ANALYSIS: The “Disastrous” Xbox 360?
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Dr Mario Kart
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losing money is the new making money
terribledeli
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I do find it funny that SCEA's PR department had to forward it to Next Gen.
The analyst assumes that Microsoft is using the Xbox as a way to turn a profit, which I don't think it was ever the number one goal. The Xbox platform is just a Trojan Horse in an attempt for Microsoft to swallow even more of your entertainment market. Thats the sole reason we still have an Xbox platform. What company, even a multi-billion dollar one, decides to keep a weak limb alive? Unless there's another motive for that limb (In this case, sneaking into your wallet and taking out a $20 bill while you sleep)
The analyst assumes that Microsoft is using the Xbox as a way to turn a profit, which I don't think it was ever the number one goal. The Xbox platform is just a Trojan Horse in an attempt for Microsoft to swallow even more of your entertainment market. Thats the sole reason we still have an Xbox platform. What company, even a multi-billion dollar one, decides to keep a weak limb alive? Unless there's another motive for that limb (In this case, sneaking into your wallet and taking out a $20 bill while you sleep)
[quote name='terribledeli']I do find it funny that SCEA's PR department had to forward it to Next Gen.
The analyst assumes that Microsoft is using the Xbox as a way to turn a profit, which I don't think it was ever the number one goal. The Xbox platform is just a Trojan Horse in an attempt for Microsoft to swallow even more of your entertainment market. Thats the sole reason we still have an Xbox platform. What company, even a multi-billion dollar one, decides to keep a weak limb alive? Unless there's another motive for that limb (In this case, sneaking into your wallet and taking out a $20 bill while you sleep)[/quote]
I agree. Its a way for Microsoft to keep a foothold in your living room and stop Sony from dominating.
The analyst assumes that Microsoft is using the Xbox as a way to turn a profit, which I don't think it was ever the number one goal. The Xbox platform is just a Trojan Horse in an attempt for Microsoft to swallow even more of your entertainment market. Thats the sole reason we still have an Xbox platform. What company, even a multi-billion dollar one, decides to keep a weak limb alive? Unless there's another motive for that limb (In this case, sneaking into your wallet and taking out a $20 bill while you sleep)[/quote]
I agree. Its a way for Microsoft to keep a foothold in your living room and stop Sony from dominating.
[quote name='Graystone']Sony, and M$ are like two animals trying to outdo each other for the right to mate with the last female. They are doing everything to win the market even if it means losing money.[/QUOTE]
And along comes Nintendo and sweep the lady off her feet . . . the orges keep fighting.
If only Nintendo can pump out some compelling software (where's Mario and Pikmin?)
And along comes Nintendo and sweep the lady off her feet . . . the orges keep fighting.
If only Nintendo can pump out some compelling software (where's Mario and Pikmin?)
Trancendental
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[quote name='Graystone']Sony, and M$ are like two animals trying to outdo each other for the right to mate with the last female. They are doing everything to win the market even if it means losing money.[/quote]
:lol: Hilarious analogy!
:lol: Hilarious analogy!
Trancendental
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[quote name='Graystone']Sony, and M$ are like two animals trying to outdo each other for the right to mate with the last female. They are doing everything to win the market even if it means losing money.[/quote]
:lol: Hilarious analogy!
:lol: Hilarious analogy!
Bad for Microsoft? Maybe. The ANALYST (!!) who wrote that seems to be missing a few things, but whatever.
For a system that is supposedly swallowing money "on paper," it has given me more great games in the first year and a half than almost any other system I've owned. I don't care about Microsoft as long as I'm entertained.
For a system that is supposedly swallowing money "on paper," it has given me more great games in the first year and a half than almost any other system I've owned. I don't care about Microsoft as long as I'm entertained.
Bad for Microsoft? Maybe. The ANALYST (!!) who wrote that seems to be missing a few things, but whatever.
For a system that is supposedly swallowing money "on paper," it has given me more great games in the first year and a half than almost any other system I've owned. I don't care about Microsoft as long as I'm entertained.
For a system that is supposedly swallowing money "on paper," it has given me more great games in the first year and a half than almost any other system I've owned. I don't care about Microsoft as long as I'm entertained.
rodeojones903
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A company will not take a project that does not create shareholder wealth unless they have no choice. The question is does it create shareholder wealth, and if not MS must have thought they had no choice to do this or they would lose even more in the long run.
lordxixor101
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[quote name='rodeojones903']A company will not take a project that does not create shareholder wealth unless they have no choice. The question is does it create shareholder wealth, and if not MS must have thought they had no choice to do this or they would lose even more in the long run.[/QUOTE]
Rodeo, it goes even deeper than that. Any publically owned company has a fiscal responsibility (read that technically, you can be sued if you don't do it) to only take on projects that make money. So, MS will eventually get pressure from shareholders to drop the videogame line if there isn't money to be made. Personally, I don't own MS stock, so I could care less if MS makes money. But, right now, the 360 is my favorite system (I think XBLA is finally coming through and giving us games like JetPak refuleled that would never have been produced before). But, MS has to make a compelling case that this is worthwhile to its shareholders to keep it going.
Rodeo, it goes even deeper than that. Any publically owned company has a fiscal responsibility (read that technically, you can be sued if you don't do it) to only take on projects that make money. So, MS will eventually get pressure from shareholders to drop the videogame line if there isn't money to be made. Personally, I don't own MS stock, so I could care less if MS makes money. But, right now, the 360 is my favorite system (I think XBLA is finally coming through and giving us games like JetPak refuleled that would never have been produced before). But, MS has to make a compelling case that this is worthwhile to its shareholders to keep it going.
[quote name='tartarm']By wii, you mean $$ because both the PS3 and XBox 360 lose money on each unit sold.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and knowing the company you support is making a larger profit than others more than makes up for having next to no worthwhile games available, doesn't it?
Yes, and knowing the company you support is making a larger profit than others more than makes up for having next to no worthwhile games available, doesn't it?
terribledeli
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I think the case has already been made, behind closed doors. If you follow the Xbox platform's history, it went from basically three nerds in a basement to one of Microsoft's major projects. But why? The console was losing money from day one. As Cheapy spelled out, Microsoft was afraid that your Sony such-and-such was going to become your source for entertainment (and eventually living in general) instead of Microsoft's such-and-such becoming that source. So they found a backdoor in video games and ran with it.
When it became clear to Microsoft that they had a viable commodity on their hands (I'd place this around mid 2001), everything shifted. Gone was the nerds, in came in the big guns. I imagine they sold it to shareholders as a long-term investment that will result in them taking control of damn near every aspect of your house. Did anyone else watch Microsoft's CES presentation? Any bets the touch screen kitchen will eventually be able to be controlled using a controller? The same one you use to nagivate that fancy Microsoft top box that controls your all your entertainment needs? The same controller that locks your doors at night? All powered by Microsoft's latest OS?
All tin foil hat, conspiracy theories aside, the Xbox platform is the quickest way for Microsoft to jump from stuffy PC programs to controlling your entertainment. Even if the company takes a loss for years, you know damn well Bill Gates is smiling when someone on TV says "I wanted to save up for an Xbox game" instead of "I wanted to save up for a Playstation game"
When it became clear to Microsoft that they had a viable commodity on their hands (I'd place this around mid 2001), everything shifted. Gone was the nerds, in came in the big guns. I imagine they sold it to shareholders as a long-term investment that will result in them taking control of damn near every aspect of your house. Did anyone else watch Microsoft's CES presentation? Any bets the touch screen kitchen will eventually be able to be controlled using a controller? The same one you use to nagivate that fancy Microsoft top box that controls your all your entertainment needs? The same controller that locks your doors at night? All powered by Microsoft's latest OS?
All tin foil hat, conspiracy theories aside, the Xbox platform is the quickest way for Microsoft to jump from stuffy PC programs to controlling your entertainment. Even if the company takes a loss for years, you know damn well Bill Gates is smiling when someone on TV says "I wanted to save up for an Xbox game" instead of "I wanted to save up for a Playstation game"
The article is saying that the 360 will lose 3rd party support because of its weak sales in Japan but that's simply not what we're seeing right now. Developers are starting to see that a game can be successful and sell on a platform even if that platform isn't strong in Japan.
[quote name='CheapyD']I agree. Its a way for Microsoft to keep a foothold in your living room and stop Sony from dominating.[/quote]So, in reality, Microsoft should get federal funding because they are now, in essence, stopping a monopoly from taking place!
It's like bizzaro-world Anti-Trust.
I do wonder how long they'll keep at the Xbox. My guess is that, since they have pockets far deeper than Sony, they'll keep doing it until they wipe out the Playstation or it becomes clear they won't ever be able to do that.
It's like bizzaro-world Anti-Trust.
I do wonder how long they'll keep at the Xbox. My guess is that, since they have pockets far deeper than Sony, they'll keep doing it until they wipe out the Playstation or it becomes clear they won't ever be able to do that.
Indiana
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[quote name='cleaver']Microsoft Games has lost $4 billion dollars since the XBox launch according to an MSNBC video game doc I watched last night
Also, I learned Steve Jobs designed Breakout and Activision was the first third party.[/QUOTE]
You must be a young wipper snapper.
If you want a good read of video game history pick up The Ultimate History of Video Games by Steven Kent.
It was a good read about the history of Atari, Sega, and Nintendo mostly.
Also, I learned Steve Jobs designed Breakout and Activision was the first third party.[/QUOTE]
You must be a young wipper snapper.
If you want a good read of video game history pick up The Ultimate History of Video Games by Steven Kent.
It was a good read about the history of Atari, Sega, and Nintendo mostly.
A Happy Panda
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[quote name='KaneRobot']Bad for Microsoft? Maybe. The ANALYST (!!) who wrote that seems to be missing a few things, but whatever.
For a system that is supposedly swallowing money "on paper," it has given me more great games in the first year and a half than almost any other system I've owned. I don't care about Microsoft as long as I'm entertained.[/QUOTE]
Lol. That's what I was thinking. I went from owning only 2 games for the Xbox 1 (Halo 1 and Halo 2 literally).....ever to becoming a big big 360 fan, I love that console. I'm just glad even though MS is losing money, they refuse to back down.
For a system that is supposedly swallowing money "on paper," it has given me more great games in the first year and a half than almost any other system I've owned. I don't care about Microsoft as long as I'm entertained.[/QUOTE]
Lol. That's what I was thinking. I went from owning only 2 games for the Xbox 1 (Halo 1 and Halo 2 literally).....ever to becoming a big big 360 fan, I love that console. I'm just glad even though MS is losing money, they refuse to back down.
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']losing money is the new making money[/quote]
What do you mean "new" making money?
This was hot back in the late 90's - or don't you remember the dotcom (dotbomb) boom?
It was en vogue to just come up with some ridiculous 'business plan' of selling some item online, or just making up a website, then getting a bunch of venture capitalists to hand you tens of millions of dollars, then going public. All while posting 0 profit or worse, tens of millions in losses.
What do you mean "new" making money?
This was hot back in the late 90's - or don't you remember the dotcom (dotbomb) boom?
It was en vogue to just come up with some ridiculous 'business plan' of selling some item online, or just making up a website, then getting a bunch of venture capitalists to hand you tens of millions of dollars, then going public. All while posting 0 profit or worse, tens of millions in losses.
[quote name='Indiana']You must be a young wipper snapper.
If you want a good read of video game history pick up The Ultimate History of Video Games by Steven Kent.
It was a good read about the history of Atari, Sega, and Nintendo mostly.[/quote]
QFT. Reading about the birth of the industry, arcades, and home consoles tends to be quite interesting, especially with a few of the controversies therein and the huge market collapse in the 80's.
After reading all of that it made far more sense why I had such a large Atari 2600 library as a kid. I didn't realize way, way back when my dad picked up Breakout and two paddle controllers because it looked interesting from K-B Toys. Before the crash that would have cost a pretty penny...afterwards, however, not so much.
Those were some great days, though. Fascinating history overall.
If you want a good read of video game history pick up The Ultimate History of Video Games by Steven Kent.
It was a good read about the history of Atari, Sega, and Nintendo mostly.[/quote]
QFT. Reading about the birth of the industry, arcades, and home consoles tends to be quite interesting, especially with a few of the controversies therein and the huge market collapse in the 80's.
After reading all of that it made far more sense why I had such a large Atari 2600 library as a kid. I didn't realize way, way back when my dad picked up Breakout and two paddle controllers because it looked interesting from K-B Toys. Before the crash that would have cost a pretty penny...afterwards, however, not so much.
Those were some great days, though. Fascinating history overall.
-Never4ever-
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Oh yeah, another console war topic, just what we needed.
[quote name='Kapwanil']QFT. Reading about the birth of the industry, arcades, and home consoles tends to be quite interesting, especially with a few of the controversies therein and the huge market collapse in the 80's.[/QUOTE]
On a related note, "Opening the XBox" by Dean Takahashi was quite good. An interesting look at the thought process that went into bringing the first XBox from conception to market. The sequel "XBox 360 Uncloaked" isn't as good, mostly due to the fact that it apparently didn't use a decent editor (several instances of stuff being repeated only a chapter apart), but it should be read as well because it addresses the first XBox being a money pit and delves into the same concept-to-market time period for the 360.
On a related note, "Opening the XBox" by Dean Takahashi was quite good. An interesting look at the thought process that went into bringing the first XBox from conception to market. The sequel "XBox 360 Uncloaked" isn't as good, mostly due to the fact that it apparently didn't use a decent editor (several instances of stuff being repeated only a chapter apart), but it should be read as well because it addresses the first XBox being a money pit and delves into the same concept-to-market time period for the 360.
[quote name='Kapwanil']QFT. Reading about the birth of the industry, arcades, and home consoles tends to be quite interesting, especially with a few of the controversies therein and the huge market collapse in the 80's.[/QUOTE]
On a related note, "Opening the XBox" by Dean Takahashi was quite good. An interesting look at the thought process that went into bringing the first XBox from conception to market. The sequel "XBox 360 Uncloaked" isn't as good, mostly due to the fact that it apparently didn't use a decent editor (several instances of stuff being repeated only a chapter apart), but it should be read as well because it addresses the first XBox being a money pit and delves into the same concept-to-market time period for the 360.
On a related note, "Opening the XBox" by Dean Takahashi was quite good. An interesting look at the thought process that went into bringing the first XBox from conception to market. The sequel "XBox 360 Uncloaked" isn't as good, mostly due to the fact that it apparently didn't use a decent editor (several instances of stuff being repeated only a chapter apart), but it should be read as well because it addresses the first XBox being a money pit and delves into the same concept-to-market time period for the 360.
Pylis
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[quote name='TimPV3']How much money is being lost on each 360 consoles right now? I was in EB, and some douchebag came in praising the 360, and how MS makes $50 on every system now, and are almost out of the red. I'd just like to have something for the next visit.[/QUOTE]
If memory serves, MS is making money on every system now. It's a natural progression: technology improves making the parts cheaper to manufacture. Microsoft is certainly not "almost out of the red," but things are looking up. It'll be years before they can overcome the amount of money they've lost on the XBox projects, though.
If memory serves, MS is making money on every system now. It's a natural progression: technology improves making the parts cheaper to manufacture. Microsoft is certainly not "almost out of the red," but things are looking up. It'll be years before they can overcome the amount of money they've lost on the XBox projects, though.
The 360 never will get a real foothold in the living room until they:
1) Quiet it down. I tried to use one as a media extender for a couple of months and it was just too damned loud to be part of my entertainment setup. People don't want to have to turn up their music so they can hear over their stereo's fans.
2) Get some better content on XBL marketplace. I *wanted* to buy a t.v. show or 2 but there was absolutely nothing that appealed to me.
Well, that and the fact that MS still can't design a UI to save their lives... I sold the 360 and went with a mac mini as my media extender. I've never been happier with my media set up.
1) Quiet it down. I tried to use one as a media extender for a couple of months and it was just too damned loud to be part of my entertainment setup. People don't want to have to turn up their music so they can hear over their stereo's fans.
2) Get some better content on XBL marketplace. I *wanted* to buy a t.v. show or 2 but there was absolutely nothing that appealed to me.
Well, that and the fact that MS still can't design a UI to save their lives... I sold the 360 and went with a mac mini as my media extender. I've never been happier with my media set up.
hiccupleftovers
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[quote name='A Happy Panda']Lol. That's what I was thinking. I went from owning only 2 games for the Xbox 1 (Halo 1 and Halo 2 literally).....ever to becoming a big big 360 fan, I love that console. I'm just glad even though MS is losing money, they refuse to back down.[/quote]
I'm with you on that front. I had the original Xbox and hardly ever used it and mainly played it for KOTOR, Halo at first (never really cared for the series, very overrated), and some other nich naches (sp) on the system.
now the 360 on the other hand is now my number one system thanks to the games and live. I love jumping on Live and throwing a couple matches down or chatting with some of my friends. That's truly where Microsoft has seen its vision and where it's captured the entertainment/home market. If they can expand on what they've done with Live, then they truly will have a huge moneymaker on their hands. And their connectivity to MSN now is brilliant. The rest of the world pretty much relies solely on MSN, while us Americans still try to struggle and live with AIM and the countless modification and other AIM applications out there. Personally, I actually prefer MSN overall. So basically now to get the world setup on MSN, which will then lead to them using live.com (another loss leader for MSFT, but has a better image search than Google's and is coming along briskly in their regular search market)... and so now they'll be able to make in roads into online advertising. personally, if I was a stock analyst, then I'd say MSFT definitely has a goal or a vision for itself down the line so I wouldn't be afraid of them losing money on their Game division. They clearly know where it's going for them, same with apple. That's why Apple has switched its main focus from OSes and computers to music products and soon to be in the cell phone business..
I'm with you on that front. I had the original Xbox and hardly ever used it and mainly played it for KOTOR, Halo at first (never really cared for the series, very overrated), and some other nich naches (sp) on the system.
now the 360 on the other hand is now my number one system thanks to the games and live. I love jumping on Live and throwing a couple matches down or chatting with some of my friends. That's truly where Microsoft has seen its vision and where it's captured the entertainment/home market. If they can expand on what they've done with Live, then they truly will have a huge moneymaker on their hands. And their connectivity to MSN now is brilliant. The rest of the world pretty much relies solely on MSN, while us Americans still try to struggle and live with AIM and the countless modification and other AIM applications out there. Personally, I actually prefer MSN overall. So basically now to get the world setup on MSN, which will then lead to them using live.com (another loss leader for MSFT, but has a better image search than Google's and is coming along briskly in their regular search market)... and so now they'll be able to make in roads into online advertising. personally, if I was a stock analyst, then I'd say MSFT definitely has a goal or a vision for itself down the line so I wouldn't be afraid of them losing money on their Game division. They clearly know where it's going for them, same with apple. That's why Apple has switched its main focus from OSes and computers to music products and soon to be in the cell phone business..
omgu8myrice
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[quote name='torifile']The 360 never will get a real foothold in the living room until they:
2) Get some better content on XBL marketplace. I *wanted* to buy a t.v. show or 2 but there was absolutely nothing that appealed to me.
[/quote]
well its a step in the right direction, and its better than any other console out there.
2) Get some better content on XBL marketplace. I *wanted* to buy a t.v. show or 2 but there was absolutely nothing that appealed to me.
[/quote]
well its a step in the right direction, and its better than any other console out there.
[quote name='omgu8myrice']well its a step in the right direction, and its better than any other console out there.[/QUOTE]
Not good enough if MS wants to make the living room its domain. Apple's got it right right now. They're the team to beat, not Sony.
Not good enough if MS wants to make the living room its domain. Apple's got it right right now. They're the team to beat, not Sony.
A Happy Panda
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[quote name='torifile']Not good enough if MS wants to make the living room its domain. Apple's got it right right now. They're the team to beat, not Sony.[/QUOTE]
Roffle @ you. With what? Apple TV? Bahahaha.
I WILL say this though. Apple has made a step in the right direction. But like you said about MS. Not good enough.
Roffle @ you. With what? Apple TV? Bahahaha.
I WILL say this though. Apple has made a step in the right direction. But like you said about MS. Not good enough.
jollydwarf
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Analysts don't know shit. CAG should have a rule against posting anything by a ing "analyst."
Seriously.
in'-A, man. Where did these guys come from in the last two years, and how soon can they go back??
STOP
GIVING
THEM
PRESS.
PLEASE.
EDIT: How much money is being lost on each 360 consoles right now? I was in EB, and some douchebag came in praising the 360, and how MS makes $50 on every system now, and are almost out of the red. I'd just like to have something for the next visit.
You tell 'em! You go in there, and you show 'em how it is! You play right into that bickering EB customer/environment stigmatization!
Seriously.
in'-A, man. Where did these guys come from in the last two years, and how soon can they go back??STOP
GIVING
THEM
PRESS.
PLEASE.
EDIT: How much money is being lost on each 360 consoles right now? I was in EB, and some douchebag came in praising the 360, and how MS makes $50 on every system now, and are almost out of the red. I'd just like to have something for the next visit.
You tell 'em! You go in there, and you show 'em how it is! You play right into that bickering EB customer/environment stigmatization!
[quote name='A Happy Panda']Roffle @ you. With what? Apple TV? Bahahaha.
I WILL say this though. Apple has made a step in the right direction. But like you said about MS. Not good enough.[/QUOTE]
Not with the hardware, with the store. Like I said, I've got a mac mini running my home theater. HDMI, optical audio. It's great. But it would work with the iPod or AppleTV just as well.
And, guess what? I've got *real* content to go on my media center, not the crap that XBL has on it. How many episodes of TNA Impact can one watch?
All I'm saying is that MS's foray into being a media center is awful. Better than Sony's, perhaps, but they're not going to win over any living rooms on the strength of their media capabilities. (Keep in mind the major reason people cite the 360 as being better than the PS3: the content on the system. The same logic should be applied when talking about media centers. MS is WAY WAY behind here. And if they're planning on making in-roads, they've got a long way to go.)
I WILL say this though. Apple has made a step in the right direction. But like you said about MS. Not good enough.[/QUOTE]
Not with the hardware, with the store. Like I said, I've got a mac mini running my home theater. HDMI, optical audio. It's great. But it would work with the iPod or AppleTV just as well.
And, guess what? I've got *real* content to go on my media center, not the crap that XBL has on it. How many episodes of TNA Impact can one watch?
All I'm saying is that MS's foray into being a media center is awful. Better than Sony's, perhaps, but they're not going to win over any living rooms on the strength of their media capabilities. (Keep in mind the major reason people cite the 360 as being better than the PS3: the content on the system. The same logic should be applied when talking about media centers. MS is WAY WAY behind here. And if they're planning on making in-roads, they've got a long way to go.)
[quote name='jollydwarf']Analysts don't know shit. CAG should have a rule against posting anything by a ing "analyst."
Seriously.in'-A, man. Where did these guys come from in the last two years, and how soon can they go back??
STOP
GIVING
THEM
PRESS.
PLEASE.
EDIT: How much money is being lost on each 360 consoles right now? I was in EB, and some douchebag came in praising the 360, and how MS makes $50 on every system now, and are almost out of the red. I'd just like to have something for the next visit.
You tell 'em! You go in there, and you show 'em how it is! You play right into that bickering EB customer/environment stigmatization![/QUOTE]
Believe it or not, analysts are actually pretty good at, ummm, analyzing things. They get paid in the six figures (some more than that) for a reason. I hate 'em with a passion because they often hate on AAPL, but they have a tendency to be right in the long term.
Seriously.
in'-A, man. Where did these guys come from in the last two years, and how soon can they go back??STOP
GIVING
THEM
PRESS.
PLEASE.
EDIT: How much money is being lost on each 360 consoles right now? I was in EB, and some douchebag came in praising the 360, and how MS makes $50 on every system now, and are almost out of the red. I'd just like to have something for the next visit.
You tell 'em! You go in there, and you show 'em how it is! You play right into that bickering EB customer/environment stigmatization![/QUOTE]
Believe it or not, analysts are actually pretty good at, ummm, analyzing things. They get paid in the six figures (some more than that) for a reason. I hate 'em with a passion because they often hate on AAPL, but they have a tendency to be right in the long term.
Michaellvortega
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[quote name='torifile']Not with the hardware, with the store. Like I said, I've got a mac mini running my home theater. HDMI, optical audio. It's great. But it would work with the iPod or AppleTV just as well.
And, guess what? I've got *real* content to go on my media center, not the crap that XBL has on it. How many episodes of TNA Impact can one watch?
All I'm saying is that MS's foray into being a media center is awful. Better than Sony's, perhaps, but they're not going to win over any living rooms on the strength of their media capabilities. (Keep in mind the major reason people cite the 360 as being better than the PS3: the content on the system. The same logic should be applied when talking about media centers. MS is WAY WAY behind here. And if they're planning on making in-roads, they've got a long way to go.)[/QUOTE]
Guess what?
Your in the minority as a Apple user.
Your in a even smaller minority using a Apple computer to watch content on your TV
Saying "MS's foray into being a media center is awful" is like saying Apple has all the hot software and MS has a long way to go.
Really you have REAL content that only your Mac can provide? REALLY? From what, the Itunes Store? Anything you can watch on your Mac can be viewed on a Xbox 360 in almost the same exact way.
And, guess what? I've got *real* content to go on my media center, not the crap that XBL has on it. How many episodes of TNA Impact can one watch?
All I'm saying is that MS's foray into being a media center is awful. Better than Sony's, perhaps, but they're not going to win over any living rooms on the strength of their media capabilities. (Keep in mind the major reason people cite the 360 as being better than the PS3: the content on the system. The same logic should be applied when talking about media centers. MS is WAY WAY behind here. And if they're planning on making in-roads, they've got a long way to go.)[/QUOTE]
Guess what?
Your in the minority as a Apple user.
Your in a even smaller minority using a Apple computer to watch content on your TV
Saying "MS's foray into being a media center is awful" is like saying Apple has all the hot software and MS has a long way to go.
Really you have REAL content that only your Mac can provide? REALLY? From what, the Itunes Store? Anything you can watch on your Mac can be viewed on a Xbox 360 in almost the same exact way.
Mechafenris
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[quote name='Michaellvortega']Guess what?
Your in the minority as a Apple user.
Your in a even smaller minority using a Apple computer to watch content on your TV
Saying "MS's foray into being a media center is awful" is like saying Apple has all the hot software and MS has a long way to go.
Really you have REAL content that only your Mac can provide? REALLY? From what, the Itunes Store? Anything you can watch on your Mac can be viewed on a Xbox 360 in almost the same exact way.[/QUOTE]
Seriously, I see you hate Apple, but dismissing them out of hand is ignoring what they've accomplished with the iPod/iTunes, and the increasingly popular Mac computer line... like it or not, they're doing something right... and dismissing Apple as "a minority" is done at a company's peril.
Look at Google. Never underestimate an opponent. Microsoft has, and Google's handed Ballmer & Co. their butt. Linux has irritated them to the point of threatening phantom patent infringement (notice they're not pursuing any litigation... who could they sue? Stallman?) and Apple has handed MS a huge turd sandwich to eat by trouncing them in the online music and player market...
The 360 is a bright spot in an otherwise confusing and self-destructive business model. They're losing their cash-cows (in the face of free alternatives) and people are not simply buying what they toss over the fence because it "has the MS logo on it." They're entering a new stage of competition, and because of their previous arrogance, they are approaching the new markets not in the lead anymore.
But if the 360 doesn't become a cash cow for them (dunno if it will, has, or is about to...) it will be an issue with the shareholders.
Sony's doing the same thing... and they are going to have to answer to shareholders as well... It's not a "free to bleed money like a hemophiliac" market anymore.
Your in the minority as a Apple user.
Your in a even smaller minority using a Apple computer to watch content on your TV
Saying "MS's foray into being a media center is awful" is like saying Apple has all the hot software and MS has a long way to go.
Really you have REAL content that only your Mac can provide? REALLY? From what, the Itunes Store? Anything you can watch on your Mac can be viewed on a Xbox 360 in almost the same exact way.[/QUOTE]
Seriously, I see you hate Apple, but dismissing them out of hand is ignoring what they've accomplished with the iPod/iTunes, and the increasingly popular Mac computer line... like it or not, they're doing something right... and dismissing Apple as "a minority" is done at a company's peril.
Look at Google. Never underestimate an opponent. Microsoft has, and Google's handed Ballmer & Co. their butt. Linux has irritated them to the point of threatening phantom patent infringement (notice they're not pursuing any litigation... who could they sue? Stallman?) and Apple has handed MS a huge turd sandwich to eat by trouncing them in the online music and player market...
The 360 is a bright spot in an otherwise confusing and self-destructive business model. They're losing their cash-cows (in the face of free alternatives) and people are not simply buying what they toss over the fence because it "has the MS logo on it." They're entering a new stage of competition, and because of their previous arrogance, they are approaching the new markets not in the lead anymore.
But if the 360 doesn't become a cash cow for them (dunno if it will, has, or is about to...) it will be an issue with the shareholders.
Sony's doing the same thing... and they are going to have to answer to shareholders as well...
It's not a "free to bleed money like a hemophiliac" market anymore.
A Happy Panda
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[quote name='Mechafenris']Seriously, I see you hate Apple, but dismissing them out of hand is ignoring what they've accomplished with the iPod/iTunes, and the increasingly popular Mac computer line... like it or not, they're doing something right... and dismissing Apple as "a minority" is done at a company's peril.
Look at Google. Never underestimate an opponent. Microsoft has, and Google's handed Ballmer & Co. their butt. Linux has irritated them to the point of threatening phantom patent infringement (notice they're not pursuing any litigation... who could they sue? Stallman?) and Apple has handed MS a huge turd sandwich to eat by trouncing them in the online music and player market...
The 360 is a bright spot in an otherwise confusing and self-destructive business model. They're losing their cash-cows (in the face of free alternatives) and people are not simply buying what they toss over the fence because it "has the MS logo on it." They're entering a new stage of competition, and because of their previous arrogance, they are approaching the new markets not in the lead anymore.
But if the 360 doesn't become a cash cow for them (dunno if it will, has, or is about to...) it will be an issue with the shareholders.
Sony's doing the same thing... and they are going to have to answer to shareholders as well... It's not a "free to bleed money like a hemophiliac" market anymore.[/QUOTE]
To Microsoft's defense, it took Apple 4 generations to get where they are with the iPod. If you're even going to try to argue that the iPod was THIS popular BEFORE the 4th generation with the click wheel, I'm just not gonna bother to respond. The Zune is MS' first voyage into the market, and you can't argue that they did a lot of things right. The Wifi connection, the UI, and the large screen are all big big plusses. However I'll concede that the Wifi wasn't out all the way through, but at least it's there. MS is still learning the ropes.
So when you say Apple "trounced" MS in the music player/store market, it's kind of misleading. It's like a veteran boxer beating up on a rookie. Give the Zune more time, maybe even just one more generation, and I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a big bite out of the market.
I'm also not sure what you're referencing when you say Google has handed MS their butts...I'm actually don't know because I don't keep real up to date with this stuff so do enlighten me. I truly hope you're not referring to Google's new set of so called "office" tools.
I also agree with you when you say they're entering a new stage of competition. Apple is indeed becoming more and more of a threat, but I think MS knows this, and I think they're trying to respond; ie. with Vista & the 360 and their media capabilities and the Zune. You're talking as if MS is falling off a cliff, which I just don't agree with.
Look at Google. Never underestimate an opponent. Microsoft has, and Google's handed Ballmer & Co. their butt. Linux has irritated them to the point of threatening phantom patent infringement (notice they're not pursuing any litigation... who could they sue? Stallman?) and Apple has handed MS a huge turd sandwich to eat by trouncing them in the online music and player market...
The 360 is a bright spot in an otherwise confusing and self-destructive business model. They're losing their cash-cows (in the face of free alternatives) and people are not simply buying what they toss over the fence because it "has the MS logo on it." They're entering a new stage of competition, and because of their previous arrogance, they are approaching the new markets not in the lead anymore.
But if the 360 doesn't become a cash cow for them (dunno if it will, has, or is about to...) it will be an issue with the shareholders.
Sony's doing the same thing... and they are going to have to answer to shareholders as well...
It's not a "free to bleed money like a hemophiliac" market anymore.[/QUOTE]To Microsoft's defense, it took Apple 4 generations to get where they are with the iPod. If you're even going to try to argue that the iPod was THIS popular BEFORE the 4th generation with the click wheel, I'm just not gonna bother to respond. The Zune is MS' first voyage into the market, and you can't argue that they did a lot of things right. The Wifi connection, the UI, and the large screen are all big big plusses. However I'll concede that the Wifi wasn't out all the way through, but at least it's there. MS is still learning the ropes.
So when you say Apple "trounced" MS in the music player/store market, it's kind of misleading. It's like a veteran boxer beating up on a rookie. Give the Zune more time, maybe even just one more generation, and I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a big bite out of the market.
I'm also not sure what you're referencing when you say Google has handed MS their butts...I'm actually don't know because I don't keep real up to date with this stuff so do enlighten me. I truly hope you're not referring to Google's new set of so called "office" tools.
I also agree with you when you say they're entering a new stage of competition. Apple is indeed becoming more and more of a threat, but I think MS knows this, and I think they're trying to respond; ie. with Vista & the 360 and their media capabilities and the Zune. You're talking as if MS is falling off a cliff, which I just don't agree with.
integralsmatic
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i can care a rats ass who loses money. as long i get to keep playing great games...ill be happy
Michaellvortega
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[quote name='Mechafenris']Seriously, I see you hate Apple, but dismissing them out of hand is ignoring what they've accomplished with the iPod/iTunes, and the increasingly popular Mac computer line... like it or not, they're doing something right... and dismissing Apple as "a minority" is done at a company's peril.QUOTE]
How can someone hate a company? Is Apple Inc a branch of Umbrella corp now? Do they threaten the world with a Tvirus outbreak at any moment?
MS will not fold on the Xbox brand, why should they? Should Apple fold because the have a single digit percentage of the PC market?
[quote name='integralsmatic']i can care a rats ass who loses money. as long i get to keep playing great games...ill be happy[/QUOTE]
QFT take your console/OS wars and shove it.
How can someone hate a company? Is Apple Inc a branch of Umbrella corp now? Do they threaten the world with a Tvirus outbreak at any moment?
MS will not fold on the Xbox brand, why should they? Should Apple fold because the have a single digit percentage of the PC market?
[quote name='integralsmatic']i can care a rats ass who loses money. as long i get to keep playing great games...ill be happy[/QUOTE]
QFT take your console/OS wars and shove it.
Mechafenris
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Michaellvortega'][quote name='Mechafenris']Seriously, I see you hate Apple, but dismissing them out of hand is ignoring what they've accomplished with the iPod/iTunes, and the increasingly popular Mac computer line... like it or not, they're doing something right... and dismissing Apple as "a minority" is done at a company's peril.QUOTE]
How can someone hate a company? Is Apple Inc a branch of Umbrella corp now? Do they threaten the world with a Tvirus outbreak at any moment?
MS will not fold on the Xbox brand, why should they? Should Apple fold because the have a single digit percentage of the PC market?
[/quote]
It was just that your comments about Apple seemed to underscore something more than just observation. Perhaps I'm wrong. Most people who dismiss apple out of hand either hate the brand, or hate the fans... the latter being perfectly understandable. I hate most fanatics about any platform... Apple included. And like I said before, a single digit percentage of the computer market is a specious bit of statistics. I merely disagreed with your conclusions about the Apple TV and iTunes store model... the truth is there isn't as seamless and integration on the MS side... not yet at least... and the XBox live marketplace isn't really cutting it quite yet... comparatively speaking. The way in which your conclusions were presented seemed a little dismissive, and if I read too much into that, I apologize. If my comments about MS and Xbox seem dismissive, that's not their intent... I'm merely observing... I'm not a shareholder in Apple or MS... I want whoever makes the best product to win... not any particular company... (and at the very least win fairly in open competition...)
I truly believe XBox losses will only be tolerated by the shareholders for a certain period of time. IT's not a "burn through the cash that you should be paying in dividends" free card from the shareholders. Either their plan for "living room domination" will come to fruition, or they will have to answer to those pumping cash into their publicly traded company.
I can give a few good reasons why people can choose to hate a company (or have the capacity to do so):
The rootkit fiasco Sony Music pulled. Or perhaps their most recent "broken DVD encryption" batch of coasters. Or perhaps Microsoft's undermining their competition with oppressive OEM licensing deals and other abusive tactics (that they were convicted of in court). Or the use of cheap and slave labor in China to make clothing and charge 200-300% markups for pure profit at the expense of the chinese laborer who barely has enough money to live on. Or perhaps the deforestation of the Amazon for cheap or nearly free lumber to build more mini malls or "fancy" furniture... or at the very worst, more grazing land for cattle that feeds the burger joints...
It's really easy to hate companies... since the law recognizes corporations as "people"... hate is an appropriate term for opposition to their business practices. (This is by no means a comprehensive list, of course.)
Gone are the days of noble business practices (if there ever were any to begin with) and they are replaced with multinational conglomerates that want not only to separate you from your money, but separate you from your freedom and your autonomy. Their desire to create a class of dependents is not exactly comforting... and yet I still buy their shiny things. heh. I don't mean to sound pedantic... because I'm just as guilty as everyone else for feeding the machine, so to speak.
How can someone hate a company? Is Apple Inc a branch of Umbrella corp now? Do they threaten the world with a Tvirus outbreak at any moment?
MS will not fold on the Xbox brand, why should they? Should Apple fold because the have a single digit percentage of the PC market?
[/quote]
It was just that your comments about Apple seemed to underscore something more than just observation. Perhaps I'm wrong. Most people who dismiss apple out of hand either hate the brand, or hate the fans... the latter being perfectly understandable. I hate most fanatics about any platform... Apple included. And like I said before, a single digit percentage of the computer market is a specious bit of statistics. I merely disagreed with your conclusions about the Apple TV and iTunes store model... the truth is there isn't as seamless and integration on the MS side... not yet at least... and the XBox live marketplace isn't really cutting it quite yet... comparatively speaking. The way in which your conclusions were presented seemed a little dismissive, and if I read too much into that, I apologize. If my comments about MS and Xbox seem dismissive, that's not their intent... I'm merely observing... I'm not a shareholder in Apple or MS... I want whoever makes the best product to win... not any particular company... (and at the very least win fairly in open competition...)
I truly believe XBox losses will only be tolerated by the shareholders for a certain period of time. IT's not a "burn through the cash that you should be paying in dividends" free card from the shareholders. Either their plan for "living room domination" will come to fruition, or they will have to answer to those pumping cash into their publicly traded company.
I can give a few good reasons why people can choose to hate a company (or have the capacity to do so):
The rootkit fiasco Sony Music pulled. Or perhaps their most recent "broken DVD encryption" batch of coasters. Or perhaps Microsoft's undermining their competition with oppressive OEM licensing deals and other abusive tactics (that they were convicted of in court). Or the use of cheap and slave labor in China to make clothing and charge 200-300% markups for pure profit at the expense of the chinese laborer who barely has enough money to live on. Or perhaps the deforestation of the Amazon for cheap or nearly free lumber to build more mini malls or "fancy" furniture... or at the very worst, more grazing land for cattle that feeds the burger joints...
It's really easy to hate companies... since the law recognizes corporations as "people"... hate is an appropriate term for opposition to their business practices. (This is by no means a comprehensive list, of course.)
Gone are the days of noble business practices (if there ever were any to begin with) and they are replaced with multinational conglomerates that want not only to separate you from your money, but separate you from your freedom and your autonomy. Their desire to create a class of dependents is not exactly comforting... and yet I still buy their shiny things.
heh. I don't mean to sound pedantic... because I'm just as guilty as everyone else for feeding the machine, so to speak.
jollydwarf
CAGiversary!
Believe it or not, analysts are actually pretty good at, ummm, analyzing things. They get paid in the six figures (some more than that) for a reason.
And ain't that a pisser. (Unless you're clandestinely an "analyst" sticking up for your profession, in which case, well, no apologies here.) The gaming ones, anyway, are more common nowadays than three-red-lights-havin' 360s, and all they seem to collectively do is state that a different console is going to 'win' the 'war' depending on the day of the week.
I'm not the only person totally perplexed and vexed by their recent proliferation, as they all add up to nothing but noise. Half of what I've read in the last year suggests that they're largely suits with financial degrees that couldn't have their finger further from the pulse of gaming trends. Or they can make a completely obvious statement in corporatespeak. Yay.
I also get the impression that just about anyone with a degree and a reasonably articulate opinion can be a self-proclaimed "analyst" of the gaming industry now. It'll get you mocked in a Kotaku blog or two, for your 'fifteen minutes', anyway.
Like I said, STOP GIVING THEM ATTENTION. Then, and only then, maybe we'll see the one or two legit and accurate ones emerge from the field of quacks 'n' hacks.
And ain't that a pisser. (Unless you're clandestinely an "analyst" sticking up for your profession, in which case, well, no apologies here.) The gaming ones, anyway, are more common nowadays than three-red-lights-havin' 360s, and all they seem to collectively do is state that a different console is going to 'win' the 'war' depending on the day of the week.
I'm not the only person totally perplexed and vexed by their recent proliferation, as they all add up to nothing but noise. Half of what I've read in the last year suggests that they're largely suits with financial degrees that couldn't have their finger further from the pulse of gaming trends. Or they can make a completely obvious statement in corporatespeak. Yay.
I also get the impression that just about anyone with a degree and a reasonably articulate opinion can be a self-proclaimed "analyst" of the gaming industry now. It'll get you mocked in a Kotaku blog or two, for your 'fifteen minutes', anyway.
Like I said, STOP GIVING THEM ATTENTION. Then, and only then, maybe we'll see the one or two legit and accurate ones emerge from the field of quacks 'n' hacks.
[quote name='Michaellvortega']Guess what?
Your in the minority as a Apple user.
Your in a even smaller minority using a Apple computer to watch content on your TV
Saying "MS's foray into being a media center is awful" is like saying Apple has all the hot software and MS has a long way to go.
Really you have REAL content that only your Mac can provide? REALLY? From what, the Itunes Store? Anything you can watch on your Mac can be viewed on a Xbox 360 in almost the same exact way.[/quote] What does this have to do with being an Apple user? iTunes works on Windows too. We're not talking OS wars here, we're talking about the media front, where Apple is the new Microsoft (in terms of size). It's not Sony that MS needs to play catch up to. It's Apple. Comparing MS's offerings to what Apple has is embarrassing.
The 360 can do WMV+WMA. Where does one get that combination other than XBL? You can't even download torrents in that format. To watch other formats on the 360 requies transcoding. Going from lossy video format to lossy video format doesn't provide an optimal viewing experience.
Tis doesn't even begin to describe the sheer and utter shit the media players on the 360 are. Ever try to fast forward through a song (nevermind through a video) on the 360? What about increase the volume?
As a media extender the 360 blows. No wifi. Can't store conent on the drive unless you buy it from XBL. Extremely limited codec support. Little legal OR illegal content can be played out of the box. MS can't do entertainment.
Your in the minority as a Apple user.
Your in a even smaller minority using a Apple computer to watch content on your TV
Saying "MS's foray into being a media center is awful" is like saying Apple has all the hot software and MS has a long way to go.
Really you have REAL content that only your Mac can provide? REALLY? From what, the Itunes Store? Anything you can watch on your Mac can be viewed on a Xbox 360 in almost the same exact way.[/quote] What does this have to do with being an Apple user? iTunes works on Windows too. We're not talking OS wars here, we're talking about the media front, where Apple is the new Microsoft (in terms of size). It's not Sony that MS needs to play catch up to. It's Apple. Comparing MS's offerings to what Apple has is embarrassing.
The 360 can do WMV+WMA. Where does one get that combination other than XBL? You can't even download torrents in that format. To watch other formats on the 360 requies transcoding. Going from lossy video format to lossy video format doesn't provide an optimal viewing experience.
Tis doesn't even begin to describe the sheer and utter shit the media players on the 360 are. Ever try to fast forward through a song (nevermind through a video) on the 360? What about increase the volume?
As a media extender the 360 blows. No wifi. Can't store conent on the drive unless you buy it from XBL. Extremely limited codec support. Little legal OR illegal content can be played out of the box. MS can't do entertainment.
Michaellvortega
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How are you getting Apple is the one to beat? The people to beat are the Cable/SAT companies and to some extent the DVD industry.
How can you compare the 360's secondary media extender abilities to that of a Mac Mini? Thats Apple's and Oranges.
IMO "MS can't do entertainment" is just plain wrong.
How can you compare the 360's secondary media extender abilities to that of a Mac Mini? Thats Apple's
and Oranges. IMO "MS can't do entertainment" is just plain wrong.
bread's done