PS Vita Deals & Discussions Thread

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Since I thought the cheap 3DS games thread was a good idea. I thought I would start one for the PS Vita. I will maintain this site a few times a day going forward. Post links up to new deals and I will add them to the OP. Anyhow, here we go:

Updated 2/5/2014

Amazon:

Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational $15.50

Lumines- Electronic Symphony $18.49

MLB 12 The Show- $5.88

Silent Hill: Book of Memories- $11.68

Spy Hunter- $14.89

Gravity Rush- $18.53

Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time- $19.12

Need for Speed: Most Wanted- $15.99

Persona 4 Golden - $19.99


Best Buy:


GameStop:

Call of Duty Black Ops: Declassified $19..99 New/ $17.99 Used

 
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Certainly there is an audience for Libra on Vita, but  I don't see the support being very great without a physical release as the goal for digital is just too high for a random new VN.   They should either commit to doing a digital version and put a $$ amount that will secure that, or wait till after the game launches and they make some money from it and you know... self fund it like a lot of developers do.

Another question I would have is if they reached the goal for a digital vita version, who would be actually doing the work.  It's one thing when a dev is going to do it themselves... it's another when they are just raising the $$$ to give to yet another company to do the the work while they sit back with whatever $$ extra that the kickstarter brought in.  That's where rush jobs get done and broken unpatched games happen because now there's no more money to pay to get things fixed rather than the dev themselves being responsible and just putting in whatever hours are needed to fix their own game.

 
So I hate to post this, but I actually got a private message from the folks running the LIBRA campaign. I've been pretty vocal about drumming up support on their kickstart page as well as some other forums, and they reached out to me for ideas on how they could get more contributions. Here's what they sent me.... (Names removed)

... Anyways, we are about to release our progress update for Libra, going over how much we've raised since the end of Kickstarter and how we've done in BackerKit so far. We want to show where we are in terms of the next stretch goal.
In our last update, I had posted a screenshot of our total raised in BackerKit. Unfortunately, we realized later on that this figure is not accurate because it does not take into account

1 BackerKit fees

2 Cost of add-on production

3 How much we're actually left with to put towards the stretch goals

For Kickstarter, we had a pie-chart which displayed our fund allocation, and we've just made one for BackerKit. After some number crunching, a sharper total of how much we've actually raised has been determined.

Oh, we also took a look at how much we lost from backed droppers and pledges. There's that, too. :whistle2:/

With that said, as you might have guessed, the Vita stretch goal is MUCH further away than it seems, and we're feeling strongly that we will not come close to reaching it. So, we will be opening up feedback and suggestions on what we should do. We'd like the community to give us their opinion, but first, we wanted to contact you before the update is published.

We haven't had an overwhelming rush of Vita fans requesting BackerKit invites throughout KS/post-KS, but even so, we'd like to find a way to speak to them.

Thanks for your time, <name>-sama!

Cheers,
<Mikandi Japan Employee Name>
So....it doesn't look too good, but I did give them some ideas on being more active in the VITA communities such as the VITA reddit, partnering with other companies with successful kickstarters such as the Muv-Luv folks (even sekaiproject stepped in to publish Quantum Suicide), and also reaching out to Limitedrungames for a physical edition down the road if they can't do it in the kickstarter. We will see what they say in the next update, but as of right now it isn't looking good :/
Pretty sure no one in the "community" uses Reddit. TheVitaLounge, here, GameFAQs, but not aware of anyone using Reddit. Also, Muv Luv is being handled by the Japanese rights owners, which makes them a competitor with Onomatope/MiKandi Japan, or at the very least a contemporary, but certainly not an organization they could easily partner with to localize and/or handle the foreign release for them. Mighty Rabbit Studios (aka Limited Run Games), and FanGamer are both valid options that could assist them with the publishing side, but I'm not certain just how much assistance either could lend on to them on the actual software porting side of the equation. Not to mention I'm still waiting to see an official public post from MiKandi Japan to substantiate your claim. While not at all unexpected that some of the KS pledges would have suffered the dreaded "declined payment" at the end of the campaign, the message you've posted makes it sound as if an unprecedented amount of the pledged funding fell through, so pardon my disbelief on this matter, but I will believe it when I see it straight from the proverbial horse's mouth.

libra_of_the_vampire_princess_vita_teaser.jpg


Regardless of that quoted claim, I want to see Libra of the Vampire Princess released, physically, on the Vita. If you feel the same way I do go to this link below, login to KickStarter, click the "Follow Along" button, then send MiKandi Japan a message requesting to join the BackerKit campaign, and make a pledge to back the project, simple as that. Remember, the funding campaign ends on Fraiday March 18th, so time is of the essence! Together let's make this happen!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mikandijapan/libra-of-the-vampire-princess-visual-novel-english/description

libra_i_want_you.jpg


 
Your loyalty is commendable, but I'll wait for the aforementioned update tomorrow to see how things are going.

I want to see it on Vita physical too, but I also want to see more of an effort made, and clearer disclosure into the way they are holding themselves accountable in accomplishing this goal.

Not willing to back them  just yet until I see some sort of assurance that it can happen, but so far it seems like a pipe dream, and they're just dangling it in front of us just to get a bit more funds, but not really intending to fulfill their end of the bargain.

I hope it works out, but skepticism is still going to be a major factor in my decision making until I see them come out with some sort of a comment addressing these issues related to a physical Vita release.

Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst.

 
Pretty sure no one in the "community" uses Reddit. TheVitaLounge, here, GameFAQs, but not aware of anyone using Reddit. Also, Muv Luv is being handled by the Japanese rights owners, which makes them a competitor with Onomatope/MiKandi Japan, or at the very least a contemporary, but certainly not an organization they could easily partner with to localize and/or handle the foreign release for them. Mighty Rabbit Studios (aka Limited Run Games), and FanGamer are both valid options that could assist them with the publishing side, but I'm not certain just how much assistance either could lend on to them on the actual software porting side of the equation. Not to mention I'm still waiting to see an official public post from MiKandi Japan to substantiate your claim. While not at all unexpected that some of the KS pledges would have suffered the dreaded "declined payment" at the end of the campaign, the message you've posted makes it sound as if an unprecedented amount of the pledged funding fell through, so pardon my disbelief on this matter, but I will believe it when I see it straight from the proverbial horse's mouth.
Way a head of you! I was backing this thing after they got so close to the Vita option.... now I am just hoping there is enough to warrant interest for a physical Vita Option.... Cause I dont know if I am interested in a non Vita option : /

However my stops are always here first, gamefaqs, Sub Reddit Vita portion and now TheVitaLounge.... But I hit all four every minute of the day so I stalk everyone here alot :p I just usually Lurk cause the community got pretty nasty towards everyone 2010-2012ish :p

 
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You don't have to believe me Tweeg. Screw it, here's a screenshot of my kickstarter messages. 

 http://imgur.com/fjvEsIy

Does this "substantiate" my claim? Seriously, I don't know why you would question my integrity over a game, especially when I gain nothing by trying to pull one over on people. I'm passionate about he VITA, and wouldn't make this shit up.

Also, go look at the Vita subreddit. It's a lot larger than you think. 

 
Thoughts on Lost Dimension? I see it on amazon for $24.63 so the price doesn't look so bad I think. Need a new game after Digimon and Dungeon Travelers >.<

 
Thoughts on Lost Dimension? I see it on amazon for $24.63 so the price doesn't look so bad I think. Need a new game after Digimon and Dungeon Travelers &gt;.&lt;
Good game...loved it for about 3 hours. Took a break and played XCOM 2...now I cant play LD again since it's not good compared to X2 :(

You beat DT2?

 
Good game...loved it for about 3 hours. Took a break and played XCOM 2...now I cant play LD again since it's not good compared to X2 :(

You beat DT2?
Oh man xD I haven't played xcom2 but i did play the first game. Nearly finished. great game with c u te girls. My kind of gamee! I also been looking at Trails of Cold Steel as well. My friend has been badgering me about it for quite some time but it looks like the 40$ price tag is like frozen forever..

 
You don't have to believe me Tweeg. Screw it, here's a screenshot of my kickstarter messages.

http://imgur.com/fjvEsIy

Does this "substantiate" my claim? Seriously, I don't know why you would question my integrity over a game, especially when I gain nothing by trying to pull one over on people. I'm passionate about he VITA, and wouldn't make this shit up.

Also, go look at the Vita subreddit. It's a lot larger than you think.
Proof you are lying.

He called you Bryce-sama.

Nobody is that shameless. :D

giphy.gif


 
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You don't have to believe me Tweeg. Screw it, here's a screenshot of my kickstarter messages.

http://imgur.com/fjvEsIy

Does this "substantiate" my claim? Seriously, I don't know why you would question my integrity over a game, especially when I gain nothing by trying to pull one over on people. I'm passionate about he VITA, and wouldn't make this shit up.

Also, go look at the Vita subreddit. It's a lot larger than you think.
Yes, that works for me. Sorry if I came across a bit callus, I've been on the internet since 1998 and have had all manner of weird encounters with people making claims just for the heck of it... but never until recently had I ever experienced anyone quite so gif-ted as Squarehard.

We need to drum up as many pledging supporters for Libra of the Vampire Princess as we can muster for her majesty's vampire army!

vampire_army.jpg


Go to the link below, login to KickStarter, click the "Follow Along" button, then send MiKandi Japan a message requesting to join the BackerKit campaign, and make a pledge to back the project, simple as that. Remember, the funding campaign ends on Friday March 18th, so time is of the essence! Together let's make this happen!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mikandijapan/libra-of-the-vampire-princess-visual-novel-english/description

 
I want the 18+ Libra so you know where my loyalty lies;) though I do love more visual novels on the Vita. Maybe next year will be the year Sekai gets a game on it.

 
Yes, that works for me. Sorry if I came across a bit callus, I've been on the internet since 1998 and have had all manner of weird encounters with people making claims just for the heck of it... but never until recently had I ever experienced anyone quite so gif-ted as Squarehard.

We need to drum up as many pledging supporters for Libra of the Vampire Princess as we can muster for her majesty's vampire army!
The important thing in the end is that we're all down for more physical Vita games. :D

*excluding certain crumbums who don't! BLASPHEMY!*

*I'm just kidding, please no physical vs digital debate. SPARE ME!*

*Oh yeah, forgot something.
DZbtdPU.gif
*


 
Yes, that works for me. Sorry if I came across a bit callus, I've been on the internet since 1998 and have had all manner of weird encounters with people making claims just for the heck of it... but never until recently had I ever experienced anyone quite so gif-ted as Squarehard.

We need to drum up as many pledging supporters for Libra of the Vampire Princess as we can muster for her majesty's vampire army!

vampire_army.jpg


Go to the link below, login to KickStarter, click the "Follow Along" button, then send MiKandi Japan a message requesting to join the BackerKit campaign, and make a pledge to back the project, simple as that. Remember, the funding campaign ends on Friday March 18th, so time is of the essence! Together let's make this happen!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mikandijapan/libra-of-the-vampire-princess-visual-novel-english/description
Hey it's all good. I think we can all agree that everyone here is passionate about the Playstation Vita and want to see it succeed, even if Sony doesn't.

I put Mikandi into contact with LRG, so hopefully they will be able to work something out. Even if they were able to farm the vita version out to sekaiproject (gasp) it would be worth waiting the extra 2+ years if we did eventually get it. (Yes, that was a cheap dig at sekaiproject)

Also, I don't know if some of you are aware, but the Vita Cover Art thread here on cheapassgamer could use your help. I've started scanning all of my vita cover art but there are some that I am missing. If you wouldn't mind scanning some covers to fill the holes I have, I'd appreciate it. For those interested replacement cover art, the album link is

imgur.com/a/0As4R

The goal is ultimately get a complete collection of vita cover art scans that we can then submit to thecoverproject or another site that will host it. If you would like a list of cover art needed, please PM me!

 
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1.5 years later and Sekai Project isn't even porting Fault Milestone themselves. They will hand it off to an external company once contracts are signed. 

 
Thoughts on Lost Dimension? I see it on amazon for $24.63 so the price doesn't look so bad I think. Need a new game after Digimon and Dungeon Travelers &gt;.&lt;
I didn't expect to like it as much as I do now. I'm doing NG+ to finish up the trophies, and I'm genuinely curious to see the true ending.

 
Slacker. Was online in 94, back when you had to pay by the hour...

and then spent WAY too much time (and money) playing Duke Nukem 3D and Quake on TEN.net

http://www.ten.net/199706/html/ten_home.html
We still had our C64 setup and in use quite literally until purchasing a IBM clone running Windows 98 2nd Edition (Pentium 133MHz, 128MB RAM, 4GB HDD, 8x CD-ROM, 2MB generic GPU, 3 1/2" diskette, 56k Modem, SoundBlaster 16 Audio Card) in August of '98. And that was the family computer, meaning my parents owned it, not me. No, rather I had my very own C64 still hooked up and running my room... until late '99 when I scored a super cheap, used, IBM PC Server tower and got that up and running, the first in a lineage of used increasingly more and more powerful PCs that would sit under my desk over the years. Now on my third custom built components computers, and most expensive to date, and feeling rather spoiled about that really considering how well I use to get along with typically sub-$50 used computers in the past.

To be perfectly honest, I was oblivious to the existence of the internet until 1997. Had assumed everything was still BBS based, and had not had a working C64 acoustic coupler (that's a modem for all you not old enough to know) since 1990. Only had one friend whose family owned an IBM compatible, and they were got online in 1997 with Juno, which limited them to 10 hours a month of free internet, that their dad used the majority of that allocated time responding to business related e-mails from home. Another friend got an IBM compatible in his home a couple of months after we got ours and from that point on the internet was this mysterious place we couldn't seem to visit enough.

And now we can surf the internet, send and receive e-mails, make and watch videos, engage in voice and text chats, share photos, listen to music, play games with other people online, download games, pictures, and music all from a tiny handheld game system that runs for hours on a rechargeable battery. Yes, I do mean the PS Vita. What a marvelous age this is to live in.

I'm in two active text chat groups through PSN. Regularly check this board from the Vita, frequently watch shows and movies using the Crackle App, Will infrequently binge watch YouTube videos on it while lying in bed, game on it almost daily, even check the local Craigslist ads using it sometimes. Have taken numerous photos using the Vita as well.

I know a lot of Nintendo fan boys who have never touched a Vita who rant and rave about how advanced the 3DS's web browser is over the original Nintendo DS web browser and glorify the YouTube and Hulu apps that the 3DS has. But being an owner of both systems, the difference is like comparing a tricycle to a Mercedes-Benz S-Class. The tricycle is cheap, slow, restrictive, and tiring, and may eventually get you to your destination. The Mercedes-Benz will not only get you to where you wanted to go, it will get you there much more quickly with better options all while letting you experience world renowned comfort. (Shameless unpaid plug for MB, but can you blame me?)

 
Children I say! I was on the Internet in 1990 and playing MUDs (look it up) with folks all over the world. Yeah! I win. Crap, I am OLD!
Bought my first PC back in 91, parents wouldn't allow me to talk to strangers. That and I didn't have a job to pay for a 2nd phone line in the house, barely had enough to buy that damn overpriced PC after a summer of work. Damn parents thought they could tie up the phone line all day.. :shame:

 
Children I say! I was on the Internet in 1990 and playing MUDs (look it up) with folks all over the world. Yeah! I win. Crap, I am OLD!
I used to play Zork II. (look it up) That was the AAA game back in the day... kids are so spoiled with Uncharted 4 now.

 
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I used to play Zork II. (look it up) That was the AAA game back in the day... kids are so spoiled with Uncharted 4 now.
Didn't Zork II have images? What about Zork proper? Kids these days don't know the joy of having to walk around a house via text and try for hours to find the trap door to the caves underneath (only to be killed by a troll because all you had was a torch). I swear that Zork took what seemed like weeks to pass simply because the text commands were so obscure... except "jump off cliff". The program had no problem with that one :whistle2:?

 
Children I say! I was on the Internet in 1990 and playing MUDs (look it up) with folks all over the world. Yeah! I win. Crap, I am OLD!
You and me both. Back when I was younger I was on a BBS constantly playing LORD and Exitilus.....Until we found out the operator of the BBS was local and was also a child predator. Dad got free internet (dial-up) through work and it was unlimited so we went crazy.

Ah, the days of dial-up and trying to download SNES ROMS when they were first released... I remember waiting hours for a 3 MB SNES ROM to download. It was the only way to play games like Final Fantasy V and (later) Bahamut Lagoon and Treasure Hunter G.

Kids these days will never know the pain of those 14, 28, or 56k modems...

 
Didn't Zork II have images? What about Zork proper? Kids these days don't know the joy of having to walk around a house via text and try for hours to find the trap door to the caves underneath (only to be killed by a troll because all you had was a torch). I swear that Zork took what seemed like weeks to pass simply because the text commands were so obscure... except "jump off cliff". The program had no problem with that one :whistle2:?
I've *written* a text adventure game (Hunt the Wumpus) as part of a programming class. It's even less fun debugging a text adventure than playing one.

 
So anyone have Digimon on the Vita and prefer it to playing on the big screen?

Debating if it's worth the extra cash for the portability.
If you get the physical or digital vita version and have a vita tv you get the best of both worlds. I got the physical version imported it from canada. Its fun but simple outside the leveling system. For leveling digimon there are many times where you need to evolve then de evolve so you can evolve them into the one you want or use them in battle to increase the cam stat.

Day 1 copy?

Isn't it digital only?
digital only for the vita na wise physical in asia/jpn. It was physical release everywhere on the ps4 though. Honestly don't get why they didn't release it on ps3 and 3ds as well.

 
Wow... I waited on that Trails of Cold Steel to have any sort of discount and nearly caved and bought it at full price a week or so ago. :wall:
how much of a discount are you waiting for? As it was 35$ prior to release for the standard edition and the lion heart edition has been 30 or less on awd numerous times now.

 
how much of a discount are you waiting for? As it was 35$ prior to release for the standard edition and the lion heart edition has been 30 or less on awd numerous times now.
To be fair, only the PS3 LE has been that price on AWD numerous times, and in more abundance, but the superior Vita version has been consistently higher in price, and not in abundance on AWD. ;D

I do agree though, at that $45 price with GCU, it's a good deal.

 
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Arrgh!

$71,715 What the heck. That was some very lousy budgeting MiKandi Japan did.

So we got the anticipated campaign update today from MiKandi Japan regarding Libra of the Vampire Princess, and it was far from positive.

So because of a poor grasp of budgeting for both the the KickStarter/BakerKit fees and the actual production costs for the physical reward items, the campaign has taken a massive slip backward and instead of being a mere $12,000 away for the PS Vita stretch goal we're a whopping, unobtainable, $71,715 behind!!!

They have effectively announced that this massive budgeting blunder, combined with discovering that Sony will not allow the adult-only content has effectively killed any chance at the game getting a Vita port, ever.

I will throw out here in their defense that I do not believe this was an intentional deception on there part. They are admitting to to all of this while the BackKit campaign is still open for another two weeks, so they are at least providing people who had backed, such as myself, sincerely believing there would be a PS Vita version a chance to back out. What a disappointment.

 
Definitely disappointing. I had been following the news on this game and I was ready to take the plunge when they were ~12k away. $71k in 2 weeks isn't happening. Oh well.
 
I think I've already said all that I needed to say.

Seeing how poorly the actual financial miscalculations are is still incredibly shocking that a team such as this did not consult anybody to help them with their finances.

Intentional or not, it was amateur hour for them, and there really is no defense for the second rate effort and thought process they put in to trying to make this happen.  Not just on the finance front, but on the Sony front.

In any case, I wasn't really optimistic from this to begin with, and now my feelings for this project and this team are confirmed.

You did what you could Tweeg, but unfortunately, there was no saving this project from succeeding on the Vita front.

 
Ya'll talking about the internet in the 90's like it's something old.  I remember my first game cosole back in the 70's... it was a generic multi game version of pong.  Then the Sears version of the Atari Video Game Console (VCS aka 2600) came out and we, like most families we knew, got into that.  It seemed a cheaper alternative to spending so many quarters in the arcades.  Nicely back then a lot of parents seemed to play videogames... especially at arcades/bowlingalleys/bars/etc.

Our first PC was an ibm clone with an 8088 processor (think before the 286 which came before the 386 and 486, all of which came out before the first Pentium).  We had monochrome graphics and to play games there was an emulator you had to run to trick the system into thinking it had a CGA videocard installed.   Our next pc was after I was in college.  It was built by dell and had what was the newest Pentium processor the 75 with MMX and ran Windows 3.1.1 (Windows for workgroups).  That was 1994.  We got AOL around the same time but I could finally get into PC gaming then and I did.  I ended up subscribing to PC Gamer for many years because of the demo discs (so much faster than downloading with a 14.4 modem) and had a blast with that computer playing most of the big games of the day.

...

Back to Vita.

That sucks for the Vita backers that got in during the Kickstarter.  At least the backerkit folks know now that the overall goal is pretty much impossible from a money stand point and that the content would have to be edited to even get it published on vita.

Not that I was that interested.  I got MuvLuv to handle my future VN needs... and I don't feel like I need to back every project with a potential vita game in the mix since i'm not collecting the stuff for any purpose other than playing it.

 
I'm pretty sure they just added that bit to try and pass the buck off to Sony.

It's a relatively minor issue considering they already have a non-rated version even for PC users, and it would be something that could be unlocked through a patch, and not even something that is inherently put into the game.

And because they stagnated, and dragged this on with the Vita possibility waiting in the wing, it eventually led to its downfall.  So they're telling me it never occurred to them to just release the non adult only version for Vita users (which most of us would have more than happy to go with), and keep the PC release the same?  I think it's a joke they're hiding behind their "survey" as well, seeing how that survey was taken before the noise for a Vita release was even considered as a necessity, and they're basing their decision off this survey?  Give me a break. 

They may be trying to shift the blame to somewhere else, but I have to say they are doing a shitty job of it with all of the inconsistencies that are attached to their claims.  Pretty much in the end, they just did not want to do a Vita release at all, and the move was really just all PR, and not actually anything that would get their full, or even half, attention in making it happen.

However, this was expected from the start, so not really all that disappointed (there was a reason why I never committed to the backer), but was just hoping that maybe this time there would be another successful Vita project other than just Muv-Luv, but I guess I was just giving myself false hope another project of that caliber could exist.

 
Thoughts on Lost Dimension? I see it on amazon for $24.63 so the price doesn't look so bad I think. Need a new game after Digimon and Dungeon Travelers &gt;.&lt;
Mediocre. Only good if you're desperate for a jrpg. Characters and story are terrible. Combat is okay.

Limited Run Games being bros.

Y7Dv6n9.png
If that actually happened, I'd have to buy the games a 3rd time.

Just did the E&amp;L survey. Boy that was a long survey. But I think I gave them a piece of my mind.

 
I haven't even begun playing Atelier Escha & Logy Plus: ~Alchemists of the Dusk Sky~. All I've done so far is pop the game into my Vita so I could grab the free DLC costumes before the promo period to actually get said content for free expired. I also have still not played enough of Ar nosurge Plus: Ode to an Unborn Star yet to warrant participating in the survey they ran for it. Sometimes it is literall years before I will get around to playing a game I've bought, just to much stuff to deal with in real life.

And yes, I'm totally disgusted with Onomatope's (aka MiKandi Japan) obvious excuses as to why they are effectively giving up on a Vita port. So many excuses in that update it's utterly pathetic, and they had to have realized their budget miscalculations well before KickStarter for the game ended, this wasn't something they just happened to notice. And everyone knows that Sony doesn't allow for adult-only content in PlayStation games, why the heck did they think all of the other VNs ported to PSP, PS2, PS3, Vita, and PS4 to date have been down edited to fit within the qualifiers for "T" and "M" ratings? Budgeting mistakes are one things, but this was a BS excuse that makes it sound like they never actually even tried to submit the game to Sony for approval to begin with, even though indication was given over a month ago that they had.

To make matters worse, this is going to be the most expensive PC game I have ever purchased, and the second most expensive game I have ever purchased in general, and I don't even care about PC gaming. I built my beastly Core i7 system to play PSO2, and since Sega pulled their atypical massive disappointment on all the English speaking world (except Singapore, go figure) on PSO2, I ended up re-purposing this tank to digitize my VHS tapes... pretty sure I could have done that just as effectively with a PC less than half the cost of building this one. Literally, the last game I played on the PC was Katawa Shoujo, which was freeware... and that was a long long time ago. Point is, I never would have pledged in the first place if the Vita version wasn't actually a possibility. And from their update posting today, it sounds to me like it was never a real possibility.

 
It really was just a walking disaster from the start, but even I had not predicted that it would be THIS poorly planned and managed when it got to the end, and it really did do quite a disservice to all of those who backed it, from both a monetary stand point, and from a support stand point.  Needless to say, I probably won't be looking forward to any of their future projects, if there are any more that is after this whole debacle.

 
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