The General 360 Owners/Buyers FAQ Thread (Updated 1/15/10)

[quote name='Wolfpup']I guess it is possible to install games to a USB drive?

It would be slower than the hard drive, as USB 2.0 is slower than SATA, and flash memory sticks are slower than hard drives. I guess it should be faster than the optical drive...probably...although USB requires the CPU to do a lot more work, so there's at least some chance it could impact game performance (although I'd guess so long as one of the three CPUs has a lot of cycles doing nothing, it could use that for USB access without issues).[/QUOTE]

Not sure why you think USB uses more CPU than any other data transfer method, not true at all. What will make a difference is the quality of the USB drive, you want a highspeed one. When you format the USB stick for use, the xbox will actually complain if the USB is a slower type. I ended up taking one brand back due to that message. The usb does work even when you see the error message, but I assume issues may arise later on.
 
[quote name='stoned99']Not sure why you think USB uses more CPU than any other data transfer method, not true at all.[/quote]

Eh? :whistle2:s Yeah it's true, USB 1 and 2 require heavy CPU use. It's substantial enough that it can mess up other things if you're transferring large files over USB while doing something that takes a lot of CPU power. Just look at your CPU utilization while copying a large file over USB. Back when Firewire was potentially a serious competitor, one of it's benefits was it should have much lower CPU utilization.

Theoretically USB 3 should be a lot better about that (on paper at least).

What will make a difference is the quality of the USB drive, you want a highspeed one. When you format the USB stick for use, the xbox will actually complain if the USB is a slower type. I ended up taking one brand back due to that message. The usb does work even when you see the error message, but I assume issues may arise later on.
Click to expand...

I'm using a Sony 16GB flash drive since I've had good luck with Sony's flash products over the years, and it counts as fast. It's still of course slower than the hard drive though + would have higher CPU utilization to access.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']I guess it is possible to install games to a USB drive?

It would be slower than the hard drive, as USB 2.0 is slower than SATA, and flash memory sticks are slower than hard drives. I guess it should be faster than the optical drive...probably...although USB requires the CPU to do a lot more work, so there's at least some chance it could impact game performance (although I'd guess so long as one of the three CPUs has a lot of cycles doing nothing, it could use that for USB access without issues).[/QUOTE]
Flash drives vary wildly in performance. Write times are generally longer, but some will outperform the 360's hdd in read tests.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/xbox-360-storage-update-the-flash-factor-article
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Eh? :whistle2:s Yeah it's true, USB 1 and 2 require heavy CPU use. It's substantial enough that it can mess up other things if you're transferring large files over USB while doing something that takes a lot of CPU power. Just look at your CPU utilization while copying a large file over USB. Back when Firewire was potentially a serious competitor, one of it's benefits was it should have much lower CPU utilization.

Theoretically USB 3 should be a lot better about that (on paper at least).



I'm using a Sony 16GB flash drive since I've had good luck with Sony's flash products over the years, and it counts as fast. It's still of course slower than the hard drive though + would have higher CPU utilization to access.[/QUOTE]

A quick google quickly turns up many articles indicating that USB keys do not impact the CPU adversely but rather use the southbridge bus. Hopefully your not confusing the fact that they use power e.g 5+ volts, vs CPU power.

Honestly all IO uses the CPU to some degree, if the data is not compressed, etc, the cpu is just being used to marshal communications and nothing extraordinary.

If you can point me to an article which actually says that USB storage negatively impacts the xbox cpu I would certainly accept your opinion, but I think your initial opinion of huge impact is just plain wrong.
 
[quote name='Allnatural']Flash drives vary wildly in performance. Write times are generally longer, but some will outperform the 360's hdd in read tests.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/xbox-360-storage-update-the-flash-factor-article[/QUOTE]

Yikes, there's something messed up that a normal hard drive is reading and writing that slowly LOL. Although they are older, and only 5400RPM, but still, normal read speed ought to be 4x that anyway.

[quote name='stoned99']A quick google quickly turns up many articles indicating that USB keys do not impact the CPU adversely but rather use the southbridge bus. [/quote]

Again, USB DOES use your CPU, and you can easily see it for yourself. Yes, the USB controller is usually on a separate chip, but the CPU is needed to actually do anything with it, and taxing the USB bus heavily creates a noticeable impact.



I'm not talking about electrical power, I'm talking about CPU utilization.



Yes, but it's much, much higher on USB than on SATA or other interfaces. It's always been one of the drawbacks to USB, and was a selling point (at least theoretically) for Firewire, and for USB 3.0.

If you can point me to an article which actually says that USB storage negatively impacts the xbox cpu I would certainly accept your opinion, but I think your initial opinion of huge impact is just plain wrong.
Click to expand...

It's not an opinion. USB uses the CPU for transfers, that's just how it's always worked (until 3.0), and that's been a well known draw back of USB since it launched some 12+ years ago. Again, you can easily see this for yourself on your own computer. On the Penryn Core 2 I'm using right now it can spike to over half of one core and sometimes kick the fan up, and of course the Xbox's cores were primitive even back in 2005, and it's got a worse USB controller.

Now that may not matter, or may matter more or less depending on the game, because presumably for it to matter all three cores would have to be getting pegged heavily, and it may well be the case that at least one of the cores is often left mostly unused, and of course the drive has to be actually getting actively hit too. So it may not matter practically speaking, but it has to be pegging the CPU harder than SATA, because that's how USB works.

This is something that's so well known that I don't feel I should need to be finding links to it. I searched a bit, and frankly at this point it may be a little tough to find detailed info on how USB works, as it's so well known and articles have long since slipped into archives, and you'll mostly find hundreds of people saying exactly what I'm saying, but not the actual technical info on it. This isn't really as good as I'd like to link to, but here's some really not too great links:

http://www.extremetech.com/image_popup/0,,iid=19662&aID=35756&sID=1038,00.asp

http://www.technibble.com/firewire-vs-usb/
"Architecture wise, the “Peer-to-Peer” of FireWire allows devices to be intelligent enough and negotiate bus conflicts to decide who should control the data transfer, while USB uses the “Master-Slave” architecture where the computer control the data flow between the attached peripherals, which adds a significant system overhead."

SCSI (and in turn Firefire), and SATA are explicitly designed to offload work from the CPU. USB (until 3.0) isn't.
 
My friend made a gamertag on my 360. However, when I start my 360 up, it always automatically signs in under his and not mine. Is there anyway to fix that?
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Yikes, there's something messed up that a normal hard drive is reading and writing that slowly LOL. Although they are older, and only 5400RPM, but still, normal read speed ought to be 4x that anyway.



Again, USB DOES use your CPU, and you can easily see it for yourself. Yes, the USB controller is usually on a separate chip, but the CPU is needed to actually do anything with it, and taxing the USB bus heavily creates a noticeable impact.



I'm not talking about electrical power, I'm talking about CPU utilization.



Yes, but it's much, much higher on USB than on SATA or other interfaces. It's always been one of the drawbacks to USB, and was a selling point (at least theoretically) for Firewire, and for USB 3.0.



It's not an opinion. USB uses the CPU for transfers, that's just how it's always worked (until 3.0), and that's been a well known draw back of USB since it launched some 12+ years ago. Again, you can easily see this for yourself on your own computer. On the Penryn Core 2 I'm using right now it can spike to over half of one core and sometimes kick the fan up, and of course the Xbox's cores were primitive even back in 2005, and it's got a worse USB controller.

Now that may not matter, or may matter more or less depending on the game, because presumably for it to matter all three cores would have to be getting pegged heavily, and it may well be the case that at least one of the cores is often left mostly unused, and of course the drive has to be actually getting actively hit too. So it may not matter practically speaking, but it has to be pegging the CPU harder than SATA, because that's how USB works.

This is something that's so well known that I don't feel I should need to be finding links to it. I searched a bit, and frankly at this point it may be a little tough to find detailed info on how USB works, as it's so well known and articles have long since slipped into archives, and you'll mostly find hundreds of people saying exactly what I'm saying, but not the actual technical info on it. This isn't really as good as I'd like to link to, but here's some really not too great links:

http://www.extremetech.com/image_popup/0,,iid=19662&aID=35756&sID=1038,00.asp

http://www.technibble.com/firewire-vs-usb/
"Architecture wise, the “Peer-to-Peer” of FireWire allows devices to be intelligent enough and negotiate bus conflicts to decide who should control the data transfer, while USB uses the “Master-Slave” architecture where the computer control the data flow between the attached peripherals, which adds a significant system overhead."

SCSI (and in turn Firefire), and SATA are explicitly designed to offload work from the CPU. USB (until 3.0) isn't.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, found this easily

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080128154357AAiIq0N

But i also found articles from users complaining about high cpu use with others pointing to invalid / corrupt device drivers etc. Maybe your experience on your particular computer is unique to you. The USB article which was clearly well written and thoroughly researched had no such complaints, and they we're running Halo from the USB.

I say your initial response was just hyperbole, with a little drama added. Which is why it got my attention. And Firewire is dead, USB 2.0 saw to that, unless of course you're a mac user. Clearly not the winning technology.

1 last conciliatory note, maybe you're experience was/is with USB 1.1 on an older OS which is far inferior to the ubiquitous 2.0 that the xbox uses.
 
[quote name='stoned99']Sorry, found this easily

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080128154357AAiIq0N[/quote]

Two things wrong there with that first answer-in the first place, the person is asking about a USB Hub, which will not alter CPU utilization in any way, so technically the correct answer is 'no'. In the second, USB in general will-that the controller is usually located off another chip does not affect that, so the answer is wrong.

Look at some of the later responses who say exactly what I'm saying. This is SUPER COMMON KNOWLEDGE.

But i also found articles from users complaining about high cpu use with others pointing to invalid / corrupt device drivers etc.
Click to expand...

Yes, but when things are working correctly USB wil still use higher CPU utilization than other current interfaces.

I say your initial response was just hyperbole, with a little drama added. Which is why it got my attention. And Firewire is dead, USB 2.0 saw to that, unless of course you're a mac user. Clearly not the winning technology.
Click to expand...

Yikes. Hyberbole? Okay this is just seriously bizarre. Just track down an article from a tech site from 10 years ago or whatever. Even something in depth on USB 3.0 may describe the difference. This is just something super basic about USB.

1 last conciliatory note, maybe you're experience was/is with USB 1.1 on an older OS which is far inferior to the ubiquitous 2.0 that the xbox uses.
Click to expand...

No, USB 2.0 works the exact same way. USB 3.0 drastically modernizes it, but it's going to be quite a while before it's really in serious use, and I'd assume it has to be using USB 3.0 only devices, though can't remember.

The CPU *HAS* to be engaged on USB 1/2 when in use. The ONLY way around that would be some sort of device with it's own CPU that handles USB and then spits it out in some other format for the main system...theoretically possible for hard drives, but it's obviously not done.
 
Just want to drop in and THANK Wolfpup and stoned99 for their insights into the USB questions I had.

I have made up my mind that disc based games wouldn't be such a great idea, however Arcade games (such as After Burner, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, TMNT) I am still up in the air about.

In any case thanks again brothers. If you have any further info I can use before I bite the bullet and spend on a stick, as always, it is greatly appreaciated.
 
Probably a simple answer to a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway... my elite just conked out on me today, and so I'm planning on getting a new Xbox. It would be easier (and cheaper) just to buy an arcade and stick my hard drive on it, transfer the licenses and be done, but I kind of want a new 'S' model... so if I got the transfer cable, would that put EVERYTHING onto the new HD? I mean Arcade games, Indie games, game saves, avatar awards, all that? I know it just does a copy, but I'm just not totally clear on how some of those things work. Well thanks for any help!
 
can any1 who has owned both the old xbox and the new slim compare the disc scratching(is it fixed?) and the noise of the xbox. Thanks!
 
I haven't heard the new one yet, but Anandtech measured it as roughly half the volume. I'm making up the exact numbers, but it was something like maybe 51db on the old one and 48 on the new.
 
Scratch issue is still a problem, sticker on the front of the S clearly warns about it, and I would say the S is usually dead quiet, unless the room is super hot (or like me you cover the vent by accident), and then it's quieter than the regular xbox when it's sitting idle.
 
[quote name='stoned99']Scratch issue is still a problem, sticker on the front of the S clearly warns about it, and I would say the S is usually dead quiet, unless the room is super hot (or like me you cover the vent by accident), and then it's quieter than the regular xbox when it's sitting idle.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Most of the noise I hear from my slim is actually the power brick, and I usually hear next to nothing unless I've had the system on for hours. It's nice to have a system where the game drowns out the system, instead of vice versa.

Oh, and the scratch issue... again, it warns you, but it's really not an 'issue', unless you jostle the system when it has a disc inside. Why this has ever deterred people from buying one, I have no idea. I believe there are 360s that have scratched stuff out of the blue, but I'm guessing it's a small percentage compared to 'I moved/hit/kicked/threw/punched/danced on the system' reasons.
 
Im having problems with my USB drives.

Lexar media 128mb USB drive wont even register when i plug it in.

SanDisk for Wii 2.0GB memory card in a card>USB adaptor reads as a digital camera under photos tab. When i click it, it says no photos found. When i click on the video or music tab it shows up as USB device.

Now these have worked in the past, so whats going on?
 
Do you have any other USB devices plugged in? Maybe something else is causing a conflict, or your USB has gone wonky? Do these work on your PC?
 
Yeah they work on my pc. I unplugged my wired controller and used a wireless and that didnt help. Its not important, just thought of using my own background image.
 
my 360 died and I'm out of warranty. my question is what is a better buy: the $150 Arcade and attaching my old harddrive or getting the new $200 4gb 360. I think I'm leaning towards getting the new one but is it worth the extra $50? Also, I've read that they tend to heat up quite a bit if you have it in the upright position.
 
I don't know, personally I'd go for the new one, since MAYBE it's more reliable (though could be less), it's quieter, and the old one won't have hard drives made for it anymore.

Of course the catch is it's not just $50 extra, it's like 150 more since you need the hard drive (although you can sell the drive to Gamestop to recoup a small part of that).

I don't know though, in that situation I'd still trade up...but then I'm not necessarily sensible about things like that :lol:
 
Would I really need to get a harddrive? Can't you just use a flash drive? I don't download games other than the occasional demo.
 
Yeah, you want a hard drive even if it's just a 20GB to install games to. Makes the hardware quieter and games can run better (some a tiny bit better, some a lot better).
 
[quote name='Mr. Brown']my 360 died and I'm out of warranty. my question is what is a better buy: the $150 Arcade and attaching my old harddrive or getting the new $200 4gb 360. I think I'm leaning towards getting the new one but is it worth the extra $50? Also, I've read that they tend to heat up quite a bit if you have it in the upright position.[/QUOTE]

1st Question, did you call MS to validate that you really are not covered. My xbox shows out of warranty on their support page, but when I called they did agree to fix it under the 3 yr extension.

2nd They will fix any xbox and give you a new warranty for 100$

3rd, A 4 Gig 360 is hopeless, you really need a hd to enjoy your 360 to it's full. It's rumored a add on hd will be sold, but the prices have yet to be announced (and they will be high).

Good luck.
 
[quote name='stoned99']1st Question, did you call MS to validate that you really are not covered. My xbox shows out of warranty on their support page, but when I called they did agree to fix it under the 3 yr extension.

2nd They will fix any xbox and give you a new warranty for 100$

3rd, A 4 Gig 360 is hopeless, you really need a hd to enjoy your 360 to it's full. It's rumored a add on hd will be sold, but the prices have yet to be announced (and they will be high).

Good luck.[/QUOTE]
1) yes and they said I'm not covered anymore
2) isn't the new warranty they would give me for repairing an out of warranty 360 only 1 year no matter what happens?
 
[quote name='Mr. Brown']1) yes and they said I'm not covered anymore
2) isn't the new warranty they would give me for repairing an out of warranty 360 only 1 year no matter what happens?[/QUOTE]

I'd heard it's the full year, but I could be wrong. The 90 days warranty is typically the refurb warranty from places like GS.

I have a slim with the hd, and not being able to install games would be a real loss, so the hd is a real winner in my book.
 
just got a new xbox 360 slim and everything's great except it didn't come with an xbox live gold card inside :( I thought all new systems came with a free 1 month gold card
 
[quote name='Mr. Brown']just got a new xbox 360 slim and everything's great except it didn't come with an xbox live gold card inside :( I thought all new systems came with a free 1 month gold card[/QUOTE]
It's not a card that's included. When you create a new gamertag on that 360, it will credit it with a month worth of Xbox Live Gold.
 
So I've been planning on getting the new Reach slim 360. Theres no reason that the hd dvd drive wouldnt work on these new 360s right? Anyone have and hd dvd drive hooked up to their slim?
 
[quote name='genfuyung']So I've been planning on getting the new Reach slim 360. Theres no reason that the hd dvd drive wouldnt work on these new 360s right? Anyone have and hd dvd drive hooked up to their slim?[/QUOTE]

I've got an hd drive connected to mine
 
Anybody have recommendations for the best place to get a 250 GB hard drive? Checked Amazon and saw a company called Biz-E-Bee selling them for $77.97 (without the transfer cable) and it seemed almost too good to be true.
 
[quote name='Killbomb']Anybody have recommendations for the best place to get a 250 GB hard drive? Checked Amazon and saw a company called Biz-E-Bee selling them for $77.97 (without the transfer cable) and it seemed almost too good to be true.[/QUOTE]

Almost definitely not official.
 
I can't figure out how to use a transfer kit. I have it plugged in properly, but its not doing anything automatically. I went into Console Settings > Memory and tried to transfer data from there but it tells me that my old 250GB HDD (have the new Xbox now) isn't setup for 360 memory and I'd have to format it.

Obviously if I format it, all of my data will be lost.

By the way its not an official transfer cable, its from Hong Kong >_
 
[quote name='freshzen']I can't figure out how to use a transfer kit. I have it plugged in properly, but its not doing anything automatically. I went into Console Settings > Memory and tried to transfer data from there but it tells me that my old 250GB HDD (have the new Xbox now) isn't setup for 360 memory and I'd have to format it.

Obviously if I format it, all of my data will be lost.

By the way its not an official transfer cable, its from Hong Kong >_
 
hmmm... makes me wonder if it's worth just getting the 4gb slim...find some coupons/reward zone certificates and get the hard drive cheap/free (using the coupons). I don't care for shininess or bling ...
 
incase anyone is wondering, i did a small test with the xbox 360 branded sandisk 16gb usb stick for it's read speed.

I checked to see the load time of an ondisc song of Rock Band 2 by pausing "Drain You" (in vocal mode) and selecting 'New Song' (timing it from the actual song select screen to the song "Drain You" wasn't consistent).

installed to Hard Drive was 3 to 4 seconds.
installed to USB was low 5 seconds.
Disc was high 5 seconds.

Also testing it's speeds using HD Speed program yielded about 18seconds. To get more accurate readings on speed I might have to reformat the stick for Windows use which I'll probably do later on.

Also, installing the game in the first place to the USB was abysmal.
 
I've been noticing a LOT of chat problems on my end recently. People tend to cut in and out a lot to the point where this is making me think I should be calling them on the phone instead. So I thought, even though everything else works, maybe this is one of those old fashioned NAT issues.

So my question is, did I take the right steps in setting a static IP and port forwarding?

I set my xbox to a static address of 192.168.1.101/255.255.255.0/192.168.1.1. I checked ipconfig to get the two DNS address and listed those under the manual settings as well.

I went to port forwarding under my router at set the appropriate ports open, but left my router at auto DHCP.

I think I did everything right and am curious if this is going to help my chat issues.
 
What's the correct setting for "Reference Levels" for a 2009 Samsung LCD or 2007 Sony? I've got it on "Expanded", but don't know if that's correct.

I assume HDMI Color Space should be left on Auto.

I think the Xbox's contrast isn't as good as the Playstation's for some reason...so I always wonder if I have it set right, but when I've played with it in the past it's sort of seemed like Expanded is best...
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']What's the correct setting for "Reference Levels" for a 2009 Samsung LCD or 2007 Sony? I've got it on "Expanded", but don't know if that's correct.[/QUOTE]
Reference Level effects the black level. Technically, you can use any setting and calibrate your tv to match, but Standard is generally the proper setting unless you're using VGA.
 
Thinking about running out this morning to pick up one of the new 250gb S models, since Target has the free controller deal going on this week. So, as a complete tech-moron, I have a few stupid questions that I'd really appreciate some help with.

1. Does the transfer kit come packed in, or is it something separate I need to buy? Do I need anything else besides the transfer kit to transfer all the XBLA games, game saves, etc from my old 20gb HDD to the new HDD?

2. If I put my old system into my son's room, once all the licenses have been transferred, will he be able to play the XBLA games on the old console? Will his game saves still be there? What about his Gamerscore? He's not on Live, even with a silver account; his has always just been one of 4 sub-accounts after mine. Will he need to re-register the old console and create a new Gamertag for himself? Sorry, I know this is several questions in one. I just have no idea how this part of it will work out.

I know this is probably real basic stuff, but thanks for any help, and thanks for (hopefully) not mocking me. :oops:
 
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I am planning to go out and buy a new slim this week, but wanted to get your opinions on whether or not there will be a good deal through best buy during labor day sales?

Any idea when the best buy labor day sales will be known online?

I have $200 gift card from them and its burning a hole in my wallet.
 
Quick question. reviewed the first post but didnt see it.

I have an arcade system...i want to get a gold account. I have a 256 memory card no hard drive.

I dont care about downloading stuff i just want to play online. Am I good or do I need a hard drive for this?

I know I know I should have this answer but I want to make sure before I buy a 12 month gold card.

Thanks in advance.
 
I never really thought about my situation because well I was gaming solo. I'll be moving and playing on my friend's 360. Since I don't need to bring my 360, if I bring my hard drive than I can play all my game saves, dlc, etc. Now would my friend have to swap in his hdd anytime he wants to play his games or use a memory stick to bring over all his data? Thx in advance.
 
just got a hard drive for my arcade console. plugged it in and went to system settings and memory but only my memory card was there, no hard drive. what am i doing wrong?
 
i plugged it in completly and now its working...duh

but...i cleared out everything on the hard drive and it only says that i have 13.8 gb left when theres nothing saved to it. whats up with that?
 
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