Game Informer: Multiple Sources confirm new HD console at E3 for Nintendo

[quote name='Salamando3000']Nintendo also had this little thing.[/QUOTE]

It was rad chilis with Wind Waker. Tingle Tuner was, ultimately, little more than a gimmick but it was oh so hilarious and it did provide a way to burn away those excess rupees post treasure map hunt.

[quote name='Dead of Knight']NOA is the one who has abandoned the hardcore, not NCL, not NOE (for the most part).[/QUOTE]
Agreed. NCL is god tier and NOE does a damn good job considering how many regions they have to localize for. I know for a fact it was Reggie's job at one point to determine which games to bring to America and I'm sure he still has final say. His choices are far too conservative for my tastes. Regarding S&P 2, according to several posters on GAF it was a test by NOA to see whether it would sell enough to make Reginleiv worth localizing; it failed that test thanks to shitty marketing. I'm thinking the only way we will even see DQX is if Iwata himself makes a big push for it.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Don't know if it'll be backwards compatible. I'm guessing it won't, because Nintendo's pretty terrible with that.[/QUOTE]

Really?

GB->GBA
GBA->DS
DS->3DS
GC->Wii

I think they're the company with the best record of backwards compatibility.

[quote name='spmahn']Nintendo is going to justify their existence by pointing to Wii's enormous sales figures, which itself is a fallacy, since the vast majority of the people who bought it had fun with Bowling for a month, never bought another game, and then stopped playing shortly after. Most (all) of these people will have zero interest in buying an upgraded Wii, and the majority of them have moved onto other stuff like Angry Birds or Farmville anyway, so Nintendo is going to have to start from square one in finding an audience for their new console.[/QUOTE]

It seems funny to me that people who arguably have "moved on" from Wii Bowling to Angry Birds/Farmville (if that is an actual thing) now won't be expected to move on to Wii2. Won't this demographic, again, if it is one, be more likely to go, "Oooh look at the shiny new Wii2! HD BOWLING PLZ." It's like saying people who are into the newest things won't be into . . . the newest thing.

[quote name='spmahn']If Nintendo wants to compete in this next generation, they will have no choice but to apologize to their fanbase that they abandoned these last two generations, and the third parties they have alienated, and make games that people want to play, and appeal to different audiences, no more of this one size fits all crap where every game has to appeal to everyone ages 2 - 100.[/QUOTE]

Oh, so many sour grapes. Instead of fretting late nights by the phone waiting for the apology they apparently owe me I'll be playing games.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Here was the Wii's problem, and still is:

Third Parties were never on board. The idea that they abandoned the Wii is a joke because they were never on board to begin with. The only company that got on board with the Wii was Ubisoft, and that never really materialized into much besides Red Steel 2. But even that was poorly marketed. The only company that hopped on the bandwagon was Activision after Guitar Hero 3 was in the Top 10 for NPD's on Wii for 10 months or so.[/quote]

Ubisoft also made a Wii-specific Prince Of Persia game that was pretty good and brought over the No More Heroes games.

Beyond that, you got maybe 1 or 2 hardcore games from each company besides Sega with Sonic, but Nintendo basically owns Sonic now. Capcom gave us RE4 as a test, but followed it up with 2 lightgun shooters. Third parties never supported the Wii, that's the issue, and that's probably why we'll probably see a WiiHD sooner than later.
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Capcom also made the unappreciated Zack & Wiki and brought over Tatsunoko vs Capcom when no one really thought that was going to happen.

The problem I see was that the issue was on both sides. While you can claim that third party developers didn't always bring their A game to the Wii, hard-core gamers also didn't support the games that were released. It seems like a lot of these games that were released didn't sell all that well. That's probably because early on, hard-core gamers decided to abandon the console because of what they perceived were the Wii's shortcomings. (Lack of HD, the unconventional controllers, disappointing online features.)

Personally, I didn't have a problem with the lack of HD, since many games still look pretty good (and most look superior than the PS2 games I also play). I also never really had a problem with the controllers themselves, and usually when there is a problem, it is more about how the game implements the controllers than the controllers themselves. Maybe the hardcore gamers are too set in their ways with the gamepad, which has been the standard form factor since the NES and really hasn't changed all that much over the years.

Maybe the combination of the growing pains of a new control scheme with the perception that the console was mostly selling to the casual market caused some developers not to want to play in this sandbox. It is unfortunate, since I think the controls lend themselves well to FPSs, since the control scheme is closer to a mouse/keyboard scheme on the PC, which is what I prefer.
 
I didn't have a problem with HD either. The only time I ever commented on the badness of the Wii's graphics were when I started up the original No More Heroes. I also never had a problem with controls on the Wii with the exception of Tomb Raider Anniversary, which I sold. If a game's controls don't work, or are wonky, it's usually the first thing I notice, especially if I can't get used to them.

Metroid Prime 3's Controls > All FPS's on PS3/360 without KB/M support

As for online play, I wish Nintendo had tied it to the Wii system code, which would've saved a lot of hassle. I also wish some game saves weren't locked to the console itself.

As far as perception goes, you can change the perception of something, it's never too late to do it. However, it's hard to do it by yourself. You need others to support you in your cause. Without third parties to support Nintendo this gen they had to crank out a lot of software they usually wouldn't do, and in turn the hardcore went 'that's all Nintendo does nowadays is pump out sequels.' It's the only thing they could do without the support of others.
 
[quote name='TheLongshot']I also never really had a problem with the controllers themselves, and usually when there is a problem, it is more about how the game implements the controllers than the controllers themselves. Maybe the hardcore gamers are too set in their ways with the gamepad, which has been the standard form factor since the NES and really hasn't changed all that much over the years.[/QUOTE]

You have a bingo.

I've been thinking a lot lately about how great the split chuk+mote control scheme is so damn comfortable. After playing a few games of The Show on a DS3 my hands get seriously cramped.

The main problem is exactly as you stated. Too many developers seemed to look at the controller and screamed, "NOT ENOUGH BUTTONS!" and then proceeded to map controls to every button on the thing, including the '1' and '2' buttons, which are really best suited for calling up maps and other auxiliary commands.

I've been playing Wii Sports Resort lately as Pilotwings Resort has gotten me reinterested in the Island Flyover game. Unfortunately, this is one of those examples of poor control layout. You're supposed to hold the wiimote like a paper plane, but then all of the fun controls are on the buttons up top. So I have to choose between flying properly (Perfectly level flying is the supreme challenge of the scale-model pilot) and shooting flares into crowds and busting up babies balloons.
 
Maybe it'll be a Classic Controller but split?

Left: Analog stick, D-pad, L1/L2, Start/Select/Home
Right: Analog stick, 4 buttons, R1/R2
 
[quote name='spmahn']If Nintendo wants to compete in this next generation, they will have no choice but to apologize to their fanbase that they abandoned these last two generations, and the third parties they have alienated, and make games that people want to play, and appeal to different audiences, no more of this one size fits all crap where every game has to appeal to everyone ages 2 - 100.[/QUOTE]

They started out that way with the Wii (although I think it's gotten fairly strong as its gone along), but last gen they had the Gamecube.

[quote name='KingBroly']The only company that got on board with the Wii was Ubisoft, and that never really materialized into much besides Red Steel 2.[/quote]

And Rabbids Go Home! A handful more games-No More Heroes 2 is awesome. Namco's The Munchables is awesome...umm...

Beyond that, you got maybe 1 or 2 hardcore games from each company besides Sega with Sonic, but Nintendo basically owns Sonic now. Capcom gave us RE4 as a test, but followed it up with 2 lightgun shooters. Third parties never supported the Wii, that's the issue, and that's probably why we'll probably see a WiiHD sooner than later.
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Which...yeah, you said with your 1-2 games per company. Sega gave us Sonic Colors (haven't played it yet, but own it and supposedly good). Aaaaaand...hmm.

Even fairly casual gamers I know who always buy only Nintendo have in one case bought a Playstation 3 instead, or started with a Wii and bought another console after a while.

[quote name='cochesecochese']Agreed. NCL is god tier and NOE does a damn good job considering how many regions they have to localize for. I know for a fact it was Reggie's job at one point to determine which games to bring to America and I'm sure he still has final say. His choices are far too conservative for my tastes. [/quote]

What else could have been brought over? I'm not aware of anything (am I about to get mad, learning of a pile of awesome games I'm missing? :lol:) Well, there is Sakaguchi's game which hasn't made it yet, but I keep assuming it will...I mean it would be insane if it didn't. (Where's Working Designs when you need them...)

Regarding S&P 2, according to several posters on GAF it was a test by NOA to see whether it would sell enough to make Reginleiv worth localizing; it failed that test thanks to shitty marketing. I'm thinking the only way we will even see DQX is if Iwata himself makes a big push for it.
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Don't know what Reginleiv is, but I hated Sin and Punishment 2. Thought it was pretty much garbage, graphically and gameplay.

[quote name='theflicker']Really?

GB->GBA
GBA->DS
DS->3DS
GC->Wii

I think they're the company with the best record of backwards compatibility.[/quote]

And I think they're at best tied with a bad lot so far. That's not fair maybe since Microsoft doesn't have a third console yet, though from how seriously they take it on PC (which I suppose you could count in this discussion) I think there's a good shot they'll take it semi-seriously on consoles.

You'll note the huge problem with all the systems you listed-they're never backwards compatible more than one generation. And the NES, SNES, N64, and Gamecube had zero.

"GB->GBA"

This was cool, and they included hardware to do it...but it was dropped from the DS.

"GBA->DS"

Also cool, but the writing was on the wall given that they dropped Gameboy support. Sure enough, they've not only dropped GBA support, they dropped it midway through the DS' lifecycle!

"DS->3DS"

Maybe this'll stick around, maybe not...but given their terrible track record, we shouldn't expect compatibility more than one generation.

"GC->Wii"

This is meaningless. The Wii *IS* a Gamecube. Given their terrible track record, we can expect a true current/next gen console to dump compatibility.

While I guess you think those examples are impressive-I think the exact opposite. All we have is compatibility with a single generation on the handhelds, and then its dropped. That's unacceptable, and unimpressive.

Let me play Gameboy games in my 3DS and I'll be impressed.

It seems funny to me that people who arguably have "moved on" from Wii Bowling to Angry Birds/Farmville (if that is an actual thing) now won't be expected to move on to Wii2. Won't this demographic, again, if it is one, be more likely to go, "Oooh look at the shiny new Wii2! HD BOWLING PLZ."
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I seriously doubt it. These people aren't in to real games...I mean it's like saying someone likes movies because they watch clips of some guy riding a tricycle on Youtube every once in a while. They get cheap/free stuff on their phone and they're happy. They don't "get" buying dedicated hardware. They don't "get" paying $20, 30, 40, 50 for a game, or sometimes even paying at all.

Maybe with luck and great marketing they'll randomly go on to another Nintendo thing, but I think Nintendo needs to somehow attract people who actually like games, and continue to get as many casual people as will go along. It's tough...particularly since so many people who love games were idiotic about the Gamecube, and threw around "Kiddie" all the time, because they're retarded.

I don't know what you do about that. Luck. Marketing? Good third party support? If Nintendo continues a focus on real games, I wish them all the luck in the world, because I miss them and I miss Sega and other real game companies doing game systems.
 
Wow, this is gonna be sooo cool, can't wait at all :) haha i love it that it's THE time for consoles to switch GEN's .. it's already happening and only more OWNAGE to come :)
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']And I think they're at best tied with a bad lot so far. That's not fair maybe since Microsoft doesn't have a third console yet, though from how seriously they take it on PC (which I suppose you could count in this discussion) I think there's a good shot they'll take it semi-seriously on consoles.

You'll note the huge problem with all the systems you listed-they're never backwards compatible more than one generation. And the NES, SNES, N64, and Gamecube had zero.

"GB->GBA"

This was cool, and they included hardware to do it...but it was dropped from the DS.

"GBA->DS"

Also cool, but the writing was on the wall given that they dropped Gameboy support. Sure enough, they've not only dropped GBA support, they dropped it midway through the DS' lifecycle!

"DS->3DS"

Maybe this'll stick around, maybe not...but given their terrible track record, we shouldn't expect compatibility more than one generation.

"GC->Wii"

This is meaningless. The Wii *IS* a Gamecube. Given their terrible track record, we can expect a true current/next gen console to dump compatibility.

While I guess you think those examples are impressive-I think the exact opposite. All we have is compatibility with a single generation on the handhelds, and then its dropped. That's unacceptable, and unimpressive.

Let me play Gameboy games in my 3DS and I'll be impressed.[/QUOTE]

Eh, you're changing your terms. You said that Nintendo wouldn't have backwards compatibility because they're "pretty terrible with that". They've shown a history of backwards compatible hardware. It's pretty ridiculous to expect to be able to plug your Power Pad and ROB into your Wii2.

Let me know how well your UMDs play on the NGP this fall.

[quote name='Wolfpup']I seriously doubt it. These people aren't in to real games...I mean it's like saying someone likes movies because they watch clips of some guy riding a tricycle on Youtube every once in a while. They get cheap/free stuff on their phone and they're happy. They don't "get" buying dedicated hardware. They don't "get" paying $20, 30, 40, 50 for a game, or sometimes even paying at all.[/QUOTE]

I think the same market that upgrades its iPhones and iPads each year will be interested in a new Wii after 6 years.
 
[quote name='theflicker']I think the same market that upgrades its iPhones and iPads each year will be interested in a new Wii after 6 years.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the sentiment, but it goes well beyond Apple zealots.

I'd wager most Wii owners will be interested in however Nintendo "refreshes" the Wii. All Nintendo has to do is give it the same novelty on launch that the Wii had. It sounds like they have that. And they'll have one decent first-party title on launch to feature that novelty. (Wii Sports was HUGE. HUGE.)

Anyone who thinks Nintendo won't sell the dick out of their nextgen console hasn't paid attention to Nintendo in the post-GCN era. They don't waste money or development time going after ideas that don't succeed. The only way I could see them screwing it up is if they don't price as aggressively as they did the Wii on launch -- their repeat console customers might expect that of them.

And don't bring up the 3DS, the pricing there makes sense. We're talking moving consoles, not handhelds.
 
They should make every NES and SNES title available for VC download on day 1 of the Wii2's launch. That would be instant sales to tons of hardcore fans.
 
[quote name='theflicker']I think the same market that upgrades its iPhones and iPads each year will be interested in a new Wii after 6 years.[/QUOTE]
I think you have the markets confused.
The folks who buy a Wii may be looking to save money with a cheaper console option. "Cheaper" is a category Apple products do not fall into...
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']They should make every NES and SNES title available for VC download on day 1 of the Wii2's launch. That would be instant sales to tons of hardcore fans.[/QUOTE]

And a unicorn, they should include a unicorn with every console.
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']They should make every NES and SNES title available for VC download on day 1 of the Wii2's launch. That would be instant sales to tons of hardcore fans.[/QUOTE]

HAHA, this is delightful. Let me introduce you to the Virtual Console on the Wii. Trust me, it doesn't move console units. In fact, it doesn't move at all. It just sits there, tethered to the machine, rusting away.

Also, let's not even discuss the logistics of getting *every* title to run in emulation, let's just giggle for a bit.
 
[quote name='dothog']I agree with the sentiment, but it goes well beyond Apple zealots.

I'd wager most Wii owners will be interested in however Nintendo "refreshes" the Wii. All Nintendo has to do is give it the same novelty on launch that the Wii had. It sounds like they have that. And they'll have one decent first-party title on launch to feature that novelty. (Wii Sports was HUGE. HUGE.)

Anyone who thinks Nintendo won't sell the dick out of their nextgen console hasn't paid attention to Nintendo in the post-GCN era. They don't waste money or development time going after ideas that don't succeed. The only way I could see them screwing it up is if they don't price as aggressively as they did the Wii on launch -- their repeat console customers might expect that of them.

And don't bring up the 3DS, the pricing there makes sense. We're talking moving consoles, not handhelds.[/QUOTE]

The issue with the iPhone / Wii upgrade comparison is that people use their phones for EVERYTHING, from morning to noon to night. If all people did on their phones was make phone calls, they would never upgrade, their would be no need to. With the Wii on the other hand, people have fun playing bowling, but that's about it. There is no emotional attachment to it, the way people have to their cell phone, which is why I think Nintendo is going to have a very hard time convincing the casual people they courted with the Wii to buy this new one. Add in the fact that this very same market has now been trained to accept the fact that they can get equally fun and addictive games on their phone for less than $5, and I think Nintendo will have a very difficult, if not impossible time getting these people to come back.
 
[quote name='spmahn']The issue with the iPhone / Wii upgrade comparison is that people use their phones for EVERYTHING, from morning to noon to night. If all people did on their phones was make phone calls, they would never upgrade, their would be no need to. With the Wii on the other hand, people have fun playing bowling, but that's about it. There is no emotional attachment to it, the way people have to their cell phone, which is why I think Nintendo is going to have a very hard time convincing the casual people they courted with the Wii to buy this new one. Add in the fact that this very same market has now been trained to accept the fact that they can get equally fun and addictive games on their phone for less than $5, and I think Nintendo will have a very difficult, if not impossible time getting these people to come back.[/QUOTE]

The smartphone market and Wii market do not overlap that much. Let's assume they do, though. Those people have had their Wii for what, 3 or 4 years? You think they'll sneeze at paying $300 for a new Nintendo console after dropping $200 + contract for a new phone every year or two?

It's beside the point. Nintendo has brand loyalty with a new set of families and casual gamers. I know lots of non-gaming families in my neighborhood who have a Wii and just flat-out *like* it. If Nintendo comes along with a feature that hooks people the way Wiimote + Wii Sports did, those people will upgrade without batting an eye. I'm certain of it.

Again, gaming nerds, I know you can't justify the loyalty based on the number of available 3rd party titles or quality of the 1st party titles or Gamecube 1.5 or whatever the shit. I understand that. These people -- the vast majority of Wii owners -- don't care about that argument.

I'm thinking my wife is closer to the typical Wii owner than me or any other CAG. She likes that it's small, that it doesn't sound like a lawnmower in the A/V cabinet (hello, DC and 360), that it has all the things she likes (photo library, Netflix, occasional Wii Sports/Fit) in a cute profile. If there's a new Nintendo that comes out, and if it keeps an attractive profile and has some nifty features, she will ask me to buy it, I'm certain of that. She and the kids are just used to it being around. They like it.

Nintendo won over a lot of people with the Wii. There's no way they're going to blow that loyalty. They're smarter than MS and Sony by far, they don't fuck up masterfully in the way that MS and Sony do.
 
[quote name='Vader582']I think you have the markets confused.
The folks who buy a Wii may be looking to save money with a cheaper console option. "Cheaper" is a category Apple products do not fall into...[/QUOTE]

And cheaper products can't be purchased by people with lots of money?

People who like new tech will be interested in buying the Wii2.
 
[quote name='theflicker']And cheaper products can't be purchased by people with lots of money?

People who like new tech will be interested in buying the Wii2.[/QUOTE]
It's a possibility but not a given.
I want a new iPhone but have no interest in the Wii Too, at this point.
The Wii is successful because of its price point not in-spite of it.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I didn't have a problem with HD either. The only time I ever commented on the badness of the Wii's graphics were when I started up the original No More Heroes. I also never had a problem with controls on the Wii with the exception of Tomb Raider Anniversary, which I sold. If a game's controls don't work, or are wonky, it's usually the first thing I notice, especially if I can't get used to them. [/quote]

Well, NMH seems to be the graphical style they decided to go with. I agree, not the most beautiful game in the world.

As for online play, I wish Nintendo had tied it to the Wii system code, which would've saved a lot of hassle. I also wish some game saves weren't locked to the console itself.
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Not to mention the Wiiware store, which isn't very user-friendly. I'm hoping that's one of the big improvements with the new console (as well as being able to move your games, like the 3DS is allowing.)

As far as perception goes, you can change the perception of something, it's never too late to do it. However, it's hard to do it by yourself. You need others to support you in your cause. Without third parties to support Nintendo this gen they had to crank out a lot of software they usually wouldn't do, and in turn the hardcore went 'that's all Nintendo does nowadays is pump out sequels.' It's the only thing they could do without the support of others.
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This is a good point. People complain about the lack of risks in game titles, but the 1st party games had to carry the console. I wonder if we would have had a new Goldeneye game if it weren't for the weak 3rd party support.

[quote name='KingBroly']Maybe it'll be a Classic Controller but split?

Left: Analog stick, D-pad, L1/L2, Start/Select/Home
Right: Analog stick, 4 buttons, R1/R2[/QUOTE]

I saw a similar idea in Game Informer when they were talking about future controller ideas.

[quote name='Wolfpup']Which...yeah, you said with your 1-2 games per company. Sega gave us Sonic Colors (haven't played it yet, but own it and supposedly good). Aaaaaand...hmm.[/quote]

"Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing" is also pretty good.

You'll note the huge problem with all the systems you listed-they're never backwards compatible more than one generation. And the NES, SNES, N64, and Gamecube had zero.
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Expecting more than one generation of compatibility is silly, particularly since keeping compatibility limits what you can do with a console, which is why more often than not console-makers break compatibility. Hell, Sony was never able to get it quite right with making the PS3 compatible with PS2 games, not to mention the cost of the additional hardware didn't really make it worth it for them, so they dropped it.
 
Interesting. Seems poor timing what with the 3DS launch too though. Just really afraid they are splitting their focus too much. Love backwards compatibility though.

Who thinks they'll pull another Twilight Princess and delay Skyward Sword for a double system release again?
 
[quote name='Vader582']It's a possibility but not a given.
I want a new iPhone but have no interest in the Wii Too, at this point.
The Wii is successful because of its price point not in-spite of it.[/QUOTE]

complete rubbish. You act like people only bought wiis because it was a cheaper alternative to the xbox and ps3. At the height of the wii success, the price point didn't matter. Yes, as the product cycle winds down now, they have to keep dropping the price but the wii "success" has been long established already.

____

the more I think about it, the more I can see a E3 or later announcement of the Wii2 for deployment next year. If you remember, Reggie said they'd talk Wii successor if the installed base hit 45M units. Right now it's probably at 35 so a price drop would bring in all the laggards. They know that announcing a Wii 2 won't hurt the sales of the laggards because they were never gonna buy the wii 2 at launch (or 2 -3 years after launch) anyway.

The hardcore early adopters will wait for the wii 2 while the casual consumers will snap up the wii at $150 and $125 and $99.... as nintendo phases out wii game development. They'll follow the ps2 model and hope the wii keeps selling as a cheaper alternative. Allow companies to release dumbed down versions of games for the wii and allow the shovelware developers to keep releasing shit for it.
 
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[quote name='dothog']The smartphone market and Wii market do not overlap that much. Let's assume they do, though. Those people have had their Wii for what, 3 or 4 years? You think they'll sneeze at paying $300 for a new Nintendo console after dropping $200 + contract for a new phone every year or two? [/QUOTE]

Yes, they will sneeze, because they will say, well this Wii thing is cool and all, but I hardly even use the one I have, and this one plays bowling just fine, so what's the point of upgrading.

For the casual gamers, it has nothing to do with brand loyalty at all. It's that the Wii was fun and hip for a while, then it cooled off and most of those people got over it and moved on to something else. If Nintendo wants those peiple coming back, they're going to have to bring something new to the table, and it's going to have to be something substantial.
 
Dude, they're giving them something else. Nintendo isn't just slapping HD on a Wii with the same controller and games. They've got a new feature, it will move units.

You're actually a pretty good troll, you've got me for 3 replies. Well done.
 
I think when Wii HD launches, either this year or next, Nintendo's big launch game for it will be Metroid. Call me crazy, but I just think something's brewing there, and I kinda feel there's an artificial desire for one at the moment.

What I want to see, but I doubt it'll happen is the ability to merge your 3DS' friend code and friends list with your Wii HD's friends list for something that is a unified profile.
 
[quote name='dothog']Dude, they're giving them something else. Nintendo isn't just slapping HD on a Wii with the same controller and games. They've got a new feature, it will move units.

You're actually a pretty good troll, you've got me for 3 replies. Well done.[/QUOTE]

he's not trolling. he actually believes that nonsense.
 
[quote name='dothog']Dude, they're giving them something else. Nintendo isn't just slapping HD on a Wii with the same controller and games. They've got a new feature, it will move units.

You're actually a pretty good troll, you've got me for 3 replies. Well done.[/QUOTE]

But that market, as it stands, does not want anything else, they are happy playing bowling every once in a while with their friends, and will not see any need to upgrade, unless Nintendo has something in their bag that appeals to them, and upgraded graphics aren't it because these aren't video game people we are talking about.

As far as software sales go, I've read numerous articles showing that the average Wii owner buys something like only 2 additional games on average. Yes, the Wii did sell a lot of games, but it was the people like us buying them, not the casual crowd that is being discussed.
 
[quote name='confoosious']
complete rubbish. You act like people only bought wiis because it was a cheaper alternative to the xbox and ps3. At the height of the wii success, the price point didn't matter. Yes, as the product cycle winds down now, they have to keep dropping the price but the wii "success" has been long established already.[/QUOTE]
It might be partial rubbish but not complete. I think a lot of parents bought Wiis because of the price point and the family-friendly reputation of Nintendo.
The other guy was arguing that everyone who owns Apple products will buy or be interested in a Wii Too. I'm saying that's not necessarily true, whatever it ends up costing at launch.
 
I see like one person referenced my post. Oh well. I want to hear what SuperPhillip will say to it, since I was responding to him. Very interesting about Reginleiv though. Pity NOA sent Sin and Punishment 2 to die, probably on purpose, so Reggie wouldn't have to localize any more of dem Jap shooters.

I wonder, is Reggie a closet racist?
 
[quote name='confoosious']complete rubbish. You act like people only bought wiis because it was a cheaper alternative to the xbox and ps3. At the height of the wii success, the price point didn't matter.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. Has everyone forgotten when Wiis were going for outrageous prices on eBay? Price point was not an issue.

[quote name='spmahn']Yes, they will sneeze, because they will say, well this Wii thing is cool and all, but I hardly even use the one I have, and this one plays bowling just fine, so what's the point of upgrading.[/QUOTE]

People want new technology. If it's affordable, ALL THE BETTER (how this was even presented as a negative, I don't know).

Did you naysay bluray because dvds were "just fine" too?
 
Who thinks they'll pull another Twilight Princess and delay Skyward Sword for a double system release again?
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Given Zelda's anniversary this year and the interest they have in making it special, I doubt that they will delay it. Now, will they do an upgraded version for the new console? Hard to say.

[quote name='confoosious']complete rubbish. You act like people only bought wiis because it was a cheaper alternative to the xbox and ps3. At the height of the wii success, the price point didn't matter. Yes, as the product cycle winds down now, they have to keep dropping the price but the wii "success" has been long established already.[/quote]

I don't think the price point argument is complete rubbish. It is part of the reason why they have been able to move so many units. The fact that they weren't taking losses while doing it is also an important fact of its overall success.

the more I think about it, the more I can see a E3 or later announcement of the Wii2 for deployment next year. If you remember, Reggie said they'd talk Wii successor if the installed base hit 45M units. Right now it's probably at 35 so a price drop would bring in all the laggards. They know that announcing a Wii 2 won't hurt the sales of the laggards because they were never gonna buy the wii 2 at launch (or 2 -3 years after launch) anyway.
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I still think holiday 2012 would be a good time for it. (I keep forgetting that this is 2011, so I screwed up earlier when I said 2011. I really meant 2012.

[quote name='KingBroly']What I want to see, but I doubt it'll happen is the ability to merge your 3DS' friend code and friends list with your Wii HD's friends list for something that is a unified profile.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it wouldn't shock me at all if that did happen.
 
[quote name='Vader582']It might be partial rubbish but not complete. I think a lot of parents bought Wiis because of the price point and the family-friendly reputation of Nintendo.
The other guy was arguing that everyone who owns Apple products will buy or be interested in a Wii Too. I'm saying that's not necessarily true, whatever it ends up costing at launch.[/QUOTE]

Hi. Other guy here. I should clarify. I wasn't saying an iPhone in every hand and a Wii in every closet (gathering dust, amirite?). I was trying to illustrate that people like to upgrade and buy new iterations of products that they own. We can see that with Apple products most fervently, but also Nintendo products. How many people have upgraded their DS a few times?
 
[quote name='spmahn']But that market, as it stands, does not want anything else, they are happy playing bowling every once in a while with their friends,[/QUOTE]

who to believe has a better pulse on the market: spmanh or a billion dollar company with a complete market research department and a track record of understanding and being ahead of the market.

tough call.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I think when Wii HD launches, either this year or next, Nintendo's big launch game for it will be Metroid. Call me crazy, but I just think something's brewing there, and I kinda feel there's an artificial desire for one at the moment.[/QUOTE]
Metroid doesn't have a broad appeal, and I don't know that there's much they can do to amend that. It's a dark world Samus inhabits, I don't think that's the kind of thing that will go over well with the typical Wii family.

(Besides, and I'm not trying to start a Metroid flame war here, Metroid needs a break. A looooooong one, IMHO.)

If it's going to launch with a recognizable IP, and not something made up for the new features/gimmick the way Wii Sports was, my darkhorse would be Pokemon. They really haven't done much for Pokemon on consoles. Maybe internally they consider it a handheld-only franchise since the GCN version, beats me. I would think if they're serious about coupling the 3DS and the nextgen console, Pokemon would be a good IP to use for that.
 
[quote name='confoosious']who to believe has a better pulse on the market: spmanh or a billion dollar company with a complete market research department and a track record of understanding and being ahead of the market.

tough call.[/QUOTE]

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. All these same arguments people are making about Nintendo now, were also being made i. 1999 prior to Sega's release of the Dreamcast. Now granted, Nintendo is not Sega, and they are in a better position now than Sega was in 1998, but it's still an important case study as to what happens when you abandon your core fanbase.
 
Okay, now I'm convinced: you have encephalitis. Best case is 4 hours before your brain explodes.

Gonna have that hippocampus everywhere up in this beeyotch, nawmsayin? Yea yea.
 
I was watching something about the mac where a psychologist noted that early adopters tend to feel resentful when a company gets too big and they feel left behind.

This seems to happen a lot with the wii. People think just because they played Metroid back in the day, that nintendo's expansion that allows for actual decent third party stuff thats outside of their demographic is a slap in the face. "Oh noes, we're core fans and we're being abandoned! We want updated Starfox, Zelda, Mario, Wario, Kirby, Metroid, Final Fantasy, Chrono Triger, and new first party IP, ever 6 months. And we want you to stop publishing kiddie games because it offends us.!"
 
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Confoosious, I don't know what you're on about, either. Sega 1999 and Nintendo 2012 are not analogous at all. The argument that was being made for the success of the DC in 1999 was that it was beating the PS2 and "Dolphin" to the punch. It was "first," and people thought that mattered. No one's making the argument that Nintendo will have success with their next console because it comes ahead of the XBOX1080 or the PS4. Nintendo's not even playing the same game as MS and Sony, they might as well occupy different worlds.

The general argument that's being made is that Nintendo will succeed in the next generation because of the success they've had post-GCN. They don't waste movements, now, they're not hunting around for a niche. They've found it. They absolutely kill handhelds, and they've dug out a space in the console market by making a console that is "different" in ways that are meaningful to people/families who don't self-identify as gamers.

I stopped doubting Nintendo after the DS. Their next console won't set the world on fire, but it'll be anything but a flop. It will sell for all the reasons the Wii did: it will be novel, it will be unassuming, it will be priced (relatively) competitively, and it will not attempt to be an XBOX or PS.
 
[quote name='spmahn']Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. All these same arguments people are making about Nintendo now, were also being made i. 1999 prior to Sega's release of the Dreamcast. Now granted, Nintendo is not Sega, and they are in a better position now than Sega was in 1998, but it's still an important case study as to what happens when you abandon your core fanbase.[/QUOTE]

All these same arguments people are making about Nintendo now, were also being made in 2005 prior to Nintendo's release of the Wii.
 
Sega 1999 and Nintendo 2012 are not analogous at all. The argument that was being made for the success of the DC in 1999 was that it was beating the PS2 and "Dolphin" to the punch. It was "first," and people thought that mattered.
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Agreed, and there's also a big difference in that the Wii lags far behind the PS3 and 360 in terms of its capabilities. That didn't hamper its sales at the start -- and you can argue how much it has overall -- but now that more and more people have adopted HDTV, it's a factor for Nintendo going forward.

IMO they're smart to get going now on a console and look ahead to 2012 for that reason alone. As time goes on there the sentiment that the Wii 1 isn't capable enough and is too "old" will only intensify, which you can see from the last year of its software/hardware sales which have slowed down compared to before.
 
Consumers are fickle, and part of the reason why Apple continues to resonate with consumers is the same reason Starbucks does, it's a brand name that people associate with style and luxury, marketed toward middle income consumers that don't often get to indulge in such things. Nintendo is not Starbucks and they sure as hell aren't Apple, there's no guarantee that this segment of consumers is going to contiue to stick with Nintendo in the future, and if Nintendo is going to put all their eggs in that basket, well that's a very risky bet to make.
 
Nintendo's brand is as strong as ever. I love how the nintendo core market isn't gonna support nintendo next time around, yet the same market bought up all of their shit the first time around. Unless the wii 2 is a monumental piece of shit (and it could be), how exactly are you predicting that nintendo's core market will abandon them in droves? Are you listening to yourself? Toyota killed people with their brakes and they haven't gone the way of the Dreamcast. It takes a lot to kill a brand, especially one as good as Nintendo's, despite what you may think about the wii.

I don't want to argue about the relative merits of the wii2 vs xbox720 vs ps4. What you're talking about is branding. And you somehow think nintendo doesn't have a strong brand?

Also, you think the installed base is "happy to be bowling" and won't upgrade? Are you kidding?


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dothog - What I'm getting at is that I suspect spmahn is just hating on nintendo cause he feels burned by them. He's an early adopter of nintendo so when everyone else jumped on the bandwagon, he felt abandoned and left out. Now he goes around predicting gloom and doom for the company. If you are on any apple forums at all, you see this alot with mac heads. "I was running OS 7. Apple doesn't care about the loyal customers! They're gonna go down!"

This, of course, is why his arguments make no sense. It's from a place of anger and not rationale.

(Or at least that's what I'd like to think because no one can possibly believe what he's saying.)

How anyone can compare the dreamcast to the wii is beyond me. The average housewife had no idea what a dreamcast was in 1999 but practically everyone in the free world has heard of the wii. Say what you want about the wii's graphical capabilities, etc, etc, but the brand recognition is through the roof.
 
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[quote name='spmahn']Consumers are fickle, and part of the reason why Apple continues to resonate with consumers is the same reason Starbucks does, it's a brand name that people associate with style and luxury, marketed toward middle income consumers that don't often get to indulge in such things. Nintendo is not Starbucks and they sure as hell aren't Apple, there's no guarantee that this segment of consumers is going to contiue to stick with Nintendo in the future, and if Nintendo is going to put all their eggs in that basket, well that's a very risky bet to make.[/QUOTE]

Certainly core gamers are fickle, since they are the ones who have been abandoning Nintendo since Sony put out the Playstation. But, the brand is still pretty strong. While other brands have courted the core gamer, Nintendo has taken a very strong stand in the family gaming arena, which really no other console company can touch right now, nor do they try.

While a PS3 might have been a better console for me, the Wii has been a better console for the whole family. Even so, I have no regrets buying the Wii over the PS3 and I still find plenty of games to play.
 
[quote name='spmahn']Consumers are fickle, and part of the reason why Apple continues to resonate with consumers is the same reason Starbucks does, it's a brand name that people associate with style and luxury, marketed toward middle income consumers that don't often get to indulge in such things. Nintendo is not Starbucks and they sure as hell aren't Apple, there's no guarantee that this segment of consumers is going to contiue to stick with Nintendo in the future, and if Nintendo is going to put all their eggs in that basket, well that's a very risky bet to make.[/QUOTE]

Starbucks? Obviously you missed the whole '08-'09 time period when they closed close to 1,000 stores...
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Starbucks? Obviously you missed the whole '08-'09 time period when they closed close to 1,000 stores...[/QUOTE]

What's your point? If anything you're helping my argument. Once your core consumer realizes that you're all style and no substance, it's death.
 
[quote name='spmahn']What's your point? If anything you'r helping my argument. Once your core consumer realizes that you're all style and no substance, it's death.[/QUOTE]

You were arguing that brands like Apple and Starbucks are positioned such that they "resonate" with consumers such that they don't have to worry about whether consumers will "stick with" them. Now you're conceding one of those examples doesn't make consumers stick around that well.

A better point for you to have made is that any company can lose their core base of consumers at any time.
 
[quote name='spmahn']What's your point? If anything you're helping my argument. Once your core consumer realizes that you're all style and no substance, it's death.[/QUOTE]

I can't wait for the wii2 to sell 20M units and have you coming in here to say "I TOLD YOU! WII 2 is a failure! "

Because your thinking is not grounded in any reality I'm a part of.

I love how Microsoft and Sony spent millions trying to figure out how to be more like the wii but the wii has "no substance."

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you know what i find really amusing? You never get xbox or ps3 fanboys jumping into forums yelling stuff like "THE 360 REALLY NEEDS TO GET THE FAMILY AUDIENCE OR IT'S IN TROUBLE!"

And yet, from a business standpoint, that's exactly what sony and microsoft set out to do.

Meanwhile, "hardcore gamerz" always feel the need to say the wii needs hardcore gamez or it's in trouble.

Funny.

The wii cracks me up. It's got the most haters of any electronic device I can ever remember. (Could you imagine if betamax users went into every VHS forum to talk about how shitty it was? ) And I gotta think widespread adoption fuels that. You could write a whole book about the psychology of wii haters. I'd actually read it.
 
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[quote name='RedvsBlue']You were arguing that brands like Apple and Starbucks are positioned such that they "resonate" with consumers such that they don't have to worry about whether consumers will "stick with" them. Now you're conceding one of those examples doesn't make consumers stick around that well.

A better point for you to have made is that any company can lose their core base of consumers at any time.[/QUOTE]

That was the point I was making. While Starbucks may have had some financial troubles during the recession, prior to that, they were popular for no reason other than being a status symbol. Once people realized that they were paying 8 bucks for the same coffee they can get at the 7-11 for $1.50, that's when they had trouble. In Nintendo's case, if the market segment they found with the Wii decides that they can have just as much fun shooting birds on their iPhone for $1, they may not be so willing to pay $50 to go bowling anymore.

Anyways, I'm done with this argument, and I've said my piece, wheter you agree or not. I truly do hope the Wii 2 sells 20 millions copies and sticks around for a long long time, but I also hope Nintendo can find a better balance this generation as well, so the people who brought them to the dance can stop feeling frustrated and left out.
 
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