Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Out Now on PS3 & PS4 - 4/11: PS3-to-PS4 Transfer Live!

Deader2818 said:
Well considering the story picks up were 2.0 leaves off it wouldn't make sense to be able to get there.
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It definitely seems like there's a lot more padding than there needs to be. Like the Level 50 quests for "Do the 15 & 25 super ez guildhests again".

I think I'm down to 65 quests to go.

 
Finally got the funds to get a nice keyboard can't wait to try out Keyboard and mouse.It seems a bit harder to use but with the state of consoles I might be slowly collecting parts for my dream PC.

 
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Deader2818 said:
I enjoy it. Need to get used to using it. Plus everything new we get you have to use WM to use so kinda need to get used to it.
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Been trying it @60 since this morning, only way it will increase your damage is if you don't move at all(dummy parse)

But what relevant content will let you stay idle? None.

So basically we're left with a nerfed barrage, but at least we can use Sidewinder outside of WM, not sure if its a bug or a tooltip error.

Auto attacks were around 22-25% of our damage.

If feels nice, but idc about how fun it is, I care if its going to to do more damage, which its not unless you enjoy fighting a dummy.

 
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Im not 60 yet so not really sure but ive been reading different. Maybe you just need to get better at timing how to move and dps. Mages are able to do it and our cast time is alot lower than there.

 
oh ur not 60 yet, makes sense. 

And its been tested on a dummy(idle), it barely adds any dps. And like I said, what fight will let you stay idle? None. 

WM is wack, you will see, casters are okay since their attacks hit harder(blm) and new smn dot ticks are like 900, to make WM worth it you would have to be idle 99% of the time and you will only get a small amount of extra dps. People underestimate how much damage our auto attacks did, its a little over 20% of our damage that and the barrage nerf is going to hit brds pretty hard plus theres a current BL bug which makes u unable to attack until its off CD. 

Try doing a relevant fight like, T13 in WM then do it w/o it you will see how bad it is. 

 
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Eh ill wait to try it myself. People were against it before it even came out so I think alot of people just resist change. Wasnt Det changed to affect auto attacks anyways?

Isnt t13 capped at 50 anyways? I think id rather see what new content raids are like before seeing what its going to be line.

Also you know sidewinder is going to get fixed.

 
Deader2818 said:
Eh ill wait to try it myself. People were against it before it even came out so I think alot of people just resist change. Wasnt Det changed to affect auto attacks anyways?

Isnt t13 capped at 50 anyways? I think id rather see what new content raids are like before seeing what its going to be line.

Also you know sidewinder is going to get fixed.
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Hopefully its just a tooltip error, so they will fix it but keep sidewinder off WM.

Same thing happened with Shadow Fang, said it was a flank move but it wasnt, tool tip errors happen.

 
Yeah, WM has had me raging super hard when my casts get interrupted or I have to stutter-step and the cast doesn't get off properly.  I assumed the DET nerf was to push bards into using WM even more, but if you're parsing at almost equal (which is what every bard was already saying would happen because our auto-attacks did 20-25% of our dps) then there's absolutely no reason to use it.  I mean in dungeons it's ok because you're standing there a ton, but as soon as we see real raids that will change in a heartbeat.  I just can't believe SE did this, like seriously can't believe they would design our entire moveset around ONE fuckING IDEA and it's so half-assed it doesn't even buff our damage.

To top it off, people are saying MCH is underperforming even with wildfire being broken on ACT and generally too RNG based to be much fun.  It's the redheaded stepchild of this expansion it seems and in dire need of buffs.  This is why you do a public test realm, SE, so people can tell you how shit an idea is before subjecting us to a live beta test.

You know the sad thing is after playing with WM and having such flashy moves I reallly, really want to love it but the cost of mobility going forward is just going to be too great for little to no gain.  They fucked up on this one and owe bards an apology and some rebalancing.  My DRG friend is pretty upset with what they did with his class too so I'm of the opinion there's not a lot of happy campers this expansion due to poor design decisions.  New abilities should aid in making a class feel more powerful, not fundamentally change the entire class and require the player to completely change everything.  I'm going to take off WM tonight and just reacquaint myself with the class I love and stop worrying about marginal dps gains because quite frankly, if I can't have fun playing this game anymore then fuck SE and FFXIV: I quit.

 
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Oh, and the pacification bug can go fuck itself; something about bloodletter/RoD is making it so bards can't attack until the cooldown has reset.  Not sure if it's tied to WM yet or not but every bard should have experienced this at least once by now if you've dungeoned.  I haven't noticed it outside of dungeons yet, but for sure it happens maybe 1 in 3 runs for me and just shits on our dps.  I doubt SE wasn't aware of this bug but just chose to go live with it to meet the launch date.  This shit won't fly if it's still in come Alexander though. . .

 
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Its still early access calm down lol. Have you never played an mmo before?

There will be bugs and they will be fixed. There is maintenance tonight so im sure there will be fixes. Also we know there will rebalance things if need be. There isn't even an end game yet to see how new fights play out. You all just sound resistant to change.
 
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Deader2818 said:
Its still early access calm down lol. Have you never played an mmo before?

There will be bugs and they will be fixed. There is maintenance tonight so im sure there will be fixes. Also we know there will rebalance things if need be. There isn't even an end game yet to see how new fights play out. You all just sound resistant to change.
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Thats the scary part, most BRD's are bad and they don't care/wont notice the low DPS their doing and sadly they are the vocal majority, these are the people who complain in armies that are usually the ones you see swarming the forums in the thousands. But they usually complain about shit like "why can't I upgrade my gear? why do I have to do coil to get my upgrades and weapon?" and the fact that WM is actually fun to use we won't see a lot of complaining since 95% of players on FF14 couldn't care less if their DPS was less than a healers.

BRD might be screwed here, I see more complaints about MCH(rightfully so) and DRG which is fine dps wise but they are salty about having more buttons to fit in their rotation.

I'm hoping our Japanese friends are being vocal since 20% of their community clear content as oppose to NA/EU which is only about 1%.

For them to make WM worth playing in a raid setiting they will probably need to make WM instant(like cleric). Iron Jaw and Emp Arrow oGCD like BL and maybe raise the bonus to 25% to make up for the AA loss alone.

They have a lot of work to do to make WM viable and not just "for fun"

 
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My proposition is they just throw WM out the window and give us something else.  I'd say keep Emp arrow as a cast to be used with barrage and Iron Jaw instant with a higher TP cost.  Reason you don't want Emp arrow off GCD is because it's not a weaponskill at that point IIRC.  Sidewinder I feel like could be a more powerful tool for us if SE weren't such shitlords.  My idea for it would work like Soul Swap for locks in WoW: 60s cooldown, transfers your existing DoT(s) to the target OR nukes the target.  This would make the skill more interesting and truly worthy of being our final skill other than a one minute nuke.

On a side note, I've been toying with Warden's a bit and it honestly feels useless so far as an esuna shield.  All the boss moves I've tried it against it just does nothing and since it's a 3s cast, you need to know beforehand when something is coming so in learning a fight, I feel like they just put more pressure on the bard to pre-bubble and borderline play a healer role.  As a support class, I'm not sure how I feel about this: on the one hand we're becoming even more invaluable to a core group, but on the other they're putting very real pressure on a DPS class to prevent a wipe when that has never been our role before.

This is one of those cases of trying to do too much and with how straining it is just to play with WM now, the class is becoming less and less fun and more of a chore to play.  Imagine the scenario of trying to dodge mechanics while stutter-stepping to maintain high dps, meanwhile the mages/melee dps are asking for foes, mages, and paeon. . .oh shit, tank buster is coming gotta get warden's up. . .shit dots about to fall off, gotta iron jaw off quick. . . fuck, tether just spawned on me need to drop WM so I can break chains. . .and this is hour five of alex attempts and you're just DRAINED.  Pardon me, but as a support role I need a moment to fucking BREATHE SE.

I just feel like every class is pretty well defined by their abilities and yet bard is losing identity by being pulled in so many different directions.  What's next for the job, tanking abilities?

 
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The lobby servers have really been choked the past couple of days. It takes forever to log in. I'd be upset about it if the new title screen music wasn't so badass.

 
I doubt Japanese devs would have a problem translating their own language. 

@Jo

Seems like theres a lot of complaints about BRD numbers from theorycrafters on the Japanese communty, so theres still hope. 

Problem with our side is majority of players don't care about min max since they will not be pushing to clear content when they are under geared(people who want gear handed to them), but with a more vocal majority over on the Japanese side I think the devs will take a better look at it. 

Theres actually a thread on reddit atm, seems like people are starting to complain since they just got to 60.

 
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Deader2818 said:
Perhaps its just time you find another job to main then.
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*game

Wonderful post that will never be seen by a dev or anyone at SE that gives a shit. Tonight I turned off WM, removed it and any abilities that require it from my bars and. . .I felt so liberated. I'm not even exaggerating here, I legitimately felt as if a burden was lifted and I was having fun again. Wow SE fucked this one up bad. . .

And yeah, I've been seeing the numbers come back from players offering up things like "increase of 10 dps. . ."; it's really bad. Sidewinder should stay off the WM list if they have any decency. But they deserve every shred of shit they get from the community for not valuing a PTR and customer feedback. Granted I don't want them to buff WM, I want it gone. Period. If I get kicked from my raid group or feel forced to use WM at all, then I'm just done.

 
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Jodou said:
*game

Wonderful post that will never be seen by a dev or anyone at SE that gives a shit. Tonight I turned off WM, removed it and any abilities that require it from my bars and. . .I felt so liberated. I'm not even exaggerating here, I legitimately felt as if a burden was lifted and I was having fun again. Wow SE fucked this one up bad. . .

And yeah, I've been seeing the numbers come back from players offering up things like "increase of 10 dps. . ."; it's really bad. Sidewinder should stay off the WM list if they have any decency. But they deserve every shred of shit they get from the community for not valuing a PTR and customer feedback. Granted I don't want them to buff WM, I want it gone. Period. If I get kicked from my raid group or feel forced to use WM at all, then I'm just done.
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Cool. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

 
I edited it, sorry if it offended some people(did not know it was a racist term)

Also, Ravana Ex is fun.

 
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Jodou said:
*game

Wonderful post that will never be seen by a dev or anyone at SE that gives a shit. Tonight I turned off WM, removed it and any abilities that require it from my bars and. . .I felt so liberated. I'm not even exaggerating here, I legitimately felt as if a burden was lifted and I was having fun again. Wow SE fucked this one up bad. . .

And yeah, I've been seeing the numbers come back from players offering up things like "increase of 10 dps. . ."; it's really bad. Sidewinder should stay off the WM list if they have any decency. But they deserve every shred of shit they get from the community for not valuing a PTR and customer feedback. Granted I don't want them to buff WM, I want it gone. Period. If I get kicked from my raid group or feel forced to use WM at all, then I'm just done.
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WM would be okay if they tweaked it, make it like cleric and increase the bonus to make it worth on dps to stance dance. Emp Arrow(with barrage + low CD) and Iron Jaw is too good to not use, it just needs tweaking.

If they made it like cleric then it would be less of a hit switching back and forth when its safe to be idle/move for mechanics.

20% increase when in WM but no auto attacks which is 25% of our damage if played right(strafing).

uJCveKg.jpg


 
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Floodgates are officially open... Aether is going to be hit even harder than it has been in early access :lol:. In a sense it's great to see the game getting hammered by so many people trying to play, but at the same time I'd like to be able to log in without having to try 20 times.
 
ChalupaBatman said:
WM would be okay if they tweaked it, make it like cleric and increase the bonus to make it worth on dps to stance dance. Emp Arrow(with barrage + low CD) and Iron Jaw is too good to not use, it just needs tweaking.

If they made it like cleric then it would be less of a hit switching back and forth when its safe to be idle/move for mechanics.

20% increase when in WM but no auto attacks which is 25% of our damage if played right(strafing).
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DPS is not the issue here lol, it's the complete change in playstyle no bard wants after two years of enjoying the class the way it is. We simply need a different song, period. One person suggested we get an HP regen song and give cast times to emp arrow, which I'd be totally cool with even if a song like that would seem less than useful. No amount of buffing or changing WM around would be sufficient: I DON'T WANT TO CAST 95% OF MY ABILITIES. Even stopping to cast a song mid-combat feels bad, but that's the role of support so I took it in stride because the class is otherwise mobile and fast-paced.

This expansion is trying to strip bards of their identity and we're not having it. SE needs to be sent a clear message that a majority of us do not want WM and I hope to god they're tracking metrics on how many of us are using it right now because with the information coming out now I'd suspect all 60 bards are not using it.

 
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Ryuukishi said:
Floodgates are officially open... Aether is going to be hit even harder than it has been in early access :lol:. In a sense it's great to see the game getting hammered by so many people trying to play, but at the same time I'd like to be able to log in without having to try 20 times.
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Shit, I didn't even think about this haha. Logged out this morning and I will be super pissed if I can't get on tonight lol. FYI, you can say FU to SE's auto-logout BS if you simply go into crafting stance, as in enter the crafting menu and start crafting. When you get back from AFK, just quit out and you lose nothing. The game tries to log you out every 30 mins you're afk but errors saying you can't do that while crafting haha. Silly Japanese plebs. :p

 
Haha, found this gem in the comments of that reddit post:


SE: "See guys, Bards can be real DPS now, we gave you this DPS stance!"

Us: "But.... it lowers our damage a lot of the time and is really awkward."

SE: "To balance out this increase in DPS, we have lowered your base DPS."

It's soooooo sad yet 100% accurate.
 
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Jodou said:
Haha, found this gem in the comments of that reddit post:



SE: "See guys, Bards can be real DPS now, we gave you this DPS stance!"

Us: "But.... it lowers our damage a lot of the time and is really awkward."

SE: "To balance out this increase in DPS, we have lowered your base DPS."

It's soooooo sad yet 100% accurate.
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Thats what I meant, its a dps loss in 99.99% of content, its only good on the opener or on a dummy.

If they keep WM, then raise the dps increase and make it instant stance toggle like cleric, i prefer they remove it all together and just give us IJ and EA like they did with SW but I doubt they will change it, which sucks but whatever, at least make it worth while to be in WM.

I just hope its tweaked/reworked before Alex.

 
ChalupaBatman said:
Thats what I meant, its a dps loss in 99.99% of content, its only good on the opener or on a dummy.

If they keep WM, then raise the dps increase and make it instant stance toggle like cleric, i prefer they remove it all together and just give us IJ and EA like they did with SW but I doubt they will change it, which sucks but whatever, at least make it worth while to be in WM.

I just hope its tweaked/reworked before Alex.
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Oh, I was speaking more to the last sentence in their post: they did lower our base dps out of WM with the DET nerf. Just the way that person deadpanned it in his post had me rolling. :rofl:

To me they're sending a conflicting message. On the one hand, they're giving us a flashy move and a QOL ability while in WM so it would stand to reason this is the way they intend bard to be going forward. On the other hand, as soon as you downrank to do old content this playstyle is removed altogether thus giving the impression that this stance is truly optional because bard at times won't have the option to use it (and this is more speaking to when mechanics don't allow it; doesn't make sense to use it). The other problem is the stance is far too cumbersome currently and a dps loss to use, which is more than likely a balance issue. To top it off, the official word from SE is that it's meant for periods of idleness so it was clearly designed for stance dancing.

Why then, would we ever use it, when it completely breaks the flow of combat with its lower damage and clunky implementation? This just screams of poor design and an idea gone horribly wrong that could have benefitted from a PTR. There's no doubt in my mind now, especially with the Japanese community screaming at them, that this will be redesigned in the future. My advice to any bard right now is simply don't use it except for trash packs. If you like the playstyle, great but I'd highly recommend you check out SMN instead because they're quickly becoming a powerhouse after the buffs they received this patch and BLM getting ripped apart.

 
Ryuukishi said:
Actually I had no trouble logging in this evening at all. Sunday and Monday seemed worse.
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Oh yeah, I got in first try so clearly maintenance helped whatever they did. Very smooth launch for me at least, major props to them especially since I had zero crashes and just one disconnect in Aery all weekend.

 
Bards are asking that WM be changed to a song that works identical to MM hunters in wow with Sniper Training.  Basically standing still for X seconds builds up to 3 stacks increasing your damage multiplier by 10% each.  I feel this would be a totally fair compromise since it doesn't interfere with mobility but encourages you to stand still.  You might want to flip it off whenever there's too many mechanics going on but removing the cast timers would be the goal of this change.  I'd whole-heartedly support this because it would be something I'd absolutely like to play around with.

 
Jodou said:
Bards are asking that WM be changed to a song that works identical to MM hunters in wow with Sniper Training. Basically standing still for X seconds builds up to 3 stacks increasing your damage multiplier by 10% each. I feel this would be a totally fair compromise since it doesn't interfere with mobility but encourages you to stand still. You might want to flip it off whenever there's too many mechanics going on but removing the cast timers would be the goal of this change. I'd whole-heartedly support this because it would be something I'd absolutely like to play around with.
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I never played WoW but I've heard most MMO's are inspired by it so I'm sure it did a lot of things right.

Pretty sure the new FF14 Token system is from WoW?

 
ChalupaBatman said:
I never played WoW but I've heard most MMO's are inspired by it so I'm sure it did a lot of things right.

Pretty sure the new FF14 Token system is from WoW?
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Oh you'd be shocked just how much FFXIV 'borrows' from WoW, but yes the tokens are something WoW has done for a long time now; probably 8+ years. I would say that the worst thing they've copied from WoW was dailies but this game doesn't go above and beyond the level of full retard WoW did with dailies. MoP was quite literally dailies for months as the only form of content. You'd log in, do like 3948753957 dailies and wait for raid time. That was it. All while the fucksticks at Blizzard defended dailies as content despite people hating every aspect of it. I left that game amid that nonsense because all FFXIV had to do was show me a game capable of having fun content again: hint, wasn't hard.

 
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A post from our unofficial Bard rep (no, not Mr. Happy; he's bad) that pretty much reiterates the same conclusions raiding bards have come to.  Too much movement in a fight reduces WM to a dps loss but using it in our opener is fine (unless there's early movement such as RAV EX).  I don't agree with either of his fixes, they solve nothing.

One thing that has been overlooked by many bards is that we can now use RoD for free and will help with meeting ACC caps or free up stat allocation.  During trash pulls I already spam this on BL procs in between quick nocks, which helps the WHM doing holy/aero 3 spam.  I really like this change; it's about the only thing they did right in terms of mixing things up for the class, although wide volley is now 100% useless.

Something else semi-related to bards is the findings of the MCH community, in particular how Gauss Barrel works with wildfire.  Players have parsed and discovered that due to the loss of auto-attacks (GB == WM) wildfire is actually losing damage over time thanks to the smaller buildup of attacks and the fact that wildfire damage is mitigated twice (once upon calculation of damage done to build wildfire and secondly on the use of wildfire).  We're not talking small margins either: the difference between using GB full duration in a fight and opener only is at times 80 dps on a dummy (the example I saw was 760~ with GB vs 840~ without; yes I know ACT is broken for wildfire, this was manual calculation).  This to me says that SE did absolutely no testing on these abilities in terms of balancing or it would have been instantly caught by anyone with half a brain.  Furthermore, this illustrates that the longer a fight progresses, the more auto-attacks overtake any benefit from GB/WM.  Every step you take under these effects are a dps loss so it's impossible to put a finite % buff on the skill the way this is implemented to cleanly cover the loss.  It is too variable to the length and mechanics of any given fight.

This is just a can of worms they've created for themselves and it will never be properly implemented the way they intended.  If I were SE, I'd dump these stances and just work on providing us with abilities that compliment the jobs, rather than completely change them.

 
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