Xbox Banning Discussion

I do own my own business.

If I catch someone stealing from me I prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.

If I price something incorrectly, I eat it. Then I correct it. Only good business. Customer retention is first priority.

Case Closed.

 
whoknows said:
Microsoft code of conduct says so.

By using Xbox Live you agreed to it.
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I just finished reading the Code of Conduct: www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/CodeOfConduct

I was not able to find any mention of which people "who the content was free for specifically" as you said it did. If you are able to point out to me where it does say who is allowed to access which content for free, I will admit I made an error and apologize. I am sure that you are also mature and adult enough to do the same if it turns out that you are in error.

So could you please direct me to the section of the code of conduct where is says which users are allowed to get which content for free?

 
Element3120 said:
so say your on vacation, you rent a hotel and are enjoying it but it doesn't have one of those free continental breakfast deals. but the hotel next door does, you walk in and make yourself at home. next thing you know your being thrown out and the hotel you stayed in is also owned by the same company, they also toss you out. no refund and possibly police involved.

Explanations shouldn't be needed. own a business and get stolen from and see how you feel about it, case fuckin closed.
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Then you should have no problem whatsoever defining "steal" so we can all make sure we are on the same page.

Also, your analogy is very flawed. Any analogy that does not end up with "you go up to a cash register and ask how much the item costs before being told it is free" is going to be flawed. Why? Because when someone who did these downloads got to the "checkout page" (the digital equivelent of a cash register) they were "told" the price was free. So perhaps you should incorporate that into your next analogy.

 
TimmahBoy2009 said:
I do own my own business.

If I catch someone stealing from me I prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.

If I price something incorrectly, I eat it. Then I correct it. Only good business. Customer retention is first priority.

Case Closed.
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Im glad you have faith in those who had stolen from you, currently Microsoft cant trust those who did so the only result is to punish them in a way at which their rules deem fit. Customer retention isn't needed they have good paying honest customers... now...

 
RiceQuakes said:
Did I ever say that? It can obviously be stealing in some cases, like when you pirate, but no one pirated.
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You didn't however people in this thread have been.

eldergias said:
I just finished reading the Code of Conduct: www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/CodeOfConduct

I was not able to find any mention of which people "who the content was free for specifically" as you said it did. If you are able to point out to me where it does say who is allowed to access which content for free, I will admit I made an error and apologize. I am sure that you are also mature and adult enough to do the same if it turns out that you are in error.

So could you please direct me to the section of the code of conduct where is says which users are allowed to get which content for free?
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Using fraudulent methods to obtain content. Saying you live in a country that you in fact do not seems like a pretty fraudulent method to obtain something to me.

 
eldergias said:
I just finished reading the Code of Conduct: www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/CodeOfConduct

I was not able to find any mention of which people "who the content was free for specifically" as you said it did. If you are able to point out to me where it does say who is allowed to access which content for free, I will admit I made an error and apologize. I am sure that you are also mature and adult enough to do the same if it turns out that you are in error.

So could you please direct me to the section of the code of conduct where is says which users are allowed to get which content for free?
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Uh oh! Pretty off topic, but I found this:

"Do not purchase Microsoft Points, Xbox Live Gold memberships, games or any additional content from unauthorized third-parties."

Better only buy the "official" MS stuff. Otherwise, you are stealing from MS because you aren't buying their stuff that was officially licensed (gotta give MS their dues).

 
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if it was free in your country of residence and your account was from your country's marketplace this wouldn't be an issue. don't waste your time find a resolution and be honest next time

 
eklipse said:
My console was banned sometime today (it was fine last night I played until about 3am).

So just because it is saturday, they have not stopped banning. I also had a profile banned for exploiting the one month of free Xbox Live promotion just a few hours ago.
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well this isn't good news. I've done both. I'll just stay off that profile for a while.
 
Element3120 said:
if it was free in your country of residence and your account was from your country's marketplace this wouldn't be an issue. don't waste your time find a resolution and be honest next time
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Apparently, you aren't that moral then. Others are even more perfect because they say, even if it was displayed as free in the US, that it is still wrong. Shame on you!

 
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I don't know what countries you all are from, but here is a bit of insight into US law that you should consider.  When something is mispriced in many states, there are specific laws that handle misprices.  If it is a misprice of more than 10% and the misprice is due to a shifted decimal point ($100.00 -> $10.00) then the misstated price does not need to be honored.  However, if it is not due to a shifted decimal place, then if the price was advertised a retraction must be issued via the same advertising means or any restirctions in the fine print of the advertisement can still be followed (some say that the sale offer may be cancelled at any time, or "while supplies last").  In situations such as grocery items where the label price and shelf price do not match, this can vary by state.  Some states require the grocery store provide you the mis labeled item free of charge.  Some states require you get the lower of the prices.  Some state require you get it for some % lower than the lower of the prices.

All of these law point to one thing: the mistake is squarely, firmly, and solely with the store operator.  They have control of the inventory, store access, and pricing.  Any mistake in the pricing is their fault.

Source: My 3 years in law school and my J.D.  If you don't want to believe me, do a couple minutes of google-fu and you will see I am right.

So again, I ask each of you who keeps using the words "theft" or "stealing" to please either define those words or stop talking altogether, since none of you have provided your definitions for words you keep using over and over.  I am fairly confident you do not know what they mean.

 
also have none of you ever had a law class? Your argument over theft would go 1000 different ways in court depending on the judge and circumstances for each individual person. Its droll conversation. You all just want to be right. Its only human, but very pointless, especially in this case.

 
If it was in the US store and you indeed lived in the US and had a US account I would agree with you.

Instead, it was in the Bosnian store and somehow I doubt any of you actually are in Bosnia. 

EDIT: This is in reply to the wall of text.

 
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whoknows said:
If it was in the US store and you indeed lived in the US and had a US account I would agree with you.

Instead, it was in the Bosnian store and somehow I doubt any of you actually are in Bosnia.

EDIT: This is in reply to the wall of text.
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So it wouldn't be stealing then? Just a glitch? Gotcha.

 
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my point is and always has been if its free for your country of residence it is free plain and simple. but no matter how many buisnesses u own or law classes you take the rules were no fraudulent accounts, being right or wrong isn't the case its what happened that matters and you cant do a thing about it now, it was in the rules and now you ppl are bitching. be a fuckin man and swallow your pill like one

 
whoknows said:
Was it a glitch for it to be free for Bosnia?
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Seeing as it was showing as free on Xbox.com, I'd say yes, it was a glitch. No one used any 3rd party method to make it free. The only thing people did was make an account, which is the only thing I can see an argument for.

 
RiceQuakes said:
Seeing as it was showing as free on Xbox.com, I'd say yes, it was a glitch. No one used any 3rd party method to make it free. The only thing people did was make an account, which is the only thing I can see an argument for.
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I haven't seen anything about it being a glitch, so I'm going with it wasn't until MS or someone official says otherwise.

And making an account and lying about the country you live is a fraudulent way to get it.

 
Element3120 said:
my point is and always has been if its free for your country of residence it is free plain and simple. but no matter how many buisnesses u own or law classes you take the rules were no fraudulent accounts, being right or wrong isn't the case its what happened that matters and you cant do a thing about it now, it was in the rules and now you ppl are bitching. be a fuckin man and swallow your pill like one
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Only whining I hear is coming from you. No one has been complaining until people like you come to the thread just to antagonize people into starting these stupid and pointless debates.

 
whoknows said:
You didn't however people in this thread have been.

Using fraudulent methods to obtain content. Saying you live in a country that you in fact do not seems like a pretty fraudulent method to obtain something to me.
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1) That does not give a list of who the content is free for and who is it not free for, as you stated.

2) When was the last time you went through an account creation process? Just to humor you, I went part way through the process just now so I could respond to your post. In the first section of the account creation it asks "Where are you from?". But on the next step of the process, after this page (with name, email, your country, phone number, ect) there is another drop box which is simple entitled "Country/Region" (Proof). It does not say "Where are you from?" or "Your Country/Region", it is simply asking what region would you like to have a xbl account it. Since this is the box that determins which region account you have, you will need to do some pretty interesting explaining as to how putting some other region than the one you live in is "fraudulent" when they are not asking you to put what region you live in.

So are you willing to admit that you were wrong about needing to lie about what country you live in to create a foreign account?

 
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whoknows said:
I haven't seen anything about it being a glitch, so I'm going with it wasn't until MS or someone official says otherwise.

And making an account and lying about the country you live is a fraudulent way to get it.
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LOL. You did not see the hubub at the very beginning, when the glitch first popped up? There were links to the Bosnia Marketplace for people to see the games listed as free (because now you need a credit card on record).

If making an account for another region is wrong, then anyone who made an account for Japan (like me), to get demos/themes/ gamerpics, should be banned too.

 
Guys, stop.

This thread is not the place for arguing whether this was a glitch or stealing. 

Do not fight, insult, or troll.  This should be common sense.

 
whoknows said:
I haven't seen anything about it being a glitch, so I'm going with it wasn't until MS or someone official says otherwise.

.
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Well good luck with that. If you go back to my post page 32, it was explained already how M$'s different departments don't know what the others are doing. It was a pricing error on M$ part. Period. If the button says "Free Download" then a free download it is.

I have bought many games from the German and Hungarian marketplace with no problems, as well as downloading free demos and trials from there.

 
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RiceQuakes said:
LOL. You did not see the hubub at the very beginning, when the glitch first popped up? There were links to the Bosnia Marketplace for people to see the games listed as free (because now you need a credit card on record).

If making an account for another region is wrong, then anyone who made an account for Japan (like me), to get demos/themes/ gamerpics, should be banned too.
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I just I went part way through the process just now so I could confirm if you need to lie at any point or not. In the first section of the account creation it asks "Where are you from?". But on the next step of the process, after this page (with name, email, your country, phone number, ect) there is another drop box which is simple entitled "Country/Region" (Proof). It does not say "Where are you from?" or "Your Country/Region", it is simply asking what region would you like to have a xbl account it. This is the box that determins which region account you have. There is no lying involved. If MS didn't want people making accounts in different regions, then "Where are you from?" country and "Country/Region" country would be one box, not two. This implementation specifically allows for making foreign accounts.

 
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The guy from Blooddragon is right. Thank you for removing the trolls posts. How do you block a user's posts? This situation has seemed to rallied the most annoying people to these threads. Instead of helping gather information they are intent on causing trouble.

eldergias its fun reading your posts. You remind me of a Vulcan friend I once knew.

 
 
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I think it would be nice for someone (Trakan) to edit the OP of this thread and put that poll in there... It'd be a lot easier to check on it... And yeah, I don't understand why the people that didn't take part in this insist on coming in here and explaining to everyone what their idea of stealing is...

Also, it'd be helpful if the people that have been banned, or get banned in the near future to state what country they are from... Even though it seems the bans are being handed out randomly.

 
Well to give a little insight..

I downloaded Injustice along with the other free games off of a Morocco account, I then made a second one and did it again with intent on sharing that account with a friend. Now I never actually finished the downloads for any of the games, I cancelled them all and planned on downloading them from the history until I learned they will no longer work on a Morocco account.

So having never finished or played any of the games, I recieved a console ban but no profiles were banned, most likely because none of said games were ever played even on the original profiles they were downloaded on.

I obviously can't confirm this but I have about 5 profiles on my Xbox 360, I have no 'main' profile so maybe that is why I only recieved a console ban considering I never downloaded the games and since I have no way of playing them because it is already patched for Morocco accounts they are not going to give out a profile ban.

I think what I can gather from this is MAYBE if you downloaded Injustice from a Morocco account you only recieve a console ban, because you can't download the game again off that profile they already patched it and since the game has never been played on any of my profiles they see no issue with that since they believe there is no way I could play the game now.

 
the Gooseler said:
The guy from Blooddragon is right. Thank you for removing the trolls posts. How do you block a user's posts? This situation has seemed to rallied the most annoying people to these threads. Instead of helping gather information they are intent on causing trouble.

eldergias its fun reading your posts. You remind me of a Vulcan friend I once knew.
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That is an extremely high compliment, thank you. Logic and reason will always prevail. It may be that my logic and reason are faulty and someone needs to demonstrate how I am wrong, but in the end logic and reason lead to the truth.

As for this topic, I may be going out on a limb here (but by my reasoning) I think that people who have already seen some sort of moderation due to this "fiasco" are done receiving moderation. My reason for such belief is thus; there have been people who have had console bans, maint account bans, and/or alt-account bans. Some people have had account bans coupled with console bans, some have not.

(Speaking from the imagined mindset of XBLPET) The method by which the enforecement team determine which acocunt to ban is easy enough to understand: which accounts appear "unauthorized" based on their account information, creation date, and possibly IP. Similarly, if someone has had a console ban, it is easy enough to understand the method of detection: which consoles have downloaded the offending games via profiles that were "unauthorized". They would need to make sure it was by "unauthorized" accounts since banning a console of someone who legitimately purchased this content would be counterproductive. So they could check which console the content is linked to based on the console license generated when the "unauthorized" account received the account license. Based on that, ease of work and efficiency would dictate that the accounts and consoles be banned together, rather than rehashing over the same information multiple times.

So if you have had your accounts banned, I find it unlikely your console will be banned in the future since the information on which console it was was already at their fingertips. Similarly, if you had a console ban and no main account ban, it seems unlikely that your account will be banned since they could most easily have gotten your main account information at the time of issuing the console ban.

It seems most likely that the people who have more to fear are those that have receive no bans yet, since they don't know what type of ban they may get. As for the people who had main account bans, I feel truely truely sorry for you. I sincerely hope you all are not as addicted to achievements and profile progression as I am.

 
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I know this is weird but after reading all of this one thing has been ringing in my head, 'I bet I can make an analogy for what happened," so here we go.

  You go to a candy store and see a special 'Fakian Only' section and in said section there are several premium candies marked 'Free' stuck out of reach, presumably because the owner assumed no one from Fake would be in his store any time soon. You stand on a ladder that the staff left in the aisle to grab these candies and head to the cashier. The cashier asks if you like things from Fake and you say yes, bada-bing bada-boom, he sells you the candy at the marked price.

  When the owner hears of your actions, he bans you from his candy store for life, terminates your monthly candy with friends service and invalidates your 'For Life' purchases without any refunds.

Was the store owner a dingus for not posting place-holder prices or at the least requiring proof of residency? Yes. :p

May the owner want to get a better cashier? Likely.

Did he react fairly? No. (From my viewpoint, but for the record he was likely within his rights on all decisions, even the 'For Life' one. Be wary of the ToS)

Were you morally in the wrong? Yes. (Arguably since morals change on a person to person basis)

Did you break the law? No. (In the US anyway; Theft is the removal of property without permission, you bought it. Piracy only applies to illegal distributions so it's a null point.)

 
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BlueofFLE said:
I know this is weird but after reading all of this one thing has been ringing in my head, 'I bet I can make an analogy for what happened," so here we go.

You go to a candy store and see a special 'Fakian Only' section and in said section there are several premium candies marked 'Free' stuck out of reach, presumably because the owner assumed no one from Fake would be in his store any time soon. You stand on a ladder that the staff left in the aisle to grab these candies and head to the cashier. The cashier asks if you are from Fake and you say yes, bada-bing bada-boom, he sells you the candy at the marked price.

When the owner hears of your actions, he bans you from his candy store for life, terminates your monthly candy with friends service and invalidates your 'For Life' purchases without any refunds.

Was the store owner a dingus for not posting place-holder prices or at the least requiring proof of residency? Yes. :p

May the owner want to get a better cashier? Likely.

Did he react fairly? No. (From my viewpoint, but for the record he was likely within his rights on all decisions, even the 'For Life' one. Be wary of the ToS)

Were you morally in the wrong? Yes. (Arguably since morals change on a person to person basis)

Did you break the law? No. (In the US anyway; Theft is the removal of property, you didn't remove any property from their possession. Piracy only applies to illegal distributions.)
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Please see my above post in which I link proof. You can make a foreign account without ever lying, stating truthfuly what country you live in. Now, would you like to reword your analogy?

 
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An oversight, slightly reworded. Any other problems?

And I'm sympathetic before you think otherwise.

I just got irked by all of the random "It's like stealing or killing" posts. ~

 
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BlueofFLE said:
An oversight, slightly reworded.
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Thanks.

Also, the "fakian only" sign implies only people from Fake are allowed to partake of that section of the store, while XBL allows people from any country to make accounts for any country they wish. I think your analogy would be spot on if the sign said "free for fakian accounts only" but the store permitted you to make as many accounts in as many countries as you liked.

But you still think it is morally wrong to recieve the candy for free? You never misrepresented yourself and the authority you dealt with (the cashier) would likely be more knowledgeable about store policy than you the customer. As you point out, morality is fairly subjective,

 
I think that the marketplace was intended for specific areas only, but that the method of verification in place was as effective as checking which region of DVD you like to watch. Hence the cashier asking if you 'like' Fakian products.

Do you still think it needs changed?

As for morality..

To me it seems that if the candy patron knew that he wasn't supposed to be taking this candy then he was potentially going against his perceived morality.

And the CP likely knew he wasn't supposed to take it as he had to go out of his way to do so in a setting that he was familiar with and knew that such inconveniences meant he probably shouldn't. Though they did leave him a ladder so the temptation and ability to rationalize lie in part at the store owners feet.

 
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I wonder if people will think twice before going fully digital on next gen now. I don't think I will be purchasing any digital games on psn or xbox live except for maybe below $10.

 
I've always worried about losing all my digital stuff already when/if they shut down the servers.

I've only purchased DLC and XBLA games because you can't get them retail. Otherwise I always prefer disc because you have full control over it and it looks nice.

Question, are the licenses saved to the Xbox itself, or onto the HDD. If you get a RROD can you just install the drive to another system and play from there or are you SOL?

 
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Man, I created an account a few days ago to download Rayman.  Turned on my 360 today and saw that the account I created to download Rayman was banned.  My main account and console are fine.  Rayman was the only game I downloaded, and from what I'm reading here and other forums apparently one game is just getting an account ban, right?  Or is it still too soon for anyone to breath a sigh of relief? 

 
cancerman1120 said:
So what is the word on those who only downloaded content they paid for from other country accounts. I downloaded 4 games from my Hungarian account back in June and July. If I get banned it will suck but I do not play online much so I won't cry too much.
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I think this is a very pertinent question. I was console banned but my main account was not. I was told by someone who understands how MS works in banning issues(he hacks xbox 360 firmwares for a long time, I am not a client) and he helpfully said that there was no problem using my main account and my HDD(from the banned xbox) in a new xbox arcade....as long as I delete the stuff that got me banned.

As I deleted Rayman, Injustice, the arcades and the fake accounts I thought: what if all the games I bought from the Hungarian/Swiss Live sales somehow flag my console and my gamertag to the enforcement team again and I end up getting banned again? Unlike the free stuff, all of these were bought. But they were also shared with another account(with transfer licence).

Right now I'm a little put off of buying a new console and connect to Live because of that. Eventually I will, GTA Online is only a few days away and I can't wait to play it.

 
the Gooseler said:
I've always worried about losing all my digital stuff already when/if they shut down the servers.

I've only purchased DLC and XBLA games because you can't get them retail. Otherwise I always prefer disc because you have full control over it and it looks nice.

Question, are the licenses saved to the Xbox itself, or onto the HDD. If you get a RROD can you just install the drive to another system and play from there or are you SOL?
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the licenses are linked to the Xbox itself. if your xbox craps out and if XBL is down or if you get banned from XBL there will be no way to use your digital stuff.

 
the Gooseler said:
Interesting short read about how bans will work on the Xbone. Apparently if you get banned you will have access to your games. Why can't they do that with the 360?

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/17/microsoft-will-absolutely-not-block-xbox-one-games-if-your-live-account-is-banned-says-nelson/
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i though you would still have access to your games on 360 even if your console and all your accounts got banned. it is just that you won't be able to connect to XBL and play online.

that particular article was before the MS 180 i think. since Xbone was going to require 24 hours check-in for all your games - physical or digital - to work, and since MS loves to perm ban people, they wanted to give some assurance that you would still be able to play your games. i think.

 
htz said:
I wonder if people will think twice before going fully digital on next gen now. I don't think I will be purchasing any digital games on psn or xbox live except for maybe below $10.
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i canceled my Xbox One preorder because of this. (no i am not banned.)

will go Sony all the way.

 
mirai said:
i though you would still have access to your games on 360 even if your console and all your accounts got banned. it is just that you won't be able to connect to XBL and play online.

that particular article was before the MS 180 i think. since Xbone was going to require 24 hours check-in for all your games - physical or digital - to work, and since MS loves to perm ban people, they wanted to give some assurance that you would still be able to play your games. i think.
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you will but if your xbox with the licenses breaks you will no longer be able to reattain the content you bought.

 
i dont remember if i fully typed out my situation before but here goes.

i have 3 consoles,1 for me and 1 for each of my sons.

i dled all the games from morocco/oman/bosnia other than Arcania/Diabolical Pitch to my console and played Injustice/Rayman on my main account i got console banned on the 26th but my main account is fine but i deleted the foreign accounts so i assume they got banned.

console 2 i dled just Rayman and the console and the main account havent been banned,matter of fact my son has still been playing Rayman this whole week on his main account anyway LOL.

console 3 i tried to dl some of the oman games but they kept failing but i did dl the SR4 season pass to completion and its still not banned so this makes me wonder how theyre doing the process.

im really hoping i can make it out of this with only my console banned(doubtful) because if i lose 3 consoles theres no way im replacing them.

oh and i made seperate accounts for each xbox.

 
I'm sure this will cause a ruckus but hear me out:

everyone that's being banned should contact the Better Business Bureau and report this. What do you have to lose? Doesnt cost anything. I've contacted them before when a similar issue arrised and it was fixed. May not have been because of the BBB bit I think it helped. If enough people report it you may see some reverse bannings.

 
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