2009 MLB Discussion Thread

[quote name='wildcpac']Lee to the Phillies is being reported as official pending medical reviews. The Phillies were able to get him for 4 minor leaguers and Drabek wasn't included.[/QUOTE]
Brown and Taylor weren't part of the package either. Shapiro must see something in the 4 that the rest of us don't. I mean yea, decent prospects up and down, but nobody could do better for the defending Cy Young with a year still on the contract and an ERA at 3 in the AL?
 
Phillies just locked up the NL East with that move.

Braves and Marlins will have to fight for the wild card, and that's going to be a tight race between a bunch of teams this year.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Lee to the Phillies is being reported as official pending medical reviews. The Phillies were able to get him for 4 minor leaguers and Drabek wasn't included.[/QUOTE]

Well Edes reported its a done deal plus they get a good young OF in Ben Francisco. Great Trade for the Phillies. The Phillies just got tons better. They shored up their pitching and now have a good extra OF.

Wonder what JP is going to do now.
 
Was at the game where Teh Franchise throws 15 k's......just not fair.

About 10-ish rows back from Teh Lord Barry Bonds....

Welcome Freddie Sanchez.
 
To be fair, it seems like the Pirates at least got good returns on today's trades from what I've read.

As for my Braves----Kawakami sucks. Can we send him back to Japan?
 
[quote name='jousley']My Cardinals seem to be having so much more fun now that Holliday, Derosa and Lugo are there. Even though I felt a little remorseful that Chris Duncan was traded...Im glad. He was so mopey and overmatched the last couple years at bat. I'm just happy that FINALLY the Cards make some deals at the deadline...and hopefully this shows Pujols that they are committed to winning and they can sign him to a long extension.

If I ever see Pujols wearing pinstripes or a "B" on his cap I will puke.[/QUOTE]

It could be a photo finish in the central this year. The Cubs and the Cards seem to have caught fire at the same time. It's kinda sickening to see DeRosa in a Cardinals uniform. Ditching Marquis, Wood, and DeRosa to clear salary for Bradley has not turned out to be such a good move.
 
Alderson for Freddie Sanchez.....

Alderson is a future #2 at best starter-ish.....be a starter in the league for sure....

Dig the trade. Shit load better than the Uribe/Downs/Frandsen/Burriss the Giants have trotted out.....
 
[quote name='speedracer']Brown and Taylor weren't part of the package either. Shapiro must see something in the 4 that the rest of us don't. I mean yea, decent prospects up and down, but nobody could do better for the defending Cy Young with a year still on the contract and an ERA at 3 in the AL?[/QUOTE]

*sigh* my thoughts exactly. I can't help but feel that the Indians could have got more for Lee, but for both Lee and Francisco, the Indians just got robbed.
 
[quote name='Filbert']*sigh* my thoughts exactly. I can't help but feel that the Indians could have got more for Lee, but for both Lee and Francisco, the Indians just got robbed.[/QUOTE]

they see more of a ceiling in Knapp than Drybek or Happ...the prospect numbers goes i think 2,7,and 10. That should have been all just for lee..but again to add francisco in that deal, i agree. Highway robbery. Shapiro needs to go.
 
Clayton Kershaw's ERA over his last 14 (!!) starts: 1.60
Clayton Kershaw's ERA over his last 5 starts: 0.79

The last time he gave up more than 3 earned in a game: May 12th.
Given up 3 runs in a game since May 12th: 2 times.
Given up 0 runs in a game since May 12th: 6 times.

Age: 21
Lefty
+Fastball
++Curveball
-Changeup (was -- last year, he's working on it hard and should be average by the end of the year if not already)

This kid is astounding. I would love for Lincecum and Kershaw to be healthy for a decade and face each other 25 times. That would be great baseball.

His line last night: 8 IP, 4 H, 2 BB, 7 K, 0 R.

[quote name='Filbert']*sigh* my thoughts exactly. I can't help but feel that the Indians could have got more for Lee, but for both Lee and Francisco, the Indians just got robbed.[/QUOTE]

A great analogy: "This is like Cleveland and Philly had a joint picnic . . . Cleveland brought ribs chicken steaks and baked beans . . . Philly brought some red kool-aid, generic potato chips and a quart of potato salad from Wal Mart, with a bad date."
 
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I'm utterly shocked that the New York Times would chose to only name two guys who were prominent Red Sox players. Surely its a coincidence.

It doesn't surprise me that a guy who got released would be desperate enough to turn to drugs. But he did have 47 and 54 HR seasons under the current testing program with no positives, so all we can conclude is that he either tried it and stopped, or MLB's drug testing program is utterly worthless.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I'm utterly shocked that the New York Times would chose to only name two guys who were prominent Red Sox players. Surely its a coincidence.

It doesn't surprise me that a guy who got released would be desperate enough to turn to drugs. But he did have 47 and 54 HR seasons under the current testing program with no positives, so all we can conclude is that he either tried it and stopped, or MLB's drug testing program is utterly worthless.[/QUOTE]

I'm more interested in what exactly he tested positive for in 2003. For example, Ephedra is on the banned list as a PED. I'm not naive, it was probably a steroid or steroid derivative. Just for closure.
 
I didn't agree with the way they released ARod's name, and I don't agree with the way they named Ortiz and Manny now.

This should really be an all or nothing deal. It's bullshit that people are getting named one at a time.
 
What is really sad is that this will continue to happen unless the list just gets released and out in the public. The best thing MLB can do to save face for the past 10 years of baseball is to release the list, and try to get out of the spotlight. If one or two names keep coming out every few months, then MLB will continue to have its practices,policies and procedures revolving steroids and the consequences on the game come into question.
 
I wish they'd release the list already. It's best to get it all out there now instead of making it a story for the next 5-6 years off again/on again.

It sucks that Papi reportedly juiced (Red Sox fan here), but I do find it odd that Manny and Papi were THE ONLY TWO mentioned. I mean, give me a break. Also, if you're going on a tangent about tainted Championships, put every other team who won a World Series for the past 20 years in there as well, including The Yankees.

Black eye for baseball? Yes. The biggest black eye? Nope. We're all just secretly waiting for one name to drop and that name is Albert Pujols.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I wish they'd release the list already. It's best to get it all out there now instead of making it a story for the next 5-6 years off again/on again.

It sucks that Papi reportedly juiced (Red Sox fan here), but I do find it odd that Manny and Papi were THE ONLY TWO mentioned. I mean, give me a break. Also, if you're going on a tangent about tainted Championships, put every other team who won a World Series for the past 20 years in there as well, including The Yankees.

Black eye for baseball? Yes. The biggest black eye? Nope. We're all just secretly waiting for one name to drop and that name is Albert Pujols.[/QUOTE]

This isn't about the Yankees. This is about the Red Sox who cheated and won 2 World Series with a whole roster of cheaters in 2004 and 2007. Both of your recent championships are TAINTED. 91 Years and counting between a legit Championship.
 
So the 2000 team with Chuck Knoblauch, Jose Canseco, David Justice, Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Jim Leyritz, Jason Grimsley, Doc Gooden, Mike Stanton, Denny Neagle, and Glenallen Hill was... What exactly?

Every World Series and every team has been tainted by this for at least 20 years, probably longer. Thats the whole point of all this. Even Babe Ruth injected himself with an extract from sheep testicles.

Its as bad as the NFL now. Testing is a sham, even if your caught there are no serious consequences. Shawne Merriman still made the Pro Bowl, was still an All Pro in the season he got busted. Manny will probably still be up for some kind of award if he plays well. Theres no credibility left in either sport.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']This isn't about the Yankees. This is about the Red Sox who cheated and won 2 World Series with a whole roster of cheaters in 2004 and 2007. Both of your recent championships are TAINTED. 91 Years and counting between a legit Championship.[/QUOTE]

This is about every team, its that simple. I'm sure the list have past/present members of the Yankees. Red Sox, Rangers, and many more teams.

I'd honestly be more surprised if Griffey was on there, than I would if Pujols was.
 
Baseball as a whole...every, single team, championship, record, whatever...for the last 20 or so years is completely tainted. And it's a shame, especially for those players that didn't cheat, but who will always have that cloud over their head, anyway. There will always be that small amount of doubt in your head...did he do it, too?
 
Exactly, no team had an unfair advantage as it's pretty clear that PED usage was rampant throughout all of baseball.

All the records are tainted in comparison to earlier eras, but world series wins are not in the sense that PED use was rampant for a couple of decades and there's no evidence that some teams had more users than others.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']It doesn't surprise me that a guy who got released would be desperate enough to turn to drugs. But he did have 47 and 54 HR seasons under the current testing program with no positives, so all we can conclude is that he either tried it and stopped, or MLB's drug testing program is utterly worthless.[/QUOTE]

Then you've gotta say the same thing about A-Rod. Either way, as I said two years ago, all this crap is pointless. All these names coming out, all the finger pointing, it's all a waste of time. Yes, Derek Jeter wants people to know that not EVERYBODY was doing it, but that would still be a true statement if 95% of players were juicing. As dumb as A-Rod's defense of it sounded, it WAS part of the culture.

Even the Hall of Fame debate is ridiculous. Players have ALWAYS tried doing things to get ahead. Joe Morgan has gone on record about greenies numerous times, and Bob Costas has pointed out all the things that baseball has gone through which have altered the record books (longer season, better gloves, deadball, etc.). If you put guys like McGwire and Clemens into the Hall, people are going to know what they did and judge them accordingly. That's really all you can expect.

The media/fans/politicians can sit around lamenting and condemning the fact that this happened for decades. But you can't change the past. Whether baseball's new testing policy works remains to be seen, but until we hear about numerous players failing RECENT tests (who the hell cares about what happened in 2003?), you have to assume it's working. People need to let it go and move on.
 
The funny thing is that it's not really cheating.. Steroid testing wasn't really taking place and being recognized as a problem until 2006.. I think the biggest travesty in baseball is the fact that the Pirates get away with their yearly fire sales... and the Commish does nothing...
 
The only thing that pisses me off is that people made millions by cheating and politicians (who do the same thing) were the ones to help stop it. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is.

The only thing I can think of that is somewhat positive is that people may be less apt to put athletes on the ridiculous pedestals they used to. I mean, appreciation is one thing, but the expection of athletes being role models should be dead now.

While the names shouldn't have been released at all, they may as well name all of them instead of a name here and there. That's as stupid as anything in this whole fiasco.
 
But wait......Barry Bonds was the only person who cheated right?

Ortiz said ban em' for a year....ban him.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']The funny thing is that it's not really cheating.. Steroid testing wasn't really taking place and being recognized as a problem until 2006.. I think the biggest travesty in baseball is the fact that the Pirates get away with their yearly fire sales... and the Commish does nothing...[/QUOTE]

i was waiting for you to chime in this thread about the Pirates fire sale. The pirates could've had a menacing team if they actually kept their players. I think what from 03 till now...they have stars at every position and even on the pitching staff. Man, Its like they dont want to win.

[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Baseball as a whole...every, single team, championship, record, whatever...for the last 20 or so years is completely tainted. And it's a shame, especially for those players that didn't cheat, but who will always have that cloud over their head, anyway. There will always be that small amount of doubt in your head...did he do it, too?[/QUOTE]

QFT

they just need to say all the names on the list and get on with it. How do these names get leaked from a list and how legit are the findings because if they have the list, than they need to release it full instead of chucking a name and a name there. i feel like the daily news has the list and to gain readers and subs they just release a big name off that list and go on until they run out. why doesnt MLB just get the list and release it and get on with it. im getting sick and tired of these steroid stories.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']This isn't about the Yankees. This is about the Red Sox who cheated and won 2 World Series with a whole roster of cheaters in 2004 and 2007. Both of your recent championships are TAINTED. 91 Years and counting between a legit Championship.[/QUOTE]

Okay, if Championships are tainted now, let's include the 4 the Yanks won in a row because of Clemens and crew.

Face facts: Everyone cheated. You can't say one Championship was tainted and others aren't because every team had a cheater or two.
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']i was waiting for you to chime in this thread about the Pirates fire sale. The pirates could've had a menacing team if they actually kept their players. I think what from 03 till now...they have stars at every position and even on the pitching staff. Man, Its like they dont want to win.
[/QUOTE]


It is so frustrating watching baseball and seeing this.. and people in Pgh still go to the games. I don't get it.. There are three kinds of Pirates fans here in Pgh. There are the die hards, who think these moves the past 6-8 yrs are helping the overall progress of the team. There are the apologists, who make excuses why the Pirates have to make these moves. Then there are fans like me who basically are realists and know that the Pirates won't ever be good again until they get ew ownership.

This is all on the Nuttings..
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Black eye for baseball? Yes. The biggest black eye? Nope. We're all just secretly waiting for one name to drop and that name is Albert Pujols.[/QUOTE]

I truely hope THAT never happens. I'm biased by being a die-hard Cards fan...but it would be a knock out blow for Pujols to become tainted. He is such a positive boon for baseball. I grew up loving baseball and was a huge McGwire fan from the begining. I remember how magical the '98 home run race was and was looking forward to getting to see McGwire inducted to the HOF....I actually had tears in my eyes watching that congress witch hunt.
If there is any justice in this world...Pujols is clean. I don't know if my love of baseball can survive another one of my heroes of the game being totally torn apart again. Please Pujols....help us turn the page. Please don't be tainted.
 
[quote name='Chitown021']It could be a photo finish in the central this year. The Cubs and the Cards seem to have caught fire at the same time. It's kinda sickening to see DeRosa in a Cardinals uniform. Ditching Marquis, Wood, and DeRosa to clear salary for Bradley has not turned out to be such a good move.[/QUOTE]

I agree....its going to be a wild and fun race to watch. Bradley seems like one of those wedges your team apart. He seems like such a punk. As for Marquis...it made me sick seeing him on the Cubs and now he pisses me off doing so good for the Rockies. That guy sure didn't pitch like that when WE had him.

After watching the last couple games on this home stand, Im hoping that all of the cheering for Lugo, DeRosa and expecially Holliday that they will see how welcoming the Cards fans are and they will sign with them....but thats later. Im still holding out hope that the Cards get another pitcher before the deadline today....and even better if somehow that pitchers name was Halliday (I can dream, right?)
 
[quote name='DJSteel']The funny thing is that it's not really cheating.. Steroid testing wasn't really taking place and being recognized as a problem until 2006..[/QUOTE]

Well, "cheating" or not, the way they were obtaining and using steroids was illegal. So, they might not have been breaking any baseball rules, but they were committing crimes. And it wasn't recognized as a problem, because everyone involved decided to turn a blind eye, because that big era of offensive was helping revive the game after the strike.

[quote name='ph33r m3']But wait......Barry Bonds was the only person who cheated right?[/QUOTE]

The reason Barry Bonds got the most flack is two-fold.

First, he is one of the biggest assholes in the history of the game. And to make matters worse, he had no issue publicly displaying how big of an asshole he is. He disrespected Babe Ruth ("don't talk about him no more"). He disrespected the Hall of Fame ("I take care of me"). All in all, he's a jackass with little respect for the game that made him.

And of course, the other reason is because he holds so many important records. Nobody is gonna write articles about Jason Grimsley's steroid use, because no one cares. Did he play roles on good teams? Sure. But he's not Barry Bonds. He didn't change the game.
 
i agree ..
signature_damoo.jpg
 
appears that redsox have aquired martinez from the indians for masterson and Hagadone. Taken from the live blog of the trade deadline on yahoo sports.
 
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Of course Barry's going to get shit, just like people think badly of McGwire now. Bonds holds the most storied record in baseball.

[quote name='ryanbph']appears that redsox have aquired martinez from the indians for buckholtz and Hagadone. Taken from the live blog of the trade deadline on yahoo sports.[/QUOTE]
I don't get that trade. Am I overvaluing Buckholtz or do ya'll just really need Martinez?
 
Buchholz was not part of the Martinez trade. Its rumored to be Hagadone, Masterson, and Price. It would be interesting to expand the deal and somehow get Sizemore or Peralta. http://www.nesn.com/2009/07/report-red-sox-close-to-acquiring-indians-martinez.html

Yankees get Hairston Jr from Reds.

Edit: Somewhere is reporting the Red Sox would get Casey Kotchman in return for LaRoche. That would be a nice return. http://www.nesn.com/2009/07/red-sox-adam-laroche-traded-to-braves-for-casey-kotchman.html
 
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Kotchman has to be involved in another deal, they have as little use for him as they did LaRoche with Victor Martinez coming in.

Why did the Braves do that though?


Scott Rolen to the Reds?
 
It's obvious that signing Hafner and Wood to ten million dollar contracts were both mistakes but now we have to wait another two years to have a shot at the World Series? *sigh* It's depressing.
 
Would you eat Vernon Wells's contract in a deal for Halladay if Toronto took J.D. Drew?

Drew: .250 12HR 40RBI .821 OPS
2009: $14m
2010: $14m
2011 :$14m

Wells: .256 10HR 39RBI .706 OPS
2009: $1.5m
2010: $12.5m
2011: $23m
2012: $21m
2013: $21m
2014: $21m


I didn't realize that Vernon Wells's contract was so backloaded, no wonder they're in such a hurry to dump him. I'm not sure if I'd take Wells and Halladay for nothing. The Sox have money but they're not the Yankees.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Kotchman has to be involved in another deal, they have as little use for him as they did LaRoche with Victor Martinez coming in.

Why did the Braves do that though?


Scott Rolen to the Reds?[/QUOTE]

Not excited about the Rolens deal. The Red sent Edwin and a spec for him, who was rumored to be Yonder Alonso, Reds 2008 1st.
 
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I would take the wells contract (assuming we can't get out of the jd contract, the sox had an out clause based on games played after a couple of seasons).

He has historically crushed the ball in fenway. It is possible he could rejuvenate his career playing in fenway much like lowell has. He also could bat 8th or so in a sox lineup and have no pressure on him
 
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