Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

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[quote name='TimboSliceGB']well for the gaming world lets hope both pull back :) i think everyone could live with a ten doller fee to play used games which would be pretty much online pass required for eveyr game. I doudt their will be no used game thing but something like that i would not mind.[/QUOTE]

So you go in and purchase a 5.99 used game and have to pay 10 dollars to use it. It's really the mandatory install that's messing things up. MS has to have a strict DRM or else they'll have piracy issues if people install the full game. I think the compromise would be that MS allows the for the game to install about 90% of the game and then the disc will serve as the key. (And provide the remaining 10% and executable files / key, so that the game can be launched.) MS has everything set up so now they need to make some major changes.
 
Slightly off topic, but is the official abbreviation really XBone? Microsoft didn't see the problem with that? Or were they hoping "XBoner" would become a positive meme?
 
[quote name='DNukem170']Slightly off topic, but is the official abbreviation really XBone? Microsoft didn't see the problem with that? Or were they hoping "XBoner" would become a positive meme?[/QUOTE]

No thats just what people are calling it. Personally I hate it and are people really saying EX-BONE? or is it CROSS-BONE or EX-BEE-ONE I dont fucking know.

I'm just calling it the new Xbox for now or if I type it I may type X1 just because it's short and doesn't sound as terrible as the other names.
 
xbox one makes since for what they are trying ot sell the system on. They trying to sell it as the ONE box you will need for all your entertainment needs
 
[quote name='Thomas96']So you go in and purchase a 5.99 used game and have to pay 10 dollars to use it. It's really the mandatory install that's messing things up. MS has to have a strict DRM or else they'll have piracy issues if people install the full game. I think the compromise would be that MS allows the for the game to install about 90% of the game and then the disc will serve as the key. (And provide the remaining 10% and executable files / key, so that the game can be launched.) MS has everything set up so now they need to make some major changes.[/QUOTE]

the best way for them to do it would be have it so you install the game and if you have a unused code you don't need the disc to play but if you don't have code you need disc to play and charge someone without the code charge them a price to play game online. Yes that would suck if you rent a game or use game from friend but no way you get around it
 
[quote name='Corvin']Movie ticket: $15
Blu-ray: $20
Video game: $60 (+ day one DLC revenue)

Sure there are more revenue streams, but it takes years to reach that $60 total that games start out at on day 1.

As pointed out though, every other product known to man can be resold. Software companies thinking they are above that is absurd. It's only because a company, GS, figured out a way to monopolize the used market. If used games were relegated to mom and pop stores, used rental stores, pawn shops and small shops like used CD shops we wouldn't be discussing this.



$40 games and frequent sales

Steam has shown people are willing to forgo the secondary market for a price. Unfortunately MS wants their cake (DRM) and to eat it too ($60 games). Something has to give.

MS & Sony could be ushering in the second video game crash with all this bs, conveniently on the thirtieth anniversary of the first crash.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't be surprised if the industry crashed again. I have been expecting it for years now. I'm just surprised it hasn't yet. If the DRM is as bad as it has been talked about I see the industry going to shit.

I would have no issue if Microsoft made it so that the install is an option so you don't have to swap discs out every time you want to play a different game, and put some sort of protection for them in case you traded the game. They have to have some way of keeping you from trading the game after installing it on the system. If they didn't then 6 people could go in and buy one game from 10 bucks each and never need the disc then trade it in and split the cash. However I'm sure the DRM that people are talking about does not work like that.
 
There is no way there can't be any kind of DRM if you require the game to install and play without the disc. I don't know about now, but this was how pc games were years ago, the game would install and it would check the cd in your drive to make sure you still had the original copy. I remember the days when it was PC games getting ported over to consoles, boy times have changed.
 
We need someone to run a petition stating if they change the way used games are handled we won't buy there systems. I hate computers but if they take away our used games I'm building a gaming computer and will not buy there products. Where in the world can you buy something and not be able to sell it if you don't want it anymore? They are stupid!
 
[quote name='karlgaming']We need someone to run a petition stating if they change the way used games are handled we won't buy there systems. I hate computers but if they take away our used games I'm building a gaming computer and will not buy there products. Where in the world can you buy something and not be able to sell it if you don't want it anymore? They are stupid![/QUOTE]

Wait, you're upset with consoles treating games like PC games, so you're going to build a PC and play only PC games to boycott that? What?
 
Steam, and other sources have cheaper games for the pc. Many years ago I hated playing games on the pc because you had to do a lot of tweaking to get them to work but I assume today its easier, more plug and play.

I buy new games at retail if I know I'm going to like them or if my kids like them, but I have lots of used games that I played like 20 minutes and hated.
 
[quote name='WolfmanASTN']Wait, you're upset with consoles treating games like PC games, so you're going to build a PC and play only PC games to boycott that? What?[/QUOTE]

Honestly, he won't be the only one... The one big advantage that consoles can really still cling to is no DRM and the ability to play used games. Take that away and, well, you might as well play on the PC as a console is just a low end/mid tier PC.
 
[quote name='DNukem170']Slightly off topic, but is the official abbreviation really XBone? Microsoft didn't see the problem with that? Or were they hoping "XBoner" would become a positive meme?[/QUOTE]

CAG is the only place I've seen XBone(which is stupid). I always see it as XO or X1.
 
Lots of podcasts have been calling it the Xbone albeit in a sarcastic manner.
 
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[quote name='Corvin']CAG is the only place I've seen XBone(which is stupid). I always see it as XO or X1.[/QUOTE]

Then apparently you haven't been frequenting most "mainstream" gaming sites, it's all over Gamespot, Destructoid and Neogaf. And for the record I'll use XB1, and I've never seen it abbreviated XO or X1...but I do like XBone, since they are being bone heads with all of the stupid decisions coming out about it at the present.
 
[quote name='Corvin']CAG is the only place I've seen XBone(which is stupid). I always see it as XO or X1.[/QUOTE]

I think I saw it first at Eurogamer, besides not knowing how to spell words like armor and honor ;), its a pretty good site even for people on the other side of the pound.

Anyhow, I actually get a chuckle every time I see abbreviated that way so I'm actually all for it... Its certainly more creative than M$ so it doesn't seem as juvenile. Besides XO is an Excursive Officer and X1 is something times itself (at least in my mind) so there really is no other choice. :D
 
Yeah twitter mainly.
http://business.financialpost.com/2013/05/24/why-xbone-has-stuck-for-microsofts-new-console/

03sqTMd.jpg
 
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Just got a Roku 3 and it's quickly become my #1 option for everything besides gaming. My 360 is so freaking slow compared to the Roku. If the X1 doesn't load a million times faster than the 360, it certainly won't be the "one" entertainment solution it wants to be.
 
[quote name='brandtron8000']Oh, so there already is DRM on your disc games that restricts it's use to just one system/account? I always wondered why nobody had ever hacked the 360 software and were able to pirate games and DLC online.
[/QUOTE]

*sigh* :applause:
Have you ever even PLAYED an Xbox 360 game...?
You have to have the game disk in the tray in order to play a game on the X360, even if you have it installed on your hard drive. If I give the game disk to my friend down the street, he can play it all he GD'ed well pleases, but I won't be able to because I don't have the game disk.
Think of it as the fully-digital equivalent of that system. I need to have a proper license (=game disk) in order to run a game on my system; if I sell the game install disk, nobody else will be able to play using that copy until I deactivate the license on my system.

Or, y'know, whatever. Sit around and be needlessly angry about something that will not impact your life in any way, shape or form. That's cool.
 
[quote name='sendme']
I would have no issue if Microsoft made it so that the install is an option so you don't have to swap discs out every time you want to play a different game, and put some sort of protection for them in case you traded the game. They have to have some way of keeping you from trading the game after installing it on the system. If they didn't then 6 people could go in and buy one game from 10 bucks each and never need the disc then trade it in and split the cash. However I'm sure the DRM that people are talking about does not work like that.[/QUOTE]

As others have noted, there definitely has to be some type of DRM like that if they're doing installs that don't require the disc to be in (like on the 360 currently), or otherwise copies would spread among friends like wildfire etc.

The problem is it seems like they decided to go farther since they had to put that in place, with the rumors of partnering with Amazon and/or Gamestop to make them the only place games can legally be traded/re-sold to give publishers a cut of used game sales.

Of course, it's all speculation and they may scrap that plan (if that was the plan) or come up with a more open way to transfer licenses to allow individual sales/trades etc. Time will tell.

I don't like DRM, but it's not something that really affects me as long as I still have some easy way to ditch games for a little money after beating them since I don't collect. I currently just sell games cheap on Amazon's marketplace (set it so it's the lowest current price), so I'm more focused on just ditching a disc than making money on it anyway--so odds are any trade in system wouldn't be too bad for me anyway.
 
[quote name='INMATEofARKHAM']Honestly, he won't be the only one... The one big advantage that consoles can really still cling to is no DRM and the ability to play used games. Take that away and, well, you might as well play on the PC as a console is just a low end/mid tier PC.[/QUOTE]

The main advantage to me is ease of hooking up to the home theater without looking crappy.

Consoles blend in the TV stand with everything else, a PC does not. With consoles I don't have to stash a wireless keyboard and mouse around to operate them--along with stashing controllers too as I hate keyboard/mouse controls. I don't have to worry about viruses and spyware on consoles.

So there are far more advantages to consoles to me than used games, which I almost never buy anyway. There's no way I'll ever get into PC games. I'd just stop gaming if console gaming ever got to a point I couldn't support it (i.e. everything $60, no way to trade/re-sell at all, few price drops etc.)--but I don't think we're at that point for me yet even if all the rumors are true.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']As others have noted, there definitely has to be some type of DRM like that if they're doing installs that don't require the disc to be in (like on the 360 currently), or otherwise copies would spread among friends like wildfire etc.[/QUOTE]

There's no reason it couldn't support both. You could play offline without any DRM if you have the disc in the system, or you could play without the disc if you use DRM. At most this would allow two people to use one copy (one offline, one online).

Even if they don't charge anything and used copies are freely sellable any DRM means they can deactivate any copy of the game at any time, or more likely stop supporting all of them in 15-20 years. At that point every single Xbox One game would become unplayable.
 
[quote name='htz']https://twitter.com/shahidkamal/status/338970573080231936
https://twitter.com/amboyes/status/339090189207101440
You got to admit, at least they are acknowledging us instead of what Microsoft did a few days ago. It only takes a minute to send a tweet, the worst that could happen is that they still follow MS's path or maybe those tweets are enough to persuade Sony to think differently. I don't mind the used drm as long as it is something more lenient(similar to online pass) than what MS is proposing.
Tons of progress being made in less than 24 hours since the movement began.

https://twitter.com/VirtuaMe/status/338757622167638016
^They locked off commenting on the xbox announcement video on youtube lol. It seems pretty clear MS doesn't even want to hear what we want to say.[/QUOTE]

Bump.

If you prefer the used game model, I implore you guys to send out a tweet and make your voices heard. Discussing it here on this site helps create some attention but nothing is as direct as making your voice heard. Social media lets us do that finally.its like voting, if you want something to change, speak up. otherwise don't complain when changes come and you didn't bother to say anything when you had a chance so now is that time. Tweeting takes just as long as making a post on here anyway.

I just sent my tweet a few minutes ago. I specifically waited for today instead of the weekend to make sure my tweets were noticed.
 
[quote name='PenguinMaster']There's no reason it couldn't support both. You could play offline without any DRM if you have the disc in the system, or you could play without the disc if you use DRM. At most this would allow two people to use one copy (one offline, one online).[/quote]

They don't want two people using one copy at the same time. And I think that's reasonable. Two people have never been able to use one console game at the same time since you always had to have the disc or cartridge etc. in the system.

Even if they don't charge anything and used copies are freely sellable any DRM means they can deactivate any copy of the game at any time, or more likely stop supporting all of them in 15-20 years. At that point every single Xbox One game would become unplayable.
Click to expand...

True. But I don't collect games or replay games (especially past generation games as I sell/trade in my old consoles), so it's moot for me. It does suck for more serious gamers, collectors and retro gamers though.
 
[quote name='JetEngineJesus']Or, y'know, whatever. Sit around and be needlessly angry about something that will not impact your life in any way, shape or form. That's cool.[/QUOTE]

I won't argue with you if you're fine having your rights as a consumer taken away from you. That's cool.

It saddens me deeply that there are people like you willing to just take it on the chin from big corporations. But, the twitter movement towards Sony about this has been very reassuring, and it feels like our voices can be heard.
 
Blockbuster does pre-orders on consoles? Must be different in the UK

Xbox One shatters pre-order records at Blockbuster

Xbox One doesn’t have a solid release date or a price yet, and still, a record number of pre-orders for the console have been reported by Blockbuster UK.

Xbox_One_Logo.jpg

According to the retailer’s head of games, speaking with MCV, the firm is “delighted by the huge number” of pre-orders received so far.
“At Blockbuster, we have a fantastic array of adrenaline-fueled console games for sale or rental,” said James Morton. “With Sony releasing the PS4 in the near future, the next few months are going to be an exciting time for our staff and customers at Blockbuster and we can’t wait to hear more details from both Sony and Microsoft at the E3 Expo next month.”
Xbox One was revealed last week and Microsoft has promised E3 will focus on gaming content, a subject which was barely skimmed during the console’s announcement.
 
Yeah It's also #1 on wishlists for the US or was at one point
In Germany+UK Amazon PS4 and XBox One have lead the charts in pre-orders... at 599 Euros
I'm waiting for Amazon US to start taking pre-orders. They could do a insanely high price and then reflect on the pre-order price guarantee. I don't want to stand in line to get one of these again, ever.
 
One thing is for sure, I'm not getting either console if they are scarce, went through enough of that in past generations, just don't care anymore.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']They don't want two people using one copy at the same time. And I think that's reasonable. Two people have never been able to use one console game at the same time since you always had to have the disc or cartridge etc. in the system. [/QUOTE]

With how the DRM works on Xbox 360 and PS3 you already can have the same game on two systems if you buy the digital version. The Xbox 360 version can be activated on one system and played on another system that is logged into the account that owns it. The PS3 version can be activated on two systems.

Considering with the method I proposed one system would have to left offline permanently (as soon as it is registered online the system without the disc would lose access) I doubt it would lower their overall sales by much. But it would allow people to play their games entirely without any DRM or internet connection required.
 
[quote name='PenguinMaster']With how the DRM works on Xbox 360 and PS3 you already can have the same game on two systems if you buy the digital version. The Xbox 360 version can be activated on one system and played on another system that is logged into the account that owns it. The PS3 version can be activated on two systems.

Considering with the method I proposed one system would have to left offline permanently (as soon as it is registered online the system without the disc would lose access) I doubt it would lower their overall sales by much. But it would allow people to play their games entirely without any DRM or internet connection required.[/QUOTE]

Fair points.

Personally, I have no issues with DRM that limits usage to one machine at a time--with the BIG caveat of there needing to be some easy way to transfer licenses to other users so the game can be sold, traded in etc. And not just to certain retailers.

If they can do it that way, then I have no issues with it as it wouldn't change a thing for me as I don't lend games, play at friends places etc. at all, but I do trade/sell games as I'm not a collector and I like defraying the costs some.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']just puzzles me why anyone would pre order a system before price is announced an release date.[/QUOTE]

Because some people are buying it regardless.
 
just thinking about it more an more i just don't understand why microsoft just can't keep it the way 360 is install the game but need disc to auth the game to start. If you are too lazy to change a disc to play a diff game you should not be playing video games. if publishers want something back from used games fine just make every single x1 game have a online pass you purchase just like you do now. Just seems like microsoft is fed up with jtagged 360's and see it has a problem but that could be solved if you make the system check into your servers every now and then.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']just thinking about it more an more i just don't understand why microsoft just can't keep it the way 360 is install the game but need disc to auth the game to start. If you are too lazy to change a disc to play a diff game you should not be playing video games. if publishers want something back from used games fine just make every single x1 game have a online pass you purchase just like you do now. Just seems like microsoft is fed up with jtagged 360's and see it has a problem but that could be solved if you make the system check into your servers every now and then.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Just require the disc be in, and leave it up to publishers to do online passes if they want a cut of used game sales. Let the publishers take the heat for that move.
 
[quote name='PenguinMaster']There's no reason it couldn't support both. You could play offline without any DRM if you have the disc in the system, or you could play without the disc if you use DRM. At most this would allow two people to use one copy (one offline, one online).
[/QUOTE]

That's how it was with Steam and my Company of Heroes copy. You could play with the disc if offline or be connected with no need for the disc.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']just puzzles me why anyone would pre order a system before price is announced an release date.[/QUOTE]


[quote name='TimboSliceGB']six days left i can't wait. I already took off work for that day just incase they open it up for preorder which i think is possible and can head to gamestop right away.[/QUOTE]

.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219'].[/QUOTE]

if microsoft would have opened it up for pre order they would have announced price and release date so stop being a dumb ass. dude really all you do is bash me left and right if you don't like what i say put me on ignore plz.
 
The price point of games might be moving up as well. $70 for games with no ability to trade them in. I'd like to see who in the right mind would support that.
 
[quote name='brandtron8000']I won't argue with you if you're fine having your rights as a consumer taken away from you. That's cool.

It saddens me deeply that there are people like you willing to just take it on the chin from big corporations. But, the twitter movement towards Sony about this has been very reassuring, and it feels like our voices can be heard.[/QUOTE]

Sure, I guess.

Oh, hey, just out of curiosity, what rights are being taken away from me...? As far as I can tell, a digital-license model wouldn't really be that different from the current DRM scheme. I could see it being kind of a pain if I wanted to play the same game on multiple consoles in my house, but given that I don't really need multiple XBones, that's kind of a moot point. Besides which, it's a pain to play the same on multiple consoles now anyway, if you want to use the same gamertag.

Seriously, I'm not trying to troll, here... Can someone please explain to me what the big deal is? Is everyone freaking out about the "license vs ownership" thing?
Personally, I'd be far more concerned with the "always-on Kinect on an internet-enabled device" than with any spurious notions of "draconian DRM"...
 
[quote name='Liquid Metal']The price point of games might be moving up as well. $70 for games with no ability to trade them in. I'd like to see who in the right mind would support that.[/QUOTE]

Been reading this also. So...DRM & a price increase?
 
$70 + DRM? :lol: MS is outta their damn minds.


Not that this affects me but it would be nice if multiple consoles in a single house could play the same game. i.e. a father and son could play CoD online with a single copy of a game on two separate consoles.
 
[quote name='JetEngineJesus']Sure, I guess.

Oh, hey, just out of curiosity, what rights are being taken away from me...? As far as I can tell, a digital-license model wouldn't really be that different from the current DRM scheme. I could see it being kind of a pain if I wanted to play the same game on multiple consoles in my house, but given that I don't really need multiple XBones, that's kind of a moot point. Besides which, it's a pain to play the same on multiple consoles now anyway, if you want to use the same gamertag.

Seriously, I'm not trying to troll, here... Can someone please explain to me what the big deal is? Is everyone freaking out about the "license vs ownership" thing?
Personally, I'd be far more concerned with the "always-on Kinect on an internet-enabled device" than with any spurious notions of "draconian DRM"...[/QUOTE]

1. It's more the rumors of used game fees, possibly only being able to trade games into Gamestop and Amazon (or some MS official online trade system) and no longer being able to buy and sell on Amazon Marketplace, Ebay, Craigslist etc. that's got people miffed.

2. For some it's just the principle of the thing as people (and with good reason) think they should own things they buy and keep full first sale rights etc. and thus are opposed to any form of DRM that keeps them from selling/trading the game themselves however they want (other than making copies of course).


And I hope games don't jump to $70. I'm not sure I can think of any games I'd pay $70 for these days regardless of DRM etc.
 
[quote name='JetEngineJesus']Sure, I guess.

Oh, hey, just out of curiosity, what rights are being taken away from me...? As far as I can tell, a digital-license model wouldn't really be that different from the current DRM scheme. I could see it being kind of a pain if I wanted to play the same game on multiple consoles in my house, but given that I don't really need multiple XBones, that's kind of a moot point. Besides which, it's a pain to play the same on multiple consoles now anyway, if you want to use the same gamertag.

Seriously, I'm not trying to troll, here... Can someone please explain to me what the big deal is? Is everyone freaking out about the "license vs ownership" thing?
Personally, I'd be far more concerned with the "always-on Kinect on an internet-enabled device" than with any spurious notions of "draconian DRM"...[/QUOTE]

I don't know how it works up in Canadia, but we have this thing called the First Sale Doctrine. A European court has even protected the right for the consumer to resell digital software. Even Cliffy B took some flak on twitter about it recently after tweeting that no one "owns" their games.

Here's what you're giving up: Borrowing a game from a friend or loaning one out to them, Renting a game, Buying and/or selling a used game through your own channels.
 
[quote name='brandtron8000']I don't know how it works up in Canadia, but we have this thing called the First Sale Doctrine. A European court has even protected the right for the consumer to resell digital software. Even Cliffy B took some flak on twitter about it recently after tweeting that no one "owns" their games.

Here's what you're giving up: Borrowing a game from a friend or loaning one out to them, Renting a game, Buying and/or selling a used game through your own channels.[/QUOTE]

First Sale Doctrine does not apply to licenses in the US. The European Justice Court's decision is not binding in the US. The European Justice Court ruled that "the previous owner must no longer be able to use the licensed software after the resale." Thus, this argument doesn't hold much water. However, the interwebs/message boards seem to be running wild with it.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']First Sale Doctrine does not apply to licenses in the US. The European Justice Court's decision is not binding in the US. The European Justice Court ruled that "the previous owner must no longer be able to use the licensed software after the resale." Thus, this argument doesn't hold much water. However, the interwebs/message boards seem to be running wild with it.[/QUOTE]

A console disc game is not a license key, just like a blu-ray/DVD, book or painting is not a license.

The games we have now can be bought and sold freely because of this, and that's why people get mad when MS wants to change that.
 
[quote name='strawyleader997']MS should lower the msrp for games to $40$20 MAX if you can't sell them on craigslist or ebay when you're done with them(due to stores having terrible trade in values).[/QUOTE]

Fixed that for you. $40 is still way too much money for a video game that becomes worthless as soon as you are finished with it.
 
[quote name='brandtron8000']A console disc game is not a license key, just like a blu-ray/DVD, book or painting is not a license.

The games we have now can be bought and sold freely because of this, and that's why people get mad when MS wants to change that.[/QUOTE]

Actually you are wrong. Shrinkwrap (EULA) licensing has applied to "digital" media such as games, Blu-ray, DVD and Cds for many years now. Essentially companies are granting you a license to play the game (regardless whether a code is present or not). You do not own the game hence Cliffy B's comment on twitter. It is not the same as a book or other tangible good.
 
[quote name='Javery']Fixed that for you. $40 is still way too much money for a video game that becomes worthless as soon as you are finished with it.[/QUOTE]

I'd buy fewer games at $40 with no re-sale ability, but I'd still find plenty worth that.

I mean a 10-20 hour game, much less a 40+ one, isn't a bad deal for $40 when Movie tickets at the theater I go to range from $12 in the evening for 2d, to $18.50 for Imax 3D for a couple hours of entertainment. And even with Blurays and DVDs I have plenty over the years I've paid $20-30 for and are lucky to ever get rewatched these days.
 
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