Itagaki Considers Making DMC4 Producer An Enemy Greater Than Namco/Tekken

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1UP: I heard through the grapevine during TGS that Capcom producer Hiroyuki Kobayashi doesn't think that Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword is a real action game because it's on a handheld.

TI: I heard about that yesterday, and I also heard the name Kobayashi for the first time yesterday too. When something I have personally put a lot of effort into and am really happy about, and something that my staff has been working on so hard for years...when someone comes in and insults that I'm not real happy about it. I don't know what his reasoning was specifically for saying that, but I sure hope he realizes he's going to make Team NINJA his enemy for the next 10 years by saying something like that.

1UP: Do you think this is on-par with what set you off all those years ago when the Namco executive made some disparaging comments about Dead or Alive?
TI: No, I think [this is] worse. At least Namco back then, at least while insulting us, admitted that DOA was a fighting game. But Kobayashi looked at Ninja Gaiden DS, which is our action game for DS, and said, "This isn't an action game." What kind of games has he made?

1UP: He has produced a lot of the Resident Evil games, Devil May Cry, Sengoku Basara, etc.
TI: Luckily [Capcom general manager of software planning] Keiji Inafune and I are friends, so hopefully this wont escalate too much. [Laughs] I just think Kobayashi had better start polishing his eye for looking at good games.

1UP: Have you seen Devil May Cry 4? Because that's Kobayashi's current game as producer.
TI: Yes, I saw and played it at Tokyo Game Show.

1UP: Well, it's not just coming for PS3 anymore; it's also coming to Xbox 360. Do you think you have a rival in the wings?
TI: No, I don't treat it like that at all. I guess that qualifies as an action game, but I think it's a totally different kind of game.

1UP: What kind of game would you describe it as?
TI: I was just shocked when I played the game, because to me the first rule of an action game is that the enemies have to be a threat, and the enemies have to come at you. And I was playing it, and I spent a couple of seconds moving...what's his name...Nero? I was moving him around, and I stood in front of an enemy for five seconds...and nothing happened -- he didn't attack me. So after that, he finally attacked me, but briefly, and I was like, "Wait a second, what was that?" So I waited another 10 seconds and the enemy was just dancing in front of Nero.

And I thought, "OK, I guess this is what the enemies are like in this game. I just have to find some cool ways to kill them." And then I pulled out the sword and tried every possible permutation of the stick and buttons, and I could only get him to do one kind of sword slash. Am I mistaken? Was I crazy?

1UP: If I had to offer an observation at this pre-release junction, it's that Nero is so like Dante -- and Dante is an unlockable character -- that I wonder why they made them both so similar.
TI: So I just thought if the enemies aren't going to do very much, at least they could allow the player to do a lot of cool stuff to kill them, but the battles really felt flat [and are] one-dimensional. So I was just surprised when I played it.

1UP: Before, when the games were on separate systems, kids used to love to try and pit Devil May Cry versus Ninja Gaiden, arguing which was better. Now that they're technically going to both be on the same platform, what would you say to someone riding the fence trying to decide between buying Devil May Cry 4 and Ninja Gaiden 2? TI: I have no intent to insult believers of Devil May Cry. The problem is that the producer of DMC4 insulted Ninja Gaiden DS. I mean if he has so much confidence that Dragon Sword is not an action game, then I'd love for him to show me Devil May Cry 4, if he's that confident. And I'd love to see if he could beat Ninja Gaiden 2.
Click to expand...
Maybe he'll find something else to put on his Top 5 Worst Games of All Time list than just five Tekkens. :lol:
 
That quote is funny, but that's a great interview otherwise.

It's sad that people emphasize the industry drama, rather than focus on the extremely candid and insightful perspective the guy offers on his development process. Instead, it's "omg itagaki is such an ass, he killed my family" etc. etc.
 
Yeah, the interview was solid. I liked his take on the DS hardware and how he's using it to execute the team's ideas.
 
Itagaki is right - Ninja Gaiden > DMC and DoA > Tekken.
 
Didn't the DMC producer come up to Itagaki at a party, said "I'm the DMC guy and I really admire your work," and Itagaki laughed and called him a dumbass?
 
Mmm mmm, I love a rivalry. And at least unlike in the Namco rivalry with fighting games, Itagaki really does develop fucking incredible action games.
 
Damn game dork drama.
Capcom doesnt have a game in the wings even close to the caliber of Ninja Gaiden2. If Team Ninja developes a game with a storyline just EQUAL to Ninja Gaiden1... might end up seeing one of the greatest games of all time (especially if the originals are all unlockable with achievements!)
 
[quote name='Lupuri']Damn game dork drama.
Capcom doesnt have a game in the wings even close to the caliber of Ninja Gaiden2. If Team Ninja developes a game with a storyline just EQUAL to Ninja Gaiden1... might end up seeing one of the greatest games of all time (especially if the originals are all unlockable with achievements!)[/QUOTE]


Ninja Gaiden 1 had a story?! I never noticed :lol:
 
[quote name='Apossum'] Instead, it's "omg itagaki is such an ass, he killed my family" etc. etc.[/QUOTE]
But Itagaki did kill my family...
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']But Itagaki did kill my family...[/QUOTE]


See, people always gotta complain, as if their precious "family" has anything to do with game development.
 
[quote name='jer7583']1.Itagaki is right - 2.Ninja Gaiden > DMC and 3.DoA > Tekken.[/quote]
And 4.PS3 > 360 and Wii.

Oh man, you're 0 for 4 there, buddy.


I'm sure this is Itagaki making shit up again as usual.

Oh, and Itagaki is an ass.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Mmm mmm, I love a rivalry. And at least unlike in the Namco rivalry with fighting games, Itagaki really does develop fucking incredible action games.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, rivalries are fun.

Of course I'll say DMC>>>>All
 
Itagaki sucks. The only thing worthwhile he's ever done is Ninja Gaiden. DOA is a joke compared to Tekken, Soul Calibur, etc.
 
[quote name='Lupuri']Capcom doesnt have a game in the wings even close to the caliber of Ninja Gaiden2.[/QUOTE]

Um Resident Evil 5? It's only the sequel to what many are saying is the best game of last generation.
 
DOA sucks as a fighting game. I don't get the point of it besides the eye candy.

I can't bad talk Itagaki though as Ninja Gaiden was heavenly on the Xbox. Can't wait for NG2.
 
[quote name='evanft']Itagaki sucks. The only thing worthwhile he's ever done is Ninja Gaiden. DOA is a joke compared to Tekken, Soul Calibur, etc.[/QUOTE]
So true. Also, DMC3>Ninja Gaiden.
 
Wow, I really can't fathom people being serious saying DMC is better than Ninja Gaiden. Weird.

To each their own though. :)
 
[quote name='evanft']Itagaki sucks. The only thing worthwhile he's ever done is Ninja Gaiden. DOA is a joke compared to Tekken, Soul Calibur, etc.[/QUOTE]


as if Ninja Gaiden is just some minor footnote in gaming history...
 
[quote name='daroga']Wow, I really can't fathom people being serious saying DMC is better than Ninja Gaiden. Weird.

To each their own though. :)[/QUOTE]
Hmmm...idk. DMC3 is my favorite action game ever.

I played through NG once on the Xbox and it was really good. Got Sigma but didn't play through it due to the moronic places they put loading spots.

I've played DMC3 so much though. I just find it to be more fun plus I like the combat system more, story more, and the characters more.
 
[quote name='whoknows']Hmmm...idk. DMC3 is my favorite action game ever.

I played through NG once on the Xbox and it was really good. Got Sigma but didn't play through it due to the moronic places they put loading spots.

I've played DMC3 so much though. I just find it to be more fun plus I like the combat system more, story more, and the characters more.[/quote]I've not played enough of DMC3 to really be able to say. What I did play didn't impress me in the least, but it wasn't real far into the game.

And if Capcom had a semi-coherent story at all (like we're talking plot line of a Perfect Strangers episode here), it'd have beaten Ninja Gaiden's story hands-down. ;)
 
DoA is fast and fun with a simple counter system that is effective at predicting your enemy's movement without requiring complex commands or timing. I think that's why I like it better than Tekken, because the counter system is more about predicting your enemy's move than executing the counter.

Soul Calibur and DoA are the only fighting games I've seen people can play and have fun without needing to really know things or be hardcore.

Tekken is clunky and slow, and the neutral guard thing does not work for me.

Devil May Cry is sort of the same way.. it just doesn't feel smooth, it feels clunky compared to Ninja Gaiden. His point about enemies is totally valid because Ninja Gaiden is one of the few games where every enemy does really pose a threat and actively attempts to attack, rather than having enemies placed just as attention sustainers that should be attacked. The readily available and overly effective ranged attacks don't help either. Giving the player the option to wear down the enemy with guns from a distance doesn't work in an action game. DMC is the only one that does it of the big three, and it's obvious why.
 
[quote name='jer7583']
Devil May Cry is sort of the same way.. it just doesn't feel smooth, it feels clunky compared to Ninja Gaiden. His point about enemies is totally valid because Ninja Gaiden is one of the few games where every enemy does really pose a threat and actively attempts to attack, rather than having enemies placed just as attention sustainers that should be attacked. The readily available and overly effective ranged attacks don't help either. Giving the player the option to wear down the enemy with guns from a distance doesn't work in an action game. DMC is the only one that does it of the big three, and it's obvious why.[/QUOTE]
If the enemies are just there for show in DMC then why is it such a hard game? And why do the guns not work? They're not that powerful to begin with so you won't be taking down enemies with the gun alone.
 
I'm just saying that giving the player a free, effective long range weapon in a close range action title focusing on quick encounters and stylish maneuvers is a bad choice. Neither God of War nor Ninja Gaiden do this for good reason.

And not all the enemies are for show, but there absolutely are ones put in there just to supplement the "real" dangers in any given area.
 
[quote name='jer7583']I'm just saying that giving the player a free, effective long range weapon in a close range action title focusing on quick encounters and stylish maneuvers is a bad choice. Neither God of War nor Ninja Gaiden do this for good reason.

And not all the enemies are for show, but there absolutely are ones put in there just to supplement the "real" dangers in any given area.[/QUOTE]
You could say the same thing about the enemies in God Of War since pretty much any enemy that isn't bigger than kratos is just there to be there since they are weak and just stand around.

And GoW2 had the Bow, Ninja Gaiden had the Shurikens, and Bow so both games did have long range weapons :)
 
Well, God of War is on the bottom of that list of three, by far. ;)
The shurikens were more like a burst, three in a row and then a pause, and the bow is a single shot, aimed weapon.. Way different than the rapid fire pistols.

I guess I just saw it as a weakness of why would I get close when I could just walk backwards and mash the shoot button until the enemies go away?
 
[quote name='jer7583']Well, God of War is on the bottom of that list of three, by far. ;)
The shurikens were more like a burst, three in a row and then a pause, and the bow is a single shot, aimed weapon.. Way different than the rapid fire pistols.

I guess I just saw it as a weakness of why would I get close when I could just walk backwards and mash the shoot button until the enemies go away?[/quote]
You really don't understand DMC then. The pistols are there to juggle enemies in the air while performing combos. DMC is all about style and mixing attacks together, while doing it with style. This isn't DMC2 where the pistols killed everything in four shots. If you just stand back and shoot stuff to death then you really shouldn't be playing DMC to begin with. I don't want to get into this NG/DMC/What ever action game debate since it's pointless. I'm never going to change your opinion on what game is better just like you aren't going to with me. I just wanted to say the guns in DMC aren't meant to be used by just standing back and shooting stuff to death.
 
Yea... After reading this thread... I will agree...

Dead or Alive is easier for scrubs/n00bs to play... that's why it has any fanbase at all(in regards to it's gameplay/system)...

It has it's merits at the competitive level, but then again when we compare games at that level... there's like what, 30 ppl that play the game seriously?
 
[quote name='Apossum']as if Ninja Gaiden is just some minor footnote in gaming history...[/QUOTE]
I didn't know NG had any footnote in gaming history.
 
The DMC guns are there to sustain melee combos with added style, or to shoot the ice off Cerberus so you can go toe to toe with him.

I'm beginning to think NG vs. DMC is a holy war; I can't understand anyone who would say NG was better. NG was tepid. NEEDS MOAR FLYING SWALLOW
 
Holy WAR!!!! Ninja Gaiden was better!!!

Well for me at least. I loved DMC1 when it came out but 2 was universally panned and I couldn't get into 3.

I had more fun with God of War than any of the DMC games.

At this point I'm just content to be able to play Ninja Gaiden 2, DMC 4 and the eventual God of War 3.
 
Tekken Tag really broke Namco onto the seen, granted it was a flat rip of the Capcom games... but without TTT, Tekken4-5 wouldnt have happened.

Tekken Tag >>>> DOA
 
I tried playing Devil May Cry after hearing the buzz but the main character just felt so sluggish to me for an action game. I also didn't like some of the fixed camera angles...it gave the game a claustrophobic feeling. These things kind of held me back from really digging into it. I know a lot of the fun is in the combat and I kind of want to try it again but my initial impression was meh. Not sure I'd rebuy it.
 
I loved DMC and Ninja Gaiden, but if I had to pick one it would be Ninja Gaiden.

For that matter, I really like the DOA and Tekken series also.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I loved DMC and Ninja Gaiden, but if I had to pick one it would be Ninja Gaiden.

For that matter, I really like the DOA and Tekken series also.[/QUOTE]

Not allowed. This is the internet. You need to declare an alligence and insult the opposing product. Often times without playing it, just to prove you're hardcore.

I'll probably buy both. Or neither. Depending on what else is released around that time. Neither game really kept my ass glued to my couch.
 
[quote name='zewone']I didn't know NG had any footnote in gaming history.[/QUOTE]


for one thing, show me a game with better AI. I'll say that I believe it's an objective fact that there is no game with better AI than Ninja Gaiden.

also, it's the general consensus that DMC and NG are the best action games of all time...maybe you just don't pay attention to action games?


anyway, my point is that regardless of anyone's opinions, 99% of all developers will not develop anything that comes close to the quality of Ninja Gaiden. So when people say "all he did" was Ninja Gaiden, that's really not minimizing his work at all :lol:
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']FEAR.[/QUOTE]



No no no no....the enemies are basically all the same in FEAR and while what they do and how they react to shots is interesting and ahead of most other FPS games, it doesn't come close to touching the variety of routines in NG. A lot of the enemies in FEAR do stuff that makes no sense as well and makes them easy to pick off...so it's still very exploitable.

FPS games won't even begin to come close-- they have fewer enemies types and that alone makes them inferior. Ninja Gaiden has a wide variety of enemies, each of whom have their own routine and move set, and on top of that, they team up to use each other's strengths to get you. That's miles ahead of what your typical FPS puts you up against. I suggest looking in another genre.
 
I don't know. I mean don't get me wrong, I love NG (nowhere near as much as you though lol. I still think DMC3 is the best action game ever made), as i'm sure is evidenced in the Sigma thread, but I wasn't all that impressed with the enemy AI. They still fall to techniques and patterns just like every other enemy in every other game.

The FEAR enemies tear me up quite often, more often than I got my butt kicked in NG. Though I am much better at action games than FPS. I don't know >.
 
[quote name='Apossum']No no no no....the enemies are basically all the same in FEAR and while what they do and how they react to shots is interesting and ahead of most other FPS games, it doesn't come close to touching the variety of routines in NG. A lot of the enemies in FEAR do stuff that makes no sense as well and makes them easy to pick off...so it's still very exploitable.

FPS games won't even begin to come close-- they have fewer enemies types and that alone makes them inferior. Ninja Gaiden has a wide variety of enemies, each of whom have their own routine and move set, and on top of that, they team up to use each other's strengths to get you. That's miles ahead of what your typical FPS puts you up against. I suggest looking in another genre.[/QUOTE]

You also need to keep in mind that FPSes really don't put any emphasis on defense. In NG, defense is at least as important as offense, and it makes dealing with certain enemies particularly difficult.
 
Considering the Dead or Alive series now officially sucks balls, yeah, I can see him switching his inflated ego over to Ninja Gaiden.

In all honesty, though, I haven't been that impressed wtih DMC4 yet. So I doubt he's up for much of a fight.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']The DMC guns are there to sustain melee combos with added style, or to shoot the ice off Cerberus so you can go toe to toe with him.

I'm beginning to think NG vs. DMC is a holy war; I can't understand anyone who would say NG was better. NG was tepid. NEEDS MOAR FLYING SWALLOW[/QUOTE]

Agreed. And, while it may be because of the two producers involved, it's funny that God of War hasn't really even factored into the debate. DMC > NG > GoW.
 
[quote name='Apossum']for one thing, show me a game with better AI. I'll say that I believe it's an objective fact that there is no game with better AI than Ninja Gaiden.

also, it's the general consensus that DMC and NG are the best action games of all time...maybe you just don't pay attention to action games?


anyway, my point is that regardless of anyone's opinions, 99% of all developers will not develop anything that comes close to the quality of Ninja Gaiden. So when people say "all he did" was Ninja Gaiden, that's really not minimizing his work at all :lol:[/QUOTE]
Halo 3 has better AI, Bioshock too. And I think God of War 2 was much more enjoyable than either DMC or NG, though Ninja Gaiden is a lot better than DMC.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']I don't know. I mean don't get me wrong, I love NG (nowhere near as much as you though lol. I still think DMC3 is the best action game ever made), as i'm sure is evidenced in the Sigma thread, but I wasn't all that impressed with the enemy AI. They still fall to techniques and patterns just like every other enemy in every other game.

The FEAR enemies tear me up quite often, more often than I got my butt kicked in NG. Though I am much better at action games than FPS. I don't know >.
 
I actually like Itagaki's cockiness because it makes for a fun read when he says something outlandish or retarded. It's kind of like whenever Stephon Marbury does an interview.

Ninja Gaiden and DMC3 are both really good action games, so I think a rivalry would be pretty neat there (I do have more faith in NG2 being good than DMC4, for the record). I'm not sure why the DMC4 producer singled out the DS NG like that, but Itagaki has legitimate reason to be upset with that guy's comments. I'm sure his team's worked very hard on the game and are proud of what they're putting out.

You can't take Itagaki's beef with Tekken seriously though; it seems like nothing more than a petty grudge. I do enjoy both series, but for very different reasons, since they bring different things to the table. Tekken's awesome when you want to play a fighter with real depth competitively with people who know what they're doing. DOA's fun with casual gamer friends due to its simplistic gameplay and eye candy (the multi-tiered stages are very neat).
 
They should have an industry battle a la Kanye West and 50 Cent to see which game sells better.

If Kobayashi sells more, Itagaki can no longer address the media. If Itagaki sells more, Itagaki can no longer address the media.

Either way, we win.
 
I have a better idea.

Let's have Tekken vs DOA vs Virtua Fighter.

We can have all the producers play as their favorite character, and then see who can press the punch buttons the fastest, since that's about all you can do in those games anyway.
 
[quote name='Apossum']well, Sigma is the easiest version of the game. Normal mode is not like normal in Black or the original. Hard, Very Hard, and Master Ninja is where you really see the enemies collaborating and exploiting vulnerable frames in moves.[/quote]
I've played through both previous versions, and finished all difficulties (except never played ninja dog) and all challenges. I'm not saying the AI isn't good, just I think making the claim that it's the best in any game is not one I'm ready to accept.
 
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