Pro Wrestling discussion topic--WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, New Japan, indies

I don't know what happened, but I was largely unimpressed. I really wanted to be, but couldn't get into it all night, even the should-be-hype last match of the night. Maybe I'm getting burned out?

 
tonyxvx said:
WWE is cancelling Talking Smack. What the hell is wrong with this company?
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I saw that earlier today and wondered the same. The Talking Smack show allowed wrestlers to hone their interview/promo skills at the very least. The Miz basically put on a promo clinic when he went after Daniel Bryan. The show allowed the Smack Down talent roster to sharpen their skills and build up their matches post show. I thought it was a great way to promote Smack Down's roster given the 2 hour show vs Raw's 3 hours for instance.

Not sure if it had something to do with Renee Young or not.

 
Maybe their ratings showed that few people watched it?

I enjoyed it, too, but largely watched it very passively.

With SD and 205 Live preceding it, that's a lot of programming to watch in a row (more than Raw), and I suspect live ratings weren't enough to justify keeping people at the arena past midnight (and paying all the labor/usage fees associated with that).

WWE is very much a corporation, and their products are assets. If those assets don't perform, then it doesn't surprise me that they get cut/canceled. Do understand that I did enjoy the show, but from what I know of how WWE operates, they wouldn't cut something if it was meeting their corporate goals for it.

(I'm not speaking of talent, by and large.)

 
mykevermin said:
Maybe their ratings showed that few people watched it?

I enjoyed it, too, but largely watched it very passively.

With SD and 205 Live preceding it, that's a lot of programming to watch in a row (more than Raw), and I suspect live ratings weren't enough to justify keeping people at the arena past midnight (and paying all the labor/usage fees associated with that).

WWE is very much a corporation, and their products are assets. If those assets don't perform, then it doesn't surprise me that they get cut/canceled. Do understand that I did enjoy the show, but from what I know of how WWE operates, they wouldn't cut something if it was meeting their corporate goals for it.

(I'm not speaking of talent, by and large.)
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I want to say you're right, but the ol internet rumor machine says it's because the unscripted nature of the show was becoming a liability or something along those lines and Vince felt like it wasn't in the company's best interests. Either way, it sucks. Seems like they're slowing watering down Smackdown to just Raw-lite again.

 
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tonyxvx said:
I want to say you're right, but the ol internet rumor machine says it's because the unscripted nature of the show was becoming a liability or something along those lines and Vince felt like it wasn't in the company's best interests. Either way, it sucks. Seems like they're slowing watering down Smackdown to just Raw-lite again.
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I Kinda believe the rumors only because I forget which podcast it was, but Triple H was discussing how house shows they really aren't making too much of a profit from them and if anything are used as a practice grounds for wrestlers to try new gimmicks or test the waters with new feuds or character work. I See Talking Smack as no different since it made a world of difference for people like The Miz and gave alot more personality to people like Alexa Bliss. Hell, because of that show I definitely see people like Renee Young as having more authority after Shane and Daniel Bryan.

And is American Alpha breaking up another reason to declare tag wrestling dead in the WWE?

 
Sielanas said:
At least Alpha got a brief run with the title. As long as The Revival still exist there's a chance.
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Like two months or so in NXT and two weeks or so on Smackdown? Also I hate to poke logic at wrestling, but how could Angle having an illegitimate child cost him his job? I Fail to understand that logic of all things. Zombies coming back for the sole purpose of wrestling. Got it. Male multi million dollar super model out to make his living as a police man officer and a wrestler? We cool. But him having what is believed to be consensual sex several decades ago and having a child he had no idea of isn't worth firing his job. With the way this was hyped for months and knowing it was going to be Jason Jordan, I thought we were going to have a horribly twisted follow up to that creepy Kurt Angle stalking Sharmel storyline.

 
You know i was expecting that to be Kurt Angles secret but i though it was gonna be Chad Gable being his kid. But sucks that American Alpha are over. Also I love how that idiot Ryback is already saying he was supposed to be Kurt Angles kid.

 
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I'm super tempted to go, but cheapies for Battleground nearly double in price when fees are added in. A $25 ticket costs $48. That is, to borrow from Carlito, not cool.

 
bardockkun said:
Like two months or so in NXT and two weeks or so on Smackdown? Also I hate to poke logic at wrestling, but how could Angle having an illegitimate child cost him his job? I Fail to understand that logic of all things. Zombies coming back for the sole purpose of wrestling. Got it. Male multi million dollar super model out to make his living as a police man officer and a wrestler? We cool. But him having what is believed to be consensual sex several decades ago and having a child he had no idea of isn't worth firing his job. With the way this was hyped for months and knowing it was going to be Jason Jordan, I thought we were going to have a horribly twisted follow up to that creepy Kurt Angle stalking Sharmel storyline.
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The job part was weird, but what really got me was how hard they were hammering in that it could besmirch his status as an Olympic Gold Medalist.

Also this storyline would have been WAY better if they made it so that Jason Jordan knew his entire life that Kurt Angle was his real father, and that's why he became an amateur/pro wrestler and why he uses the ankle lock. He's trying to constantly get his dad's approval, and Kurt just ignores him. Then after weeks and weeks he reveals he's his son, and they have a match at Summerslam. Now that'd be entertaining.

 
mykevermin said:
I'm super tempted to go, but cheapies for Battleground nearly double in price when fees are added in. A $25 ticket costs $48. That is, to borrow from Carlito, not cool.
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Interesting, since I read that due to poor sales they were offering heavy discounts.
 
mykevermin said:
Discounts on the ticket prices, *yes*. Notsomuch on the fees, though.

I'm stubborn about that sort of thing.
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I Respect this. Same reason why for every show I go to I just go to the venue in the morning on a weekend to get passes. I Can't imagine that main event being anything worth staying for though.

 
Watching G1 Climax and man, I'm really happy that Zach Sabre Jr is in NJPW. Him being in Suzuki-gun has really helped his character into making him into just a relentless force that breaks down his opponent's with everything they throw at him. I'm eager to see how Japanese fans take to him the longer he's there since his counter style is like no one else on the roster.
 
bardockkun said:
I Respect this. Same reason why for every show I go to I just go to the venue in the morning on a weekend to get passes. I Can't imagine that main event being anything worth staying for though.
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Cheapies are down to $38 after fees on stubhub, so I think I'm gonna go.

There's a certain charm about the punjabi prison match and the opportunity to see it live. I don't expect to see a mat classic, but that's not Mahal's style or Orton's style. It's going to be a spectacle more than a match, and I'm fine with that. There's a lot of dudes on this card who I haven't seen in ages (the last time I saw Nakamura live was when he toured on one of the ROH/NJPW "War of the World" shows at the ECW Arena, about 2-3 years ago now?).

I have been hooked on NJPW since last year - mostly astonished at how they've grown as a promotion despite losing Styles/Nakamura/Gun&Gallows the month after their biggest show of the year in 2016 - and *improve* as a promotion. So many great wrestlers to watch. Omega, Kushida, Ishii - it's great.

I don't get ZSJ as a member of Suzukigun given who they are and what they represent, but his style is such a thrill to watch.

I don't get how Hiromu Takahashi managed to get a *stuffed cat* over, but sure enough he has.

I even think Toru Yano is hilarious to watch. But yeah, NJPW is knocking it out of the park night after night this year. BOSJ was a thrill to watch, and G1 is shaping up to be amazing Kota Ibushi vs Tetsuya Naito was heavy, Minori Suzuki (one of my absolute favorites to watch right now) and Kenny Omega had a match that Jim Cornette himself would have to admit was excellent, and there have been several others.

Speaking of ZSJ, he was a guest in-house at Chikara a few weeks back for our first Johnny Kidd invitational (definitely recommend finding and watching some old Kidd matches from World of Sport in the 1980's, btw). Here's a free match we released featuring him taking on Rory Gulak from that event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asFKq9ltxhI

 
I Personally don't understand Taichi and Taka (let alone with Miho Abe in the mix) in Suzuki Gun more than ZSJ, but I think it works. I Personally see as it stands right now with ZSJ in Suzuki Gun is he's growing into more of a mini Minori Suzuki. They both go for a body part and relentlessly attack it with submissions, but  ZSJ has more of a crisp and quick move set with countering and using their offense compared to Suzuki is tough as nails and just lets them wear them out or make them think they have the upper hand along with nonstop dirty tactics.

Toru Yano is like a Japanese Bobby Moynihan from Saturday Night Live everytime I watch him. It's odd, like an exact racial doppelganger.

And I gotta say, Ishii is becoming one of my favorite NJPW wrestlers. Guy is under 6' tall, but the way he carries himself and strength and just his facial expression, he feels like a 6'5 400 pounder. And I'll never get tired of Japanese announcers yelling "LARIATOOOOOOOO!!!!"

 
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I Can't imagine the Jinder and India experiment to going that well if they're doubling down on the awfulness after tonight with this brazen attempt to make anyone care...

 
ProfessorStotch said:
That was literally the most awful PPV I think they've ever done.
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I don't think it was the worst ever, but definitely in recent memory. The threshold got raised over the past couple years. Even AJ vs Owens was very meh. I guess they're just saving the good match for Summerslam? Hopefully?

 
Unless they're planning to do AJ vs Jinder hence the I'm sure rushed WWE planning of "get the US belt on Styles and have him do a US open challenge, oh wait nevermind, put it back on Owens." Because really, there's no other way you can get interest in Jinder having the belt and with Great Khali in there, it's like a black hole of charisma that it has to take some measures to make anyone give a fuck about the Smackdown title scene...Only for Baron Corbin to then become champion.

Huh, it's really, really hard to get excited for the Smackdown title scene for awhile.

 
Sad about Khali because you know he'll turn and want a title shot of his own. I was still hoping Sami would be a transitional champ to get cashed-in-on. 

After the trash of Mae Young shook my confidence I skipped most of the show last night and made the mistake of coming in for the end. I saw Sami's match and the main event and don't feel any better. I feel like I'm losing my fandom.

 
Sielanas said:
Sad about Khali because you know he'll turn and want a title shot of his own. I was still hoping Sami would be a transitional champ to get cashed-in-on.

After the trash of Mae Young shook my confidence I skipped most of the show last night and made the mistake of coming in for the end. I saw Sami's match and the main event and don't feel any better. I feel like I'm losing my fandom.
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But monster Samoa Joe in main event scene! I Mean...it's every weird nerd booking I never thought would happen, but it's happening! And hell I have to give credit to WWE for understanding and doing the weird meta-heel booking with Roman Reigns where he does subtle jabs at smarks, while they still book him as the biggest baby face to people who don't know who people like Dave Meltzer are. There are plenty of problems with the main WWE product, but I can't deny that for months now the main event scene on Raw has been straight up solid.

 
Cena vs Nakamura to become number one contender against Jinder Mahal on Smackdown next week. That's like riding a roller coaster straight to the DMV.

 
To me personally, Toru Yano's matches with Kenny Omega are just as entertaining to me as all of Kenny's 5 or 6 star matches. They're just stupidly entertaining all the way through and so well thought out with random spots.

 
It took me years to like Yano, but I'm currently really enjoying him. Been way too busy to catch up (I'm 4-6 shows behind), but this year's G1 can't be beat in terms of match quality. They're simply unparalleled.

How many of you follow indy wrestling outside ROH? i.e. Evolve, Beyond, PWG, and so on?

 
My Floslam subscription has been well worth it, same with Progress. I think I do need a break when ZSJ/Ibushi couldn't catch my interest.
 
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There is so much good wrestling to consume for sure. I'm about two weeks behind on G1 Climax, and some of those matches have been fucking *bangers*.

Was just at Beyond on Sunday and realize how some of these guys in the Evolve/Beyond/PWG/I'm sure I'm forgetting other promotions of their caliber might be off the radar of fans. Some guys at the show you've seen (Bobby Fish recently being on NXT), and some you will soon (Donovan Dijak). But if Matt Riddle isn't on your radar, or Tracy Williams, Chris Dickinson/Jaka, EYFBO, and so on - you need to try to change that. 

Joey Janela is really making a name for himself as a character, too. He's really doing something special.

Floslam is a big ask - $20/month on top of what we all already have (Netflix, WWE, Hulu, NJPWworld, HBO, Cable, and god knows what else) - but if you see Evolve coming to your area (e.g., they were just in GA the other week), buy a ticket.

 
I wish evolve would come to Cleveland, I do follow them regularly. Gotta say i'm a huge fan of Ethan Page. Luckily he along with Tracy Williams and Joey Janela tend to show up at AIW regularly.

 
Outside of NJPW and occasional Ring of Honor, I try and watch PWG whenever possible. Obvious problem is of course them only having two outlets to watch their matches (live and DVD), but whenever me and my friends pick some up from sales we do enjoy what we watch.

Though yeah, there is way too much wrestling right now that I have to be more selective than I'd like. I'd like to get into DDT Pro since it seems like alot of stupid fun from the highlights I watch.

 
I really need to get back into wrestling. With work being busy I haven't watched in some time. I do catch the results for wwe but it's not the same as watching it.

I did notice that ROH global wars is coming to Chicago so hopefully i can go to that
 
ThunderChunky62 said:
I really need to get back into wrestling. With work being busy I haven't watched in some time. I do catch the results for wwe but it's not the same as watching it.

I did notice that ROH global wars is coming to Chicago so hopefully i can go to that
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Some small indie wrestler named Kenny Ome-something will be there defending his belt. Maybe worth checking out for that. MAYBE.

 
mykevermin said:
There is so much good wrestling to consume for sure. I'm about two weeks behind on G1 Climax, and some of those matches have been fucking *bangers*.

Was just at Beyond on Sunday and realize how some of these guys in the Evolve/Beyond/PWG/I'm sure I'm forgetting other promotions of their caliber might be off the radar of fans. Some guys at the show you've seen (Bobby Fish recently being on NXT), and some you will soon (Donovan Dijak). But if Matt Riddle isn't on your radar, or Tracy Williams, Chris Dickinson/Jaka, EYFBO, and so on - you need to try to change that.

Joey Janela is really making a name for himself as a character, too. He's really doing something special.

Floslam is a big ask - $20/month on top of what we all already have (Netflix, WWE, Hulu, NJPWworld, HBO, Cable, and god knows what else) - but if you see Evolve coming to your area (e.g., they were just in GA the other week), buy a ticket.
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I'm sad Evolve doesn't run Orlando anymore. I would never pay 20/month, annual is palatable though.
 
Some G1 Climax thoughts I want to get out of my head.

-I Enjoy EVIL in the ring, but that guy has to tone down his gimmick. The whole dressing up like death when approaching the ring doesn't feel intimidating at all and just looks too theatrical (in a bad way) especially when he gets in the ring with the scythe and all.

-Bad Luck Fale and Tama Tonga have upped their heel game during this whole thing. From Fale ripping apart Daryl (and the fan's Daryl) to sweeping the leg of the announcer and other attacks. While Tama Tonga seems straight up trying to make it clear to everyone in the ring he's the heel in the match to all the shit talking to the behind the back attacks.

-Speaking of Tama Tonga, that match of his with Omega was goddamn intense! Meaning I really didn't know how it was going to end, right down to the other members of Bullet Club pleading with Kenny to Tama's shit talk to Kenny through out. By the end I had no idea where it was going to go and I love it.

-Elgin and Okada is probably my favorite match so far. Just Okada trying to figure out a way around Elgin's strength, while Elgin just doing his natural Elgin stuff. That and the crowd and the announcers just sound so damn unhinged throughout the match.

-As a man with thinning hair, I am so jealous of Tanahashi's beautiful flowing locks.

-Also I hope EVIL is okay after his last match. Holy shit.

 
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Ugh - I'm still about a week behind on shows (and since they run so often, that basically means I'm about 15 hours of footage behind.)

The emergence of Juice Robinson as a wrestler the crowd respects for his fighting spirit is definitely one of my unexpected highlights this year. I suspect they're building towards Omega/Okada as the deciding match in B-block, while A is more open, w/ ZSJ, Naito, Tanahashi, and dark horse appearance by Ishii.

It's possible that the winner of B-block (naturally either Omega or Okada) will go all the way, but I suspect we could see Naito emerge as the winner and move (back?) up into the IWGP heavyweight scene.

Not that I'll find out today, as I have 4 hours of training tonight as soon as I'm off work. :)

 
Definitely looks like it's going to come down to either Omega or Okada in B block. A block I think can go eitherway though since looking at the standings no one really stands out points wise and I can see it going a few ways. Though I am realistic in despite all his wins I know Zack Sabre Jr isn't going to hold that briefcase, as much as that would blow my goddamn mind. I Don't even know what would happen if it came down to a Golden Lovers rematch since both Ibushi and Omega have constantly said that their DDT 2012 match would be the last one because if they ever did another one they always discuss how someone will either get seriously hurt or killed in the ring if they wanted to top that.

And Juice has been constantly on the up and up. After his match with Goto he basically proved himself. I'm glad he got out of the hippie jobber that NXT forever placed him as,

 
I Know it'll get some ending where Joe interupts the whole damn thing or whatever, but hot damn I'm eager to watch that Strowman-Reigns last man standing match this Monday. For whatever problems I have with Raw (women's division is a goddamn mess, cruiserweight division is still an afterthought, questionable IC title scene), I can at least say the main event scene feels like a goddamn main event scene and hey Rollins and Ambrose are actually giving me some hope for the tag division by giving them a story that addresses things from the past instead of just ignoring it.

Also Shibata is actually doing well into recovery and is surprising doctors according to dirt sheets. So I really can't help, but be happy at this news even if he doesn't return to wrestling, since hot damn, his body of work match wise is already stupidly impressive.

 
That is some sad news. Yoshihiro Takayama was the first Japanese wrestler I was ever interested in. I'm seriously just crushed about that.

 
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