NBA rejects EA's initial bid for exclusivity

[quote name='tholly'][quote name='AdamInPlaidum']One has no farther to look than Pro Wrestling to see that lack of competitors lessens the product value, henceforth lowering the number of consumers. During the peak of the Monday night wars, 20 million households were tuning in for either Nitro or Raw. Now It's down to 3-4 million.[/quote]

you cant blame that on a video game

people are probably just loosing interest

wrestling was awesome when i was little...now its just a joke of a man's soap opera, which is why i quit watching it....it became TOO fake

hopefully its gonna be a dying fad that has been around way to long already[/quote]

I don't even think you read his statement. he is not blaming a video game but lack of competition. He is comparing the buy outs of WCW/ECW by the WWF (at the time) to that of today's video game market with EA buying everyone and every license.
 
[quote name='hiccupleftovers'][quote name='tholly'][quote name='AdamInPlaidum']One has no farther to look than Pro Wrestling to see that lack of competitors lessens the product value, henceforth lowering the number of consumers. During the peak of the Monday night wars, 20 million households were tuning in for either Nitro or Raw. Now It's down to 3-4 million.[/quote]

you cant blame that on a video game

people are probably just loosing interest

wrestling was awesome when i was little...now its just a joke of a man's soap opera, which is why i quit watching it....it became TOO fake

hopefully its gonna be a dying fad that has been around way to long already[/quote]

I don't even think you read his statement. he is not blaming a video game but lack of competition. He is comparing the buy outs of WCW/ECW by the WWF (at the time) to that of today's video game market with EA buying everyone and every license.[/quote]

That not a very good comparison though. There were only two competitors in wrestling while there are a lot more in the video game industry. Even with the NFL license there will still be other football games coming out.
 
in the short run, this probably won't affect most of informed gamers. We all know that the license won't really matter. The problem is, most of the mindless masses will pick madden over sega simply because the sega is missing the 'NFL' name.

This new acquisition by EA is going to get more people to buy their games and hurt their competition. Without an 'official' license, it loses ALOT of its realness to SOME people. That is the main reason people buy these games. If they want an arcady game, they go with NFL street or Blitz.

I know most people here are smart enough to know that even without a license it is still the same great game, but not everyone will think so.

On topic: great news for the NBA, but I feel its only a matter of time.
 
[quote name='alongx'][quote name='Death2Sanity']As long as it's one of the best football games on the market, then it won't be much competition to begin with.

No, I don't, but I don't see that as EA's problem. I see that as the problem that the marketing execs will have to face within Sega Inc. It can be done, but it'll take some effort. But, if EA is making no effort, as everybody seems to think they will behave...then it can be done. I think so, anyway.[/quote]

I think you have some serious flaws in your argument. Namely the fact that you seem to be insisting that Madden is "one of the best football games". Maybe it's "one of the best", but it certainly isn't THE best - for a few years now, Sega Sports' football games have gotten better scores across the boards, and this year ESPN Football cost less than half the price.

Yeah, it's not EA's problem. It's our problem. EA hasn't improved any of their big franchises in any significant way since 2001, with the exception of the addition of online modes. EA hasn't made an effort to really improve their titles in a while, whereas Sega has, and Sega still sells shitty.

Not only can most people not see past the NFL licensing, they can't see past the damned Madden brand.[/quote]

Yeah, Crib mode was so innovative, playing air hockey was way too good to pass up. Playing against celebrities was also really cool and innovative. I really want to tell my players what to practice and get a ratings boost for that game next week. I haven't been able to get into the controls when I've played, so I've stuck with Madden.

The Playmaker controls made it easy to alter the play on the fly, as well as adding a lot to the realism of the game. The owner mode made you think about the business side of the team, not just how many 90+ rated players you could get. It added a new dimension to the franchise mode and added a lot of control to your team. If you didn't like it, you could turn it off.

I'm not dissing ESPN, it's done extremely well. Madden and ESPN were pretty much equals this year and it was really up to the taste of the gamer. I'm not surprised that ESPN didn't sell all that well, Madden is a big franchise, a la Halo, Mario, Zelda, etc. where it's fans will choose that over an equal game because they are more familiar with it.

from gamerankings.com:
Madden 2003(PS2) - 91.3%
ESPN NFL 2K3(PS2) - 87.6%
Madden 2004(PS2) - 90.9%
ESPN NFL Football(PS2) - 87.6%
Madden 2005(PS2) - 90.1%
ESPN NFL 2K5(PS2) - 89.2%

Not saying anything bad, or anything good about either with this, just posting it for future references. Just because you think ESPN was better over these years doesn't make it a fact, it's an opinion. I applaud your ability to like ESPN over Madden, you should be able to do the opposite.
 
[quote name='greendj27']

That not a very good comparison though. There were only two competitors in wrestling while there are a lot more in the video game industry. Even with the NFL license there will still be other football games coming out.[/quote]

yeah...like nfl gameday and nfl fever :roll:

its sega and ea, no matter how you slice it.
 
[quote name='punqsux'][quote name='greendj27']

That not a very good comparison though. There were only two competitors in wrestling while there are a lot more in the video game industry. Even with the NFL license there will still be other football games coming out.[/quote]

yeah...like nfl gameday and nfl fever :roll:

its sega and ea, no matter how you slice it.[/quote]

Sega could come out with a college game instead like they do for basketball. Not too mention Blitz:playmakers. There will be some options and maybe some surprises from other companies.
 
[quote name='CrashSpyro123']Just because you think ESPN was better over these years doesn't make it a fact, it's an opinion. I applaud your ability to like ESPN over Madden, you should be able to do the opposite.[/quote]

I never said in my original post that I liked either ESPN or Madden. In fact, I detest the genre as a whole. Also, I didn't look up scores from gamerankings, I just checked Gamespot, which I happened to have been surfing at the time; I stand corrected in that allegation. My point wasn't that ESPN was better than Madden, but that Madden wasn't the best, and that, as you even were nice enough to highlight in your post, that Madden sells because of the franchise name alone. A good price, a good game, and some good press haven't helped Sega or anybody else in the past years. Not being able to use the NFL, any of its players, or any of their licenses puts a further stranglehold on the market.
 
Well regardless if EA does this I'm not TOUCHING Live for next year and Punq is right.
I remember when I first played the NBA Sega games on the Cast. I was REALLY impressed. I'll admit the graphics attracted me first but it really had a nice flow to the game and passing.
 
"if i was a huge company and i could make more money by making exclusive deals, i know i would do it and so would everyone else."

Not everyone else would. So if you have more than you need/could ever really spend you want even more?
 
[quote name='Death2Sanity']Oh no, EA is simply doing what any business would do, trying to make a profit. How dare they. Their employees certainly don't want the bonus.

*shrugs*[/quote]

EA is going beyond profits here. This is pure, undiluted greed, much like the Robber Barons of the 19th century. They are already the most successful publisher of all time. What they are doing is attempting to destroy the competition and have a monopoly. It's the sort of thing that gives capitalism a bad name, and is ultimately very harmful.
 
[quote name='Death2Sanity']

Take football/soccer. FIFA is licensed. Winning Eleven is not. The better game, from everything I've heard though, is Winning Eleven. It is not necessary to have the players/teams licenses in order to make a sports game, let alone a good sports game.

The ball is now in Sega's court, so to speak...or whoever wants to make a sports game. Make one better than EA's, even if you don't have the names. I only play the college games, so I'm used to typing names in.
[/quote]

I can't believe anyone would try to compare a licensed soccer game and a licensed football game in the U.S. It's not comparable, just as an earlier poster said. American football is all about the stars, the players, and the teams we love.
 
[quote name='CrashSpyro123']from gamerankings.com:
Madden 2003(PS2) - 91.3%
ESPN NFL 2K3(PS2) - 87.6%
Madden 2004(PS2) - 90.9%
ESPN NFL Football(PS2) - 87.6%
Madden 2005(PS2) - 90.1%
ESPN NFL 2K5(PS2) - 89.2%

Not saying anything bad, or anything good about either with this, just posting it for future references. Just because you think ESPN was better over these years doesn't make it a fact, it's an opinion. I applaud your ability to like ESPN over Madden, you should be able to do the opposite.[/quote]

Depends on the console. For XBOX, ESPN has been beatng Madden since ESPN 2K3 for one simple reason: Online Play. Imagine if EA was the only one making football games when Live came out. For the past 2 years we'd only be playing games offline, or likely paying a monthly fee just for EA games. Also, ESPN first person football was a gimmick, but a fun gimmick to show off to people and play every once and a blue moon. The gamerankings scores are also different

Madden 2003 (XBOX) 89.8%
ESPN NFL 2K3 (XBOX) 89.8%

Madden 2004 (XBOX) 89.4%
ESPN NFL 2K4 (XBOX) 89.3%

Madden 2005 (XBOX) 89.6%
ESPN NFL 2k5 (XBOX) 91.2%

On the XBOX, the ESPN series was the overall better game for 3 years and counting with more innovations and online play. With EA's often dodgy porting, their trying to buy up the rights to football games is definitely bad news.

I'm almost thinking this was done not only to kill the competition, but also to leverage their negotiations for upcoming next-gen consoles and fees, etc, with the various companies. The fact that your console won't have any NFL football at all unless it has EA Sports on board is pretty powerful stuff.
 
Good job NBA. I dont mind missing the NFL 2K series but I would have never bought an EA game ever again if they bought the NBA license.
 
[quote name='Ruined']Depends on the console. For XBOX, ESPN has been beatng Madden since ESPN 2K3 for one simple reason: Online Play. Imagine if EA was the only one making football games when Live came out. For the past 2 years we'd only be playing games offline, or likely paying a monthly fee just for EA games. Also, ESPN first person football was a gimmick, but a fun gimmick to show off to people and play every once and a blue moon. The gamerankings scores are also different

Madden 2003 (XBOX) 89.8%
ESPN NFL 2K3 (XBOX) 89.8%

Madden 2004 (XBOX) 89.4%
ESPN NFL 2K4 (XBOX) 89.3%

Madden 2005 (XBOX) 89.6%
ESPN NFL 2k5 (XBOX) 91.2%

On the XBOX, the ESPN series was the overall better game for 3 years and counting with more innovations and online play. With EA's often dodgy porting, their trying to buy up the rights to football games is definitely bad news.

I'm almost thinking this was done not only to kill the competition, but also to leverage their negotiations for upcoming next-gen consoles and fees, etc, with the various companies. The fact that your console won't have any NFL football at all unless it has EA Sports on board is pretty powerful stuff.[/quote]

OK, good, I wasn't completely talking out of my ass :D
 
[quote name='gmzone']First they take NFL 2K6 away from me. Now, they are trying to take the best hoops game of the past 5 years away from me too? Those bastards!!! If nothing else(and I'm totally against any monopoly), I'd say it'd be wise if Sega spent big bucks and bought out the NBA themselves. Expensive, but it would be a counter attack to EA. Is it just me, or does anyone else think if you give EA a lil' more time, they'll be building a console to compete with Sony, MS & Nintendo. Look at it - if they buy every 3rd party up, then they could easily pull support from those other 3 to support their own console.[/quote]

Thats what I came in here to say..

The thing is it would sell to. Give it time it will happen. Or they will sign and exlusive with one company and that would either be Xbox (most likely) or Sony...

EA's biggest compittion is Nintendo as far as publishing powress goes.
 
EA is really pissing me off now. I am going to have to boycott them from now on. Time to go get ESPN NBA 2k5..

EA is going to kill the sports game market so that they are the only developer and can charge $50 for all of their games and not reduce their prices until the new version arrives in stores.... Why was the NFL stupid enough to allow this to happen.... damn Madden and his connections to the NFL...
 
[quote name='tholly'][quote name='Death2Sanity']Oh no, EA is simply doing what any business would do, trying to make a profit. How dare they. Their employees certainly don't want the bonus.

*shrugs*[/quote]

exactly how i feel....i dont understand ppl getting mad at ea over business moves...i dont like the fact that ea treats their employees badly, but thats a different story..

....if i was a huge company and i could make more money by making exclusive deals, i know i would do it and so would everyone else....so, why bash on ea....i hope they get the NBA deal in spite of all the people who have chosen to bash smart business practice[/quote]

Yeah these are logical business practices, however these moves to create exclusive licensed sports products do nothing positive for the gaming community at large. All it does is create bad will among sports gamers, and demonstrate to the world that $'s dictate a medium which (at least in part) should be directed through quality production and creativity. EA epitomizes all that is wrong in the gaming world, and as such have alienated many gamers (like myself) through the use of guerilla business tactics, applied in the way they treat their employees, consumers and their competition.

By eliminating the competition, EA will not be forced to strive for perfection. I'm sure they will in the immediate future, but 5 years from now what type of product (Read: sports game, for now) is the videogame consumer going to be offered?

I'm not saying that EA produces or will produce crappy products, all I'm saying is that these business practices certainly make these concerns far more possible. And as a gamer that is a major cause for concern.
 
[quote name='Indiana']EA is really pissing me off now. I am going to have to boycott them from now on. Time to go get ESPN NBA 2k5..

EA is going to kill the sports game market so that they are the only developer and can charge $50 for all of their games and not reduce their prices until the new version arrives in stores.... Why was the NFL stupid enough to allow this to happen.... damn Madden and his connections to the NFL...[/quote]
The NFL didn't like the fact that Sega wasn't making a profit off the NFL license. The NFL thought that Sega was undermining their brand name. I'm sure EA kept on reiterating this point, and turned it into one of the driving forces for exclusivity.
 
[quote name='screwkick']"the NBA has rejected EA's initial offer"


If EA throws more money at them, that will chamge everything.[/quote]
Unless the NBA detects major disdain from EA's NFL contract, after all how many people signed petitions declaring EA the Devil?
 
Oh no....EA is trying to get them ALL. If they get NBA / NHL / MLB I will be PISSED. I'm already upset about Madden, but I'll cope with that....however, if they took away baseball or other sports too, I would be pissed.

NBA Live 2005 sucked ass, EA's baseball sucked ass (have not played NHL, but ESPN is FUN)
 
[quote name='CrashSpyro123'][quote name='alongx'][quote name='Death2Sanity']As long as it's one of the best football games on the market, then it won't be much competition to begin with.

No, I don't, but I don't see that as EA's problem. I see that as the problem that the marketing execs will have to face within Sega Inc. It can be done, but it'll take some effort. But, if EA is making no effort, as everybody seems to think they will behave...then it can be done. I think so, anyway.[/quote]

I think you have some serious flaws in your argument. Namely the fact that you seem to be insisting that Madden is "one of the best football games". Maybe it's "one of the best", but it certainly isn't THE best - for a few years now, Sega Sports' football games have gotten better scores across the boards, and this year ESPN Football cost less than half the price.

Yeah, it's not EA's problem. It's our problem. EA hasn't improved any of their big franchises in any significant way since 2001, with the exception of the addition of online modes. EA hasn't made an effort to really improve their titles in a while, whereas Sega has, and Sega still sells shitty.

Not only can most people not see past the NFL licensing, they can't see past the damned Madden brand.[/quote]

Yeah, Crib mode was so innovative, playing air hockey was way too good to pass up. Playing against celebrities was also really cool and innovative. I really want to tell my players what to practice and get a ratings boost for that game next week. I haven't been able to get into the controls when I've played, so I've stuck with Madden.

The Playmaker controls made it easy to alter the play on the fly, as well as adding a lot to the realism of the game. The owner mode made you think about the business side of the team, not just how many 90+ rated players you could get. It added a new dimension to the franchise mode and added a lot of control to your team. If you didn't like it, you could turn it off.

I'm not dissing ESPN, it's done extremely well. Madden and ESPN were pretty much equals this year and it was really up to the taste of the gamer. I'm not surprised that ESPN didn't sell all that well, Madden is a big franchise, a la Halo, Mario, Zelda, etc. where it's fans will choose that over an equal game because they are more familiar with it.

from gamerankings.com:
Madden 2003(PS2) - 91.3%
ESPN NFL 2K3(PS2) - 87.6%
Madden 2004(PS2) - 90.9%
ESPN NFL Football(PS2) - 87.6%
Madden 2005(PS2) - 90.1%
ESPN NFL 2K5(PS2) - 89.2%

Not saying anything bad, or anything good about either with this, just posting it for future references. Just because you think ESPN was better over these years doesn't make it a fact, it's an opinion. I applaud your ability to like ESPN over Madden, you should be able to do the opposite.[/quote]

Thats 2k3

2k5 lists:

ESPN had a higher ranking by about 2%
 
[quote name='6669']Well if they do get the NBA, this will prove that EA is trying to create a monopoly, which means that the government can step in and stop them.[/quote]

::IANAL:: Unfortunately, I don't think that would be the case. EA is simply snatching up liscenses to make their games more appealing compared to a non-liscensed game. If EA bought the rights to the sport of football and basketball (Probobly only a matter of time :cry: ) then that would be a monopoly. While I don't agree with EA's practices, I don't think there is anything stopping them
 
[quote name='screwkick']"the NBA has rejected EA's initial offer"


If EA throws more money at them, that will chamge everything.[/quote]

Maybe not.

Look at the (apparent) incredibly negative reaction to the EA/NFL exclusivity deal. Considering that a decent portion of the target audience - us gamers - is incredibly unhappy with the contract, it's possible that the NBA decided to avoid entering any kind of exclusive deal to earn some goodwill among us gamers.

Besides...it's not like the NBA needs money. If they're happy with the current setup, then why change it?

I'm hoping that this will be the end of the story; after all, as big as they are, there's only so much money that EA can throw at one license.

If the situation changes, though, and the deal goes through...well, I've still got my copies of NBA Jam TE for my Genesis and NBA Courtside 2 for my N64. I'll survive without EA nicely. :)
 
[quote name='Ruined']hmm think its time for me to invest in another NBA game, wats the best non-EA arcade-style NBA game?[/quote]

NBA Hangtime for N64. Best game ever.
 
The worst part of capitalism is that if a company won't sell out, they can be forced to with a hostile takeover.

Microsoft got attacked for standardising the operating system.

What EA is doing is actually an attempt to form a momopoly, so they should get OWNED.
 
If licenses do not matter, why can I still find brand new, sealed copies of Power Move Pro Wrestling?

myke.
...wonders when EA will finish their hostile takeover of Ubisoft.
 
You monopoly theorists are misguided. EA buying the licensing rights to any sports organization is NOT a 'monopoly', it's a licensing agreement. You people are acting out of pure emotion and absence of rational thought. The NFL OWNS their game and the associated names and images. They have every right to 'sell' the trademarks to anyone they choose.

Have you ever thought of blaming the NFL and staging a boycott? After all, THEY are the ones who sold out, EA was just there to hand over the money. How about NOT buying that Tom Brady jersey, the Budweiser beer, the endzone ticket. How about NOT watching the games on TV and purposefully not supporting their advertisers. What if Sega was the one to pony up to the NFL, would you be trashing them too? I doubt it because you people were EA haters to begin with and will trumpet anything that substantiates your cause. In this case, however, your cause is baseless.

Comparing football games to the licensed and unlicensed soccer games is a perfect analogy. Yes, football and soccer are different, but the principle is the same. EA is the only one to publish a Tiger Woods Golf game, but has that stopped others from competing in the golf market? No. Perhaps this will fuel Sega to create a MAJOR innovation in sports gaming instead of the yearly patchwork done in this generation.

No one could prevent another Joe Montana football game, a troy aikman one, or another Shaq-fu game from coming to market. All that's exclusive are the player names and the NFL trademarks, not the game itself. Boycotting Madden 200x is a great idea if you disagree with the NFL and EA. Crying 'monopoly' only shows your naivity of the concepts of ownership, copyrights, trademarks, and the free marketplace.
 
[quote name='ananag112']Or you can hurt EA by downloading NBA Live 2006 for the PC.[/quote]

So because you don't like what a company is doing, you are going to steal from them. Nice morals. :roll:

If people are upset and want to boycott or even buy the games used so EA doesn't get the money, that's one thing. Committing a crime to "get back" at them makes you no better. If EA is so bad, at least be better person than them.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']If licenses do not matter, why can I still find brand new, sealed copies of Power Move Pro Wrestling?

myke.
...wonders when EA will finish their hostile takeover of Ubisoft.[/quote]


liscensing doesnt matter....ive never played it, but its probably just a bad game

good games sell, no matter what licenses they used
 
[quote name='bmulligan']You monopoly theorists are misguided. EA buying the licensing rights to any sports organization is NOT a 'monopoly', it's a licensing agreement. You people are acting out of pure emotion and absence of rational thought. The NFL OWNS their game and the associated names and images. They have every right to 'sell' the trademarks to anyone they choose.

Have you ever thought of blaming the NFL and staging a boycott? After all, THEY are the ones who sold out, EA was just there to hand over the money. How about NOT buying that Tom Brady jersey, the Budweiser beer, the endzone ticket. How about NOT watching the games on TV and purposefully not supporting their advertisers. What if Sega was the one to pony up to the NFL, would you be trashing them too? I doubt it because you people were EA haters to begin with and will trumpet anything that substantiates your cause. In this case, however, your cause is baseless.

Comparing football games to the licensed and unlicensed soccer games is a perfect analogy. Yes, football and soccer are different, but the principle is the same. EA is the only one to publish a Tiger Woods Golf game, but has that stopped others from competing in the golf market? No. Perhaps this will fuel Sega to create a MAJOR innovation in sports gaming instead of the yearly patchwork done in this generation.

No one could prevent another Joe Montana football game, a troy aikman one, or another Shaq-fu game from coming to market. All that's exclusive are the player names and the NFL trademarks, not the game itself. Boycotting Madden 200x is a great idea if you disagree with the NFL and EA. Crying 'monopoly' only shows your naivity of the concepts of ownership, copyrights, trademarks, and the free marketplace.[/quote]


very well stated and backed up....THANK YOU
 
Good news, but I have the feeling EA is on a takeover rampage. They're going to go after more than they have.
 
[quote name='tholly'][quote name='mykevermin']If licenses do not matter, why can I still find brand new, sealed copies of Power Move Pro Wrestling?

myke.
...wonders when EA will finish their hostile takeover of Ubisoft.[/quote]


liscensing doesnt matter....ive never played it, but its probably just a bad game

good games sell, no matter what licenses they used[/quote]

Its competition at the time was WWF: In Your House. It's actually a very good (but not very deep) wrestling game, from New Japan Pro Wrestling (stripped of the license, of course). It was the very first 3D pro wrestling game on the market, and it failed miserably.

I think this naive concept that "good games sell, no matter what licenses they used" is what fuels the EA apologists. Part of our collective frustrations at EA is not necessarily due to the exclusive agreement giving them an unfair advantage over their counterparts (although I believe that to be true). It's based on the premise that consumers are idiots (something businesses would agree with), and are more likely to purchase a licensed piece of shit than an unlicensed game of any sort (good or bad). The soccer games are an okay analogy, but since soccer is less popular than shuffleboard in the United States, and American Football likewise in Europe, I don't think that we'll be able to really use that comparison well.

Power Move Pro Wrestling - sold shit.
WWF Warzone - sold millions.

Regrettably, from this point on I'd be devling into opinions about one game's inherent superiority over others. I will say, however, to prove my point about the consumer's idiocy: Acclaim lasted how long selling licensed pieces of shit? If you believe the consumer has distinctive tastes, and is able to discern between high and poor quality games regardless of licenses, how in the world did Acclaim make it past the lifespan of the NES?

To reiterate, consumers = stupid. Next July, watch them line up, $59.99 (plus tax) in hand, ready to purchase Madden 2006, no questions asked.

myke.
...cynic.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']You monopoly theorists are misguided. EA buying the licensing rights to any sports organization is NOT a 'monopoly', it's a licensing agreement. You people are acting out of pure emotion and absence of rational thought. The NFL OWNS their game and the associated names and images. They have every right to 'sell' the trademarks to anyone they choose.

Have you ever thought of blaming the NFL and staging a boycott? After all, THEY are the ones who sold out, EA was just there to hand over the money. How about NOT buying that Tom Brady jersey, the Budweiser beer, the endzone ticket. How about NOT watching the games on TV and purposefully not supporting their advertisers. What if Sega was the one to pony up to the NFL, would you be trashing them too? I doubt it because you people were EA haters to begin with and will trumpet anything that substantiates your cause. In this case, however, your cause is baseless.

Comparing football games to the licensed and unlicensed soccer games is a perfect analogy. Yes, football and soccer are different, but the principle is the same. EA is the only one to publish a Tiger Woods Golf game, but has that stopped others from competing in the golf market? No. Perhaps this will fuel Sega to create a MAJOR innovation in sports gaming instead of the yearly patchwork done in this generation.

No one could prevent another Joe Montana football game, a troy aikman one, or another Shaq-fu game from coming to market. All that's exclusive are the player names and the NFL trademarks, not the game itself. Boycotting Madden 200x is a great idea if you disagree with the NFL and EA. Crying 'monopoly' only shows your naivity of the concepts of ownership, copyrights, trademarks, and the free marketplace.[/quote]

Well put. I have trying to tell people that the NFL should be getting brunt of criticism and not EA. I think the NFL did a disservice to its fans by going into this agreement with EA. Although I purchased Madden the previous three years, I bought ESPN NFL 2K5 this year and enjoyed it a great deal. I also played Madden 2005 with my future brother-in-lawthis year. Both games were really good. I still prefer Madden but ESPN deserves to use the NFL license as it put out a high quality product this year.

[quote name='ananag112']Thank God. ESPN NBA 2K5>NBA Live 2005 IMO.[/quote]

Amen to that. I have played both this year and NBA Live doesn't play anything like real basketball. It has unrealistic physics, worse graphics, unrealistic gameplay (no lead passes) and worse control. I did enjoy the dunk contest though. ESPN simply plays like a real basketball game. ESPN still needs work on the post game (the drop steps aren't very smooth) and some of the non-calls on traveling. But overall is it a superior playing game.
 
[quote name='mykevermin'][quote name='tholly'][quote name='mykevermin']If licenses do not matter, why can I still find brand new, sealed copies of Power Move Pro Wrestling?

myke.
...wonders when EA will finish their hostile takeover of Ubisoft.[/quote]


liscensing doesnt matter....ive never played it, but its probably just a bad game

good games sell, no matter what licenses they used[/quote]

Its competition at the time was WWF: In Your House. It's actually a very good (but not very deep) wrestling game, from New Japan Pro Wrestling (stripped of the license, of course). It was the very first 3D pro wrestling game on the market, and it failed miserably.

I think this naive concept that "good games sell, no matter what licenses they used" is what fuels the EA apologists. Part of our collective frustrations at EA is not necessarily due to the exclusive agreement giving them an unfair advantage over their counterparts (although I believe that to be true). It's based on the premise that consumers are idiots (something businesses would agree with), and are more likely to purchase a licensed piece of shit than an unlicensed game of any sort (good or bad). The soccer games are an okay analogy, but since soccer is less popular than shuffleboard in the United States, and American Football likewise in Europe, I don't think that we'll be able to really use that comparison well.

Power Move Pro Wrestling - sold shit.
WWF Warzone - sold millions.

Regrettably, from this point on I'd be devling into opinions about one game's inherent superiority over others. I will say, however, to prove my point about the consumer's idiocy: Acclaim lasted how long selling licensed pieces of shit? If you believe the consumer has distinctive tastes, and is able to discern between high and poor quality games regardless of licenses, how in the world did Acclaim make it past the lifespan of the NES?

To reiterate, consumers = stupid. Next July, watch them line up, $59.99 (plus tax) in hand, ready to purchase Madden 2006, no questions asked.

myke.
...cynic.[/quote]

the man speaks the truth, power move OWNED( 1st game i got for my playstation back in 96) and sold like total shit. people buy licensed crap over quality products.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']You monopoly theorists are misguided. EA buying the licensing rights to any sports organization is NOT a 'monopoly', it's a licensing agreement. You people are acting out of pure emotion and absence of rational thought. The NFL OWNS their game and the associated names and images. They have every right to 'sell' the trademarks to anyone they choose.

Have you ever thought of blaming the NFL and staging a boycott? After all, THEY are the ones who sold out, EA was just there to hand over the money. How about NOT buying that Tom Brady jersey, the Budweiser beer, the endzone ticket. How about NOT watching the games on TV and purposefully not supporting their advertisers. What if Sega was the one to pony up to the NFL, would you be trashing them too? I doubt it because you people were EA haters to begin with and will trumpet anything that substantiates your cause. In this case, however, your cause is baseless.

Comparing football games to the licensed and unlicensed soccer games is a perfect analogy. Yes, football and soccer are different, but the principle is the same. EA is the only one to publish a Tiger Woods Golf game, but has that stopped others from competing in the golf market? No. Perhaps this will fuel Sega to create a MAJOR innovation in sports gaming instead of the yearly patchwork done in this generation.

No one could prevent another Joe Montana football game, a troy aikman one, or another Shaq-fu game from coming to market. All that's exclusive are the player names and the NFL trademarks, not the game itself. Boycotting Madden 200x is a great idea if you disagree with the NFL and EA. Crying 'monopoly' only shows your naivity of the concepts of ownership, copyrights, trademarks, and the free marketplace.[/quote]
Your 100% correct this is not a monopoly, just shrewd guerilla marketing, and a major reason for this agreement (as I stated earlier) is the reduced price of NFL 2K5. That aside, you are correct that individual players are able to sign on to other football games, however you still wont be able to use players who do not sign contracts allowing their likeliness in a game, and official teams will NOT be allowed to sign onto said games.

The next iteration of football games will be incredibly interesting to monitor. The 2K series will need to evolve even more than they have in the past, while EA will (more likely then not) rest on their laurels, and reduce production costs. These coming years will show what gamers truly care about, I just hope that Sega (or VC) does what I think needs to be done.
 
[quote name='oddjob93']
Your 100% correct this is not a monopoly, just shrewd guerilla marketing, and a major reason for this agreement (as I stated earlier) is the reduced price of NFL 2K5. [/quote]

No, the NFL decided they wanted somone to have an exclusive license. EA put in the highgest bid. Unless the NFL is hiding something, this has nothing to do with Sega's $20 price.
 
[quote name='greendj27'][quote name='oddjob93']
Your 100% correct this is not a monopoly, just shrewd guerilla marketing, and a major reason for this agreement (as I stated earlier) is the reduced price of NFL 2K5. [/quote]

No, the NFL decided they wanted somone to have an exclusive license. EA put in the highgest bid. Unless the NFL is hiding something, this has nothing to do with Sega's $20 price.[/quote]

You are wrong. The NFL allowed EA to buy an exclusive license after EA courted them (not the other way around, as you had suggested) about it because games like ESPN football and NFL Fever do not move enough units to make the NFL much money. Part of the reason that the NBA didn't agree to sell exclusivity rights to EA (yet) is because games like the ESPN NBA series sell well enough to prove profitable for the NBA.
 
Tholly: Remember when EA didn't get (and/or lost, can't remember) the NFL license back in the N64 days? Madden got crushed by Quaterback Club that year on Nintendo's system. The license really does matter in todays game socity unfortunately.
 
[quote name='alongx'][quote name='greendj27'][quote name='oddjob93']
Your 100% correct this is not a monopoly, just shrewd guerilla marketing, and a major reason for this agreement (as I stated earlier) is the reduced price of NFL 2K5. [/quote]

No, the NFL decided they wanted somone to have an exclusive license. EA put in the highgest bid. Unless the NFL is hiding something, this has nothing to do with Sega's $20 price.[/quote]

You are wrong. The NFL allowed EA to buy an exclusive license after EA courted them (not the other way around, as you had suggested) about it because games like ESPN football and NFL Fever do not move enough units to make the NFL much money. Part of the reason that the NBA didn't agree to sell exclusivity rights to EA (yet) is because games like the ESPN NBA series sell well enough to prove profitable for the NBA.[/quote]

Where does it say that? In fact the article on ESPN quotes an NFL official who says, We chose EA......blah, blah.

ESPN Link

Also, because of the price point, ESPN sold about as well as Madden this year.
 
[quote name='greendj27']

Also, because of the price point, ESPN sold about as well as Madden this year.[/quote]

Is this true? I had read that Madden still outsold ESPN, although the margin wasnt as wide. Anyone have a link to the actual sales figures?
 
[quote name='chickenhawk'][quote name='greendj27']

Also, because of the price point, ESPN sold about as well as Madden this year.[/quote]

Is this true? I had read that Madden still outsold ESPN, although the margin wasnt as wide. Anyone have a link to the actual sales figures?[/quote]

If I recall, the ratio was 3:4. ESPN sold 3 units for every 4 Maddens sold. That's ***really*** too close for EA's comfort level.

For those who think the NFL spontaneously decided to go with one license, those who argue that ESPN's pricepoint had nothing to do with it are correct. There was an initial meeting earlier this year about NFL going exclusive, prior to Sega announcing the price of its sports games.

But to those who think EA had nothing to do with initiating it, you're dead wrong. EA is a street-walking whore, wearing dollar bills as a miniskirt and tank top. EA dangled the carrot first (I need to find my source on that). NFL is guilty, damn skippy, but EA, for lack of a better phrase, was "asking for it."

myke.
 
But it doesn't matter who initiated the deal, BOTH parties agreed to it so they're equally culpable.

Maybe now we'll finally get a remake of Mutant League Football. See, there's always a silver lining!
 
Why would we get a sequel to Mutant League Football? It's made by EA. EA doesn't have to serve but one football game up a year, because there will be little to no competition. Now, I'm probably going to buy Blitz: Playmakers from Midway because 1) To make a statement 2) It looks pretty interesting and 3) Blitz is a fun game. As for 2K6, if it does come out without players, stadiums, etc., the casual gamer and even many hardcore gamers won't pick it up at any price point because it'll be missing the real teams, players, etc.

As for EA, it definately looks like it's trying to off the competition at every angle. If you truly want to send a message though, other CAG'ers are correct, when they say boycott the NFL. Bottom line - NFL sold out. I would not be happy if the NFL, NBA, etc. sold out to any one company, because it means no competition. It also means no choice for the consumer.
 
BTW, Madden 2005 sold 3 million units this year, while 2K5 sold 2 million. Very close. I don't think it's crazy to say that EA may have bought some of it's stellar reviews this year. I say that knowing full well, that I enjoyed Madden 2004, NBA Live 2005. And, I've enjoyed EA games back in the past - the Strike series comes to mind. But, as for Triple Play Baseball(now MVP Baseball), I never enjoyed it. Madden was up and down for me, mostly down. I hadn't really played a good NBA game till NBA 2K(Live 95 was OK). I didn't count Arcadey basketball games in there.
But, I liked Gameday back in the PS1 days(99 and 00' editions), and I was even hoping they'd make a comeback one day. Having 2, 3, 4 basketball games or football games is a good thing. EA throwing their weight around is a bad thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top