Really? For me, it becomes about intent at that point. If someone is actively trying to get an officer's gun, it's not so they can show him how to clean it or to do magic tricks, lol. If you don't believe it's reasonable to respond with deadly force in a moment where somebody is consciously trying to kill you, then I don't know what else to say.
You make me want to puke.
There is no arguing with Liberal Logic. Let someone try to kill this mother
er and see if he fights back, or if he lays down and takes it in the ass. Pretty easy to point fingers until one is in the situation.
Please stop liking my posts. I'm not on "your side", numbnuts. You're a catchphrase regurgitator. All political parties have agendas. I voted for Obama both times because the Republican party couldn't get its shit together and had horrible ideas on how to improve the country.There is no arguing with Liberal Logic. Let someone try to kill this mother
ing Retarded. You should try it. It's awesome.ing terrifying. Who are these people[/quote]Have you been in a fight before? Most people don't think that clearly during a violent conflict.
We're all counting the minutes till your next banning. By the way, if you wanted to be subtle you shouldn't have picked almost the exact same name as before.
Or have a picture of the same guy as the avatar. :smh:
If I had to use the analogy for the "Well he went for my gun" thing I would use the South Park episode where Jimbo goes hunting screaming the animals are going right for them while shooting.
LOLZ...you're such a drama queen.
Two words: Maricopa County.
A) Are most cab drivers white?
There's many where he's made remarks that were uncannily polarized. A nice one of recent time:
So, you're going to discount actual situations that LE encounter because of where it was done at? And you think that the situations that ended in violence were only because they were intended to?
I knew you'd use that quote. Anyone with an ounce of intellectual honesty can admit that the consistent findings of police policies and action in NYC targeted mostly Black and Latinos with much higher rates of usage force. And let's face it, at the end of the day he's telling his son Exactly how to act when confronted by cops: by acting in a way that make cops feel safer around him. Isn't that what you want? To feel safe around your suspects so you don't have to put bullet holes in them?
Are you NOT familiar with Sheriff Joe and the way he runs his department? If there's a perfect example of how bad brass can
everything up, it's THIS bastard. Abuse of power and racist? He's your go to guy! So yeah! I'm going to be extremely skeptical of this particular story not only because of the source, but where it took place. Do you agree with how he practices law enforcement or something?Of course I'd use that quote. It's the most recent, and I'm not digging through his entire history of anti-cop rhetoric. Fact is, before de Blasio entered office, NYPD had a 70% approval rating. Before he came into office, the crime rate had steadily been going down for many years. But suddenly, there's this huge uproar and the police are corrupt racists!
would someone want to make more work for themselves? It couldn't have to do with the numbers of who's more likely to resist, right? that, they're just racist, you can do it anyways! Let me bring Al Sharpton up here to tell you why you should all be fearing for your lives, despite the fact that the vast majority of LE isn't corrupt! 38,000 LEOs in NYPD alone with literally over 100,000 interactions per day, but let's focus on this one and use it as the example of how LE conducts itself!".Did you NOT watch the video? Or did you feel like completely dismissing the points made so that you could re-iterate a logical fallacy by "attacking the person/authority", despite the fact that those encounters are 100% valid and used in training nationwide?Are you NOT familiar with Sheriff Joe and the way he runs his department? If there's a perfect example of how bad brass can
So what you're saying is that you can't be assed to find a quote in which he directly denounces the NYPD for being totally corrupt and racist shitloads. Black and Latino communities have had problems since forever with the NYPD and for you to try and bullshit your way out of it by saying that it all started with De Blasio's election is really something.Of course I'd use that quote. It's the most recent, and I'm not digging through his entire history of anti-cop rhetoric. Fact is, before de Blasio entered office, NYPD had a 70% approval rating. Before he came into office, the crime rate had steadily been going down for many years. But suddenly, there's this huge uproar and the police are corrupt racists!
I'd like to see your cause analysis of why minorities had more instances of use of force against them. Do you honestly believe LE just goes around clubbing minorities for the fun of it? Seriously. Why the
I've finally the light! Al Sharpton created the concept of race! That's how he riles people up and racebaits so damn well! Everything is always just fine before he arrives and then BOOM! Black people start acting all crazy and violent because they're more naturally prone to those types of self expression!You want a better police force? Who doesn't? Undermining the police force though, and planting seeds of disrespect isn't how you go about it. It goes directly against the idea of community policing, by undermining their authority and polarizing the sides. I really enjoy de Blasio when he goes "Hey, remember how the police said to not block roads or bridges?
Do you believe Garner died because he was black? Because that's how de Blasio has painted the situation. Which there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest that is why he died. So why was race highlighted again and again in his speeches? Why is he bringing Al Sharpton, an infamous racebaiter, to talk and rile up the crowds?
de Blasio has chosen his words carefully time and time again. Instead of even *hinting* at the fact that none of these incidents would've occurred had the decedent NOT resisted a lawful arrest, he has painted them as race motivated crimes. All backed by Al Sharpton the entire way.
Cops have fragile egos and need to be coddled like little babies. Gotcha.
Fox News affiliate and Maricopa County don't set off any bells for you huh? Well how about this: staging training exercises with the worse possible outcomes and then treating every encounter, no matter how small, with the same expectation despite the fact that the chances of being killed are still relatively slim. You yourself admit to saying that a vast majority of encounters go without incident, so please tell me how you square that circle and how that makes for effective policing? Again, how much and what kinds of corruption is allowed before you'd call a department corrupt? What would it take for you to say that a department is racist?
MLK owed 4.5 million in back taxes while demanding people pay their "fair share", used the term "homos" in a derogatory manner, and backed proven false stories like Sharpton does? Who knew? As far as Garner, wasn't he arrested 34 times, most of them for selling loosies? Arguing with the cops is gonna earn you rougher treatment every time as well, black, white, or other.
Actually, my link shows that a much higher population of minorities are in gangs. You don't see a link to gangs and crime / resisting arrest?
You're right. The response is in regards to the threat. In this case, a guy much larger than all the officers, resisting. Who was on probation for being recently released for, get this, the same crime. And had a rap sheet with over 30 prior convictions.
Fixed that for you.
Maybe you missed the part where these guys failed completely as LE? You don't deal with a non-cooperative suspect by asking things nicely and timidly if they continue to disregard your commands. You don't take your eyes off them and let them just wander around. Direct authoritative commands gets results. Trainers are trained to take advantage of trainees and walk all over them if the situation arises. Do you think criminals don't? That's exactly why those scenarios played out that way. In addition, if you're trying to show how lethal force situations can arise, would you give people a ton of situations that couldn't get to that point? That'd be a waste of time.
I don't know, evidence beyond "more of x race was stopped" and "1 officer was found to be committing a crime"? Just saying, statistically, in higher crime areas there is a higher population of minorities and lower economic status. Just as my link earlier demonstrated, there is also a higher gang population in minorities. You don't think that could have anything to do with anything?
Non Sequitor? Also racist cause that's what you call it when you ascribe a certain type of criminality to a race.
Broken Windows, right? I'm sure the NY State Department of Revenue really needed that tax money.
And who's the one getting bent out of shape about the term "allegedly?" Not the so-called racebaitors.
How they can arise!=How often they will arise.
So do you agree with Arpaio's methods or not?
^This. NYPD were a bunch of corrupt, criminal shitbags as a whole before Wilhelm took office.
So, if I say that criminals are more likely to resist arrest than an innocent person, that's non sequitur? Point out the logical leap that's wrong there.
LE is not trained to give full blown medical analysis. They are not trained to give CPR to a breathing person. EMS showed up within a normal amount of time and didn't make him a priority. They are the ones trained far more in depth for medical situations. I don't see a problem.
And? The point of the exercises weren't to show an "average day in the life of a LEO". The point of the exercises was to show how things can escalate, and why use of force isn't measured in absolutes. Precisely why an unarmed man is not always the victim if they are shot.
I don't know enough on his methods to agree or disagree. Not that they matter when putting people through standard training exercises that are performed across the country on a daily basis. Your point, or are we going back to that logical fallacy of attacking the character/authority again?
You got that from stormfront.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/sharpton.asp
It does. It also says "like Sharpton does" at the end of the sentence with a question mark. Maybe you shouldn't take potshots at somebody's intelligence, asking if they passed a debate class, when you struggle with simple reading comprehension yourself. :lol:
If that's an lol for you I wouldn't want to see a rofl.
Fallacy: Changing the goal posts.
If you don't see a problem, they why the
did you bring it up? Oh right, you just want to talk shit about De Blasio.This is funny because Brown WAS UNARMED. Same goes for Martin and it turns out that Zimmerman has shitty impulse control afterall...who would've thought!
Considering the kind of cops and policing that come out of Maricopa?
.YES. But hey, since you know absolutely jack shit about Maricopa County, I should just take your word for it becauseFallacy: Straw man.
Yes. From my experience, on a per weight basis, coke never carries lighter penalties than weed. Crack is on par (Fair Sentencing Act of 2010). "Ghettos" are targeted for *crime* more than suburbs due to higher crime rates. Drugs are included in that, as drug crimes are more prevalent. It is much more rare to run across a drug deal gone wrong homicide in a suburb than it is in a "ghetto".
Read the quotes. I was addressing your comment that suggested that Garner was harassed inappropriately because of his race. Specifically: "I don't feel like wasting my time to go unpack the whole "Garner was/wasn't killed because he was black" thing, but I'm sure that they don't go after every single person that sells loose cigarettes in the same manner as they went after Garner."If you don't see a problem, they why thedid you bring it up? Oh right, you just want to talk shit about De Blasio.
To quote Msut77: "That's not an argument."
Fallacy: Changing the goalposts, straw man.
Fallacies: Attacking the authority / character, hasty generalization, red herring . . . I'm sure there's more here.Considering the kind of cops and policing that come out of Maricopa?.YES. But hey, since you know absolutely jack shit about Maricopa County, I should just take your word for it because
Fallacy: Burden of Proof
Fallacy: Affirming the Consequent
That's not what they are at all. They're training exercises to show how to control situations and which behaviors are dangerous and should not be allowed. Maybe that's not conveyed extremely well in the news story because like I said, these are civilians who are probably just interpreting them as "wow, this is scary" rather than "wow, I should have controlled that differently".
Great, now you're saying I'm strawmanning because NOW you want to get back to talking shit about De Blasio's comments? Do you have some sort of OCD thing about tossing out accusations of fallacies? Just because you profess to being a cop doesn't mean you're some sort of master debater or have a monopoly on reason and logic. The fact that you have consistently said that you don't know shit about something while, at the same time, insisting that you should be taken as some sort of authority is really making me
Googling the stats on Stop and Frisk too tough for you? And neither of them actually got full control of the gun, so yeah, they WEREN'T armed.
Fallacy: Ad Hominem
I'm glad you found some humor in my post, which was the point. :lol:Fallacy: Ad Hominem
Fallacy: Ad Hominem
I don't think that having proportionate racial representation would be as effective as having cops that come out of communities they're policing, but it's a start. It doesn't matter what race you are if the culture of "busting heads and letting the courts sort it out" persists. Kinda like how the LAPD had a good number of black cops, but it was still a shitty department until the feds stepped in. That said, I'm a HUGE fan of community policing. The organization I work for actually does a lot of work in that particular area along with collaborating with other local community organizations and businesses. It might or might not surprise you that the police that attend these police dialogue events are very receptive as well as the teens that hold the events.
I agree, but there's some problems with trying to implement this. I'm going to go over this in my next post (separate from this one).
If that was the case, wouldn't there be a lot more police brutality allegations and cases? There are roughly 780,000 law enforcement officers nationwide. I'd think that if the culture was "busting heads and letting the courts sort it out", there'd be a lot more
We agree somewhere! Hooray! I'm a big fan of Brimfield Police Department (in Ohio) and similar police organizations that are close to the community. Sadly though, in areas with high crime, that style of policing is near impossible. Budgets are too tight to take officers off from responding to calls.
[SIZE=14.3999996185303px]I agree with that...and like I said, I could see it doing more harm than good in the long run anyway. I guess the biggest positive I could see about it is similar to people wanting a physician that is the same gender as them. Ultimately, you don't want someone making you uncomfortable...for whatever reason. [/SIZE]
Chief Oliver is awesome.
