Limited Run Games Thread - We only promise our NES games will work, not your console

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Equippt said:
Okay, anyone with more information jump in here if you wish, but I believe LRG has said in the past that their contracts forbid them from reprinting any of their releases. The developers, however, are free to use any other publishers they wish to reprint a game, which is exactly what happened with Soldner. So if you want any particular title to get a reprint, you're in the wrong forum! Instead, let the devs know there's more demand out there. It's not like LRG is the only game in town anymore. Fangamer, 505, SRG...
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Exactly, that is why I said if this guy has been reading LRG post from the start, he would be leveling his issues at the developers and their twitter or email accounts. As a reprint is outside of LRG control, if they wanted to do it or not. But since they have said already, they will not, it's the same dead horse.

Hell, recently, before LRG has even released some of their titles, the publishers are already making more copies, which LRG then has to try and gauge interest based on more options in the market. Yet another problem for them, as the developers are only concerned with themselves, and if LRG goes bust producing a title they thought would be the only one at least from the start, it's more problems for them that now need to be accounted for.

 
csbaker-az said:
Oh it sucks. But to say they aren't trying to do anything about it is dishonest.
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They are trying to improve things but nothing has proved to be substantially effective. It's just silly to me when an obvious solution in interest-gauged reprints are staring them right in the face.

 
chrislaustin said:
Exactly, that is why I said if this guy has been reading LRG post from the start, he would be leveling his issues at the developers and their twitter or email accounts. As a reprint is outside of LRG control, if they wanted to do it or not. But since they have said already, they will not, it's the same dead horse.

Hell, recently, before LRG has even released some of their titles, the publishers are already making more copies, which LRG then has to try and gauge interest based on more options in the market. Yet another problem for them, as the developers are only concerned with themselves, and if LRG goes bust producing a title they thought would be the only one at least from the start, it's more problems for them that now need to be accounted for.
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LRG are the ones who wrote those contracts with the clause, they could work out a new ones. No sane developer is going to say no to more copies of their game being sold.

bradbo said:
Dead horse meet stick.
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Not my fault people keep repeating the same arguments I've proven ineffective time and time again.

 
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chrislaustin said:
Exactly, that is why I said if this guy has been reading LRG post from the start, he would be leveling his issues at the developers and their twitter or email accounts. As a reprint is outside of LRG control, if they wanted to do it or not. But since they have said already, they will not, it's the same dead horse.

Hell, recently, before LRG has even released some of their titles, the publishers are already making more copies, which LRG then has to try and gauge interest based on more options in the market. Yet another problem for them, as the developers are only concerned with themselves, and if LRG goes bust producing a title they thought would be the only one at least from the start, it's more problems for them that now need to be accounted for.
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With Ys I hope they have figured out that they have no competition. NA/USA/ESRB/whatever you want to call it releases will always sell.

Their target audience views ASIA and PEGI releases as import and last resort. NA prints are in far more demand and would sell out their original allotment just as fast.

Play Asia releasing Ys or Ghost Blade "out from under" LRG impacts nothing. Many see ASIA releases less than ideal as just in case place holders similar to GameStop preorders that are always cancelled.

I beg they take heed of this and don't chop the Ys quantities because of PA. Its going to sell no matter how many they make it or who else releases it as another region.

Put a US release Ys and a PEGI or Asia release side by side same cover art and all and the US release will unanimously be the one everyone wants. And if someone is doing a UK/PAL collection its still not lost sales on LRG because UK/PAL collector see LRG the same way I see PA: optional imports for fun not mandatory for full set.

I envy the UK/PAL collectors who aren't having to stay glued to LRGs ass the last couple months.

 
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frolow said:
They are trying to improve things but nothing has proved to be substantially effective. It's just silly to me when an obvious solution in interest-gauged reprints are staring them right in the face.
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LRG is never going to do reprints. How is it possible that you can't get that through your head? The people who COULD do reprints are the developers themselves, and those should be the target for your suggestions (as mentioned by many others here). Why is it so hard for you to understand that?
 
chimpmeister said:
LRG is never going to do reprints. How is it possible that you can't get that through your head? The people who COULD do reprints are the developers themselves, and those should be the target for your suggestions (as mentioned by many others here). Why is it so hard for you to understand that?
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Lol I see discussing LRG problems and solutions like gun rights politics.

Discussing sensible gun regulation with gun enthusiasts is impossible unless you take banning anything off the table as ever being a solution. As long as I can buy whatever I want whenever I want I can be pretty lenient on the implementation. But the moment you insist on taking things away from me forever, including things I haven't bought yet, you can go fuck yourself I'm not talking to you.

Likewise the sooner you get over the fact that LRG cannot and will not do reprints, the sooner you can recognize constructive feedback and actual improvements they may be willing to try.

 
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chimpmeister said:
LRG is never going to do reprints. How is it possible that you can't get that through your head? The people who COULD do reprints are the developers themselves, and those should be the target for your suggestions (as mentioned by many others here). Why is it so hard for you to understand that?
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Seriously don't get why this has been going on for the last 3-4 pages. Like, at some point people need to let it go but we're just going in some god damn circles. For fucks sake, can't we get some mods in this thread?

 
frolow said:
LRG are the ones who wrote those contracts with the clause, they could work out a new ones. No sane developer is going to say no to more copies of their game being sold.
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Once again, where have you been reading, as Josh has stated many, many times how most of the developers have opted for less qty then we actually got, as he would have to really push to get more made.

And on top of that, most of the funds being made for the developers are peanuts compared to them selling titles digitally, and for the record, why would a publisher like Wayforward who has released many of their own games at retail need LRG at all? The could have made Shantae and more if they wanted to, they didn't, so LRG took it up and made it happen. Shantae on the 3DS is in huge supply at retail, and often sells for a discount, as there are more copies than demand. Which is what normally happens at retail for most titles.

If any of these developers gave a damn about making money in the physical arena, they would have already been selling their own titles in that fashion. Once again, your thoughts and arguments really just don't make any sense, as your blaming the one part of the equation that can't change, instead of the numerous ones that can.

Alright, enough of this, I've actually got work to do, so I can earn my meager pennies online, so hopefully someone else will pick up the torch, or just nuke the thread from orbit, as it needs it at this point and then some. OverNout!

 
chimpmeister said:
LRG is never going to do reprints. How is it possible that you can't get that through your head? The people who COULD do reprints are the developers themselves, and those should be the target for your suggestions (as mentioned by many others here). Why is it so hard for you to understand that?
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Because LRG is leaving money on the table by not doing them. Developers need a push to actually do physical releases of their games in the first place, and LRG serves to be that push. They're the ones who reach out to developers to get these deals done. The same would apply to reprints. If LRG approached a developer, asking if they wanted to do a reprint of their game, the developer would be stupid to say no because. It's more copies of their game being sold. LRG is also one of the few companies that have successfully done this sort of thing. Developers have confidence in LRG and would be more inclined to work with them versus a foreign company that might not necessarily have a proven track record.

I haven't "gotten it through my head" because it's a clear and obvious solution and nobody has proven otherwise.

 
csbaker-az said:
Likewise the sooner you get over the fact that LRG cannot and will not do reprints, the sooner you can recognize actual improvements they may be willing to try.
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This mentality is retarded frankly. You're so locked in this mindset that any change is "impossible" when it clearly isn't. Saying they "cannot" do reprints is outright false when it's well within their ability to do them.

Try actually bringing up a point next time instead of dismissively saying something is impossible with no substance.

 
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frolow said:
This mentality is retarded frankly. You're so locked in this mindset that any change is "impossible" when it clearly isn't. Saying they "cannot" do reprints is outright false when it's well within their ability to do them.

Try actually bringing up a point next time instead of dismissively saying something is impossible with no substance.
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Well my analogy, arguing gun rights with me is impossible as long as you continue to use bans as your only solution. Or any solution.

LRGs trigger word is reprints, it's no different. If you get hung up on reprints and nothing else you're just wasting time. This is a foundation pillar of their business in their mission statement. It's who they are.

Some things are just regarded as non negotiable and a core part of another party's philosophy. If you don't recognize and respect that and drop it instead of trying to change the other party's root philosophy and identity you'll get nowhere. Then you won't be able to recognize and discuss things that *are* negotiable.

Failing to recognize there are some things you can't change and moving on instead of wasting your energy getting hung up on the 1 thing your can't change instead of the 1000 things you can is why most people fail in life constantly.

Ironically this is another manifestation of people only wanting something they can't have.

 
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chrislaustin said:
Two of the games released so far are from them directly as the developers
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Psst, three.

YawnAmuroYawn said:
This is a good suggestion. I have been supporting LRG picking up every title except breach and clear. I plan to continue to buy every title as I am obsessive. However i am worried there is a title i dont get simply because of bots, scalpers, resellers and the related drama in here. If that happens thats going to be extremely disappointing. And im probably just going to be done with lrg for yhr most part if that were to occur. This is all becoming very similar to Nintendo's BS
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I bought B&C too. I missed out early with Soldner X and people buying them before I was able to, so I just pick and choose now. But so what if I don't buy one? If they sell out, they have the same support whether it's from me or not.

 
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(Hey! Look over there!)

Anyone care to speculate on their next RPG release coming along with Ys? Time for Dragon Fantasy I, perhaps? Or maybe a dark horse title like I Am Setsuna?

Setsuna doesn't seem super likely, but I wouldn't call it impossible, either. Squenix supposedly had plans for a physical Vita release of their own that got canned, so most of the work might already be done on their end. Who knows?
 
chrislaustin said:
Once again, where have you been reading, as Josh has stated many, many times how most of the developers have opted for less qty then we actually got, as he would have to really push to get more made.
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Probably a result of lack of confidence. Most of the time this is a developer's first experience working with LRG, it makes sense they'd want to era on the side of caution. I'd bet developers would be more confident in a reprint after already having successfully done deals in the past

And on top of that, most of the funds being made for the developers are peanuts compared to them selling titles digitally,
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If the profit margin is so minuscule companies wouldn't agree to doing physical runs with LRG in the first place. This is especially relevant for smaller games like Pang Adventures, where 4,500 additional copies was probably huge for the devs.

and for the record, why would a publisher like Wayforward who has released many of their own games at retail need LRG at all? The could have made Shantae and more if they wanted to, they didn't, so LRG took it up and made it happen. Shantae on the 3DS is in huge supply at retail, and often sells for a discount, as there are more copies than demand. Which is what normally happens at retail for most titles.
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Because they didn't think a proper retail run for PS4 ports of old Shantae games would've been profitable, but a smaller release with LRG would be fine. Maybe they learned from their 3DS release, I'm not sure.

bradbo said:
https://limitedrungames.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/22000024455-reprints

Fake news?
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Already said multiple times they should re-work contracts.

csbaker-az said:
Well my analogy, arguing gun rights with me is impossible as long as you continue to use bans as your only solution. Or any solution.

LRGs trigger word is reprints, it's no different. If you get hung up on reprints and nothing else you're just wasting time. This is a foundation pillar of their business in their mission statement. It's who they are.

Some things are just regarded as non negotiable and a core part of another party's philosophy. If you don't recognize and respect that and drop it instead of trying to change the other party's root philosophy, you'll get nowhere. Then you won't be able to recognize and discuss things that *are* negotiable.

Failing to recognize there are some things you can't change and wasting your energy getting hung up on the 1 thing your can't change instead of the 1000 things you can is why most people fail in life constantly.

Ironically this is another manifestation of people only wanting something they can't have.
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I suppose you're right. If the inherent idea of reprints triggers people this hard, even after being proven wrong on multiple occasions, it's a moot point. I can only hope the LRG guys actually read my suggestions and take them into consideration.

 
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bradbo said:
Then there's nothing left to say. We're not n a fantasy land when we ignore reality.
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I'm not the one who's been proven wrong multiple times here. I've successfully defended every benefit to reprints, nobody have provided an argument that refutes them.

Perhaps consult this next you try to debate:

830e402d70.jpg


 
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Equippt said:
(Hey! Look over there!)

Anyone care to speculate on their next RPG release coming along with Ys? Time for Dragon Fantasy I, perhaps? Or maybe a dark horse title like I Am Setsuna?

Setsuna doesn't seem super likely, but I wouldn't call it impossible, either. Squenix supposedly had plans for a physical Vita release of their own that got canned, so most of the work might already be done on their end. Who knows?
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They said it would be something Japanesewe would be excited about
 
Equippt said:
(Hey! Look over there!)

Anyone care to speculate on their next RPG release coming along with Ys? Time for Dragon Fantasy I, perhaps? Or maybe a dark horse title like I Am Setsuna?

Setsuna doesn't seem super likely, but I wouldn't call it impossible, either. Squenix supposedly had plans for a physical Vita release of their own that got canned, so most of the work might already be done on their end. Who knows?
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All I know I'm blue from holding my breath and suspending heart beats on the reveal for this mystery RPG along with it's and Ys quantities.

Of all games I buy, play, or collect, RPGs are my first love. What can I say I was a SNES kid.

 
Equippt said:
Setsuna doesn't seem super likely, but I wouldn't call it impossible, either. Squenix supposedly had plans for a physical Vita release of their own that got canned, so most of the work might already be done on their end. Who knows?
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I am Setsuna needs a retail release. Especially with the sequel coming out. Not in LRG's realm.

 
frolow said:
I'm not the one who's been proven wrong multiple times here. I've successfully defended every benefit to reprints, nobody have provided an argument that refutes them.

Perhaps consult this next you try to debate:

830e402d70.jpg
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"We don't want to and never will" is about as simple as it gets in refuting reprints.

 
csbaker-az said:
"We don't want to and never will" is about as simple as it gets in refuting reprints.
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@ Frolow

You fail to understand the core basis of logical argument: that it is based on fact and agreed upon data. There is a pre-existing fact, that LRG does not do reprints, which moots you every time. Besides that fact you're strawmanning and ad homineming the shit out of folks.

You're being the kid who plugs his ears.

I'd suggest asking LRG themselves to change the rules so you can carry on with your experiment; then we can test it and see if you're correct.
 
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bradbo said:
You fail to understand the core basis of logical argument: that it is based on fact and agreed upon data. There is a pre-existing fact, that LRG does not do reprints, which moots you every time. Besides that fact you're strawmanning and ad homineming the shit out of folks.

You're being the kid who plugs his ears.

I'd suggest asking LRG themselves to change the rules so you can carry on with your experiment; then we can test it and see if you're correct.
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Uh what? You talking to me or the other guy? I'm confused. I feel like there's another quote missing.

Recap: I'm the guy who doesn't personally care if they reprint or not but knows they never will and why.

 
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Just using that quote to illustrate that this fact is set.

I think we're seeing eye to eye.

Fixed.
 
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bradbo said:
@ Frolow

You fail to understand the core basis of logical argument: that it is based on fact and agreed upon data. There is a pre-existing fact, that LRG does not do reprints, which moots you every time. Besides that fact you're strawmanning and ad homineming the shit out of folks.

You're being the kid who plugs his ears.

I'd suggest asking LRG themselves to change the rules so you can carry on with your experiment; then we can test it and see if you're correct.
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Half their demand would *poof* instantly. It's the same thing with Nintendo being deliberately vague on quantities and reprints. The moment they open their mouth and say "we will make more" nobody wants it anymore. The house of cards falls and things end up upside down in a hurry. As fast as can compute x = 1-x; repeatedly. Playing on the fear of not getting something is basically a input hysteresis filter on demand that keeps it stable and linear and not wildly swinging from one extreme to another.

It's dumb and I personally hate hype and scarcity and fear driven demand models, as its stressful and harmful to my goal of collecting games, but it is what it is and there is no point arguing about it. Either bend hell to make sure you get yours, or don't. /Shrug.

I'm quite vocal at stating my peace that I don't like it. But observe that is not the same as demanding it be changed repeatedly and being serious.

LRG seems genuine and open to ways to improve and make sure collectors are getting their games first and foremost. But if you get hung up reprints you might as well be arguing with concrete why it's hard and won't move.

 
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Speaking of Lawbreakers for the brief moment, has anyone not received their digital code yet? I'm in no rush, I just want to make sure there wasn't an error with my order for whatever reason.

 
frolow said:
I'm not the one who's been proven wrong multiple times here. I've successfully defended every benefit to reprints, nobody have provided an argument that refutes them.
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The arguments have already been presented, you just aren't listening to them.

a) "No LRG Reprints" is one of the central operating tenets from LRG themselves. To break their word and reprint something, this would erode trust and potentially diminish demand from two of their main customer groups (die hard collectors and scalpers). LRG views that as an unacceptable risk to their business model.

b) The very existence of possible reprints by LRG themselves, even with LRG's original promise removed from the equation, would remove the "buy it now" urgency of the initial run and therefore potentially diminish demand from all three of their main customer groups (die hard collectors, scalpers, and people that just like physical), or at least slow it to an unacceptable rate. LRG views that as an unacceptable risk to their business model.

You've heard these arguments, but you just handwave them away and claim, "Nah, it would be okay. LRG should do it anyway because I think I know better." You might even be right, but whether or not it would end up hurting LRG in REALITY is irrelevant, it only matters that LRG feels it would hurt them and therefore view it as an unacceptable risk to their business model. In the end, they are the ones that are exposed to the risks, so it rings a bit hollow when you're on the sidelines aggressively urging them to take actions they've already publically said they deem as risks, on your personal assurance that nothing bad will happen when you have no skin in the game.

 
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Can we just ban all the new people from this thread so that the adults can talk about LRG and make jokes.

 
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bradbo said:
@ Frolow

You fail to understand the core basis of logical argument: that it is based on fact and agreed upon data. There is a pre-existing fact, that LRG does not do reprints, which moots you every time. Besides that fact you're strawmanning and ad homineming the shit out of folks.

You're being the kid who plugs his ears.

I'd suggest asking LRG themselves to change the rules so you can carry on with your experiment; then we can test it and see if you're correct.
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Nice misconstruction. Just because LRG doesn't do reissues doesn't mean I can't argue and suggest they should.

People in India shit on the streets. This is a pre-existing fact. Therefore, you should not even suggest they use toilets, because that is an impossibility. It moots you everytime

You see how stupid that sounds?

 
frolow said:
Nice misconstruction. Just because LRG doesn't do reissues doesn't mean I can't argue and suggest they should.

People in India shit on the streets. This is a pre-existing fact. Therefore, you should not even suggest they use toilets, because that is an impossibility. It moots you everytime

You see how stupid that sounds?
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It sounds stupid because it is non-sequitor and there is no established rule that people in India have to shit in the street.

Bring it.

Edit: you're free to suggest they should. Presently I'm guessing they will ask you to refer to their policy. You have valid points, many have gave you that. Let's move on.
 
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LOL the last 10 lages has been great bathroom reading material. Every time there's basically two camps of responses: "I know better, I'm fucking brilliant" and "No, you really don't" and I know which one I fall into more often than not.

@frolow, here's my suggestion to you as it has been to everyone else who has been incapable of dropping the argument because they think they know better. Put your money where your mouth is and do it yourself. You want reprints of these games? You make it happen yourself. No one is stopping you from negotiating the rights from the developers to do so, but LRG is not going to do it. Simple as that. BYE

Guys, can I suggest we just ignore frolow from this point? The guy is 23 and very obviously lacks enough real world experience to know when to stop. It's clear he's too ignorant to consider a basic principle that is core to LRG anyway.
 
frolow said:
Nice misconstruction. Just because LRG doesn't do reissues doesn't mean I can't argue and suggest they should.

People in India shit on the streets. This is a pre-existing fact. Therefore, you should not even suggest they use toilets, because that is an impossibility. It moots you everytime

You see how stupid that sounds?
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That's why they are India.

I'm as vocal on hating this LRG situation as you. In fact as a ocd collector not wanting to miss releases and also keep game expenditures somewhat finite, LRG is literally a bane to my existence and I'd be able to sleep better if they had never existed. They make collecting a pain in the ass and are a living hell for hardcore collectors who are seconds away from the verge of their collections being fucked every Friday.

But I will continue buying their releases and therefore supporting them nonetheless so what do you make of that paradox?

But understand the difference between stating your peace and moving on vs expecting unchangeable things to change just for you and repeatedly complaining when they don't.

So what do you have that is non negotiable to you? Can I take your stuff? Murder your family? Is there some political stance or philosophical pillar that defines who you are that you have a hard line on? Or are you suggesting that if we argue with you enough about anything and provide evidence that you'll cave on absolutely everything and just roll over?

 
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The arguments have already been presented, you just aren't listening to them.

a) "No LRG Reprints" is one of the central operating tenets from LRG themselves.
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Not really. No reprints has never been their mission statement, that's simply been about bringing digital games to the physical realm. Saying "no reprints" is a foundation of which the company was built upon is disingenuous, as I'm sure the LGR guys would love to have games in stock indefinitely if that was a realistic possibility.

To break their work and reprint something
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I suppose it would break their work, but I doubt it would take longer than any normal release. Considering they do releases pretty much every week now, most people would be fine with dedicating a release week to a reprint. This is not a major issue in the slightest.

this would erode trust and potentially diminish demand from two of their main customer groups (die hard collectors and scalpers). LRG views that as an unacceptable risk to their business model.

b) The very existence of possible reprints by LRG themselves, even with LRG's original promise removed from the equation, would remove the "buy it now" urgency of the initial run and therefore potentially diminish demand from all three of their main customer groups (die hard collectors, scalpers, and people that just like physical), or at least slow it to an unacceptable rate. LRG views that as an unacceptable risk to their business model.
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Die hard collectors aren't buying the games because they're "limited" in the baseball card style where only so many exist, they're buying them to have a "complete collection" deal. LRG specifically markets their releases this way; it's always "This game is LRG-#66 don't miss it, better not have a hole in your collection!" They don't go out of their way to pander and market to the former style of collecting; main releases don't have have individual numbering on them like "This release is LRG #33/500 super duper rare!!!". Those aren't the type of collectors who primarily buy these releases. You're overestimating how many people would legitimately stop buying from LRG if they did reprints. It would not have any major impact on their business because they simply haven't curated towards this type of group.

I can't argue against your last point, this would hurt scalpers. If you base your core business model on scalpers, to the point where it would collapse without them, then I'm not going to support that. Same reason I don't support the ticket scalping websites like Stubhub. Simple as that.

Also again, what original promise? Keeping things limited was never their mission statement, it's an unfortunate byproduct of the business model.

You've heard these arguments, but you just handwave them away and claim, "Nah, it would be okay. LRG should do it anyway because I think I know better." You might even be right, but whether or not it would end up hurting LRG in REALITY is irrelevant, it only matters that LRG feels it would hurt them and therefore view it as an unacceptable risk to their business model. In the end, they are the ones that are exposed to the risks, so it rings a bit hollow when you're on the sidelines aggressively urging them to take actions they've already publically said they deem as risks, on your personal assurance that nothing bad will happen when you have no skin in the game.
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If reprints wouldn't hurt them in reality (which I've all but proven here) and there's money to be made, there's no reason no to do it. It's a simple solution to this current problem that people have taken to be a huge risk for whatever reason. Of course it's easy for me to say all this on the sidelines, just as it's easy for you to say the opposite. That doesn't prove anything.

 
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