Shopping Morality Thread
- Thread starter CheapyD
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'Morality' isn't cut and dry. I consider flipping immoral. You may not. Neither of us are right or wrong.
In my opinion, deals are immoral when they're unintended by the seller. Plain and simple. I consider it "wrong" (I use the term loosely) because this lost profit is made up elsewhere. If nobody abused these unintended deals that cause the seller to lose profit, that seller could offer lower margins across the board. When you gain from "the man", the man gains it from other customers.
In my opinion, deals are immoral when they're unintended by the seller. Plain and simple. I consider it "wrong" (I use the term loosely) because this lost profit is made up elsewhere. If nobody abused these unintended deals that cause the seller to lose profit, that seller could offer lower margins across the board. When you gain from "the man", the man gains it from other customers.
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[quote name='Koggit']'Morality' isn't cut and dry. I consider flipping immoral. You may not. Neither of us are right or wrong.
In my opinion, deals are immoral when they're unintended by the seller. Plain and simple. I consider it "wrong" (I use the term loosely) because this lost profit is made up elsewhere. If nobody abused these unintended deals that cause the seller to lose profit, that seller could offer lower margins across the board. When you gain from "the man", the man gains it from other customers.[/quote]
I doubt if EBGames turns a bigger profit that the first thing that comes to the CEO's mind is "Let's give back to the customer!".
In my opinion, deals are immoral when they're unintended by the seller. Plain and simple. I consider it "wrong" (I use the term loosely) because this lost profit is made up elsewhere. If nobody abused these unintended deals that cause the seller to lose profit, that seller could offer lower margins across the board. When you gain from "the man", the man gains it from other customers.[/quote]
I doubt if EBGames turns a bigger profit that the first thing that comes to the CEO's mind is "Let's give back to the customer!".
I believe who find the concept of flipping "immoral" are silly since the concept is a basis for many corporations.
Gamestop for example, buys new games at a price and then sells them to you at a higher price. It's the same thing I do when I buy lots at the swap meet and sell the extras to make back the money I spent. It's the same thing that I did today when I traded in those games for Super Paper Mario.
I know the term they use is reseller, but is it not the same?
The only difference is in this case instead a company buying from another company to sell to an individual, it's an individual buying from a company to sell to another company.
Gamestop for example, buys new games at a price and then sells them to you at a higher price. It's the same thing I do when I buy lots at the swap meet and sell the extras to make back the money I spent. It's the same thing that I did today when I traded in those games for Super Paper Mario.
I know the term they use is reseller, but is it not the same?
The only difference is in this case instead a company buying from another company to sell to an individual, it's an individual buying from a company to sell to another company.
[quote name='Pookymeister']I doubt if EBGames turns a bigger profit that the first thing that comes to the CEO's mind is "Let's give back to the customer!".[/QUOTE]
Dude.. take a business class or two. When a publicly traded corporation makes more profit, 95% of it goes back into the company one way or another, meaning either a better product/service or more product/service. Shareholders don't tolerate gluttonous executives.
You can think you're stealing from the man all you want. It hurts the consumer in the end.
Dude.. take a business class or two. When a publicly traded corporation makes more profit, 95% of it goes back into the company one way or another, meaning either a better product/service or more product/service. Shareholders don't tolerate gluttonous executives.
You can think you're stealing from the man all you want. It hurts the consumer in the end.
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[quote name='Koggit']
You can think you're stealing from the man all you want. It hurts the consumer in the end.[/quote]
Ha, so buying 2 games and trading them in is stealing now. Nice.
You can think you're stealing from the man all you want. It hurts the consumer in the end.[/quote]
Ha, so buying 2 games and trading them in is stealing now. Nice.
There is nothing wrong with flipping, but if you do the "wal-mart" trick for cash or store credit then that is wrong and is actually considered fraud, not to mention stores are cracking down on people who make fraudulent returns, its not worth the trouble imo since you could get in big trouble for doing it.
There is nothing wrong with flipping as long as you didn't actually steal the games, if you bought them at one store and ripped the shrinkwrap off in order to trade them into gamestop there is nothing wrong with that and I am betting gamestop makes quite a bit of money off all those used games that are turned in as a result of flipping since most people do not know how to flip and most people buying video games don't know any better about prices. There are so few people that flip games like this compared with the total of gamestop shoppers that its not hurting gamestop at all to take games that were flipped, in fact they are probably making money off it since they can sell those used games for a hefty profit.
There is nothing wrong with flipping as long as you didn't actually steal the games, if you bought them at one store and ripped the shrinkwrap off in order to trade them into gamestop there is nothing wrong with that and I am betting gamestop makes quite a bit of money off all those used games that are turned in as a result of flipping since most people do not know how to flip and most people buying video games don't know any better about prices. There are so few people that flip games like this compared with the total of gamestop shoppers that its not hurting gamestop at all to take games that were flipped, in fact they are probably making money off it since they can sell those used games for a hefty profit.
I'm not sure why anyone has a problem with operating normally within the free market. As long as the buyer and seller both agree on price without any coercion involved, then there's absolutely nothing wrong (illegal or immoral) about the deal.
When Gamestop establishes their deals (both for selling and buying back games), they do so with the intent of maximizing profit (and nothing more). If it just so happens that the deal that they establish turns out not to be as profitable as they had expected, that is their own fault and not the consumer's. It is not the obligation of the consumer to ensure that the seller profits on each and every transaction.
If I decide to sell my car for $5000 and realize after the sale that I actually owed $6000 on my car loan and thus lost $1000, was the buyer immoral for not ensuring that I profited from the deal? Of course not, it would be my own fault for making the mistake. And once the deal has been made, does it matter what the buyer does with the car? Heck no, they own it, they can do what they want with it, even it means turning right back around and selling it for $8000.
When Gamestop establishes their deals (both for selling and buying back games), they do so with the intent of maximizing profit (and nothing more). If it just so happens that the deal that they establish turns out not to be as profitable as they had expected, that is their own fault and not the consumer's. It is not the obligation of the consumer to ensure that the seller profits on each and every transaction.
If I decide to sell my car for $5000 and realize after the sale that I actually owed $6000 on my car loan and thus lost $1000, was the buyer immoral for not ensuring that I profited from the deal? Of course not, it would be my own fault for making the mistake. And once the deal has been made, does it matter what the buyer does with the car? Heck no, they own it, they can do what they want with it, even it means turning right back around and selling it for $8000.
IAmTheCheapestGamer
Banned
[quote name='SaraAB']There is nothing wrong with flipping, but if you do the "wal-mart" trick for cash or store credit then that is wrong and is actually considered fraud, not to mention stores are cracking down on people who make fraudulent returns, its not worth the trouble imo since you could get in big trouble for doing it.
There is nothing wrong with flipping as long as you didn't actually steal the games, if you bought them at one store and ripped the shrinkwrap off in order to trade them into gamestop there is nothing wrong with that and I am betting gamestop makes quite a bit of money off all those used games that are turned in as a result of flipping since most people do not know how to flip and most people buying video games don't know any better about prices. There are so few people that flip games like this compared with the total of gamestop shoppers that its not hurting gamestop at all to take games that were flipped, in fact they are probably making money off it since they can sell those used games for a hefty profit.[/quote]
Except in the case of the Clancy Triple Packs I was buying for $4 from Kmart and selling to GS stores during their 'trade 3, get $10 extra' deal, since I believe their selling price was lower than what I was getting thanks to the bonus.
There is nothing wrong with flipping as long as you didn't actually steal the games, if you bought them at one store and ripped the shrinkwrap off in order to trade them into gamestop there is nothing wrong with that and I am betting gamestop makes quite a bit of money off all those used games that are turned in as a result of flipping since most people do not know how to flip and most people buying video games don't know any better about prices. There are so few people that flip games like this compared with the total of gamestop shoppers that its not hurting gamestop at all to take games that were flipped, in fact they are probably making money off it since they can sell those used games for a hefty profit.[/quote]
Except in the case of the Clancy Triple Packs I was buying for $4 from Kmart and selling to GS stores during their 'trade 3, get $10 extra' deal, since I believe their selling price was lower than what I was getting thanks to the bonus.
If Gamestop can charge you $50 for a game, only give you $25 at most for it if you want to trade it in, and then sell it to someone else for $45, why can't the customers do the same to them?
I usually try and do flipping for cash only. Store credit just leads to more buying when all I want to do is recoup money I've lost. Flipping also deals in a lot of uncertains when it comes to places like FYE and Gamestop. I prefer Amazon.com if I have to flip.
As it is, most of my video game shopping is probably done immorally. It's such a ripoff-tastic industry that I can't help but to try and fight back for my own sake. I'd rather trade to a fellow gamer for a deficit on my part than make a small gain at the expense of a chain. That chain will make money off of exploiting me and everyone else.
I usually try and do flipping for cash only. Store credit just leads to more buying when all I want to do is recoup money I've lost. Flipping also deals in a lot of uncertains when it comes to places like FYE and Gamestop. I prefer Amazon.com if I have to flip.
As it is, most of my video game shopping is probably done immorally. It's such a ripoff-tastic industry that I can't help but to try and fight back for my own sake. I'd rather trade to a fellow gamer for a deficit on my part than make a small gain at the expense of a chain. That chain will make money off of exploiting me and everyone else.
I can make online ads for anyone that would like to save some money at walmart with price matching, i can make an ad for any item for any price you would like AKA amazon.com i charge a small fee per ad, but you save well over what i charge for the service, just name an item and name the price you want to pay for it, don't make it too low or they won't go for it, all you do is print it off your computer and take it in to walmart and they have to match the price, if this sounds good to you then email me the details and i'll tell you how much ill need to charge, my email is chaos_angel420 @ yahoo.com, this is a very very useful service.. believe me i've used it ALOT, i usually take 10 or 20 bucks of the price of an item depending on what the item is. you can save all sorts of money~! i can make multiples and charge you less per item, just email me, and i'll email you back as soon as i can! games included xbox wii ps2 ps3 psp computer games, anything!
justinstaff756
CAG Veteran
davo, i must know what you do for a living, your not smart enough to own a business, yet, your against "the chain." you need to know the gaming world has become great for sellers as it has increased prices and profits for me as an ebay seller for the past 9 years. the chain is where it is, i make tons of money off gamestop, over half of my inventory comes from them, if they were to go under now, i probably would too. gamestop is where it is, unless your a dumb one who trades in or sells to them, i guess thats what allows me to make the money though!! got to go, later
I think he was trying to say that he runs a ebay store and gets his inventory from Gamestop.
Heres a bit of a moral dilema. I pre-ordered the Harry potter book @ FYE.com (got plenty of store credit). The book never showed as shipped, so come saturday I went to an actual store and bought a copy. When I got home there was a package from FYE.com sitting in my mailbox with the book. So i go onto the website and it still shows as not shipped. Since there is no 'return unshipped item' option, i clicked on cancel order. Come monday I get an email saying that 'since my item has not shipped', my gift card has been completely refunded (even though they shipped me the book).
So now i have my $27 credit and an extra copy of the book. Would you send the book back, or keep it to ebay/give to a friend. I figure most people will say 'Keep it, screw FYE, they overcharge for everything', but i just wanted to see what people would do in the situation.
Heres a bit of a moral dilema. I pre-ordered the Harry potter book @ FYE.com (got plenty of store credit). The book never showed as shipped, so come saturday I went to an actual store and bought a copy. When I got home there was a package from FYE.com sitting in my mailbox with the book. So i go onto the website and it still shows as not shipped. Since there is no 'return unshipped item' option, i clicked on cancel order. Come monday I get an email saying that 'since my item has not shipped', my gift card has been completely refunded (even though they shipped me the book).
So now i have my $27 credit and an extra copy of the book. Would you send the book back, or keep it to ebay/give to a friend. I figure most people will say 'Keep it, screw FYE, they overcharge for everything', but i just wanted to see what people would do in the situation.
Yusuke-Urameshi-
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[quote name='Bezerker']I think he was trying to say that he runs a ebay store and gets his inventory from Gamestop.
Heres a bit of a moral dilema. I pre-ordered the Harry potter book @ FYE.com (got plenty of store credit). The book never showed as shipped, so come saturday I went to an actual store and bought a copy. When I got home there was a package from FYE.com sitting in my mailbox with the book. So i go onto the website and it still shows as not shipped. Since there is no 'return unshipped item' option, i clicked on cancel order. Come monday I get an email saying that 'since my item has not shipped', my gift card has been completely refunded (even though they shipped me the book).
So now i have my $27 credit and an extra copy of the book. Would you send the book back, or keep it to ebay/give to a friend. I figure most people will say 'Keep it, screw FYE, they overcharge for everything', but i just wanted to see what people would do in the situation.[/quote]
Why not your library?
Heres a bit of a moral dilema. I pre-ordered the Harry potter book @ FYE.com (got plenty of store credit). The book never showed as shipped, so come saturday I went to an actual store and bought a copy. When I got home there was a package from FYE.com sitting in my mailbox with the book. So i go onto the website and it still shows as not shipped. Since there is no 'return unshipped item' option, i clicked on cancel order. Come monday I get an email saying that 'since my item has not shipped', my gift card has been completely refunded (even though they shipped me the book).
So now i have my $27 credit and an extra copy of the book. Would you send the book back, or keep it to ebay/give to a friend. I figure most people will say 'Keep it, screw FYE, they overcharge for everything', but i just wanted to see what people would do in the situation.[/quote]
Why not your library?
As I mentioned in a thread in Deals, I sent a PM to Cheapy about the Google Checkout issue. He asked me to post here to get everyone's thoughts before he makes a decision on it. Here's where we stand.
As a little background, although I'm sure most people are aware, Buy.com offers $10 off with a new Google Checkout account. This deal is offered to new users of GCO only, it's not for existing members.
Now for what's currently happening. The first part is that members are constantly posting GCO "deals" of $10 off some random item. That's fine, if a bit annoying and should probably be confined to its own thread. After all, most people are no longer eligible for the GCO deal. But that's minor compared to part two.
The second part is the "just create a new account" part of posting GCO deals. Constantly creating new accounts is fraud, you know you're not eligible for the deal but you get around it anyhow. We know that Google, at least, cares about this to some degree since members have reported receiving emails telling them if they continued doing it Google would close all of their accounts.
Even if we want to continue allowing GCO deals, we cannot continue to allow people to encourage fraud as a form of "deal". We don't allow people to post about contest cheating (like the Club Live thread) and we don't tolerate people who post about their Wal-Mart return fraud. Why should we tolerate posts advocating defrauding a company offering a deal? Don't forget, these deals often escape from here and this could become a reflection of CAG.
In my PM to Cheapy I asked him to take a position one way or another on this, since it causes contention every time it comes up. He needs more information to make his decision, so now it's your turn. Should CAG ban GCO fraud posts, or is this something I shouldn't care about?
As a little background, although I'm sure most people are aware, Buy.com offers $10 off with a new Google Checkout account. This deal is offered to new users of GCO only, it's not for existing members.
Now for what's currently happening. The first part is that members are constantly posting GCO "deals" of $10 off some random item. That's fine, if a bit annoying and should probably be confined to its own thread. After all, most people are no longer eligible for the GCO deal. But that's minor compared to part two.
The second part is the "just create a new account" part of posting GCO deals. Constantly creating new accounts is fraud, you know you're not eligible for the deal but you get around it anyhow. We know that Google, at least, cares about this to some degree since members have reported receiving emails telling them if they continued doing it Google would close all of their accounts.
Even if we want to continue allowing GCO deals, we cannot continue to allow people to encourage fraud as a form of "deal". We don't allow people to post about contest cheating (like the Club Live thread) and we don't tolerate people who post about their Wal-Mart return fraud. Why should we tolerate posts advocating defrauding a company offering a deal? Don't forget, these deals often escape from here and this could become a reflection of CAG.
In my PM to Cheapy I asked him to take a position one way or another on this, since it causes contention every time it comes up. He needs more information to make his decision, so now it's your turn. Should CAG ban GCO fraud posts, or is this something I shouldn't care about?
judyjudyjudy
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[quote name='Damian']In my PM to Cheapy I asked him to take a position one way or another on this, since it causes contention every time it comes up. He needs more information to make his decision, so now it's your turn. Should CAG ban GCO fraud posts, or is this something I shouldn't care about?[/QUOTE]I don't totally understand the legalities of it, but I personally think making multiple GCO accounts isn't something that should be encouraged around here. It's certainly not a valid reason for a GCO thread to be considered a deal. Is it still as big of an issue tho? I thought Google was cracking down on this (as they should have been from the beginning).
[quote name='Damian']As I mentioned in a thread in Deals, I sent a PM to Cheapy about the Google Checkout issue. He asked me to post here to get everyone's thoughts before he makes a decision on it. Here's where we stand.
As a little background, although I'm sure most people are aware, Buy.com offers $10 off with a new Google Checkout account. This deal is offered to new users of GCO only, it's not for existing members.
Now for what's currently happening. The first part is that members are constantly posting GCO "deals" of $10 off some random item. That's fine, if a bit annoying and should probably be confined to its own thread. After all, most people are no longer eligible for the GCO deal. But that's minor compared to part two.
The second part is the "just create a new account" part of posting GCO deals. Constantly creating new accounts is fraud, you know you're not eligible for the deal but you get around it anyhow. We know that Google, at least, cares about this to some degree since members have reported receiving emails telling them if they continued doing it Google would close all of their accounts.
Even if we want to continue allowing GCO deals, we cannot continue to allow people to encourage fraud as a form of "deal". We don't allow people to post about contest cheating (like the Club Live thread) and we don't tolerate people who post about their Wal-Mart return fraud. Why should we tolerate posts advocating defrauding a company offering a deal? Don't forget, these deals often escape from here and this could become a reflection of CAG.
In my PM to Cheapy I asked him to take a position one way or another on this, since it causes contention every time it comes up. He needs more information to make his decision, so now it's your turn. Should CAG ban GCO fraud posts, or is this something I shouldn't care about?[/QUOTE]
I'm all for getting rid of the GCO threads and I am all for all fraudulent speak to be banned. I am talking about the GCO threads, Family Video $5 new customer coupon and how to fraud contests.
Flipping is a moral issue but fraud is a legal issue.
My reasons to get rid of the these sort of threads are; That fraud is illegal and it feeds the reputation that CAG is not a place to find deals but a place to scam for deals. On top of that having these type of threads are just asking for more trouble with subpoenas (and who wants that).
But forget all the other reasons. I would like them gone because it clogs up the forums with deals only con-artists* can take advantage of.
*
As a little background, although I'm sure most people are aware, Buy.com offers $10 off with a new Google Checkout account. This deal is offered to new users of GCO only, it's not for existing members.
Now for what's currently happening. The first part is that members are constantly posting GCO "deals" of $10 off some random item. That's fine, if a bit annoying and should probably be confined to its own thread. After all, most people are no longer eligible for the GCO deal. But that's minor compared to part two.
The second part is the "just create a new account" part of posting GCO deals. Constantly creating new accounts is fraud, you know you're not eligible for the deal but you get around it anyhow. We know that Google, at least, cares about this to some degree since members have reported receiving emails telling them if they continued doing it Google would close all of their accounts.
Even if we want to continue allowing GCO deals, we cannot continue to allow people to encourage fraud as a form of "deal". We don't allow people to post about contest cheating (like the Club Live thread) and we don't tolerate people who post about their Wal-Mart return fraud. Why should we tolerate posts advocating defrauding a company offering a deal? Don't forget, these deals often escape from here and this could become a reflection of CAG.
In my PM to Cheapy I asked him to take a position one way or another on this, since it causes contention every time it comes up. He needs more information to make his decision, so now it's your turn. Should CAG ban GCO fraud posts, or is this something I shouldn't care about?[/QUOTE]
I'm all for getting rid of the GCO threads and I am all for all fraudulent speak to be banned. I am talking about the GCO threads, Family Video $5 new customer coupon and how to fraud contests.
Flipping is a moral issue but fraud is a legal issue.
My reasons to get rid of the these sort of threads are; That fraud is illegal and it feeds the reputation that CAG is not a place to find deals but a place to scam for deals. On top of that having these type of threads are just asking for more trouble with subpoenas (and who wants that).
But forget all the other reasons. I would like them gone because it clogs up the forums with deals only con-artists* can take advantage of.
*
[quote name='Damian']In my PM to Cheapy I asked him to take a position one way or another on this, since it causes contention every time it comes up. He needs more information to make his decision, so now it's your turn. Should CAG ban GCO fraud posts, or is this something I shouldn't care about?[/quote]
I would look at Google's written policies, and see if anything you mentioned directly violates them. If so, then it's pretty cut and dry.
Google "not liking it" probably isn't a sufficient enough argument for an official ban. We still seem to tolerate/endorse the posting of Sunday ads, despite Circuit City's objections.
I would look at Google's written policies, and see if anything you mentioned directly violates them. If so, then it's pretty cut and dry.
Google "not liking it" probably isn't a sufficient enough argument for an official ban. We still seem to tolerate/endorse the posting of Sunday ads, despite Circuit City's objections.
I don't particularly care about people who use the GCO discount multiple times, but I'm all for eliminating the constant GCO threads. It seems like it would make sense to confine them all to a single thread, maybe even a sticky. There are a lot of users here, with new ones signing up every day, so GCO will always be new to somebody. That doesn't mean we need a new thread every time somebody realizes that it makes another game cheaper than retail.
[quote name='evilmax17']I would look at Google's written policies, and see if anything you mentioned directly violates them. If so, then it's pretty cut and dry.[/QUOTE]
Oh I agree, it is pretty cut and dry, but no one seems to care.
http://www.buy.com/corp/promos/google_offer.asp
Oh I agree, it is pretty cut and dry, but no one seems to care.
http://www.buy.com/corp/promos/google_offer.asp
I agree about the "not liking" part, I included Google's reaction merely to address the people who say "well if they cared they would cancel them, since they don't it must be fine"
darthbudge
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I know the point I am about to mention is kinda stupid but it is also philosophical so I will mention it anyway.
By using these glitches in GCO aren't we only helping google by find loopholes, trying to use them and then being denied? I mean no one ever did anything to mention those $10 off deals google might not ever have known that was something that could be taken advantage of. Now they know and will probably fix it sometime in the near future.
Ultimately I think all of GCO threads should remain unless google shows distress over this more.
By using these glitches in GCO aren't we only helping google by find loopholes, trying to use them and then being denied? I mean no one ever did anything to mention those $10 off deals google might not ever have known that was something that could be taken advantage of. Now they know and will probably fix it sometime in the near future.
Ultimately I think all of GCO threads should remain unless google shows distress over this more.
unicron129
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Well there wouldn't be subpoenas filed for telling people how to commit fraudulant acts. There's no plaigarism like what speedy got in trouble for or "releasing information of the trade". If the company isn't smart enough to stop the loopholes on their contest well thats too bad. If you agree with that then use the loophole if you don't agree with it then don't do it and comment on it in this thread. I do think that if the only way a deal you are posting can be done is by commiting fraud then say so in the thread title. (ex: $10 MGSPO *must use GCO*)
darthbudge
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This off topic but I agree with that statement. There have been lots of CDs that I brought because I originally downloaded some of a bands work and then decided to buy there CDs.
Also I very much agree with what Unicron said.
[quote name='unicron129']Well there wouldn't be subpoenas filed for telling people how to commit fraudulant acts. There's no plaigarism like what speedy got in trouble for or "releasing information of the trade". If the company isn't smart enough to stop the loopholes on their contest well thats too bad. If you agree with that then use the loophole if you don't agree with it then don't do it and comment on it in this thread. I do think that if the only way a deal you are posting can be done is by commiting fraud then say so in the thread title. (ex: $10 MGSPO *must use GCO*)[/QUOTE]
You are comparing apples to oranges. CAG vs. CC is different grounds this and I never claimed they were the same. Subpoenas can come whenever a company wants info on any user for various reasons. In CC case it was for plagiarism but if Google wanted to subpoena on different cags for suspected fraud would be for fraud not plagiarism.
The person using the fraudulent code can get in trouble. Also the person that tells the other user how to fraud GCO could be charged with aiding and abetting fraud. I know it is such a gray area (aiding and abetting) but just because you are sitting behind your computer screen doesn't make it not a crime. Most likely nothing will happen but if google ever wanted to make an example all they would have to do is run a few matching programs and hire a lawyer to sue.
Uni you are confused about the difference between a loophole and fraudulent acts. A loophole would be finding in the "Terms of service" that said you could make multiple accounts. Fraud is when it says "One per person/household" but find a way to make multiple accounts. I'm no lawyer but if these companies wanted to prosecute they could and you couldn't use the "Your system let me" excuse.
The problem I see is that many users don't realize it's illegal activities to do these things. By having the threads up it gives the message that these activities are legal.
Uni, didn't your Mom ever tell you "Two wrongs don't make a right."?
You are comparing apples to oranges. CAG vs. CC is different grounds this and I never claimed they were the same. Subpoenas can come whenever a company wants info on any user for various reasons. In CC case it was for plagiarism but if Google wanted to subpoena on different cags for suspected fraud would be for fraud not plagiarism.
The person using the fraudulent code can get in trouble. Also the person that tells the other user how to fraud GCO could be charged with aiding and abetting fraud. I know it is such a gray area (aiding and abetting) but just because you are sitting behind your computer screen doesn't make it not a crime. Most likely nothing will happen but if google ever wanted to make an example all they would have to do is run a few matching programs and hire a lawyer to sue.
Uni you are confused about the difference between a loophole and fraudulent acts. A loophole would be finding in the "Terms of service" that said you could make multiple accounts. Fraud is when it says "One per person/household" but find a way to make multiple accounts. I'm no lawyer but if these companies wanted to prosecute they could and you couldn't use the "Your system let me" excuse.
The problem I see is that many users don't realize it's illegal activities to do these things. By having the threads up it gives the message that these activities are legal.
Uni, didn't your Mom ever tell you "Two wrongs don't make a right."?
oasisboy
Banned
I come to this site to site to find good deals on videogames. I do not come to this site to be preached about morality, fraud, etc, etc.
I am an adult and I do not need to be told what to do and not to do. If I want to ripoff google or wal-mart so be it. It's like telling a smoker to not smoke because it is bad for your health.
So lets keep the Google discount threads alive and lets not ban wal-mart return comments. Each one of us has a right to say what we think and what we do (even if is fraudulent).
You are not my mommy or daddy to tell me what is right and wrong.
I am an adult and I do not need to be told what to do and not to do. If I want to ripoff google or wal-mart so be it. It's like telling a smoker to not smoke because it is bad for your health.
So lets keep the Google discount threads alive and lets not ban wal-mart return comments. Each one of us has a right to say what we think and what we do (even if is fraudulent).
You are not my mommy or daddy to tell me what is right and wrong.
Wal-Mart return fraud posts has never been tolerated/allowed.
[quote name='oasisboy'] I am an adult and I do not need to be told what to do and not to do. If I want to ripoff google or wal-mart so be it. It's like telling a smoker to not smoke because it is bad for your health.
[/QUOTE]
Are you comparing smoking (a legal act) to fraud?
Ok I give up.
[quote name='oasisboy'] I am an adult and I do not need to be told what to do and not to do. If I want to ripoff google or wal-mart so be it. It's like telling a smoker to not smoke because it is bad for your health.
[/QUOTE]
Are you comparing smoking (a legal act) to fraud?
Ok I give up.
judyjudyjudy
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People can do anything they want. I really doubt that a lot of people on here have never downloaded an mp3, downloaded a ROM, do other legally-questionable things. What we can discuss on this website is a different matter.
[quote name='oasisboy']I come to this site to site to find good deals on videogames. I do not come to this site to be preached about morality, fraud, etc, etc.
I am an adult and I do not need to be told what to do and not to do. If I want to ripoff google or wal-mart so be it. It's like telling a smoker to not smoke because it is bad for your health.
So lets keep the Google discount threads alive and lets not ban wal-mart return comments. Each one of us has a right to say what we think and what we do (even if is fraudulent).
You are not my mommy or daddy to tell me what is right and wrong.[/quote]
You have the right to do whatever you want in your life. Return shit to Wal-mart, I don't care.
You don't have the right to post it here though, and I will delete any post of yours that mentions it.
I am an adult and I do not need to be told what to do and not to do. If I want to ripoff google or wal-mart so be it. It's like telling a smoker to not smoke because it is bad for your health.
So lets keep the Google discount threads alive and lets not ban wal-mart return comments. Each one of us has a right to say what we think and what we do (even if is fraudulent).
You are not my mommy or daddy to tell me what is right and wrong.[/quote]
You have the right to do whatever you want in your life. Return shit to Wal-mart, I don't care.
You don't have the right to post it here though, and I will delete any post of yours that mentions it.
unicron129
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[quote name='spoo']You are comparing apples to oranges. CAG vs. CC is different grounds this and I never claimed they were the same. Subpoenas can come whenever a company wants info on any user for various reasons. In CC case it was for plagiarism but if Google wanted to subpoena on different cags for suspected fraud would be for fraud not plagiarism.
The person using the fraudulent code can get in trouble. Also the person that tells the other user how to fraud GCO could be charged with aiding and abetting fraud. I know it is such a gray area (aiding and abetting) but just because you are sitting behind your computer screen doesn't make it not a crime. Most likely nothing will happen but if google ever wanted to make an example all they would have to do is run a few matching programs and hire a lawyer to sue.
Uni you are confused about the difference between a loophole and fraudulent acts. A loophole would be finding in the "Terms of service" that said you could make multiple accounts. Fraud is when it says "One per person/household" but find a way to make multiple accounts. I'm no lawyer but if these companies wanted to prosecute they could and you couldn't use the "Your system let me" excuse.
The problem I see is that many users don't realize it's illegal activities to do these things. By having the threads up it gives the message that these activities are legal.
Uni, didn't your Mom ever tell you "Two wrongs don't make a right."?[/quote]
I was mnostly reffering to things like the tropicana contest not GCO.
The person using the fraudulent code can get in trouble. Also the person that tells the other user how to fraud GCO could be charged with aiding and abetting fraud. I know it is such a gray area (aiding and abetting) but just because you are sitting behind your computer screen doesn't make it not a crime. Most likely nothing will happen but if google ever wanted to make an example all they would have to do is run a few matching programs and hire a lawyer to sue.
Uni you are confused about the difference between a loophole and fraudulent acts. A loophole would be finding in the "Terms of service" that said you could make multiple accounts. Fraud is when it says "One per person/household" but find a way to make multiple accounts. I'm no lawyer but if these companies wanted to prosecute they could and you couldn't use the "Your system let me" excuse.
The problem I see is that many users don't realize it's illegal activities to do these things. By having the threads up it gives the message that these activities are legal.
Uni, didn't your Mom ever tell you "Two wrongs don't make a right."?[/quote]
I was mnostly reffering to things like the tropicana contest not GCO.
Chitown021
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I will ask about getting prices marked in error but if the store says no I leave it at that. Most recent example was Sears. They had an unlabeled copy of R&C Size Matters in the "$19.99 or less" clearance bin. I asked to buy it and it rang up $39.99. The manager said it was misplaced. I told him it was in the $19.99 bin. He said he couldn't match it and put it back in the case.
My stance is that using multiple accounts to get GCO shouldn't be tolerated. But, threads that are ABOUT GCO and not ABUSING GCO should be left alone. Telling people who visit this site that if you never shopped before using google checkout you can get a really good deal on something is what this site is about. ABUSING GCO isn't... It's like the Club Live Search thread in Freebies Section, it says specifically NO BOT/MACRO talk which means here at CAG they don't condone that kinda behaviour but Club Live is there for legit people too, just like GCO $10 off is there for those who are new too...
I think somehow ending the continuous "Game X is $10 cheaper because you can use GCO, just like every other game that Buy.com sells" threads would be a start. Once that's done, if people feel the need to continue to make new GCO accounts, they can do it, but there won't be a constant discussion about it or encouragement/condoning of the behavior in every thread.
FamilyVideo is almost a similar situation, but at least they actually have deals on stuff up front, then the new member coupon makes it even better - and they have an existing member coupon that is usable more than once, if I'm not mistaken, making the whole deal much more acceptable.
FamilyVideo is almost a similar situation, but at least they actually have deals on stuff up front, then the new member coupon makes it even better - and they have an existing member coupon that is usable more than once, if I'm not mistaken, making the whole deal much more acceptable.
oasisboy
Banned
[quote name='spoo']
Are you comparing smoking (a legal act) to fraud? [/quote]
Smoking is not legal in public places (here in Texas) yet I still see people smoking in prohibited areas and what do I do? I walk away to another area, I do not bother them preaching them about how they are breaking the law or how it is unhealthy...
Are you comparing smoking (a legal act) to fraud? [/quote]
Smoking is not legal in public places (here in Texas) yet I still see people smoking in prohibited areas and what do I do? I walk away to another area, I do not bother them preaching them about how they are breaking the law or how it is unhealthy...
oasisboy
Banned
[quote name='Trakan']You have the right to do whatever you want in your life. Return shit to Wal-mart, I don't care.
You don't have the right to post it here though, and I will delete any post of yours that mentions it.[/quote]
What happened to freedom of speech???
I guess Cheapy wants to keep this forum PG instead of R.
You don't have the right to post it here though, and I will delete any post of yours that mentions it.[/quote]
What happened to freedom of speech???
I guess Cheapy wants to keep this forum PG instead of R.
oasisboy
Banned
[quote name='TomoyoN']My stance is that using multiple accounts to get GCO shouldn't be tolerated. [/quote]
If my memory is correct, I remember a moderator in this forum boasting how he used GCO multiple times... (I think this was on the original GCO thread like 6 months ago). I also remember I got into an argument with him about why was this allowed to be discussed in the forum considering that wal-mart return comments are not allowed, then he got all defensive stating that Google allowed it so it was ok...
Moderator, you know who you are...
If my memory is correct, I remember a moderator in this forum boasting how he used GCO multiple times... (I think this was on the original GCO thread like 6 months ago). I also remember I got into an argument with him about why was this allowed to be discussed in the forum considering that wal-mart return comments are not allowed, then he got all defensive stating that Google allowed it so it was ok...
Moderator, you know who you are...
petrieslastword
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[quote name='oasisboy']What happened to freedom of speech???
I guess Cheapy wants to keep this forum PG instead of R.[/quote]
Did you really just throw the freedom of speech argument out there?
Morons who think it applies to every facet of existence.
I guess Cheapy wants to keep this forum PG instead of R.[/quote]
Did you really just throw the freedom of speech argument out there?
Morons who think it applies to every facet of existence.
[quote name='oasisboy']Smoking is not legal in public places (here in Texas) yet I still see people smoking in prohibited areas and what do I do? I walk away to another area, I do not bother them preaching them about how they are breaking the law or how it is unhealthy...[/QUOTE]
Hey you still don't get it, fraud isn't legal anywhere.
[quote name='oasisboy']What happened to freedom of speech???
I guess Cheapy wants to keep this forum PG instead of R.[/QUOTE]
Since when dose freedom of speech apply to anyone/anything except the US government?
[quote name='oasisboy']If my memory is correct, I remember a moderator in this forum boasting how he used GCO multiple times... (I think this was on the original GCO thread like 6 months ago). I also remember I got into an argument with him about why was this allowed to be discussed in the forum considering that wal-mart return comments are not allowed, then he got all defensive stating that Google allowed it so it was ok...
Moderator, you know who you are...[/QUOTE]
And your point is? Mods are human and make mistakes just like you and I. This discussion is if it should still be allowed not who committed the act and why.
Like the point I said earlier if this website allows it be openly talked about then it is implied that is legal and nothing is wrong with it.
Hey you still don't get it, fraud isn't legal anywhere.
[quote name='oasisboy']What happened to freedom of speech???
I guess Cheapy wants to keep this forum PG instead of R.[/QUOTE]
Since when dose freedom of speech apply to anyone/anything except the US government?
[quote name='oasisboy']If my memory is correct, I remember a moderator in this forum boasting how he used GCO multiple times... (I think this was on the original GCO thread like 6 months ago). I also remember I got into an argument with him about why was this allowed to be discussed in the forum considering that wal-mart return comments are not allowed, then he got all defensive stating that Google allowed it so it was ok...
Moderator, you know who you are...[/QUOTE]
And your point is? Mods are human and make mistakes just like you and I. This discussion is if it should still be allowed not who committed the act and why.
Like the point I said earlier if this website allows it be openly talked about then it is implied that is legal and nothing is wrong with it.
benjamouth
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TBH I probably wouldn't try an argue for an incorrectly advertsised price, but I should.
If people just accept this then companies are going to think they can get away with "Bait and Switch" whenever they feel like it. Sometimes honest mistakes do happen, but honestly, how hard is it to proof read something that is going to be sent out to people nationally?
The more we allow them to get away with, the more they'll try and get away with.
As for the Walmart return thing, thats stealing, no two ways about it. I think posts about that should be banned.
I'm glad this thread was created, it's good to remove this discussion from the deals threads.
If people just accept this then companies are going to think they can get away with "Bait and Switch" whenever they feel like it. Sometimes honest mistakes do happen, but honestly, how hard is it to proof read something that is going to be sent out to people nationally?
The more we allow them to get away with, the more they'll try and get away with.
As for the Walmart return thing, thats stealing, no two ways about it. I think posts about that should be banned.
I'm glad this thread was created, it's good to remove this discussion from the deals threads.
oasisboy
Banned
[quote name='spoo']Hey you still don't get it, fraud isn't legal anywhere. [/quote]
My point is that you should leave people alone and not preach to them about fraud.
[quote name='spoo']
Since when dose freedom of speech apply to anyone/anything except the US government?[/quote]
Freedom of speech should be allowed everywhere. Especially in a messageboard.
[quote name='spoo']
And your point is? Mods are human and make mistakes just like you and I. [/quote]
My point is that some people in this board are hypocrites. "Lets ban those walmart comments but its ok to abuse google" , WTF? It is human to err but you cannot have double standards. I find it funny that this moderator kept arguing with me about how what he did to google was ok, yet this same moderator was so passionate about blocking the wal-mart comments...
My point is that you should leave people alone and not preach to them about fraud.
[quote name='spoo']
Since when dose freedom of speech apply to anyone/anything except the US government?[/quote]
Freedom of speech should be allowed everywhere. Especially in a messageboard.
[quote name='spoo']
And your point is? Mods are human and make mistakes just like you and I. [/quote]
My point is that some people in this board are hypocrites. "Lets ban those walmart comments but its ok to abuse google" , WTF? It is human to err but you cannot have double standards. I find it funny that this moderator kept arguing with me about how what he did to google was ok, yet this same moderator was so passionate about blocking the wal-mart comments...
petrieslastword
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='oasisboy']
Freedom of speech should be allowed everywhere. Especially in a messageboard.
[/quote]
You're an idiot.
The entire reason moderators exist is because a message board that wants to maintain any kind of relevance can not allow freedom of speech. So we should allow all the spam threads looking for clicks in the deal forums? In fact let's turn the trading forum into a place for personals ads, since you know, freedom of speech and all. In fact, if you'd like to take the PC gaming forum and turn it into a discussion of various ways to build a bomb, we should probably allow that too. You know, free speech and all, wouldn't want to take that away from you.
Moron.
Freedom of speech should be allowed everywhere. Especially in a messageboard.
[/quote]
You're an idiot.
The entire reason moderators exist is because a message board that wants to maintain any kind of relevance can not allow freedom of speech. So we should allow all the spam threads looking for clicks in the deal forums? In fact let's turn the trading forum into a place for personals ads, since you know, freedom of speech and all. In fact, if you'd like to take the PC gaming forum and turn it into a discussion of various ways to build a bomb, we should probably allow that too. You know, free speech and all, wouldn't want to take that away from you.
Moron.
[quote name='oasisboy']My point is that you should leave people alone and not preach to them about fraud.
Freedom of speech should be allowed everywhere. Especially in a messageboard.
My point is that some people in this board are hypocrites. "Lets ban those walmart comments but its ok to abuse google" , WTF? It is human to err but you cannot have double standards. I find it funny that this moderator kept arguing with me about how what he did to google was ok, yet this same moderator was so passionate about blocking the wal-mart comments...[/quote]
I did use Google Checkout a few different times, but I did not 'brag' about it. Once they told me that they canceled an order, I stopped using it.
I do not make the rules for this site. I help to enforce them. I personally know for a fact that Cheapy does not want discussion of Wal-Mart returns on CAG. He has not said anything about the Google Checkout deals. If and when he does, the discussion of them on CAG will stop.
Freedom of speech should be allowed everywhere. Especially in a messageboard.
My point is that some people in this board are hypocrites. "Lets ban those walmart comments but its ok to abuse google" , WTF? It is human to err but you cannot have double standards. I find it funny that this moderator kept arguing with me about how what he did to google was ok, yet this same moderator was so passionate about blocking the wal-mart comments...[/quote]
I did use Google Checkout a few different times, but I did not 'brag' about it. Once they told me that they canceled an order, I stopped using it.
I do not make the rules for this site. I help to enforce them. I personally know for a fact that Cheapy does not want discussion of Wal-Mart returns on CAG. He has not said anything about the Google Checkout deals. If and when he does, the discussion of them on CAG will stop.
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3310728#post3310728
[quote name='Damian']Could you change the title to "Deals for people who like to defraud Google and/or are too stupid to sort by price on the EBGames.com site"? Thanks.
[/quote]
[quote name='oasisboy']All the people whinning about this thread are the same ones that love the Wii in stock threads. Can't you all read Speedy's threads??[/quote]
But now in this thread, it's "Don't tell me I'm not supposed to defraud Google! You're not my mommy! Freedom of speech!"
So which is it? Should we deride those who talk out against fraud (as you have), or should we join their ranks (as you now have done)? If you want to argue a point, fine, but figure out what the
you're trying to argue so you at least make sense.
[quote name='Damian']Could you change the title to "Deals for people who like to defraud Google and/or are too stupid to sort by price on the EBGames.com site"? Thanks.
[/quote]
[quote name='oasisboy']All the people whinning about this thread are the same ones that love the Wii in stock threads. Can't you all read Speedy's threads??[/quote]
But now in this thread, it's "Don't tell me I'm not supposed to defraud Google! You're not my mommy! Freedom of speech!"
So which is it? Should we deride those who talk out against fraud (as you have), or should we join their ranks (as you now have done)? If you want to argue a point, fine, but figure out what the
you're trying to argue so you at least make sense.
bread's done