Wii U - General Discussion Thread

Richard Kain said:
It's still too early to second-guess any developments for the future shape of the home console industry. The Wii U may still be a cautionary tale for the PS4 and XBox One. While some game enthusiasts, developers, and publishers may be eager for a new console cycle, I'm not convinced that the same is true for the general consumer. And as I've pointed out many times, the real competition for all three new systems isn't each other, it's their predecessors. The 360 and PS3 continue to sell strong at their current prices, and can sell even stronger once they get another price reduction.

The general consumer is quite happy with the current level of video game hardware, and isn't going to be in any hurry to rush out and get a PS4 or an XBox One. The Wii U has just been an indication that the market's inertia toward more expensive, advanced units is going to be a serious issue with pushing new devices.
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This has always been the case since the NES. The older generation is cheap with a library of games. They always outsell the new hotness the first year. Companies just have to draw a line and decide to jumpstart next gen or there would never be a next gen. Build it and they will come. Early adopters sustain new consoles until a price drop and as new releases dry up for the older generation the general public buys in.

 
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Wonderful 101 direct coming up sometime today. I'm suddenly less interested after the producer essentially said you can beat it in a day or two. Then why am I paying $60 for this? I agree length isn't everything, but then everything shouldn't be $60 (which 99.9% of retail releases are).

 
Corvin said:
This has always been the case since the NES. The older generation is cheap with a library of games. They always outsell the new hotness the first year. Companies just have to draw a line and decide to jumpstart next gen or there would never be a next gen. Build it and they will come. Early adopters sustain new consoles until a price drop and as new releases dry up for the older generation the general public buys in.
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It didn't happen with the GameCube, or with the XBox. The 360 easily outsold the original XBox in its first year. And the Wii soundly trounced its predecessor's sales in its first year.

The point I'm making is that the transition is going to be much rougher now than it has been in the past. Usually by this point the existing platforms have worn out their welcome and everyone is ready for something new. The price gap between the old and new is usually different as well.

Going into this holiday season, we are dealing with a console transition like we've never seen before. The bump in perceived graphical quality is going to be much more gradual. We are definitely wading into the area of diminishing returns where the average consumer is concerned. The immediate difference won't be nearly as obvious. The price of the existing platforms has also been kept much higher than in previous generations. Both the 360 and PS3 are still averaging in the mid $200 range, neither has ever really dropped below that.

 
Richard Kain said:
It didn't happen with the GameCube, or with the XBox. The 360 easily outsold the original XBox in its first year. And the Wii soundly trounced its predecessor's sales in its first year.

The point I'm making is that the transition is going to be much rougher now than it has been in the past. Usually by this point the existing platforms have worn out their welcome and everyone is ready for something new. The price gap between the old and new is usually different as well.

Going into this holiday season, we are dealing with a console transition like we've never seen before. The bump in perceived graphical quality is going to be much more gradual. We are definitely wading into the area of diminishing returns where the average consumer is concerned. The immediate difference won't be nearly as obvious. The price of the existing platforms has also been kept much higher than in previous generations. Both the 360 and PS3 are still averaging in the mid $200 range, neither has ever really dropped below that.
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This is more of a ps2 to ps3 cycle than Xbox to Xbox 360 because if you recall, MS cut all development on the Xbox and stopped publishing on it to rush out the 360 ahead of the ps3. MS isn't doing that this time because they want to make profits. They're selling the 360 significantly above cost at this point.
 
Blaster man said:
This is more of a ps2 to ps3 cycle than Xbox to Xbox 360 because if you recall, MS cut all development on the Xbox and stopped publishing on it to rush out the 360 ahead of the ps3. MS isn't doing that this time because they want to make profits. They're selling the 360 significantly above cost at this point.
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You're right. But when was the last time that this situation applied to ALL the prospective competitors? Nintendo had already sold an obscene number of Wii's. Microsoft and Sony can both ride their current consoles for another two to three years, minimum. This level of entrenchment from two separate competitors has never existed. We're dealing with an unprecedented situation, and there's no way to properly predict how its going to shake out.

 
Yeah, every hardware generation has always seen a significant change, and the graphics trump card that always worked well from the 4 to 128 bit era has worn off.  HDMI format and the boon of HDTVs really helped the PS3 and 360 become more common household electronics in places they were never there before, but there is really no such push anymore.

All three companies have used up the unique control method avenue to draw in casuals, so the only thing left that I see being pushed as a difference is the social media aspect of these consoles.  They may be marketed as the all in one media center, but so was the last console generation.

I know that processor wise the newest consoles are pushing much more than their predecessors, but can you even tell the (significant) difference in the screen shots and adverts?  The common joe is not going to care much about how improved the frame rates are and how many more character models they can display simultaneously without slowdown, it still looks HD to them.  And by their knowledge, the current console gen can already do HD, so what would be the incentive to upgrade (besides platform abandonment, that is)?

 
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The average consumer might not know or care about the tech behind the new consoles, but I believe it will be painfully clear that they are miles ahead of the current systems.

Sure they're both HD, but if you've played a newer PC game with the settings cranked up, you'll know there's a whole lot of room for improvement beyond what the PS3 and 360 are currently offering.
 
I think the main argument here is Holiday 2013.  I doubt Watch Dogs PS3 vs PS4 will be strikingly different, though of course give another 2-3 years of development time and that gap will widen.  I was comparing PS2 to PS3, for example, where even the PS3 launch titles looked drastically different than the end of cycle PS2 games.

What I'm arguing is that first initial impression for the non-dedicated gamers will not be lasting in the graphics department, not as much as it has been in the past.

 
pippin said:
The average consumer might not know or care about the tech behind the new consoles, but I believe it will be painfully clear that they are miles ahead of the current systems.

Sure they're both HD, but if you've played a newer PC game with the settings cranked up, you'll know there's a whole lot of room for improvement beyond what the PS3 and 360 are currently offering.
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And how many general consumers have played PC games recently with the settings cranked up? How many of those will even feel the need for a new home console if they already own a PC that can crank the settings all the way up? And even then, how many of them can actually tell the visual differences when they are sitting more than 10 feet away from their screen?

You can't equate PC graphics with console graphics. The two formats are fundamentally different in how they are experienced. PC gaming happens at a desk, console gaming happens on a couch. With PC gaming you're never more than a few feet from the screen. With console gaming you're always further away from the screen. (ideally no less than six feet)

As far as the average consumer will be concerned, the only difference between the XBox One and XBox 360 is $300 USD. The difference between the PS3 and PS4 is going to be $150 USD. Most of them won't know or care about a lot of the technology-enhanced special features of these systems. All they'll know is that they can still get games for the PS3 and 360, and that's enough.

This is part of the reason why the lackluster sales of the Wii U are so worrying. With the Wii U there WAS a technology-based reason for acquiring the system. The Wii's hardware was never powerful to begin with, and it was designed to top out at 480p. Being able to finally get Nintendo games at 1080p is a pretty substantial selling point. But the price difference, along with cheaper alternatives like the 360 and PS3, are holding the Wii U back. The same will hold true for the XBox One and PS4.

 
Richard Kain said:
And how many general consumers have played PC games recently with the settings cranked up? How many of those will even feel the need for a new home console if they already own a PC that can crank the settings all the way up? And even then, how many of them can actually tell the visual differences when they are sitting more than 10 feet away from their screen?

You can't equate PC graphics with console graphics. The two formats are fundamentally different in how they are experienced. PC gaming happens at a desk, console gaming happens on a couch. With PC gaming you're never more than a few feet from the screen. With console gaming you're always further away from the screen. (ideally no less than six feet)

As far as the average consumer will be concerned, the only difference between the XBox One and XBox 360 is $300 USD. The difference between the PS3 and PS4 is going to be $150 USD. Most of them won't know or care about a lot of the technology-enhanced special features of these systems. All they'll know is that they can still get games for the PS3 and 360, and that's enough.

This is part of the reason why the lackluster sales of the Wii U are so worrying. With the Wii U there WAS a technology-based reason for acquiring the system. The Wii's hardware was never powerful to begin with, and it was designed to top out at 480p. Being able to finally get Nintendo games at 1080p is a pretty substantial selling point. But the price difference, along with cheaper alternatives like the 360 and PS3, are holding the Wii U back. The same will hold true for the XBox One and PS4.
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Ummm... How minuscule are the differences between each iteration of the iPad and iPhone? And those are released just about every year!

People will have no problem adopting.

 
GBAstar said:
Ummm... How minuscule are the differences between each iteration of the iPad and iPhone? And those are released just about every year!

People will have no problem adopting.
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Mobile tablets != home consoles in the same way that PC != home consoles. There is no direct comparison.

People are much more reluctant to upgrade home consoles than they are to buy new iPads. I can't explain why. Apple seems to do something to people's brains that makes them instantly want to part with hundreds of dollars for incremental upgrades. I still don't own an iPad, or even an Android tablet. I don't need one.

The people who follow the video game industry will be there for day one on the XBox One and PS4. But a lot of those people were also there for the Wii U's launch. That crowd is not enough to jump-start the "next-generation" of home consoles. That crowd is not going to be moving multiple millions of consoles in a single year. The huge home console launches are a thing of the past. All three of the current console holders need to get used to the idea of a much slower burn. There could still be a future for the Wii U, XBox One, and PS4, but it isn't going to be off to a quick start.

 
What apple does is they discontinue the new iOS software for older devices. Every 2-3 years or so they also discontinue certain products and replace with new versions. This isn't like a games console where you can play games on it for forever straight until it breaks. As far as I know if you have to update a game console the update is either on the disc, cartridge or you can download it, they don't make multiple versions of hardware where the earliest ones are incompatible with the latest software update. Once you buy a game on a disc you can theoretically play it forever as long as your console doesn't break or if the game uses online servers as long as the servers stay up.

When apple discontinues the software and your device is not upgradeable to the new software what happens is apps become not-usable because the apps require the new software. Now if you have the old version of the app on your device you can keep it there and use it without updating but most apps require wifi or a cellular connection so app makers can make older app versions no longer function whenever they want to. This could potentially leave some users with a paperweight depending on what the device was used for.

This forces consumers to upgrade their apple tech every 2 years or so if you want to keep using your apps that you may have paid for. Apple batteries also suck, you won't be getting more than 2-3 years out of your device anyways since the battery cannot be replaced by the user. Anyways by this time in the products life cycle you don't want to pay $80-100 for some shop to replace the battery in your device with one they bought on eBay from china that probably cost them $2-3 and might explode in your pocket or when charging the device for a device that will soon no longer run the apps you use on a daily basis....
 
Cell phones are a horrible comparison. If you don't take a subsidized phone then you're bad at math and shouldn't even have a phone. The subsidies are built into the price you pay so unless you use tmobile you're paying for a subsidized phone even if you aren't on contract. Tmobile is the only provider in the US that charges less if you own your phone.
 
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Blaster man said:
Cell phones are a horrible comparison.
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Tablets... laptops... media players....

is that better for you?

Point being is that there are plenty of high end high priced electronics that people buy and then re-buy newer versions every 1,2,3, years.

Spending $500 and 7 years later spending another $500 on a new gaming console isn't OMG REDICULOUS by American consumer standards. As I said before there won't be any problems with people adopting the new software... unless word of mouth says it sucks.

 
If consoles go the way of phones/tablets, then I think thats when I stop and just go with PC.

Anyone who WANTS a new console to come out every year or 2, should just not play consoles.

 
GBAstar said:
Spending $500 and 7 years later spending another $500 on a new gaming console isn't OMG REDICULOUS by American consumer standards. As I said before there won't be any problems with people adopting the new software... unless word of mouth says it sucks.
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In theory you should be correct. But in practice, there is some sort of mental block against spending $500 on a home console in the minds of the average consumer. The same people who are willing to regularly drop $500+ on iPads, droid tablets, or new smart phones balk at the idea of spending the same amount on a new home console.

There are various factors at play here. A big one is the modern nature of gaming, and status. In this day and age, most people who can afford these kinds of devices don't often have people over to play games locally. And thanks to the lingering social stigma against traditional gaming, a lot of those individuals wouldn't be so eager to "show off" their new home console anyway. Devices such as that don't often get priority when it comes to spending the big bucks. But smart phones and tablets are "on-the-go" devices, and don't have the same negative social repercussions. It is considered perfectly natural to show off your new cell phone or tablet to everyone around you. Portable technology has become a modern symbol of status, and has reaped the financial benefits thereof.

I'm an antisocial individualist who loves his video games. I don't have any issue spending this kind of money on new consoles every so often. It's even easier for me now since both Microsoft and Sony have kept this current generation going as long as it has. And because I don't feel the need to keep up with the Jones' on my cell phone, its easier for me to afford them. But I'm not a typical example of the U.S. consumer.

 
GBAstar said:
Tablets... laptops... media players....

is that better for you?
Point being is that there are plenty of high end high priced electronics that people buy and then re-buy newer versions every 1,2,3, years.

Spending $500 and 7 years later spending another $500 on a new gaming console isn't OMG REDICULOUS by American consumer standards. As I said before there won't be any problems with people adopting the new software... unless word of mouth says it sucks.
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I agree with you but I don't think you understand what's happening in the markets you're thinking are comparable. Media player sales are dropping dramatically year over year because of smartphones. Laptop sales are collapsing and laptops are quickly becoming a niche product. Tablet sales are accelerating because the market isn't saturated yet and because people are largely replacing laptops with tablets. For my family, I'd much rather but a tablet than a new laptop because I have a desktop PC and don't need another PC. You can see this trend in laptop prices. The margins have collapsed and you can now get a $400 laptop where once that would have been 600-800 and a netbook would be 200-400 (netbooks have been completely killed by tablets). Dell is in huge trouble because of this trend.

So yeah some people probably buy a new device every year or two but outside of cellphones most people are waiting 4-5 years as they traditionally did with a PC. While a noticeable performance upgrade can happen with a tablet which justifies an upgrade after half a decade, I don't even think people see anything like that in PC's. heck I've got a PC with and i3 processor and 8gb of RAM and there's absolutely none of the issues a PC in the 90's would have had. It's super fast and any performance increase by buying a new PC would be barely noticeable.
 
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Erad30 said:
The Wonderful 101 demo is pretty awesome. I'm in.
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Back on topic...The demo was okay. I felt like it was a bit half baked as a demo, since there was very little introduction into your 'super powers', and complete arsenal of weapons.

Also disliked some of the QTEs, as they seemed a bit forced. If I have to read anything beyond a quick input ( think multi-input, which requires precision, and which is partially blocked by other lettering), then you have a problem.

 
dragonjud said:
Back on topic...The demo was okay. I felt like it was a bit half baked as a demo, since there was very little introduction into your 'super powers', and complete arsenal of weapons.

Also disliked some of the QTEs, as they seemed a bit forced. If I have to read anything beyond a quick input ( think multi-input, which requires precision, and which is partially blocked by other lettering), then you have a problem.
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agreed. i wasnt impressed by the demo. i used the sword & mindlessly slashed throught the whole demo only changing to the hand when i had to turn a knob. its also very meh graphically. ill wait to catch it on sale.

 
i will stick with pikmin 3 w 101 is nothing more then a wannabe pikmin demo was boring and only level is very easy easy and normal lol. What were they thinking bring out the same type of game so close together.

 
You know, that post basically sums it up, doesn't it?

The Wii U has no games being released = complain.

The Wii U starts to release games = complain.
 

Anyway, with the exception of having MANY characters on screen, Pikmin and W101 don't play similarly at all. That said, I was underwhelmed by the demo the first time I played it, but I think that's because there's just SO MUCH going on that the game doesn't really explain. Once I played again it sort of... clicked. Can't wait 'til release. To me, this is an example of a game that wouldn't exist on a non-Nintendo system, and I'm sort of grateful for that. I ended up having a hell of a lot of fun with it.

 
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007 said:
You know, that post basically sums it up, doesn't it?

The Wii U has no games being released = complain.

The Wii U starts to release games = complain.

Anyway, with the exception of having MANY characters on screen, Pikmin and W101 don't play similarly at all. That said, I was underwhelmed by the demo the first time I played it, but I think that's because there's just SO MUCH going on that the game doesn't really explain. Once I played again it sort of... clicked. Can't wait 'til release. To me, this is an example of a game that wouldn't exist on a non-Nintendo system, and I'm sort of grateful for that. I ended up having a hell of a lot of fun with it.
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at this point i don't have issues with wii u no games and the not so great coming out for it. I just hate that nintendo was up and up about all the great 3rd party support this system would have and now companys are starting to take out features of games for som reason we might never know. Nintendo needs to get off their high horse thinking they are the best and realize they need to put some money down on the table to 3rd party game makers like ms and sony does and get better 3rd party support. Lets get some of these big companys to put exlusive stuff on the wii u like dlc and what not. The next game i will be buying for wii u will be smash bro and who knows when thats coming out. The zelda remake is nice but i will not pay 50 bucks for a remake of a game when i still have the game for gamecube and enjoy that still.

 
... you realize, though, that you just complained about a third party game that Nintendo *did* throw money down for, right?

Honestly, I give up on trying to even argue this train of thought anymore. If you wanted third party, the launch line-up alone should have indicated the level that the Wii U was going to receive. Ports of year-old games. Ports of games from 4 months prior that were actually on-par with the PRIOR entry. Ports of really old games that they charged full price for even after announcing that the ENTIRE SERIES would be available on other systems for cheaper. It was pretty obvious early on that the Wii U wasn't really going to be supported, and the stumble out the gate killed any other hopes dead. Even the companies that really seemed to throw their weight behind the Wii U (Activision, WB, Ubisoft) have almost entirely backed off... you don't pull features and not release DLC for markets you give even one iota of a shit about. This isn't about Nintendo not tossing money around... I've never seen third parties refuse to give a system even the most BASIC of features for ports. Let's get to the level where these games are COMPLETELY on-par with other versions, then we'll talk about 'exclusive DLC' and whatnot.

And if the next game you're buying is Smash, then I'm not sure why you bought the system in the first place. If nothing about W101, Wind Waker, DKC, Mario World, and Mario Kart interests you, then, uh, you might have made a poor purchase. It blows my mind that people buy Nintendo systems and then claim they don't want Nintendo games.

 
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It's looking like no price cut is coming for the Wii U this Christmas.  There was recently a news article stating that Nintendo is still losing money on Wii U's and now there's this:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/08/satoru_iwata_cites_poor_basic_wii_u_sales_to_rule_out_price_cut_benefits

WTF?  People aren't buying the Basic because the only people buying it at all are core Nintendo gamers that are educated and are not price sensitive with Nintendo hardware.  So my predictions of a price cut this holiday look to be wrong.  They're seriously going to pit the $350 Wii U against the $400 PS4 and PS360's with probable price drops.

Dreader - this is for you. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

 
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They won't cut the price but you can bet your ass that they'll replace the current Deluxe bundle and pack in more add-ons.  My money's on Wind Waker HD, Nintendo Land and maybe a Pro controller.

 
MetalSlugger said:
They won't cut the price but you can bet your ass that they'll replace the current Deluxe bundle and pack in more add-ons. My money's on Wind Waker HD, Nintendo Land and maybe a Pro controller.
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Eventually maybe. I'm not especially confident that it will happen this year though. I just can't see Nintendo putting their new games into a bundle without raising the bundle price.
 
I still think from a retail perception angle it is wrong to keep the same price and bundle more stuff in.  People will still see it as $350 vs. $400 (Wii U vs. PS4) even if they threw the entire Wii U library in to the bundle.  It is all about first impressions and low information buyers.  They really need to dump the Basic and make the Deluxe $300.  I never saw the need for a $100 price cut like so many others (Wombat is being pretty annoying about it on the CAGcast and Twitter - c'mon Wombat, obviously you want the system - just buy the damn thing! ;)).  But for sure I thought they'd replace the Basic with the Deluxe at the $300 price point.  That compared very favorably to PS4/One given that it is $100-$200 cheaper and comes with a game (and no need for PS+/Xbox Live Gold).

 
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MetalSlugger said:
They won't cut the price but you can bet your ass that they'll replace the current Deluxe bundle and pack in more add-ons. My money's on Wind Waker HD, Nintendo Land and maybe a Pro controller.
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I think bundling a Wii-U with a pro controller could be confusing for the casual audience. I don't see bundling two different controllers with the system smart. They are better off bundling Nintendoland with either Mario Bros U or e-shop credit.

 
i could very well see a drop of white version and drop price of current black system to 300 then come out with bundle with games and possible bigger hard drive for 350. I go back to the giant walmart canada sale couple weeks ago for still thinking the white system is good but gone.

 
NSMBU would be a good choice too.  I'm still going with WWHD since they have a history of including Zelda remasters in system bundles.  Plus a brand new release would be much more enticing for a potential buyer than a (admittedly wonderful) game that has been available since launch.

 
moothemagiccow said:
Of course, cheaper games never make money. No one's ever invested a million dollars on something and gotten half back. As for Nintendo's staffing, they've got fewer employees than Ubisoft. They've never understood staffing, except when the Wii made them the most profitable company per capita.

Speaking of money, shouldn't you be losing some on the stock market right now?
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Blaster man said:
Of course people make money if they can make a game for a million dollars. Unfortunately that's not easy to do in the HD era. If you're more capable at doing this then maybe you can work for these guys and make a fortune. Usually the people that make games by themselves or with one or two other people don't get paid until the game sells. They're gambling and hoping it pays off.

You sure are interested in my stock picks huh? Well I bought a bunch of EA stock at $13 and I picked up some Apple stock at 425 so I'm doing alright. Thanks for asking! Tim Cook recently talked to the head of China Mobile which has 700 million users. If they can get the iPhone on that carrier then that's going to rocket the stock to the moon. It should get back to 600 easily at that point.
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http://9to5mac.com/2013/08/13/investor-carl-icahn-takes-large-position-in-aapl-stock-goes-up/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+9To5Mac-MacAllDay+%289+to+5+Mac+-+Apple+Intelligence%29
 
Picked up a new 8GB Wii U from eBay for $245. Originally went with the Deluxe at Best Buy when they had the $50 GC deal but figured I'd use the savings on a external HD and a better game.
 
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SweetP1983 said:
Picked up a new 8GB Wii U from eBay for $245. Originally went with the Deluxe at Best Buy when they had the $50 GC deal but figured I'd use the savings on a external HD and a better game.
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If you can find Nintendoland cheap, I would still recommend it. It is nice to have a party game around just to mess around with.

 
Oh man, that W101 demo is a blast!  I had no idea what the hell I was doing, but I was smiling the entire time.  Of course I played it after the Newegg promo ran out, so now I'm debating preordering at full price, or waiting for a future drop...

 
Zmonkay said:
Oh man, that W101 demo is a blast! I had no idea what the hell I was doing, but I was smiling the entire time. Of course I played it after the Newegg promo ran out, so now I'm debating preordering at full price, or waiting for a future drop...
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Amazon has a $5 of $25 on all orders including pre-orders. If you can get this game to show up in your gold box deals, then you can get the game for $52.

 
hey CAGs,

sorry for the noob question (i've scanned +10pgs of threads in the 'wii u, wii, ...' forum, but don't wanna scan the +140pgs of posts in this one):

will 'wii u' games play on a wii? will just the non-touchpad content be missing, or will none of the game work at all? 'wii u' games look very tempting, but i dunno if i'm ready to buy another console right now. TIA.

 
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