode any faster when you are running for cover and when it lands next to your feet it doest make a drastic movement.

Without the bullet proofing last stand would still have huge advantages over the attacker.

1. You drop from standing up to a prone position within a second which is enough of a movement to make a lot of people miss.
2. You will most likely have a gun that out classes or rivals whoever is attacking you.
3. You are able to get healed and carry on like nothing happened.

Those 3 alone make last stand a great perk...why do you also need invincibility?[/quote]

Your whole argument is that you want to be able to kill them in those couple of seconds when they're invulnerable between standing and laying down, right? If not, I don't get what you're trying to say. If you take that out and you're able to kill them before they even actually go in to last stand, it makes the perk useless. If you make it take more than 2-3 seconds before they actually get to pull out their pistol, they will likely get killed before actually being able to use the perk. Again, making it useless.

They can't change it really without completely nerfing it.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Oh so you are one of those guys. Why didnt you say so, I could have just ignored you from the beginning. :roll:[/quote]
dude whatever, you dont have to get insulting just because I have a different point of view.
 
[quote name='Ow3n']dude whatever, you dont have to get insulting just because I have a different point of view.[/quote]

Its not that you have a different opinion that is the problem.

But once you come into a forum on a specific topic and then ask them why they are talking about said topic. Its hard to take you seriously. Your basic standpoint seems to be "whatever the developer hands us is the correct way."

You cant speak to a person who thinks that a game is 100% glitch free and can not be improved and any problem with the game is strictly user related. There is nothing anyone can say to you because your response will always be "no its a tactical problem you have to adjust." When we are clearly not talking about tactics or skill.

My only other question to you would be if you think Madden is the best football game to date.
 
Im starting to slowly hate this game. Today alone... I shot a guy hiding behind a wall, where i could only see his head. I shot where his body would be and the wall blocked my bullet, yet he was able to shoot back at me through the same wall and kill me.

I shot a guy with my pistol, clear right in the center of his body, yet he shot me dead and nothing happened to him.

There was a guy in last stand about 5 feet in front of me, i shot him with a sniper rifle right in the leg and nothing, he ends up shooting me and i die.

Tanks are really gay, i wish they never added them.

Very few maps i do like.

Im just mainly tired of all the bullshit that happens. When i shoot a guy and there is no way i could have missed, yet they dont get hit. Thats really frustrating.
 
I fail to see the problem with Second Chance or how it is "invincible". If I equip the perk, most people kill my character before I can even fire off a shot. It would be better if there were a stumbling or, say, falling animation where the Second Chance user could see the position of their enemy. So, when they land, they could have at least a chance to fire off a round.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Its not that you have a different opinion that is the problem.

But once you come into a forum on a specific topic and then ask them why they are talking about said topic. Its hard to take you seriously. Your basic standpoint seems to be "whatever the developer hands us is the correct way."

You cant speak to a person who thinks that a game is 100% glitch free and can not be improved and any problem with the game is strictly user related. There is nothing anyone can say to you because your response will always be "no its a tactical problem you have to adjust." When we are clearly not talking about tactics or skill.

My only other question to you would be if you think Madden is the best football game to date.[/quote]

I dont think the game is 100% or the correct way, i just think its the only thing we have. We already discussed the issue with taking out the invulnerable fall, I said it would take away the perk, you disagreed and i moved on to my other point; that complaining wont change it and i would rather discuss something that will be useful. at least move on instead of going in circles about last stand.

Haha, i dont know about madden. i havent gotten into a sports game since the nes.
 
[quote name='Trakan']Your whole argument is that you want to be able to kill them in those couple of seconds when they're invulnerable between standing and laying down, right? If not, I don't get what you're trying to say. If you take that out and you're able to kill them before they even actually go in to last stand, it makes the perk useless. If you make it take more than 2-3 seconds before they actually get to pull out their pistol, they will likely get killed before actually being able to use the perk. Again, making it useless.

They can't change it really without completely nerfing it.[/quote]

What? No. I never said I wanted to be able to kill them while the animation is happening. You came up with 2-3 seconds before they pull out their pistol not me.

Ok let me try to clear this up.

Lets say it takes 5 seconds for the animation to complete. In that time the last stand user is immune to bullets. During that time that he is immune to bullets he is still able to fire at his attacker.

All I am saying is that during the same 5 second immunity to the last stand user he should not be allowed to fire his weapon. You can cover this up how ever you want to....I would suggest a animation that pulls out the fire arm. That way they both start out being able to damage each other at the same time.


I think where we are getting hung up at is this. If you ever look at kill cams of last stand death you will notice that on you screen the last stand unser still falling down into the last stand animation.....but on his screen its instantaneous and he is able to get 2 or 3 shots off while still being immune to bullet fire. This is the same as when you watch a kill cam of yourself looking skyward or something when you clearly was not.

The game has that weird visual lag that shows up from time to time.







[quote name='Ow3n']I dont think the game is 100% or the correct way, i just think its the only thing we have. We already discussed the issue with taking out the invulnerable fall, I said it would take away the perk, you disagreed and i moved on to my other point; that complaining wont change it and i would rather discuss something that will be useful. at least move on instead of going in circles about last stand.

Haha, i dont know about madden. i havent gotten into a sports game since the nes.[/quote]

But last stand is what we were talking about? I have no idea what we are talking about anymore.

Anyway. How about this, water under the bridge? Cool?
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']
Lets say it takes 5 seconds for the animation to complete. In that time the last stand user is immune to bullets. During that time that he is immune to bullets he is still able to fire at his attacker.

I think where we are getting hung up at is this. If you ever look at kill cams of last stand death you will notice that on you screen the last stand unser still falling down into the last stand animation.....but on his screen its instantaneous and he is able to get 2 or 3 shots off while still being immune to bullet fire. This is the same as when you watch a kill cam of yourself looking skyward or something when you clearly was not.

Anyway. How about this, water under the bridge? Cool?[/quote]

yeah totally cool! dont worry about it. yeah i was getting hung up on that point. i dont play regular so i never see a kill cam, I always thought it was if i can shoot them, they can shoot me, because i just thought the delay until you get your gun out is the same as the invulnerability. sorry for giving you the third, you make a great point.
 
As Ender said, I too enjoy doing the baiting of enemy soldiers as long as my teammates don't kill him... That being said trying to prevent his own teammates from killing him is another story, as they don't seem to listen as well.
 
well i think i had one of the most boring games i have ever played on this game. it was downfall and we had the side that has the glitch on it, so i decide to get in and camp it and only kill people trying to jump in. i end the game at 14-0 which i hated every minute of since the only reason i was in there was to prevent anyone from the other team from doing it. the 2 guys in a clan came there trying to get in the glitch that many freaking times! i let about 10 or so kills simply run past since they weren't actually trying to glitch, but wow was that extremely boring. downfall has gone from one of my favorite maps to one of my least favorite maps because of this now.
 
I'm beginning to think that this game has some sort of feature that can sense when I'm about to give up on the game completely and gives me a 24-3 round. I was struggling hardcore and about to turn off my console and then I get put in an amazing game.

Of course getting that amazing round was kind of cheap. I've decided that Upheval is the new Bog in terms of having a completely unbalanced spawn sides. If I'm on the German team we win around 8/10 times simply due to opening round grenade tosses. I've started tossing grenades across the map at the beginning of rounds and apparently it caught on because when we started the match I threw my grenade only to notice four others sailing across the middle building with it. We started the round 50-0 and went on to win the game 750-243.
 
Wow a new "get under the map" glitch has been found in Downfall. Man i maxed out all my weapons and im on level 64. Ive been using a machine gun with scope and have been doing pretty good.
 
[quote name='The 7th Number']Wow a new "get under the map" glitch has been found in Downfall. Man i maxed out all my weapons and im on level 64. Ive been using a machine gun with scope and have been doing pretty good.[/QUOTE]

yep, you can get under the map on downfall, out of the map on hangar, above the map on castle, up in a couple of trees on cliffside (ones you can't just normally jump to), on top of the building on roundhouse, and out of the map on asylum, and up on top of a house on upheval. it is sad that i learned these glitches to prevent glitchers from doing them, there are only a few of them that can heavily affect the game though, most of them are a waste and take too long to do anyways.

at least the glitches in call of duty 4 were basically a waste since you could easily be killed yourself or you didn't get any kills out of them either. the only one on call of duty 4 that could really do anything was the one on showdown to get underneath the map and that was so insanely hard to do that no one could ever do it in a normal game.
 
I've just realized that no matter how good you are, if you're on a team full of noobs... you're going to get your ass kicked lol..

Seriously I don't bother to play unless my team is on now, haha.
 
[quote name='cmart05']I've just realized that no matter how good you are, if you're on a team full of noobs... you're going to get your ass kicked lol..

Seriously I don't bother to play unless my team is on now, haha.[/quote]

Yeah a few time last night i went 21-2, or 17-6 and lost because someone on my team had 4 - 20, or something similar.
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']Official Double XP week is Dec. 5-12. Looks like it's the same "Officer's Club" that was available this weekend.[/quote]


It would be nice if they added at least Hardcore Team Deathmatch to the Double XP list.
 
[quote name='IAmTheBiggestInuyashaFan']yep, you can get under the map on downfall, out of the map on hangar, above the map on castle, up in a couple of trees on cliffside (ones you can't just normally jump to), on top of the building on roundhouse, and out of the map on asylum, and up on top of a house on upheval. it is sad that i learned these glitches to prevent glitchers from doing them, there are only a few of them that can heavily affect the game though, most of them are a waste and take too long to do anyways.

at least the glitches in call of duty 4 were basically a waste since you could easily be killed yourself or you didn't get any kills out of them either. the only one on call of duty 4 that could really do anything was the one on showdown to get underneath the map and that was so insanely hard to do that no one could ever do it in a normal game.[/quote]

the castle glitch is pretty funny... i'll probably never try to use it in an actual match though, it seems pretty poinless to float 30ft above everything if you're still out in the open
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']Official Double XP week is Dec. 5-12. Looks like it's the same "Officer's Club" that was available this weekend.[/quote]

Not too excited about this precedent, seeing as all of COD 4's Double XP weekends were for everybody (except when the new maps came out).

So if I paid $20 more, I could get more experience and technically have better weaponry than somebody who did not?

Leave it to our friends at Activision.
 
[quote name='BL00DW0LF']the castle glitch is pretty funny... i'll probably never try to use it in an actual match though, it seems pretty poinless to float 30ft above everything if you're still out in the open[/QUOTE]

not in hardcore, no killcam and 1-3 shot kills makes it very useful since not many people think to look up.
 
I make sure to report any cheaters/glitchers when I get killed by out of the map players. And not just player reviews either. I hate that crap.
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']Official Double XP week is Dec. 5-12. Looks like it's the same "Officer's Club" that was available this weekend.[/QUOTE]

If that's the official one, what the heck have we been playing so far? And Rudy, anyone can get into the Double XP lobby, you just have to be in a party with or join in progress with someone who has the CE.
 
[quote name='Ziv']I make sure to report any cheaters/glitchers when I get killed by out of the map players. And not just player reviews either. I hate that crap.[/QUOTE]

i can't stand it either. like i said, the only reason i even glitched was to stop the other team from doing it. it was easy enough to tell who was trying since the other people wouldn't attempt to do the trick to get under the map, so i just simply killed the ones trying to do it. i didn't even shoot one shot until i saw them doing it and then i would drop them every time they tried, it is boring, but at least it made it fair for everyone else that wasn't trying to glitch.
 
Shit, I feel inferior. I haven't gotten to play this game much, and when I have had gaming time, I've used it on NBA 2K9 and NHL 09 league stuff, Gears (which I surprisingly prefer to COD this go-around), and now Guitar Hero: World Tour which Ralphy let me borrow. On COD, I'm at like 7.5 hours and level 26. That was mostly in the first 2-3 days.

John, I think he said "wow" because that's about twice as long as it would take most people. Not knocking ya... just saying that may be the case rather than him suggesting that you play too much or something.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top