2009 MLB Discussion Thread

[quote name='depascal22']Did you completely forget the Phillies won the last World Series and that Charlie Manuel was their manager. C'mon dude.

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/coach_staff_bio.jsp?c_id=phi&coachorstaffid=1030104143220[/QUOTE]


There's obviously some confusion here...

...the one user was saying CHARLIE Manuel had margin for error. The other user obviously was confused and was talking about JERRY Manuel, who definitely does not have any margin for error.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I think the Dodgers will have something to say about a Subway Series. Don't get me wrong. I like the Mets but I have a bad feeling they'll get left standing again when it comes to playoff spots at the end of the year.[/QUOTE]
wut?
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']_5/29: Red Sox

_____5/30: Red Sox

In case anybody is wondering, that's the view from the Yankees rear-view mirror.

Go Yanks! :D[/QUOTE]

Didn't know a 1.5 game lead was that far away?

An interesting stat for you, 5-0. Sure no Arod, but the Red Sox are 6-0 against the Yankees this season. ;)
 
[quote name='yukine']wut?[/QUOTE]

The user before me said he can't wait for a Subway Series. I think the Dodgers will have something to say about that because I think they have a better chance of winning the pennant. I forgot I had to spell everything out here.

As to the dude that was confused, I didn't think that people (especially someone in a 2009 MLB Discussion Thread) would forget that the defending World Champions had a manager named Manuel. With all the guys with rings on the list, you'd think that the general theme was championship managers but, again, I have to spell everything out.
 
[quote name='craven_fiend']Didn't know a 1.5 game lead was that far away?

An interesting stat for you, 5-0. Sure no Arod, but the Red Sox are 6-0 against the Yankees this season. ;)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm not too excited by a 1.5 game lead, but it is nice to see the Yankees in 1st for the first time since 2006.

I'm not too concerned by the Red Sox being 5-0 against us, though. Nothing was working right for the Yankees at that time. Besides not having A-Rod, no one was pitching well out of the bullpen. No one is really blowing people away down there, now, but they are at least get quality innings from Aceves. Maybe, if the organization grows up and will own up to a mistake, Chamberlain will finally end up in the 'pen, where he belongs.
 
[quote name='craven_fiend']Didn't know a 1.5 game lead was that far away?

An interesting stat for you, 5-0. Sure no Arod, but the Red Sox are 6-0 against the Yankees this season. ;)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm just enjoying the opportunity to talk shit and puff out my chest for the first time in a long while. Sox fans have been doing it non-stop for 4 years. It's just nice to be able to flip the script and not be looking up at anyone. This Yankee team has the potential to be very, very good. Not to mention, the lineup has never been 100% yet. We just got Posada back, but Melky has been out. When he and Nady get back (not to mention Bruney and Marte to the bullpen), what do you think is going to happen?

Also, I'd be more concerned with losing two in a row to the Jays (and 6 of your last 10 overall) who had just lost 9 in a row, rather than focusing on what happened a month ago. Boston's starting pitching has been horrid and Papelbon has been blowing saves. I would make the obligatory "Ortiz sucks" comment, but being a knowledgable baseball guy, I know he's not critical to that lineup anymore. His lack of production hurts, obviously, but he's not the centerpiece anymore. However, starting pitching is critical. Yankee fans have had an up close look at crappy starting pitching the last few years. Enjoy your view this year. :)
 
[quote name='depascal22']The user before me said he can't wait for a Subway Series. I think the Dodgers will have something to say about that because I think they have a better chance of winning the pennant. I forgot I had to spell everything out here.

As to the dude that was confused, I didn't think that people (especially someone in a 2009 MLB Discussion Thread) would forget that the defending World Champions had a manager named Manuel. With all the guys with rings on the list, you'd think that the general theme was championship managers but, again, I have to spell everything out.[/QUOTE]

I think he was confused as the Subway Series had nothing to do with the World Series, but the interleague series between the 2 teams.

And in all honesty, I think the Dodgers, out of all the division leading teams, are the most likely to make it to the World Series, since they've been playing so well without Manny. With Manny back, they could run away.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Yeah, I'm just enjoying the opportunity to talk shit and puff out my chest for the first time in a long while. Sox fans have been doing it non-stop for 4 years. It's just nice to be able to flip the script and not be looking up at anyone. This Yankee team has the potential to be very, very good. Not to mention, the lineup has never been 100% yet. We just got Posada back, but Melky has been out. When he and Nady get back (not to mention Bruney and Marte to the bullpen), what do you think is going to happen?

Also, I'd be more concerned with losing two in a row to the Jays (and 6 of your last 10 overall) who had just lost 9 in a row, rather than focusing on what happened a month ago. Boston's starting pitching has been horrid and Papelbon has been blowing saves. I would make the obligatory "Ortiz sucks" comment, but being a knowledgable baseball guy, I know he's not critical to that lineup anymore. His lack of production hurts, obviously, but he's not the centerpiece anymore. However, starting pitching is critical. Yankee fans have had an up close look at crappy starting pitching the last few years. Enjoy your view this year. :)[/QUOTE]

Win a Championship, then you can puff out your chest. But remember the main problem the Yankees have had over the past 8 seasons is their inability to finish the job. I think that they'll continue that trend nicely this year.

I wish I knew what was going on with the Sox pitching staff. When our best pitcher is Tim Wakefield, you know we have problems.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Win a Championship, then you can puff out your chest. But remember the main problem the Yankees have had over the past 8 seasons is their inability to finish the job. I think that they'll continue that trend nicely this year.

I wish I knew what was going on with the Sox pitching staff. When our best pitcher is Tim Wakefield, you know we have problems.[/QUOTE]

Um, well they have won 26 you know. (I'm not like the obnoxious Rays fans last year who were talking shit after being out of the cellar for the first time ever)

And, based on what? That just sounds like wishful thinking. As far as pitching goes, even earlier this year for the Yankees, I was saying, if you've got proven guys underperforming, you have to blame the pitching coach. If anyone was going to get fired on the Yankee staff this year, I'd want it to be Dave Eiland. The Sox might want to consider the same solution.
 
[quote name='depascal22']The user before me said he can't wait for a Subway Series. I think the Dodgers will have something to say about that because I think they have a better chance of winning the pennant. I forgot I had to spell everything out here.[/QUOTE]

You have to spell things out when you make no sense. "Subway Series" refers to the Mets and Yankees playing against each other, including the regular season. Pretty sure that is what integralsmatic was referring to, I don't think he is already looking at post season matchups.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Um, well they have won 26 you know. (I'm not like the obnoxious Rays fans last year who were talking shit after being out of the cellar for the first time ever)

And, based on what? That just sounds like wishful thinking. As far as pitching goes, even earlier this year for the Yankees, I was saying, if you've got proven guys underperforming, you have to blame the pitching coach. If anyone was going to get fired on the Yankee staff this year, I'd want it to be Dave Eiland. The Sox might want to consider the same solution.[/QUOTE]

How many have the Yankees won in the last 8 years? How many have the Red Sox won in the last 8 years? This is a world of 'what have you done for me lately?' and lately the Yankees have not done so much.

Let's see...you're highest paid player can't perform in the Playoffs, your Team Captain is aging, and in previous postseasons you've been ousted by the Indians and Tigers in somewhat easy fashion. If you guys want to fire anyone, fire Cashman. He's spending money on players that aren't winning you anything.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Yeah, I'm just enjoying the opportunity to talk shit and puff out my chest for the first time in a long while. Sox fans have been doing it non-stop for 4 years. It's just nice to be able to flip the script and not be looking up at anyone. This Yankee team has the potential to be very, very good. Not to mention, the lineup has never been 100% yet. We just got Posada back, but Melky has been out. When he and Nady get back (not to mention Bruney and Marte to the bullpen), what do you think is going to happen?

Also, I'd be more concerned with losing two in a row to the Jays (and 6 of your last 10 overall) who had just lost 9 in a row, rather than focusing on what happened a month ago. Boston's starting pitching has been horrid and Papelbon has been blowing saves. I would make the obligatory "Ortiz sucks" comment, but being a knowledgable baseball guy, I know he's not critical to that lineup anymore. His lack of production hurts, obviously, but he's not the centerpiece anymore. However, starting pitching is critical. Yankee fans have had an up close look at crappy starting pitching the last few years. Enjoy your view this year. :)[/QUOTE]

Healthy debates are nice.

The Sox started the Blue Jays down turn, so it would only be fitting that the Blue Jays helped the limping Sox continue to limp. But one thing can be said about the Sox, and not many other teams (if any), they've yet to get swept in any series. Not that big, but thats why they haven't fallen too far when they've played this way.

If it wasn't for Ortiz, I think the Sox may actually be a few games up in the win column, or atleast a case could be made for them to have won a few more (12 runners stranded is insane)

Can't wait for the series in 2 weeks. Should be an interesting stretch for the Sox, with the Yankees and Phillies back to back series.

Edit: Damn brutal June for the Sox. Get all 3 AL Division leaders, as of today, in a row (luckily TEX/NYY at Fenway). Go to Philly, then it gets easier. FLA/ATL at home then at WAS/ATL/BAL
 
Worry not about the Red Sox. The fact that they have been at or near the top of the AL East standings despite Ortiz's massive struggles and underachieving starting pitching just shows how deep they are. The starters have already started to turn it around and Smoltz will enter the rotation mid-season so I fully expect them to run away with the division. Now if they could only find a shortstop that can actually play defense, they'd be all set.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Worry not about the Red Sox. The fact that they have been at or near the top of the AL East standings despite Ortiz's massive struggles and underachieving starting pitching just shows how deep they are. The starters have already started to turn it around and Smoltz will enter the rotation mid-season so I fully expect them to run away with the division. Now if they could only find a shortstop that can actually play defense, they'd be all set.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, or atleast a SS that can hit for good average and power, to make up for defensive mistakes. If only Weeks hadn't got hurt, maybe Hardy could've been had....yeah right.

Hopefully Clay gets a call up soon as well. He's been amazing in AAA.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Worry not about the Red Sox. The fact that they have been at or near the top of the AL East standings despite Ortiz's massive struggles and underachieving starting pitching just shows how deep they are. The starters have already started to turn it around and Smoltz will enter the rotation mid-season so I fully expect them to run away with the division. Now if they could only find a shortstop that can actually play defense, they'd be all set.[/QUOTE]

Wow, you honestly expect the Red Sox to run away with the division? Kind of bold statement there. You're talking about the Red Sox performing with a struggling Ortiz. The Yankees were playing like absolute shit for the first month plus of the season, and despite that horrible play, they are in first, now. At various points, they have missed:

- one of the best players in baseball for more than a month (Rodriguez)
- one of the best catchers in baseball for about three weeks (Jorge)
- a two-time 19-game winner for more than a month (Wang, who, by the way, basically handed over three games in his starts, so that's three games right there the Yankees never had any chance of winning)
- and they have NO bullpen outside of Rivera, who is still recovering from surgery...and getting old, unfortunately.

I'm not saying the Yankees are definitely going to win that division, but sorry, no one is running away with it. The four teams are all quite good, and they are gonna beat up on each other all year. And don't forget the O's. The pitching blows, but they can score runs. They will steal some wins away. And let's face, the Yankees are not the Yankees of the last couple of years. They finally have a true ace in Sabathia and a truly lethal middle of the order in Tex, A-Rod, and Cano, not to mention how well the flip-flop of Jeter and Damon has worked out so well. If Nady is ever able to throw again this year (he's gonna start a throwing program this week, but it likely he will just pinch hit and DH most of the year)...or if Matsui can ever get his legs under him...they can get fucking Swisher out of the lineup. Then, you're looking at the deepest 1 through 9 in baseball...easily. You're gonna have guys like Matsui and Nady batting 7 and 8. Then, you either have Melky, who looks to finally be getting it, or Gardner, who is a pitcher's nightmare when he gets on, batting ninth.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Wow, you honestly expect the Red Sox to run away with the division? Kind of bold statement there. You're talking about the Red Sox performing with a struggling Ortiz. The Yankees were playing like absolute shit for the first month plus of the season, and despite that horrible play, they are in first, now. At various points, they have missed:

- one of the best players in baseball for more than a month (Rodriguez)
- one of the best catchers in baseball for about three weeks (Jorge)
- a two-time 19-game winner for more than a month (Wang, who, by the way, basically handed over three games in his starts, so that's three games right there the Yankees never had any chance of winning)
- and they have NO bullpen outside of Rivera, who is still recovering from surgery...and getting old, unfortunately.

I'm not saying the Yankees are definitely going to win that division, but sorry, no one is running away with it. The four teams are all quite good, and they are gonna beat up on each other all year. And don't forget the O's. The pitching blows, but they can score runs. They will steal some wins away. And let's face, the Yankees are not the Yankees of the last couple of years. They finally have a true ace in Sabathia and a truly lethal middle of the order in Tex, A-Rod, and Cano, not to mention how well the flip-flop of Jeter and Damon has worked out so well. If Nady is ever able to throw again this year (he's gonna start a throwing program this week, but it likely he will just pinch hit and DH most of the year)...or if Matsui can ever get his legs under him...they can get fucking Swisher out of the lineup. Then, you're looking at the deepest 1 through 9 in baseball...easily. You're gonna have guys like Matsui and Nady batting 7 and 8. Then, you either have Melky, who looks to finally be getting it, or Gardner, who is a pitcher's nightmare when he gets on, batting ninth.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Bruce. I didn't want to have to do that myself, haha ;)

Today's loss was a tough one. I think Girardi is THIS close to having the pen straightened out though. As John Sterling said, he's given people every opportunity to prove that they're big leaguers, and some guys are just blowing it. Veras is likely gone, Coke is likely gone, and who knows what happens with the Hughes/Joba/Wang triangle. Somebody will be in the pen (unless Andy's back gets worse).

I also expect to see Melancon back soon, and depending on how many guys the Yanks feel like cutting loose altogether, Kroenke, Claggett, and possibly even Kontos could get called up (none of whom are on the 40 man roster). I don't think Girardi has much patience with relievers who can't throw strikes, and that's a good thing.
 
[quote name='yukine']You have to spell things out when you make no sense. "Subway Series" refers to the Mets and Yankees playing against each other, including the regular season. Pretty sure that is what integralsmatic was referring to, I don't think he is already looking at post season matchups.[/QUOTE]

thank you n8rocksyou and yukine. Yeah i was refferring to June 12-14 at Citifield. Mets/Yanks subway series. even though we are hurt, we are still getting some stellar starting pitching. hopefully guys get better and we get some bodies back because the yanks are starting their hit parade again. ooh but im dying to see Johan vs CC.

With the AL East debate. i think that debate should start after All-Star break. like august/september. The yanks could be hot now and sputter down the end. it has happend before and who knows what injuries and set backs both teams may incur later in the year.
not to mention the other 2 teams arent that far off either. They just need one hot streak and the other two to falter and they are right back in it. personally, I think both teams are pretty even at this point. The Sox are starting to hit again and the yankees are getting their problems fixed and who knows what both cashman and epstein may pull at the deadline. I feel like epstien is going to go for a big bat to replace Papi in the lineup. Matt Holliday maybe?
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']Huzzah for Jamie Moyer's 250th win. Though I don't know how many more of those he has got in the tank.[/QUOTE]

congrats lol. Yeah im surprised his arm hasnt fallen off yet. only 50 more to go!
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']Huzzah for Jamie Moyer's 250th win. Though I don't know how many more of those he has got in the tank.[/QUOTE]

That's so awesome for him. He was one of the most reliable pitchers in Mariners history (we have a pretty pathetic history) and I'm happy to see him finally reach that milestone.

Not bad for a guy who barely throws 80 miles per hour.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Thank you Bruce. I didn't want to have to do that myself, haha ;)

Today's loss was a tough one. I think Girardi is THIS close to having the pen straightened out though. As John Sterling said, he's given people every opportunity to prove that they're big leaguers, and some guys are just blowing it. Veras is likely gone, Coke is likely gone, and who knows what happens with the Hughes/Joba/Wang triangle. Somebody will be in the pen (unless Andy's back gets worse).

I also expect to see Melancon back soon, and depending on how many guys the Yanks feel like cutting loose altogether, Kroenke, Claggett, and possibly even Kontos could get called up (none of whom are on the 40 man roster). I don't think Girardi has much patience with relievers who can't throw strikes, and that's a good thing.[/QUOTE]

The bullpen, as it has been since the departure/aging of guys like Nelson, Stanton, and Mendoza, is a rickety bridge to Mo, at best. Fortunately, a lot of those issues have been covered up this month thanks to deep outings by the starters, which we really haven't seen a lot of in awhile. I'm most happy about some of the games where Andy just grinds it out. He doesn't have great stuff, but he still finds a way to go seven and give up like two or three runs, even though he ends up getting a bit whacked around a bit.

If Andy is healthy, and I hate, hate, hate to beat a dead horse, but Joba needs to be in the 'pen. That is where a) he's at his best and b) the Yankees need him most. Sorry, but when it comes to the Yankees, a team that spends $200 millon+ on their payroll, you need to win, win, and win. The Yankees have very little chance of winning a pennant this year with that crappy bullpen. Playoff teams will simply wait out the starters and rip apart the 'pen in the 7th and 8th. When Joba is the 'pen, it's like '96 all over again: two innings of the set-up guy and the closer shuts the door.

Joba might be a great starter some day, but it ain't happening right now, for whatever reason. The Yankees don't need him in the rotation, anyway. You have CC and AJ, who looked much better his last start. There are your aces. In any playoff series, you're seeing them four times. Wang definitely looks like he found whatever he lost...or he is finally healthy...take your pick. The last two games, his sinker has been nasty, and he's getting his velocity back up. I saw a number of pitches hit like 93/94 today. Most interesting, he's got 5 punchouts in the last 5 innings. He's never been a big swing and miss guy, but there seems to be some extra sink when he gets the pitch down. He also seems to be getting more faith in the slider. So, if he's good, that's another two games right there in a series. Then, whoever is healthy or pitching well, you plug Andy or Hughes in for a start. No need for Joba.

One last note on Wang. When it comes to this debate, I've heard a lot of people bring up Wang's postseason failures. Well, I can't argue with you there. He has stunk in the playoffs, except for that one start against the Tigers in '05. But the difference now is, no one is looking at Wang as the ace, a role he was forced to fill in the past, especially in that '07 series against the Indians. He can hover in under the radar. Besides, as bad as Wang has been in the playoffs, does anyone really want to see Joba start a playoff game? Against the Angels? Or Tigers? Or Rangers? Or whoever ends up in the playoffs? Holy shit. Four runs in the first, he's gone by the forth, and the game is over. No thanks. I'll take my chances with Wang.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']The bullpen, as it has been since the departure/aging of guys like Nelson, Stanton, and Mendoza, is a rickety bridge to Mo, at best. Fortunately, a lot of those issues have been covered up this month thanks to deep outings by the starters, which we really haven't seen a lot of in awhile. I'm most happy about some of the games where Andy just grinds it out. He doesn't have great stuff, but he still finds a way to go seven and give up like two or three runs, even though he ends up getting a bit whacked around a bit.

If Andy is healthy, and I hate, hate, hate to beat a dead horse, but Joba needs to be in the 'pen. That is where a) he's at his best and b) the Yankees need him most. Sorry, but when it comes to the Yankees, a team that spends $200 millon+ on their payroll, you need to win, win, and win. The Yankees have very little chance of winning a pennant this year with that crappy bullpen. Playoff teams will simply wait out the starters and rip apart the 'pen in the 7th and 8th. When Joba is the 'pen, it's like '96 all over again: two innings of the set-up guy and the closer shuts the door.

Joba might be a great starter some day, but it ain't happening right now, for whatever reason. The Yankees don't need him in the rotation, anyway. You have CC and AJ, who looked much better his last start. There are your aces. In any playoff series, you're seeing them four times. Wang definitely looks like he found whatever he lost...or he is finally healthy...take your pick. The last two games, his sinker has been nasty, and he's getting his velocity back up. I saw a number of pitches hit like 93/94 today. Most interesting, he's got 5 punchouts in the last 5 innings. He's never been a big swing and miss guy, but there seems to be some extra sink when he gets the pitch down. He also seems to be getting more faith in the slider. So, if he's good, that's another two games right there in a series. Then, whoever is healthy or pitching well, you plug Andy or Hughes in for a start. No need for Joba.

One last note on Wang. When it comes to this debate, I've heard a lot of people bring up Wang's postseason failures. Well, I can't argue with you there. He has stunk in the playoffs, except for that one start against the Tigers in '05. But the difference now is, no one is looking at Wang as the ace, a role he was forced to fill in the past, especially in that '07 series against the Indians. He can hover in under the radar. Besides, as bad as Wang has been in the playoffs, does anyone really want to see Joba start a playoff game? Against the Angels? Or Tigers? Or Rangers? Or whoever ends up in the playoffs? Holy shit. Four runs in the first, he's gone by the forth, and the game is over. No thanks. I'll take my chances with Wang.[/QUOTE]

Despite throwing in the mid-90's, Wang never had a high K rate. He made up for it by getting tons of groundballs and allowing very few homeruns (led the league in HR/9 twice). Small sample size caveat

HR/9 GB/FB BB/9
2006 0.5 1.72 2.1
2007 0.4 1.39 2.7
2008 0.4 1.21 3.3
2009 2.5 0.65 5.7

On the brightside, so far this year his BABIP is an insanely high .531

The bullpen is another story. Listening to the Yanks, you would think Brian Bruney is a late-90's Jeff Nelson.
 
[quote name='paddlefoot']The bullpen is another story. Listening to the Yanks, you would think Brian Bruney is a late-90's Jeff Nelson.[/QUOTE]

Bruney is that good when he's healthy. Last year going into spring training, he finally decided to take his career seriously and dropped like 20lbs and gained control over all his pitches. And for a guy who already throws 96 mph, that's an amazing thing. Then, he fractured his foot when he fell trying to cover first base (talk about a freak injury).

The guy comes into camp looking great again this year, and keeps getting hit with more injuries. I really feel bad for him because it's like he had a career altering revelation and hasn't been able to prove himself. I'm really pulling for the guy. He's due to start his throwing program (again) on Tuesday. I just hope that elbow holds up.
 
[quote name='paddlefoot']Despite throwing in the mid-90's, Wang never had a high K rate.[/QUOTE]

Indeed. It's kind of a pleasant surprised for Yankee fans who have always wanted to see him punch a few more guys out. It could just be an oddity (very small sample size, after all), but we shall see. As I alluded to, the reason he doesn't strike out many is because he doesn't really have an out pitch. He's always pretty much relied on his four-seam fastball and the sinker. But him throwing the slider a little more is a good sign. I mean, he has won 19 games twice and posted sub-4.00 ERAs while being a pretty hittable pitcher. If he can effectively mix in another pitch, that's kind of scary.

Anyway, as far as Bruney goes, I definitely agree with the other poster that it seems like he is trying to turn his career around. He has pitched better in the last two years, and I think the sample size is large enough to draw some conclusions from. The most important number is the walks. This is a guy who, prior to last year, averaged nearly SEVEN walks per nine innings. The last two years, though, it's around four. Still, not great, but much, much better.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Indeed. It's kind of a pleasant surprised for Yankee fans who have always wanted to see him punch a few more guys out. It could just be an oddity (very small sample size, after all), but we shall see. As I alluded to, the reason he doesn't strike out many is because he doesn't really have an out pitch. He's always pretty much relied on his four-seam fastball and the sinker. But him throwing the slider a little more is a good sign. I mean, he has won 19 games twice and posted sub-4.00 ERAs while being a pretty hittable pitcher. If he can effectively mix in another pitch, that's kind of scary.

Anyway, as far as Bruney goes, I definitely agree with the other poster that it seems like he is trying to turn his career around. He has pitched better in the last two years, and I think the sample size is large enough to draw some conclusions from. The most important number is the walks. This is a guy who, prior to last year, averaged nearly SEVEN walks per nine innings. The last two years, though, it's around four. Still, not great, but much, much better.[/QUOTE]

Relievers are such a crapshoot. It took a 4-year deal to Steve Karsay for the Yankees to discover that little nugget of knowledge. Teams need to get 5-7 relievers into camp and try to find 4 good ones for the late innings, or at least 4 that don't completely suck. There are maybe 5 relievers in baseball that deserve multi-year deals. I understand some Yankee fans don't buy this, but they have been spoiled by one of the greatest relievers, nah, pitchers of all-time.
 
I think you've said two things that I have said for years and completely agree with. Relief pitchers are a crapshoot. And yes, the team has been spoiled by having Rivera at the backend for 15 years.
 
[quote name='Chitown021']Wow, it took the Diamondbacks 18 innings to beat the Padres. And I thought the Cubs 14 inning game against the Reds was long![/QUOTE]

Better for it to happen in early June. This is purely anecdotal, but I can remember a few teams collapsing after losing a marathon game in late August.
 
[quote name='Chitown021']Wow, it took the Diamondbacks 18 innings to beat the Padres. And I thought the Cubs 14 inning game against the Reds was long![/QUOTE]
It's so ridiculous it even got to that. Once again our bullpen proves that they are worst in baseball this season.

We had a 6-1 lead in the 9th inning, the bullpen gave up 5 runs and Haren who pitched another outstanding game gets a no decision. He should have a lot more wins right now the way he has been pitching.

"The game marked the second time on this road trip that Haren left with what seemed a solid lead only to wind up with a no-decision. On Tuesday night against the Dodgers, he left up, 5-1, only to watch the bullpen allow five runs in the eighth as Los Angeles won, 6-5."

During the broadcast they mentioned D-back bullpen has given up 24 runs in 21 innings to the Padres.

And to make things worse, Upton injures himself in the 10th inning when they should be hitting the showers instead of still playing. Hopefully he will be OK, it's a shame since he is really hot for us right now.
 
what a craptastic road trip. got swept by the pirates and took 2-3 from the natties. We need some bodies back soon. Putz,Reyes,Delgado all on the DL..but now we have Church back which makes our OF now crowded.

I am liking Fernando Martinez though. The kid is looking real good and he hit in some big spots...looks a heck of a lot better than Lastings Milledge.
 
Anybody else surprised that Jim Edmonds is still unsigned? He played decently last year in limited time. Surely someone needs a veteran fourth outfielder.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']Anybody else surprised that Jim Edmonds is still unsigned? He played decently last year in limited time. Surely someone needs a veteran fourth outfielder.[/QUOTE]

im not that surprised. He does still have health issues..and he probably lost some of his bat speed. But hey if Gary Sheffield can get a job..im sure Edmonds can too. But I wonder what's his asking price is. If its vet's minimum, than there has to be a team that should scoop him up....but just thinking about it, every team is practically loaded in the OF position and the tbe teams that are doing good, dont need him...and the teams that are doing bad would rather develop their own talent. So looks like he is at a catch 22.
 
[quote name='yukine']It's so ridiculous it even got to that. Once again our bullpen proves that they are worst in baseball this season.

We had a 6-1 lead in the 9th inning, the bullpen gave up 5 runs and Haren who pitched another outstanding game gets a no decision. He should have a lot more wins right now the way he has been pitching.

[/QUOTE]

We've had the same problem with rookie starter Randy Wells. He's started 6 games, has a 1.86 ERA, and an 0-2 record to show for it. The other night this kid had a no hitter into the 7th. He left with a 5-1 lead, the pen blows it, and we lost 6-5 in extras!
 
Giants....one game out of the Wild Card...

And yet trade the whole coddamn team....Winn/Rowand/Randy Shitson/Johnathan Sanchez....take any of em'.
 
So i guess April has reared its ugly head again and the mets have finally returned to earth. If the mets dont come out on top in the subway series....im just going to go off...because 1 team i didnt want to lose was the phillies and in that kind of fashion. TWO 10 inning GW HRs. ARE YOU SERIOUS! I swear the mets have the worst case of deja vu ever! They are the only club to repeat bad events. Choke Artists, i swear! If they can atleast take two from the mighty yankees...than i know there is still fight left in this team. if not.....than i am nearly done.

Now Maine going on the DL is the last straw for me. Reyes' time on the DL is unknown, Delgado wont be back for a couple more weeks, putz is out for 1 month, maine will probably be out for a month knowing how brittle he is. im just on the brink of throwing in the towel.its nearly July and the Mets havent changed a god damn thing. I hope they prove me wrong and make it to playoffs because as it stands they have NO SHOT.
 
Wow, the Rangers signed El Duque to a minor league contract. Just goes to show that if your arm hasn't fallen off your body, you might be able to find a job pitching for someone. The state of major league pitching is really sad.
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']So i guess April has reared its ugly head again and the mets have finally returned to earth. If the mets dont come out on top in the subway series....im just going to go off...because 1 team i didnt want to lose was the phillies and in that kind of fashion. TWO 10 inning GW HRs. ARE YOU SERIOUS! I swear the mets have the worst case of deja vu ever! They are the only club to repeat bad events. Choke Artists, i swear! If they can atleast take two from the mighty yankees...than i know there is still fight left in this team. if not.....than i am nearly done.

Now Maine going on the DL is the last straw for me. Reyes' time on the DL is unknown, Delgado wont be back for a couple more weeks, putz is out for 1 month, maine will probably be out for a month knowing how brittle he is. im just on the brink of throwing in the towel.its nearly July and the Mets havent changed a god damn thing. I hope they prove me wrong and make it to playoffs because as it stands they have NO SHOT.[/QUOTE]

They are playing hard but they have such a depleted lineup that it just doesn't matter. I fully expect the Yankees to sweep if not take the series 2-1 this weekend.
 
Nice sweep against the Yankees. This time they had Arod and a hot Teix and still the outcome was the same.

But this can only mean that the Sox will go into Philly and lose 2 of 3.
 
How come a starting pitcher who pitches a complete close game for a win doesn't also get a save? If Justin Verlander pitches a complete 2-1 game for the win he should also be given a save, right? Wouldn't the bottom of the 9th be a save situation? If another pitcher were brought in he would have a chance at earning a save. How come starting pitchers can't earn a save?
 
You can't save a game that you started based on the definition of a save. Saves are a made up stat by a sportswriter that was used to gauge the value of relief pitchers but in a very artificial way.
 
[quote name='dopa345']You can't save a game that you started based on the definition of a save. Saves are a made up stat by a sportswriter that was used to gauge the value of relief pitchers but in a very artificial way.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's artificial at all. But you are right about one thing. That definition of a save that you're referring to is the score of the game when the pitcher throws his first pitch. Since the game is 0-0 when a starter throws his first pitch, there's never an opportunity for a save. It's the same as if a reliever is brought into a tie game and also throws the final out. He gets a win. No need for a save.
 
Sooo.. Castillo goes and completely throws all the good will everyone has built up towards him right out the window in a matter of seconds.

I'm really sick of watching a very talented team make very rookie mistakes.
 
Wow, yeah. Not for nothing, though, but where is Church running to during that play? No matter how routine the play looks, he should be backing up. If he picked up the drop, he might have had a slight chance to cut down the winning. At least, more of a shot than they had, considering Castillo fell and had to relay to Cora, first. Tex isn't exactly a speedster. Thing is, the Yankees did the fundamental things there, and Church was already running into celebrate.
 
The mets never fail to surprise me.

no matter is church wasnt backing him up......Castillo should have had that. Its a routine in field pop up. Not many infielders mess those up...unless its a situation like the yanks earlier with jeter making that great play. I was really about to vomit after I saw that. After all that battling and finally getting clutch hits....dwright getting one in the 8th off Mo...i had the booked closed up with K-Rod in the 9th. It was perfect. A-Rod career lifetime 1-17 against K-Rod..and 2 out and than this happens. only the Mets can fuck up perfect situations. and now we Fernando Nieve up tomorrow against Andy Petitte.....might as well chalk up another loss because i dont expect Nieve to last beyond the 4th inning after the hit parade that was dealt to Livan tonight.
 
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