Is Delivery confirmation enough Proof to win a Paypal dispute?

soccerstud652

soccerstud652

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I am selling a bunch of items on eBay and have heard of a lot of people claiming to never get items, even though they were sent out.

So my questionis, is getting Delivery Confirmation enough proof that the item was delivered to a specific location? Is this all you need to beat someone that files an "item not received" report?

Also, is the receipt saying that you sent it to their zipcode on whatever date you did enough proof or do you actually need a DC number?

Thanks for the help in advance!
 
If it's within the US, yeah. I've had disputes like that before, sent the DC and the case was dropped. Later the user would message me saying "he forgot it was received". How the fuck to you forget a package was delivered?
 
Great. I think I am just going to get it for the higher priced selling items. How much does it cost usually? Does it depend on the amount you are shipping or is it a flat rate?

Also, is the receipt saying that you sent it to their zipcode on whatever date you did enough proof or do you actually need a DC number?
 
[quote name='soccerstud652']Great. I think I am just going to get it for the higher priced selling items. How much does it cost usually? Does it depend on the amount you are shipping or is it a flat rate?[/quote]

Get it with all your items, it saves you from arguing with the buyers. It's $.50 for priority, $.60 for all other types of shipping.
 
[quote name='tangytangerine']Get it with all your items, it saves you from arguing with the buyers. It's $.50 for priority, $.60 for all other types of shipping.[/quote]

You need to look at the % of lost packages.

Is it worth spending $6 in delivery confirmation so that you can save $5 in a Paypal dispute?

Losing a Paypal dispute doesn't make you a crook. It just lightens your balance.
 
DC isn't free with PayPal shipping (well it is free with Priority Mail) just a lot cheaper as you get the electronic DC rate. I think it's currently $0.13.

The DC has to actually show the package as delivered. i.e. If the package actually is lost (or the USPS simply doesn't take a delivery scan of your DC barcode for some reason), the DC won't show as delivered, and you'd lose the PP dispute. It also doesn't help if the buyer files a SNAD (sig. not as described) claim vs. a non-receipt claim. But that's kind of common sense stuff.

IMO, you should either get DC or be prepared to believe your buyer on whether the package is received or not.
 
It's 14 cents if you use Paypal shipping. I use Paypal shipping for everything: trades, Ebay, half.com. Every time some one pulls the "I didn't get it" routine on me, I look up the delievery confirmation and say "Oh really, it says here you got it 3 days ago." Inevitably, they either don't reply or make up something about how some one at their house checked the mail and didn't tell them they had a package and they just found it on the counter or something. I'd say the ratio of dishonest to honest buyers on Ebay are about 1:100, so if you sell 100 items on Ebay, you're going to sell to at least 1 scam-artist.
 
DC can be incorrect, I've had Best Buy ship me a package that never arrived though DC said it had. It was proof enough for them though, they didn't give me a refund or anything because they believed the DC and not me. Luckily it was only a $3 game.
 
Ya, I only ask because I am being scammed by a seller (never got item and the seller will not return calls or emails) and now that i am selling I want to be safe because I see there are scum bags scammers around.
 
[quote name='soccerstud652']How do you fight a SNAD if the buyer is just lying or trying to scam you?[/QUOTE]

In my experience, they give their side, you give yours, and PayPal sides with the buyer. However they do have to have their own DC # showing delivery back to you before PayPal grants them the refund, so there is quite a bit of leg work/mail fraud involved if a buyer goes that route to defraud you.
 
You need to qualify for SPP - a delivery confirmation number is only part of that. In order to beat a Item Not Received dispute, you need:

1) Have a premier or business account. If you have a personal account, you will automatically lose all claims of non-receipt.

2) To have sent to a CONFIRMED address. If the address is UNCONFIRMED, you lose automatically.

3) Have sent within 7 days of receiving payment

4) Have online trackable proof of delivery - your DC number.

There are also some minor details, but those are the 4 biggies

Dave
 
Good points, I didn't know about the personal account wrinkle.

How does PP verify #3 if you didn't use PayPal shipping? as a DC # is just going to show the day it was delivered and not the day it was sent.
 
But how can you tell if the buyer is confirmed or not? Better yet, if a buyer wins an auction and is not confirmed, what are you supposed to do then?
 
When you get the payment the address shows up as either confirmed or unconfirmed right on the payment.

If you aren't going to take payments from unconfirmed addresses you should state that in your listings. Then you can setup your PP account to deny those payments, or just refund them back on a case by case basis I suppose.
 
I'm dealing with this right now. I just got a dispute that the item was never received and the DC shows it as being delivered last week! I told them this last week and they still filed the claim. I'm not sure if I should try to communicate with them or escalate the claim
 
Also, with the claim I just filed for the item not received, how does actually getting your money back work if you win. I do not believe the item was eligible for the $1,000 paypal protection. Does paypal just transfer the money from thier account back to yours? I am only worried because I noticed the seller "unregistered" at eBay and probably did the same at Paypal as well, so if he has no account am I screwed or does PP have record of his account numbers so they can still deduct it?
 
[quote name='soccerstud652']But how can you tell if the buyer is confirmed or not? Better yet, if a buyer wins an auction and is not confirmed, what are you supposed to do then?[/QUOTE]

It will say at the payment under the shipping address. It will say CONFIRMED in green or UNCONFIRMED in orange.

What you should do is put a line in your auctions that you only take paypal from confirmed addresses, and then set paypal to either auto-reject all unconfirmed, or at least give you the choice to accept or deny. I have mine set to choice, because you can then see how long they have had the account and how many unique sellers paid, and then sometimes its worth taking the risk. To change your paypal settings for this:

Log into your PayPal account. Click the Profile tab. Click on Payment Receiving Preferences.

And thats it. You can also block international payments from there

Dave
 
[quote name='soccerstud652']Also, with the claim I just filed for the item not received, how does actually getting your money back work if you win. I do not believe the item was eligible for the $1,000 paypal protection. Does paypal just transfer the money from thier account back to yours? I am only worried because I noticed the seller "unregistered" at eBay and probably did the same at Paypal as well, so if he has no account am I screwed or does PP have record of his account numbers so they can still deduct it?[/quote]

1) They give the seller(from the sounds of it) a week to reply. If he doesn't reply or gives little to no information, Paypal goes with your side. Just be careful though, since he could just slap a DC on something and just mail it to you and say the item you bid on was delivered. Then you can't dispute again cause Paypal won't allow you(there was a thread on a similar incident like that happening) if it's the wrong item.

2) If he's unregistered, no, there's no paypal protection.

3) If you win, they'll take the money out of his Paypal account, if he hasn't dumped it in his bank account yet. If he did, you're screwed. Even if you win, you only get a fraction of what you paid.

4) As for his account, since he accepted Paypal, that means he has a paypal account for them to access.
 
Well I really can't see how he could slap a DC on something and mail it to me now because the dates wouldn't coincide at all. So if he has no money in his account I am screwed? Man, Paypal blows. How is this protection?

Also, what is the "fraction" that you get. I won the cd for $1.01 and the shipping was $4.49
 
[quote name='soccerstud652']Well I really can't see how he could slap a DC on something and mail it to me now because the dates wouldn't coincide at all. So if he has no money in his account I am screwed? Man, Paypal blows. How is this protection?

Also, what is the "fraction" that you get. I won the cd for $1.01 and the shipping was $4.49[/quote]
So you have a DC# or not? I meant if he provided no DC, he could just mail something out(a post card in a envelope) and say it was a CD. Then provides Paypal that DC# saying that the CD was delivered when the DC# was updated to show delivery. It's a loophole that Paypal has yet to fix.

As for money, yeah, if there's no money in his account, you're screwed. That protection is only good with confirmed users.

The fraction comment is if he only has some money(not the total). I had one that I paid $100(plus $10 for shipping) to a guy for a PS2 bundle, never shipped and only got back $75 back. A lot of people have had that happen to them too.
 
Here is my problem. I do not have a DC from him. He never sent it. If he just slaps one on a piece of paper and sends it out though, won't they realize that it wasn't sent out until after the dispute was issued? Wouldn;t they realize the scam here?

Also, I am a confirmed user. And the receipient is a Verified user (It says by their name...The recipient of this payment is Verified). So am I protected by Paypal for 1,000?
 
[quote name='soccerstud652']Here is my problem. I do not have a DC from him. He never sent it. If he just slaps one on a piece of paper and sends it out though, won't they realize that it wasn't sent out until after the dispute was issued? Wouldn;t they realize the scam here?

Also, I am a confirmed user. And the receipient is a Verified user (It says by their name...The recipient of this payment is Verified). So am I protected by Paypal for 1,000?[/quote]

If it's delivered before the claim is closed, no, they'll just think the claim was for him to get the thing shipped.

As for verified, should've mentioned that before. Since it sounded like he wasn't verified. Since he's verified, you have some protection. Check Paypal's protection page to see you covered for.
 
Ya I don't see anything that says whether they are or not. It has my address and in GREEN says confirmed but it just displays the seller's name, email and eBay user name. It only says The recipient of this payment is Verified)

Is there somewhere else I can find this out?
 
It should say it in the transaction listing(that's where it always is when I see it). Slacker got it right, verified don't mean jack, it just means he's got a Paypal CC or bank account linked to the account.
 
Paypal has a nasty loophole with their disputes. In order for a seller to win an item not recieved dispute they can mail out ANYTHING with DC. Paypal will side with them since they claim its not their job to make sure they actually mailed you the right item.

Then they will laugh in your face and say sorry you can't file 2 claims on the same item. Once again for the usual stuff if you paid via credit card and paypal doesnt get your money back file a charge back, constantly bitch to paypal and file a dispute thru the BBB.

BBB is ymmv but its free and it might work.
 
Just wanted to let everyone know that the seller never responded to the dispute, so it was decided in my favor. Eventhough the guy was not confirmed, Paypal refunded me every last cent. I will have to say I am pretty impressed on this one. I guess Paypal isn't always out to get you!
 
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