Nirvanaguy777
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Just wondering what you guys though about it, some people say the moon landing was an elaboate hoax, personally I couldnt care less but just for topic sake what do you guys think. The moon landing hoax or reality?
Did we really ever land on the moon?
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I really hope you're kidding here.
You can talk to people who landed on the moon. You can get a staggering amount of information on it. You may even see the flag (not sure if you can see it from earth or if you'd need to orbit around the moon).
Some people say the holocaust never happened. It doesn't make the thirty million murdered any less dead.
You can talk to people who landed on the moon. You can get a staggering amount of information on it. You may even see the flag (not sure if you can see it from earth or if you'd need to orbit around the moon).
Some people say the holocaust never happened. It doesn't make the thirty million murdered any less dead.
basketkase543
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they had a pretty convincing case on the special that aired on fox about three years ago. I remember everyone in my classes were debating it.
Um... 30 million didn't die in the holocaust. The estimate that I usually hear tossed around is 6 million Jewish people dead. I know others were killed in the holocaust, but not 24 million. Total casualties for WWII, now that's another story. I mean the number of Russians that died is around 25 million.
Nirvanaguy777
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I didnt say I dont think it happened I am asking for opinions jesus dude calm down, I dont care about what you all believe I just wanted your views.
Nirvanaguy777
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[quote name='eldad9']I really hope you're kidding here.
You can talk to people who landed on the moon. You can get a staggering amount of information on it. You may even see the flag (not sure if you can see it from earth or if you'd need to orbit around the moon).
Some people say the holocaust never happened. It doesn't make the thirty million murdered any less dead.[/quote]
Yea but fox is notorious for bullshit such as the alien autopsy.
You can talk to people who landed on the moon. You can get a staggering amount of information on it. You may even see the flag (not sure if you can see it from earth or if you'd need to orbit around the moon).
Some people say the holocaust never happened. It doesn't make the thirty million murdered any less dead.[/quote]
Yea but fox is notorious for bullshit such as the alien autopsy.
Nirvanaguy777
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[quote name='Tromack']Um... 30 million didn't die in the holocaust. The estimate that I usually hear tossed around is 6 million Jewish people dead. I know others were killed in the holocaust, but not 24 million. Total casualties for WWII, now that's another story. I mean the number of Russians that died is around 25 million.[/quote]
I would like to keep the holocaust i.e. the biggest blunder of any culture ever out of this topic, it was a horrible tragedy and has nothing too do with the moon landing.
I would like to keep the holocaust i.e. the biggest blunder of any culture ever out of this topic, it was a horrible tragedy and has nothing too do with the moon landing.
Ikohn4ever
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If I remember correctly they mentioned how there was a shadow of the flag, but they said there should not have been a shadow, at least at that angle. I mean there is always the possibility it didnt happen. I think it happened but there is something interesting evidence to go against it.
snotknocker
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I've been to space a few times and I saw the flag.
ex0
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basketkase543
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[quote name='Nirvanaguy777'][quote name='eldad9']I really hope you're kidding here.
You can talk to people who landed on the moon. You can get a staggering amount of information on it. You may even see the flag (not sure if you can see it from earth or if you'd need to orbit around the moon).
Some people say the holocaust never happened. It doesn't make the thirty million murdered any less dead.[/quote]
Yea but fox is notorious for bullshit such as the alien autopsy.[/quote]
Are you telling me that *gasp* Fox is capable of LIES???? Say it ain't so.
You can talk to people who landed on the moon. You can get a staggering amount of information on it. You may even see the flag (not sure if you can see it from earth or if you'd need to orbit around the moon).
Some people say the holocaust never happened. It doesn't make the thirty million murdered any less dead.[/quote]
Yea but fox is notorious for bullshit such as the alien autopsy.[/quote]
Are you telling me that *gasp* Fox is capable of LIES???? Say it ain't so.
No, there is not. There is evidence against anything, but you need to weigh its credibility.
The position that the landing never happened is about as credible as, say, this site:
http://www.timecube.com/
The position that the landing never happened is about as credible as, say, this site:
http://www.timecube.com/
snotknocker
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[quote name='ex0']http://batesmotel.8m.com/[/quote]
Interesting. Extremely good points made.
Interesting. Extremely good points made.
Ericnmel99
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I got that special they ran on cd. .... its actually pretty convincing. It makes you wonder at least.
MrBadExample
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[quote name='ex0']http://batesmotel.8m.com/[/quote]
That site has some pretty shady "evidence" that we never went to the moon. I'm all for a good conspiracy theory but this is ridiculous.
That site has some pretty shady "evidence" that we never went to the moon. I'm all for a good conspiracy theory but this is ridiculous.
There cannot be any real evidence. Please discuss it with one of the people who've been to the moon - unless, of course, you're capable of understanding how it would make them feel.
Oh and BTW, Jesus was a robot. I mean, everybody knows humans can't come back to life, but it's a piece of cake for a robot to shut down and switch on again.
Oh and BTW, Jesus was a robot. I mean, everybody knows humans can't come back to life, but it's a piece of cake for a robot to shut down and switch on again.
ex0
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Do you actually think that someone who has been to the moon, assuming they did, would tell you otherwise? That's sheer stupidity. And there's no reason to get nasty with me, this is after a post aimed towards conflicting arguments.
The only two things you've said in this topic is to ask us to ask someone who has been to the moon and that there is no evidence against the lunar landing. Well I posted evidence, did I not? I'm certainly not going to waste my time tracking down some supposed astronaut just for him to spoon feed me what I already know he'd tell me.
The only two things you've said in this topic is to ask us to ask someone who has been to the moon and that there is no evidence against the lunar landing. Well I posted evidence, did I not? I'm certainly not going to waste my time tracking down some supposed astronaut just for him to spoon feed me what I already know he'd tell me.
jmcc
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For reference: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html
ElwoodCuse
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Look at the amazing blunders and inefficiencies of the U.S. Government. Do you honestly believe that these guys are capable of sucessfully pulling off a hoax so elaborate? Way too many people would have known about it. Oh, and the Bad Astronomy website has the science as well.
MrBadExample
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[quote name='ex0'][quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='ex0']http://batesmotel.8m.com/[/quote]
That site has some pretty shady "evidence" that we never went to the moon. I'm all for a good conspiracy theory but this is ridiculous.[/quote]
Elaborate please
[/quote]
Most of his arguments are about shadows and weird light reflections that could have been caused by anything. The surface of the moon is not perfectly flat so slopes could create different shadow lengths.
As for there not being any stars in the photographs, have you ever tried to look up and see stars when you're in the city? All the lights drown them out. With no atmosphere the moon is very bright so of course you can't see stars.
And he says there couldn't be such well-defined tracks without water - WRONG! Cornstarch packs pretty well dry that's why they use it in candy manufacturing for molds.
Therefore the moon is made of corn starch.
That site has some pretty shady "evidence" that we never went to the moon. I'm all for a good conspiracy theory but this is ridiculous.[/quote]
Elaborate please
[/quote]Most of his arguments are about shadows and weird light reflections that could have been caused by anything. The surface of the moon is not perfectly flat so slopes could create different shadow lengths.
As for there not being any stars in the photographs, have you ever tried to look up and see stars when you're in the city? All the lights drown them out. With no atmosphere the moon is very bright so of course you can't see stars.
And he says there couldn't be such well-defined tracks without water - WRONG! Cornstarch packs pretty well dry that's why they use it in candy manufacturing for molds.
Therefore the moon is made of corn starch.
PittsburghAfterDark
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The moon is made of cheese, not corn starch.
We never went to the moon, didn't you see Tom Hanks' movie on that Apollo mission? They didn't get to go to the moon they had a problem. Dammit, if Tom Hanks didn't go to the moon, no one went to the moon! I mean, come on. Do you think Tom Hanks would be in a movie about a guy who didn't make it to the moon if there could a movie about a guy that did make it to the moon instead?
It's all a hoax. Oliver Stone or Michael Moore will tackle this after George Bush fixes a second election in 40 states.
We never went to the moon, didn't you see Tom Hanks' movie on that Apollo mission? They didn't get to go to the moon they had a problem. Dammit, if Tom Hanks didn't go to the moon, no one went to the moon! I mean, come on. Do you think Tom Hanks would be in a movie about a guy who didn't make it to the moon if there could a movie about a guy that did make it to the moon instead?
It's all a hoax. Oliver Stone or Michael Moore will tackle this after George Bush fixes a second election in 40 states.
[quote name='ElwoodCuse']Look at the amazing blunders and inefficiencies of the U.S. Government. Do you honestly believe that these guys are capable of sucessfully pulling off a hoax so elaborate? Way too many people would have known about it. Oh, and the Bad Astronomy website has the science as well.[/quote]
I think thats the best way to sum up this little argument.
I think thats the best way to sum up this little argument.
Mookyjooky
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We did, we played golf on the moon...it looks like they were 
ing around on the moon in the old tapes...but they're actually proving they did. You can say they put the ball on a string...but you see the dust come up (Very hard to do without CG) and the club impact the ball...which means if it was on a string...it would dangle. but instead it shot 250 feet.
My grandfather has worked for NASA for 35 years, and after a quadruple bypass surgery on his heart cause of the intense stress of being an engineer doing something thats never been done....I hope he helped people get to the moon.
ing around on the moon in the old tapes...but they're actually proving they did. You can say they put the ball on a string...but you see the dust come up (Very hard to do without CG) and the club impact the ball...which means if it was on a string...it would dangle. but instead it shot 250 feet.My grandfather has worked for NASA for 35 years, and after a quadruple bypass surgery on his heart cause of the intense stress of being an engineer doing something thats never been done....I hope he helped people get to the moon.
Missingdata
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Interesting topic...
GuilewasNK
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The thing that bothers the the most about the moon landing is that is was done in the 70's with much inferior technology than we have now. The Russians duplicated everything we did in space EXCEPT landing on the moon. The fact that no one has been back since the 70's is fishy in and of itself. I really hope we made it but I am skeptical.
I don't know if anyone has ever considered this theory:
During the time of the moon landing, we were in the middle of the cold war, being elevated by the space race.
Could it be a possibility that the T.V. footage was faked to avoid the highly likley possability of failure on national T.V.?A lot was riding on us getting to the moon first (at least that's what was thought at the time)
I don't doubt that we've been there, but maybe, just maybe the video was a little fudged.
During the time of the moon landing, we were in the middle of the cold war, being elevated by the space race.
Could it be a possibility that the T.V. footage was faked to avoid the highly likley possability of failure on national T.V.?A lot was riding on us getting to the moon first (at least that's what was thought at the time)
I don't doubt that we've been there, but maybe, just maybe the video was a little fudged.
Nirvanaguy777
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[quote name='Tromack']There is a website out there that goes through the allegations made in that Fox special and shoots them down one by one. I forget what it is though.
Oh and to Nirvana. How did this pop into your mind?[/quote]
It popped into my mind when I was watch the trailer for the new michael moore movie if you can believe that.
Oh and to Nirvana. How did this pop into your mind?[/quote]
It popped into my mind when I was watch the trailer for the new michael moore movie if you can believe that.
Nirvanaguy777
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[quote name='ElwoodCuse']Look at the amazing blunders and inefficiencies of the U.S. Government. Do you honestly believe that these guys are capable of sucessfully pulling off a hoax so elaborate? Way too many people would have known about it. Oh, and the Bad Astronomy website has the science as well.[/quote]
You make a good point.
You make a good point.
PittsburghAfterDark
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The Russians saw no strategic or military value in going to the moon. They put their efforts in manned orbital space programs and space stations. They hold every endurance record in space as a result. MIR and other stations were their focus, not the moon.
The only American space station, Sky Lab, wasn't as important to NASA as the shuttle. Both nations had different priorities. We went to the moon. No need to be skeptical.
The only American space station, Sky Lab, wasn't as important to NASA as the shuttle. Both nations had different priorities. We went to the moon. No need to be skeptical.
Nirvanaguy777
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[quote name='peteloaf']I don't know if anyone has ever considered this theory:
During the time of the moon landing, we were in the middle of the cold war, being elevated by the space race.
Could it be a possibility that the T.V. footage was faked to avoid the highly likley possability of failure on national T.V.?A lot was riding on us getting to the moon first (at least that's what was thought at the time)
I don't doubt that we've been there, but maybe, just maybe the video was a little fudged.[/quote]
That idea has crossed my mind many times, yet we did fire off huge rocket ships into shape, were did they go if this was all a hoax, i mean were at cape canaveral. (Playing devils advocate)
During the time of the moon landing, we were in the middle of the cold war, being elevated by the space race.
Could it be a possibility that the T.V. footage was faked to avoid the highly likley possability of failure on national T.V.?A lot was riding on us getting to the moon first (at least that's what was thought at the time)
I don't doubt that we've been there, but maybe, just maybe the video was a little fudged.[/quote]
That idea has crossed my mind many times, yet we did fire off huge rocket ships into shape, were did they go if this was all a hoax, i mean were at cape canaveral. (Playing devils advocate)
Nirvanaguy777
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[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']The Russians saw no strategic or military value in going to the moon. They put their efforts in manned orbital space programs and space stations. They hold every endurance record in space as a result. MIR and other stations were their focus, not the moon.
The only American space station, Sky Lab, wasn't as important to NASA as the shuttle. Both nations had different priorities. We went to the moon. No need to be skeptical.[/quote]
You dont need a need to do anything such as be skeptical, thats why their are atheists and spam.
The only American space station, Sky Lab, wasn't as important to NASA as the shuttle. Both nations had different priorities. We went to the moon. No need to be skeptical.[/quote]
You dont need a need to do anything such as be skeptical, thats why their are atheists and spam.
[quote name='ElwoodCuse']Look at the amazing blunders and inefficiencies of the U.S. Government. Do you honestly believe that these guys are capable of sucessfully pulling off a hoax so elaborate? Way too many people would have known about it. Oh, and the Bad Astronomy website has the science as well.[/quote]
Apparently the government was to stupid to make up a hoax, so instead they had to actually go to the moon.
Apparently the government was to stupid to make up a hoax, so instead they had to actually go to the moon.
yeahokthenfu
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Wow, never thought there was a Hoax on the moon landing I have heard a few people mention they didnt believe we landed on the moon but I just thought they were crazy, didnt know this was worldwide
MrBadExample
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[quote name='yeahokthenfu']Wow, never thought there was a Hoax on the moon landing I have heard a few people mention they didnt believe we landed on the moon but I just thought they were crazy, didnt know this was worldwide[/quote]
Oh my yes, crazy is worldwide.
Oh my yes, crazy is worldwide.
yeahokthenfu
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Also, if it was a Hoax or there was any idea that it was a Hoax dont you think the Russian would have done a full-blown research on this and prove it was a Hoax and then be the first who actually landed on the moon, come on now seriously.
If American high schools required just rudimentary physics in order to graduate, 90% of the people who believe this hoax BS would either no longer believe it, or be ridiculed as idiots.
We went. It's as simple as that. There are mountains of evidence, and EACH and EVERY piece of "evidence" claiming it's a hoax can be easily explained. In fact, they all are at the BadAstronomy website.
FOX should be embarrassed for running that ridiculous program.
We went. It's as simple as that. There are mountains of evidence, and EACH and EVERY piece of "evidence" claiming it's a hoax can be easily explained. In fact, they all are at the BadAstronomy website.
FOX should be embarrassed for running that ridiculous program.
Nirvanaguy777
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[quote name='Foosinho']If American high schools required just rudimentary physics in order to graduate, 90% of the people who believe this hoax BS would either no longer believe it, or be ridiculed as idiots.
We went. It's as simple as that. There are mountains of evidence, and EACH and EVERY piece of "evidence" claiming it's a hoax can be easily explained. In fact, they all are at the BadAstronomy website.
FOX should be embarrassed for running that ridiculous program.[/quote]
In my high school i wasnt required to take physics and I just graduated.
We went. It's as simple as that. There are mountains of evidence, and EACH and EVERY piece of "evidence" claiming it's a hoax can be easily explained. In fact, they all are at the BadAstronomy website.
FOX should be embarrassed for running that ridiculous program.[/quote]
In my high school i wasnt required to take physics and I just graduated.
i dont think we landed on the moon. i think it was all fake. we did it so we could claim that we made it to the moon before the soviets, and therefore win the cold war.
from what i've heard there are shadows going in different directions as if there were more than one light source.
i heard the flag was waving which it wouldnt have if there was no gravity.
i dont remember all of the other stuff i heard about it, but i've seen several documentaries about it, and IMO i dont think we landed on the moon.
i dont care if you do or dont believe that we landed on the moon. The only thing that would make me believe we landed on the moon, was if i landed on the moon with em.
i dont care if i talked to the astronauts who supposedly landed on the moon and they told me till they turned blue that they landed on the moon. they can lie as easily as anyone else. I"m not saying they're lying, but just because they say they landed, doesnt mean they did.
if we have movies like the matrix that look real, i doubt it would be hard to make a crappy black and white tape of some guys hitting a golf ball in slow motion. I know we didnt have all the mad video skills back then, but we werent stupid.
from what i've heard there are shadows going in different directions as if there were more than one light source.
i heard the flag was waving which it wouldnt have if there was no gravity.
i dont remember all of the other stuff i heard about it, but i've seen several documentaries about it, and IMO i dont think we landed on the moon.
i dont care if you do or dont believe that we landed on the moon. The only thing that would make me believe we landed on the moon, was if i landed on the moon with em.
i dont care if i talked to the astronauts who supposedly landed on the moon and they told me till they turned blue that they landed on the moon. they can lie as easily as anyone else. I"m not saying they're lying, but just because they say they landed, doesnt mean they did.
if we have movies like the matrix that look real, i doubt it would be hard to make a crappy black and white tape of some guys hitting a golf ball in slow motion. I know we didnt have all the mad video skills back then, but we werent stupid.
jmcc
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[quote name='Cracka']i dont think we landed on the moon. i think it was all fake. we did it so we could claim that we made it to the moon before the soviets, and therefore win the cold war.
from what i've heard there are shadows going in different directions as if there were more than one light source.
i heard the flag was waving which it wouldnt have if there was no gravity.
i dont remember all of the other stuff i heard about it, but i've seen several documentaries about it, and IMO i dont think we landed on the moon.
i dont care if you do or dont believe that we landed on the moon. The only thing that would make me believe we landed on the moon, was if i landed on the moon with em.
i dont care if i talked to the astronauts who supposedly landed on the moon and they told me till they turned blue that they landed on the moon. they can lie as easily as anyone else. I"m not saying they're lying, but just because they say they landed, doesnt mean they did.
if we have movies like the matrix that look real, i doubt it would be hard to make a crappy black and white tape of some guys hitting a golf ball in slow motion. I know we didnt have all the mad video skills back then, but we werent stupid.[/quote]
Do you have any interesting views on the world's current "round" status?
from what i've heard there are shadows going in different directions as if there were more than one light source.
i heard the flag was waving which it wouldnt have if there was no gravity.
i dont remember all of the other stuff i heard about it, but i've seen several documentaries about it, and IMO i dont think we landed on the moon.
i dont care if you do or dont believe that we landed on the moon. The only thing that would make me believe we landed on the moon, was if i landed on the moon with em.
i dont care if i talked to the astronauts who supposedly landed on the moon and they told me till they turned blue that they landed on the moon. they can lie as easily as anyone else. I"m not saying they're lying, but just because they say they landed, doesnt mean they did.
if we have movies like the matrix that look real, i doubt it would be hard to make a crappy black and white tape of some guys hitting a golf ball in slow motion. I know we didnt have all the mad video skills back then, but we werent stupid.[/quote]
Do you have any interesting views on the world's current "round" status?
[quote name='jmcc'][quote name='Cracka']i dont think we landed on the moon. i think it was all fake. we did it so we could claim that we made it to the moon before the soviets, and therefore win the cold war.
from what i've heard there are shadows going in different directions as if there were more than one light source.
i heard the flag was waving which it wouldnt have if there was no gravity.
i dont remember all of the other stuff i heard about it, but i've seen several documentaries about it, and IMO i dont think we landed on the moon.
i dont care if you do or dont believe that we landed on the moon. The only thing that would make me believe we landed on the moon, was if i landed on the moon with em.
i dont care if i talked to the astronauts who supposedly landed on the moon and they told me till they turned blue that they landed on the moon. they can lie as easily as anyone else. I"m not saying they're lying, but just because they say they landed, doesnt mean they did.
if we have movies like the matrix that look real, i doubt it would be hard to make a crappy black and white tape of some guys hitting a golf ball in slow motion. I know we didnt have all the mad video skills back then, but we werent stupid.[/quote]
Do you have any interesting views on the world's current "round" status?[/quote]
your smartass comment proved what?
from what i've heard there are shadows going in different directions as if there were more than one light source.
i heard the flag was waving which it wouldnt have if there was no gravity.
i dont remember all of the other stuff i heard about it, but i've seen several documentaries about it, and IMO i dont think we landed on the moon.
i dont care if you do or dont believe that we landed on the moon. The only thing that would make me believe we landed on the moon, was if i landed on the moon with em.
i dont care if i talked to the astronauts who supposedly landed on the moon and they told me till they turned blue that they landed on the moon. they can lie as easily as anyone else. I"m not saying they're lying, but just because they say they landed, doesnt mean they did.
if we have movies like the matrix that look real, i doubt it would be hard to make a crappy black and white tape of some guys hitting a golf ball in slow motion. I know we didnt have all the mad video skills back then, but we werent stupid.[/quote]
Do you have any interesting views on the world's current "round" status?[/quote]
your smartass comment proved what?
jmcc
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[quote name='Cracka'][quote name='jmcc'][quote name='Cracka']i dont think we landed on the moon. i think it was all fake. we did it so we could claim that we made it to the moon before the soviets, and therefore win the cold war.
from what i've heard there are shadows going in different directions as if there were more than one light source.
i heard the flag was waving which it wouldnt have if there was no gravity.
i dont remember all of the other stuff i heard about it, but i've seen several documentaries about it, and IMO i dont think we landed on the moon.
i dont care if you do or dont believe that we landed on the moon. The only thing that would make me believe we landed on the moon, was if i landed on the moon with em.
i dont care if i talked to the astronauts who supposedly landed on the moon and they told me till they turned blue that they landed on the moon. they can lie as easily as anyone else. I"m not saying they're lying, but just because they say they landed, doesnt mean they did.
if we have movies like the matrix that look real, i doubt it would be hard to make a crappy black and white tape of some guys hitting a golf ball in slow motion. I know we didnt have all the mad video skills back then, but we werent stupid.[/quote]
Do you have any interesting views on the world's current "round" status?[/quote]
your smartass comment proved what?[/quote]
It's not smartass at all. I'm assuming you haven't walked around the globe, right? So you just blindly accept that the world is round, but not that man has landed on the moon? Why accept someone else's scientific evidence for one but not the other?
from what i've heard there are shadows going in different directions as if there were more than one light source.
i heard the flag was waving which it wouldnt have if there was no gravity.
i dont remember all of the other stuff i heard about it, but i've seen several documentaries about it, and IMO i dont think we landed on the moon.
i dont care if you do or dont believe that we landed on the moon. The only thing that would make me believe we landed on the moon, was if i landed on the moon with em.
i dont care if i talked to the astronauts who supposedly landed on the moon and they told me till they turned blue that they landed on the moon. they can lie as easily as anyone else. I"m not saying they're lying, but just because they say they landed, doesnt mean they did.
if we have movies like the matrix that look real, i doubt it would be hard to make a crappy black and white tape of some guys hitting a golf ball in slow motion. I know we didnt have all the mad video skills back then, but we werent stupid.[/quote]
Do you have any interesting views on the world's current "round" status?[/quote]
your smartass comment proved what?[/quote]
It's not smartass at all. I'm assuming you haven't walked around the globe, right? So you just blindly accept that the world is round, but not that man has landed on the moon? Why accept someone else's scientific evidence for one but not the other?
first off, to say that your comment wasnt a smartass comment is a blatant lie.
considering that scientists all over the world have stated that the earth is round, and the only people who told us that the U.S. landed on the moon was the U.S. government, i believe i have a reason to doubt. But of course you believe everything the U.S. government says right?
considering that scientists all over the world have stated that the earth is round, and the only people who told us that the U.S. landed on the moon was the U.S. government, i believe i have a reason to doubt. But of course you believe everything the U.S. government says right?
jmcc
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[quote name='Cracka']first off, to say that your comment wasnt a smartass comment is a blatant lie.
considering that scientists all over the world have stated that the earth is round, and the only people who told us that the U.S. landed on the moon was the U.S. government, i believe i have a reason to doubt. But of course you believe everything the U.S. government says right?[/quote]
The US government probably just makes all those other people say the earth is round, through threat of economic sanctions. Or possibly through some kind of mind control waves from the Hubble telescope.
considering that scientists all over the world have stated that the earth is round, and the only people who told us that the U.S. landed on the moon was the U.S. government, i believe i have a reason to doubt. But of course you believe everything the U.S. government says right?[/quote]
The US government probably just makes all those other people say the earth is round, through threat of economic sanctions. Or possibly through some kind of mind control waves from the Hubble telescope.
bread's done