Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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[quote name='mykevermin']If you already own an HD DVD player, knock yourself out.

If, OTOH, you own neither, wait a bit longer.[/QUOTE]

I own both, Myke. Remember me? Ol' Scobie from the block? Used to play stick ball together in the street till Mr. Jenkins in 213 would yell out the window for us to knock it off?
 
All y'all bald folks look alike.

I don't really follow who owns what that isn't a dominant jackass in this thread (like me, for instance). Sorry.

EDIT: I don't know Scott Walker, but I do know Joe Strummer.

And cuco seems to be a more antagonistic fella on HDD than here. Which is good for us.

Those HDD forums held me stable for a minute while CAG was down - but fuck if it isn't filled to the brim with amazing dumbasses of all format preferences. Ye gods.
 
From Manabyte, the news from the Warner press conference.

Mostly DVD.

Starting in the 1st Quarter you'll see the Oscar and Gangster promotions, which will include the Bonnie and Clyde: Ultimate Collector's Edition (available on DVD, Blu-ray and HD-DVD) and the Bonnie and Clyde: Special Edition, along with such titles as the Goodfellas: Special Edition, the Heat: Special Edition, the Once Upon a Time in America: Special Edition, the Departed, the True Romance: Special Edition, the Film Noir Classics Collection: Volumes 1-4, the Warner Bros. Tough Guys Collection and the Warner Gangsters Collection (featuring titles like Public Enemy, Little Caesar, etc).

The Sinatra and Dirty Harry promotions will debut in the 2nd Quarter. Sinatra will include the Sinatra mini-series, along with the four box sets we revealed yesterday (The Early Years, The Golden Years, the Sinatra & Kelly Collection and the Rat Pack: Ultimate Collector's Edition - the Rat Pack: UCE will include "first-run" stamps, a music CD and other rare collectibles). The Dirty Harry promotion will include the Dirty Harry: 2-Disc Special Edition, the Magnum Force: Deluxe Edition, The Enforcer: Deluxe Edition, the Sudden Impact: Deluxe Edition and the Dead Pool: Deluxe Edition. All five films will also be included in a Dirty Harry: Ultimate Collector's Edition box set, which will also feature the Clint Eastwood: Out of the Shadows bonus disc.

The 3rd Quarter will offer Superhero fans something exciting: a Batman Begins: Limited Collector's Edition Gift Set, as well as a Batman Anthology box set on Blu-ray Disc. These are obviously timed to coincide with the DVD and Blu-ray release of The Dark Knight. Additional superhero releases are TBA. The 3rd Quarter will also offer several Western releases, including a How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition and a How the West Was Won: Special Edition, along with such titles as The Searchers, The Wild Bunch, The Cowboys, an Errol Flynn Westerns Collection and a Western Classics Collection. Finally, the 3rd Quarter will see a Music promotion featuring new special editions of An American in Paris and Gigi, as well the debut of the Classic Musicals from the Dream Factory: Volume 3 box set, featuring Hit the Deck, Kismet, Deep in My Heart, Broadway Melody of 1936/Broadway Melody of 1938, Born to Dance/Lady Be Good and Nancy Goes to Rio/Two Weeks with Love.

Rounding out 2008, the 4th Quarter will see the debut of a new DVD Horror collection with titles featuring Boris Karloff, Peter Lorre and others, as well as more horror releases from Val Lewton and Joel Silver, re-promotion of Kubrick's The Shining and a number of new Raw Feed direct-to-DVD and Blu-ray titles, including Otis: Uncut. The 4th Quarter will also see a Warner Bros. Holiday Collection and A Christmas Story: Ultimate Collector's Edition.

As part of the year's overall slate, more than 50 new-to-DVD feature films will be restored and released from the Warner catalog alone, including such titles as All This and Heaven Too, The Beast with Five Fingers, Black Legion, Brother Orchid, Deception, Flamingo Road, Gold Diggers of 1937, Inside Daisy Clover, Kid Galahad, Lady Killer, The Mayor of Hell, Night Nurse, None But the Brave, Pete Kelly's Blues, San Antonio, Thank Your Lucky Stars, Three on a March, Virginia City and Watch on the Rhine.

Other titles set to be given special edition treatment this year are Cool Hand Luke, Gypsy, Risky Business, Splendor in the Grass and others yet to be announced. Additional thematic box sets will be drawn from Warner's classic MGM and RKO collections. It was also revealed that a collection of Natalie Woods titles is in the works.

Several special events will be held throughout the course of the year, including an August 31st Warner Big Picture night at the Hollywood Bowl, celebrating the studio's musical legacy. The highlight of the year's events will be the broadcast and DVD release of Richard Schickel's 5-part documentary You Must Remember This: The Warner Bros. Story on the history of the studio, narrated by Clint Eastwood. The broadcast version will debut as a 3-part special in September, as part of PBS's American Masters series. As part of last night's event, Schickel gave the media a 10-minute sneak peek at a portion of his documentary series examining Warner films in the context of World War II.

The studio also revealed during the event that last year's Blade Runner: Ultimate Collector's Edition and Harry Potter: Ultimate Collector's Edition were tremendously successful releases, generating more than $20 million in combined sales in the 45-day period over the holidays.

In terms of new titles in the year ahead, you can obviously look forward to the DVD and Blu-ray debut of such theatrical release films as The Dark Knight, Speed Racer, Get Smart, Where the Wild Things Are, 10,000 B.C. and Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Price, later in 2008 and early 2009.

Finally, studio reps revealed that The Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, Woodstock and North by Northwest are all soon going on moratorium until 2009, when each of them will reappear in day and date DVD and Blu-ray releases, with complete high-definition restorations to celebrate their own individual anniversaries.
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So a box set of ALL the Batman movies? They BETTER sell them seperately....

I'm more excited by the release of Inside Daisy Clover on DVD, first time!
That and a special edition of Splendor in the Grass, and a boxset of Natalie Woods films. Yes!!!
 
[quote name='Scobie']Boom! Ryback with a ferocious left hook!!

Anyway, looks like Best Buy has another HD-DVD B1G1 this weekend (limited selection). I'm always up for blowing my money on bullshit, but I'm kinda on-the-fence with this one... I don't wanna be the guy giving mouth-to-mouth to HD-DVD while it's twitching on the pavement, y'know? Might get tongued in a spastic fit, and that'd be kinda grody.

Any word on how the Toshiba Group is doing these days? Any execs commiting hara-kiri in the board room?[/QUOTE]

I got to agree. This bogo is weak since almost every movie has already been in a bogo. I might use my RZ money and nab Hot Fuzz and 40yo virgin, but I am stiff iffy.

I hope that they release the movies in the anthology separate like Fox did with the Die Hards. All I really want are the first two and I will be satisfied. Good to see that they are releasing the older Batman movies in HD though.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']All y'all bald folks look alike.

I don't really follow who owns what that isn't a dominant jackass in this thread (like me, for instance). Sorry.

EDIT: I don't know Scott Walker, but I do know Joe Strummer.

And cuco seems to be a more antagonistic fella on HDD than here. Which is good for us.

Those HDD forums held me stable for a minute while CAG was down - but fuck if it isn't filled to the brim with amazing dumbasses of all format preferences. Ye gods.[/quote]
:D

Well I've always been purple at heart but being a realist I know HD DVD is doomed, being an engineer I always look at both sides of the equation and since I'm also one debateable motherfucker, most think I'm always on the red side... I like pinpointing out pros and cons on anythign I own, support or am interested. I do favor red but not by much... I have lurked on here for way too long and decided to finally participate. On HDD, it boggles my mind some of those posters and I go and pinpoint things like those who preach lossless audio meanwhile they make statements they hear it via TV speakers (lol) or how it was right of Sony for not including an IR because the sixaxis and BT keyboard is a suitable remote control for anyone, things of that nature. Sucks that only my pro-red posts stand out more than my pro-red posts. Soon as WB defected I said it numerous times that HD DVD was done for but don't jump to conclusions with initial news and sales data (i.e. hardware went 93/7 that week and everyone said HD DVD was dead in JAN and following week it shot back up to 65/35ish and I still claimed trouble by xmas)

BTW, MS add on = fail. They finally bring the price down when it's already too little too late. You might see a spike in sales, which is fine, but if the war ended today in NA, those new purchases are limited to 400 titles (not imported). I just hope the BDA gets their heads out their asses and finalizes the spec hopefully bringing on compatibility across the platform. I've never been OK with them saying that we, the consumer, should expect issues. :roll: Good thing I got me a PS3 then huh? :applause:

I can't really lose though, I have both an HD-A2 that plays HD DVD and upscales all my DVDs and a 40gigger for Blu-ray (and gaming). In a way, I don't mind seeing HD DVD dieing now because I can't wait for the clearance software sales :D I'm not one of those who sells off the whole collection (losing money) to rebuy the same films (losing money again) on the other format. I have purchased 1 of each format this week due to Amazon's sale too :bouncy:
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']I got to agree. This bogo is weak since almost every movie has already been in a bogo. I might use my RZ money and nab Hot Fuzz and 40yo virgin, but I am stiff iffy.

I hope that they release the movies in the anthology separate like Fox did with the Die Hards. All I really want are the first two and I will be satisfied. Good to see that they are releasing the older Batman movies in HD though.[/quote]
Hot Fuzz looks excellent. One of my top tier titles I like to show off. I'm waiting for Kingdom of Heaven on Blu, heard it's up there. I still have The Kingdom on HD DVD I want to get soon as it comes down in price... yeah I'm a cheap bastid too lol
 
[quote name='cuco33']:D

Well I've always been purple at heart but being a realist I know HD DVD is doomed, being an engineer I always look at both sides of the equation and since I'm also one debateable motherfucker, most think I'm always on the red side... I like pinpointing out pros and cons on anythign I own, support or am interested. I do favor red but not by much... I have lurked on here for way too long and decided to finally participate. On HDD, it boggles my mind some of those posters and I go and pinpoint things like those who preach lossless audio meanwhile they make statements they hear it via TV speakers (lol) or how it was right of Sony for not including an IR because the sixaxis and BT keyboard is a suitable remote control for anyone, things of that nature. Sucks that only my pro-red posts stand out more than my pro-red posts. Soon as WB defected I said it numerous times that HD DVD was done for but don't jump to conclusions with initial news and sales data (i.e. hardware went 93/7 that week and everyone said HD DVD was dead in JAN and following week it shot back up to 65/35ish and I still claimed trouble by xmas)

BTW, MS add on = fail. They finally bring the price down when it's already too little too late. You might see a spike in sales, which is fine, but if the war ended today in NA, those new purchases are limited to 400 titles (not imported). I just hope the BDA gets their heads out their asses and finalizes the spec hopefully bringing on compatibility across the platform. I've never been OK with them saying that we, the consumer, should expect issues. :roll: Good thing I got me a PS3 then huh? :applause:

I can't really lose though, I have both an HD-A2 that plays HD DVD and upscales all my DVDs and a 40gigger for Blu-ray (and gaming). In a way, I don't mind seeing HD DVD dieing now because I can't wait for the clearance software sales :D I'm not one of those who sells off the whole collection (losing money) to rebuy the same films (losing money again) on the other format. I have purchased 1 of each format this week due to Amazon's sale too :bouncy:[/QUOTE]


Fair enough. It's very hard to be anything but antagonistic at HDD. Their "debates" make this formar war thread look like Sesame Street, even at its peak around last October (give or take).
 
[quote name='dallow']Aw, nice to see Scobie again!
Any friend of Scott Walker is a friend of mine.[/QUOTE]

Hey Dallow! I've been away a lot because of so much hilarity on XBL and because of a lot of stuff going on in my life. It's always nice to pop back in and see some of the regulars, though.

[quote name='mykevermin']Those HDD forums held me stable for a minute while CAG was down - but fuck if it isn't filled to the brim with amazing dumbasses of all format preferences. Ye gods.[/QUOTE]

It's a jungle out there. For as lame as CAG's boards can be sometimes, they do tend to be among the better ones out there. I tried following some of the HDM forums for a while and just couldn't do it. Too much bad logic and bad grammar, too many little bitches jumping back and forth between formats and breaking down about it, and too many school yard level personal attacks.

[quote name='CaseyRyback']I got to agree. This bogo is weak since almost every movie has already been in a bogo. I might use my RZ money and nab Hot Fuzz and 40yo virgin, but I am stiff iffy.[/QUOTE]

Hot Fuzz is pretty entertaining and worth the price of admission. If anything, I might go in for 40 Year Old Virgin and Knocked Up... not sure. I can't bring myself to pick up Transformers... If I needed that kind of medicine, I'd save a few bucks and just buy a bottle of syrup of ipocac at Walgreens.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Fair enough. It's very hard to be anything but antagonistic at HDD. Their "debates" make this formar war thread look like Sesame Street, even at its peak around last October (give or take).[/quote]

Agreed, but I think it's much worse in BD.com land :cool:
 
Lots of nice Warner info from Hunt.

Looks like the Dirty Harry collection is DVD and BD only.

Glad to see the the missing Warner classics coming too.
 
[quote name='Scobie']
Hot Fuzz is pretty entertaining and worth the price of admission. If anything, I might go in for 40 Year Old Virgin and Knocked Up... not sure. I can't bring myself to pick up Transformers... If I needed that kind of medicine, I'd save a few bucks and just buy a bottle of syrup of ipocac at Walgreens.[/quote]

I'm a sucker for cheesy action flicks just as much as I am for praised foreign films. TF was one of the few titles I bought day it was released at full price lol. It was pretty cool but not something I'ld suggest to everyone.
 
[quote name='cuco33']Agreed, but I think it's much worse in BD.com land :cool:[/QUOTE]

I think they're different.

HDD: "my HD encode is better than your HD encode!!!!"

BD.com: "ohh, Penton, let me suck your cock! Ohh, mystik, let me flirt with your not-very-attractive nutjob self!"

HDD is Kindergarten, while BD is a circlejerk. Both have the same modicums of useful information, however.

EDIT: Yeah, dallow, WB is really stepping up here. They're even releasing Errol Flynn's "Robin Hood" on BD, which was the one I least expected to see on BD anytime soon.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I think they're different.

HDD: "my HD encode is better than your HD encode!!!!"

BD.com: "ohh, Penton, let me suck your cock! Ohh, mystik, let me flirt with your not-very-attractive nutjob self!"

HDD is Kindergarten, while BD is a circlejerk. Both have the same modicums of useful information, however.

EDIT: Yeah, dallow, WB is really stepping up here. They're even releasing Errol Flynn's "Robin Hood" on BD, which was the one I least expected to see on BD anytime soon.[/QUOTE]

Really so it's confirmed they're getting "Casablanca" and "Forbidden Planet"?
edit: Am I the only one who wants an HD Looney Tunes collection? For crying out loud EVERY Looney Tunes Cartoon is in HD on the XBLM for crying out loud! X(
 
I saw Forbidden Planet in the list, but I don't recall Casablanca.

I agree on Looney Tunes, but always lament that they tend to omit the more "risque" cartoons (e.g., the Anti-Japanese WWII ones) - like the redub of Tom & Jerry to take the racist "mammy" voice away from the black housemaid and replace it with a more "Oprah"-sounding voice. But that's not WB.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I saw Forbidden Planet in the list, but I don't recall Casablanca.

I agree on Looney Tunes, but always lament that they tend to omit the more "risque" cartoons (e.g., the Anti-Japanese WWII ones) - like the redub of Tom & Jerry to take the racist "mammy" voice away from the black housemaid and replace it with a more "Oprah"-sounding voice. But that's not WB.[/QUOTE]

I have the out of print VHS of those .
Pretty cool stuff .
 
When compatibility issues arise, manufacturers often blame the movie studios. Movie studios, in turn, blame the manufacturers. It's a nice little circle of finger pointing that in the end, only serves to piss off consumers and promote lawsuits.
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It's so true that it got a chuckle out of me, although some studios/companies are now stepping up.
 
It's crap like the Samsung fiasco that kinda makes me wish HD DVD was winning... BDA just doesn't seem to have it together.
 
[quote name='Scobie']It's crap like the Samsung fiasco that kinda makes me wish HD DVD was winning... BDA just doesn't seem to have it together.[/QUOTE]Why anybody gets a BD player over a PS3 is beyond me.
 
[quote name='TimPV3']Why anybody gets a BD player over a PS3 is beyond me.[/quote]

They don't know any better. That, and for a lot of regular consumers, there is still a huge stigma attached to videogames.

It is, and sadly likely always will be, considered 'juvenile' to own a game console, even if you only use it for 'playing movies'.

Random thoughts.
 
[quote name='TimPV3']Why anybody gets a BD player over a PS3 is beyond me.[/quote]
There are a myriad of reasons. Admittedly, most don't apply to the majority of people, but there are several. Here's just a taste:

Heat
Noise
Lack of DTS-HD support
Lack of bitstream support
Lack of multichannel analogs
Incompatible with universal remotes.

It's a great overall package for most people, and an exceptional value. But it's not perfect, and I wish people would stop pretending it is. My PS3 is doing a great job for me as an interim player, but 5 of those 6 things (I don't need multichannel analogs anymore) will prevent it from continuing to be my primary BD player long-term. It's all about the Panny BD-50. :)
 
[quote name='geko29']
Incompatible with universal remotes.
[/QUOTE]

That's the big one for me. It won't work with my Harmony Remote (X-box 360 model) which is crucial for me as I love that thing. Having 1 remote that works everything so simply is awesome.

Other personal reason is Sony pissed me off buy forcing in Blu Ray in 2006, and launching ant $500-600 for a feature I (and many) didn't care about at the time. I doubt I'll buy a PS3 just out of spite.

I'll wait until a solid standalone, non-sony BR player is $200 or less and then take the plunge.
 
[quote name='geko29']Samsung is being sued because they've officially announced that any current or future titles that don't work on their players will NEVER work:

http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/02/samsung-sued-ov.html

This would be why I don't recommend Samsung players....[/quote]

This urks me... I split blame on Samsung (90%) and the spec not being 'final' (10%). I don't think these issues would be so relevant if the spec was set in stone rather than launching with profiles or revisions to reach the final spec but I put the vast majority of blame on Samsung for dropping the ball big time. Maybe it jsut costs them too much to get their player to be compatible. I think a recall on these 1000 and 1200 players will come about from this. The consumer might get a newer better Samsung unit but he sure as hell will feel bummed and burned due to the experience he dealt with.

Sammy's really bringing bad vibes to HDM as a whole more so than Blu-ray in my book. People interested hear these stories and think instantly 'HDM isn't ready, I'll continue to hold off even more' even though it's mainly 1 manufacturer. Really fucked up if they just say 'tough luck' on newer discs.. I wonder if this continues across the platform amongst other CEMs when 2.0 profile becomes the norm. I hope for the sake of HDM it doesn't... And I like Sammy products :(
 
[quote name='cuco33']Really fucked up if they just say 'tough luck' on newer discs.. I wonder if this continues across the platform amongst other CEMs when 2.0 profile becomes the norm. I hope for the sake of HDM it doesn't... And I like Sammy products :([/quote]
Two seperate issues, really. BD-J and BD+ were part of the spec before launch. Profile 0.9, so to speak. The Samsung players won't play back many profile 1.0 discs because they're not designed properly. They're required to, but they can't.

The profile 1.1/2.0 stuff is another thing entirely. Those features won't work in 1.0 players, and said players (except PS3) CANNOT be firmware upgraded to support them--they must be replaced to add that additional functionality. However, the discs themselves should work--sans the PiP/online features--in 1.0 players. If they don't, responsible manufacturers will offer firmware updates to correct whatever flaw prevents the main movie and non-1.1/2.0 extras from working. I suspect Samsung will not be among these manufacturers.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']:rofl:

Out of spite? Really?[/QUOTE]



Spite is probably too strong a word. More just voting with my wallet by going with the Wii60 for the cost of the 60GB PS3 at launch. I didn't like them driving game console prices up to ridiculous levels (even the $350 I paid for the 360 was at least $100 too much IMO) by forcing in a new media format. Thus they don't get my business this generation.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Price I can believe.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's basically that I hate the price enough to pretty much boycott it to the exent of not even buying it after price drops.

The fact that the exclusive game lineup out and announced doesn't get me too excited, and the fact that I can't even find time to play everything that interests me on the consoles I already own makes it even easier to stick to my laurels and not buy one. :D
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I didn't like them driving game console prices up to ridiculous levels (even the $350 I paid for the 360 was at least $100 too much IMO) by forcing in a new media format. Thus they don't get my business this generation.[/QUOTE]Ugh. BLU-RAY WAS NOT WHAT DELAYED THE PS3 OR WHAT MADE IT $600. Cite copy protection issues all you want, there were no games done in March of 2006, and that was because it took Sony a long time to finalize the specifications of the system. Price? GSX/Cell combo cost them an assload, and throwing all the other shit in there couldn't have helped (hard drive, wi-fi)

And what would Sony do without Blu-Ray? They'd just have a 360 without Live.
 
[quote name='Richlough']What is the PC equivalent of the GSX ?
I mean it's numbered couterpart .[/quote]

The GSX is an overclocked 7900 gts.

And thomas, actually at launch blu-ray was a reason that the price was so high. The diodes themselves were about 100$ because they were so hard to make. Now, they are about 7$. And to anyone who still doesn't see the benefits of blu-ray for gaming really needs a reality check. Killzone 2, Ratchet and Clank, and Uncharted all take WAY over 9gb of disc space. If your fine with lower res textures and lower res audio, that's fine, but some of us aren't and I am glad that they decided to go with Blu-ray.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']The GSX is an overclocked 7900 gts.

And thomas, actually at launch blu-ray was a reason that the price was so high. The diodes themselves were about 100$ because they were so hard to make. Now, they are about 7$. And to anyone who still doesn't see the benefits of blu-ray for gaming really needs a reality check. Killzone 2, Ratchet and Clank, and Uncharted all take WAY over 9gb of disc space. If your fine with lower res textures and lower res audio, that's fine, but some of us aren't and I am glad that they decided to go with Blu-ray.[/quote]

Yeah I read the same thing that the Blu diodes were one of the main reasons the PS3 pricing stayed up there. With time any new product goes through a cost savings thing and I guess the diode manufacturers significantly dropped their pricing. Add in the HDM war plus the PS3 not taking off like originally planned, you got 'gimped' versions and price cuts. But as for your last statement, I do see an advantage in larger disk space but very few games utilize it. I have R&C and it's a fun and gorgeous looking game but graphics alone don't make a game great. Look at the Wii, there's a few titles on that, very low res, that are great entertainment. Uncharted would be about the only real game in my book that shows the advantage but it's 1 game in a pool of great games that show the need. I dunno bout you guys but the way I see it is that these high res games cost developers a TON to make and if they don't get the return on investment, we won't be seeing as many titles that are worthy and show the need for the disc space. No doubt in my mind the next MS and Nintendo system will have a high disc capacity drive in it so long as it's profitable.
 
[quote name='TimPV3']Ugh. BLU-RAY WAS NOT WHAT DELAYED THE PS3 OR WHAT MADE IT $600.
[/quote]

Of course it's what made it $600. The 360 is nearly as powerful for gaming and launched at $400. Stand alone BluRay players were more than $600 at the time, Sony took a loss on the PS3 just to sell it at $500-600. The technology was too new and expensive to be put in a game machine.

Without it they could have launched at $400 easily.


And what would Sony do without Blu-Ray? They'd just have a 360 without Live.
Click to expand...

Um, they'd have kept ruling the game industry like they had with the PS1 and PS2--reasonably priced gaming machines.

And I'd have been perfectly fine with that as I play my 360 more offline than I do on, and got buy just fine last generation with no online gaming whatsover.
 
[quote name='cuco33']Yeah I read the same thing that the Blu diodes were one of the main reasons the PS3 pricing stayed up there. With time any new product goes through a cost savings thing and I guess the diode manufacturers significantly dropped their pricing. Add in the HDM war plus the PS3 not taking off like originally planned, you got 'gimped' versions and price cuts. But as for your last statement, I do see an advantage in larger disk space but very few games utilize it. I have R&C and it's a fun and gorgeous looking game but graphics alone don't make a game great. Look at the Wii, there's a few titles on that, very low res, that are great entertainment. Uncharted would be about the only real game in my book that shows the advantage but it's 1 game in a pool of great games that show the need. I dunno bout you guys but the way I see it is that these high res games cost developers a TON to make and if they don't get the return on investment, we won't be seeing as many titles that are worthy and show the need for the disc space. No doubt in my mind the next MS and Nintendo system will have a high disc capacity drive in it so long as it's profitable.[/quote]

We do see non-graphics benefits. Games are longer because of it and developers don't have to make cuts to games because of less disc space. UT3, Assassins Creed and GTA IV all have these problems. And I hate to see developers have to make design cuts because they are limited by disc space. But, I have made this argument a million times, and am getting tired of it.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']We do see non-graphics benefits. Games are longer because of it and developers don't have to make cuts to games because of less disc space. UT3, Assassins Creed and GTA IV all have these problems. And I hate to see developers have to make design cuts because they are limited by disc space. But, I have made this argument a million times, and am getting tired of it.[/QUOTE]

Are you implying the GTA IV delay is because of the 360 ?
 
Even if diodes were $100 when PS3 launched, that's only $100 out of the what, $800 cost of the system? So what would they have luanched at, $500?
[quote name='dmaul1114']Um, they'd have kept ruling the game industry like they had with the PS1 and PS2--reasonably priced gaming machines.

And I'd have been perfectly fine with that as I play my 360 more offline than I do on, and got buy just fine last generation with no online gaming whatsover.[/QUOTE]The 360 got a years start, and developers were jumping ship before the PS3 launched. A $500/$400 price wouldn't have saved the PS3. If you think price is what made the PSX/PS2 sell well, why didn't the same apply to the Gamecube, Dreamcast, or the OG Xbox, all cheaper (at some point) than the PS2?

Xbox Live is huge, I love offline games as much as you do, but after playing on Live or joining a clan in Warhawk I find it a little hard to play games with just single player. There are so many games I'd still play if they had online co-op.

I'm willing to close out this argument, because it's really impossible to tell how it would have gone if the PS3 launched sooner/cheaper/without this/without that.
 
[quote name='TimPV3']Even if diodes were $100 when PS3 launched, that's only $100 out of the what, $800 cost of the system? So what would they have luanched at, $500?
The 360 got a years start, and developers were jumping ship before the PS3 launched. A $500/$400 price wouldn't have saved the PS3. If you think price is what made the PSX/PS2 sell well, why didn't the same apply to the Gamecube, Dreamcast, or the OG Xbox, all cheaper (at some point) than the PS2?

Xbox Live is huge, I love offline games as much as you do, but after playing on Live or joining a clan in Warhawk I find it a little hard to play games with just single player. There are so many games I'd still play if they had online co-op.

I'm willing to close out this argument, because it's really impossible to tell how it would have gone if the PS3 launched sooner/cheaper/without this/without that.[/QUOTE]

I don't think the original XBOX was ever cheaper than the PS2 .
It came out a year later and started at $299 .
 
[quote name='Richlough']Are you implying the GTA IV delay is because of the 360 ?[/quote]

No no no no no. Just that Rockstar was having issues of deciding what to keep on the game and not on the game due to developing with Blu-ray and DVD.
 
[quote name='TimPV3']
The 360 got a years start, and developers were jumping ship before the PS3 launched. A $500/$400 price wouldn't have saved the PS3.
[/quote]

I never talked about console sales. Just that it was priced way to high for me personally to consider it even though the PS1 and PS2 were my most played consoles in their respective generations. I'm not sure whether it would have done much better either. It could be the year head start for 360 and the lack of killer launch and year from launch games would have done nearly as much damage without the $600 tag.

[quote name='TimPV3']
If you think price is what made the PSX/PS2 sell well, why didn't the same apply to the Gamecube, Dreamcast, or the OG Xbox, all cheaper (at some point) than the PS2?
[/quote]

The PS2 had the price AND the name recognition after the PS1 kicking ass. They had name recognition this time, but shot that in the foot by being so expensive, a year behind the 360, weak launch games etc. etc.


[quote name='TimPV3']
Xbox Live is huge, I love offline games as much as you do, but after playing on Live or joining a clan in Warhawk I find it a little hard to play games with just single player. There are so many games I'd still play if they had online co-op.
[/QUOTE]

I like Live, but I've always been much more into single player games than multiplayer games so I still spend much more time on them. Mostly because I suck and hardly ever even manage a 1:1 kill ratio in any matches. :D
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']We do see non-graphics benefits. Games are longer because of it and developers don't have to make cuts to games because of less disc space. UT3, Assassins Creed and GTA IV all have these problems. And I hate to see developers have to make design cuts because they are limited by disc space. But, I have made this argument a million times, and am getting tired of it.[/QUOTE]

Meh, they always have the option of putting it on mulitple discs. Didn't bother me the least in the PSX era or with RE4 on the Gamecube. Not a big deal at all to change discs a few times.

Of course, it's a bigger issue with a game like GTA that's not linear as it would get annoying to have to change discs more often when you back track etc.

But I think everyone agrees more disc space will be great for gaming in the long run. Many of us just think it was a generation too soon due to the price inflation it caused.

But Sony cared more about winning the HDM format war than the gaming war this gen. They've succeeded on that front, and now it's time to see if they can get out the games and price cuts they need this year to challenge MS for second place this generation.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Meh, they always have the option of putting it on mulitple discs. Didn't bother me the least in the PSX era or with RE4 on the Gamecube. Not a big deal at all to change discs a few times.
[/QUOTE]

I remember people looking forward to multi-disc games .
"Game X is gonna be awesome it comes on 3 discs !"

I don't understand the crime in having to switch discs .

I consider 5GB installs more of a crime .
 
[quote name='Richlough']I don't understand the crime in having to switch discs.[/QUOTE]

Depends on the game; MGS1 was a fantastic multi-disc action title, the PS1 Final Fantasies excellent RPGs.

The common theme in these games was a one-time disc switch.

If the 'gameworld' itself required more than one disc, that's not a problem. That is, until you have a game model where you need to, or are able to, revisit those areas at any point in the game.

In the context of GTA, imagine Vice City, which was two islands, having one each on two discs. The back and forth would have ruined the gameplay.

So, multi-disc is not a problem as long as the content is used in a linear fashion; the sort of game where you can say "oh, I finished disc 2 of Blue Dragon, and I'm getting ready to play the last one."

It isn't, as I'd suggested before, only good for RPGs. But I think we can agree that it would be far worse for a game like GTA.

But, all considered, it's moot since the PS3 will never not have a Blu-Ray drive. Several games have demonstrated the need for its capacity. Not many, but some. We can all, I think, agree that DVD won't work during the next console generation, but debate whether BD is needed this gen. I'd say it is necessary, and it isn't. Some games need it very badly, but not all of them. Moreover, very few multiplatform games will take advantage of the capacity because of the desire to make 360/PS3 versions identical. That isn't to say they're making games "lesser" because of the 360, but they aren't going to use BD's capacity as much because of the need to make games more equal.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Depends on the game; MGS1 was a fantastic multi-disc action title, the PS1 Final Fantasies excellent RPGs.

The common theme in these games was a one-time disc switch.

If the 'gameworld' itself required more than one disc, that's not a problem. That is, until you have a game model where you need to, or are able to, revisit those areas at any point in the game.

In the context of GTA, imagine Vice City, which was two islands, having one each on two discs. The back and forth would have ruined the gameplay.

So, multi-disc is not a problem as long as the content is used in a linear fashion; the sort of game where you can say "oh, I finished disc 2 of Blue Dragon, and I'm getting ready to play the last one."

It isn't, as I'd suggested before, only good for RPGs. But I think we can agree that it would be far worse for a game like GTA.

But, all considered, it's moot since the PS3 will never not have a Blu-Ray drive. Several games have demonstrated the need for its capacity. Not many, but some. We can all, I think, agree that DVD won't work during the next console generation, but debate whether BD is needed this gen. I'd say it is necessary, and it isn't. Some games need it very badly, but not all of them. Moreover, very few multiplatform games will take advantage of the capacity because of the desire to make 360/PS3 versions identical. That isn't to say they're making games "lesser" because of the 360, but they aren't going to use BD's capacity as much because of the need to make games more equal.[/QUOTE]


The only way for people to come to the realization that BD is needed this gen (or any gen) is if a developer were to really use blu ray to its fullest potential. But no Multiplatform game can ever truly take full advantage of blu ray, so hopefully, Sony has a first party game, or a purely exclusive game that can fully use blu ray's size. Using Blu ray to its fullest potential sounds good, but in terms of game development I wonder what that will actually mean. Does it mean more of the same content burned on the disc, more textures for more cars in a racing game, more game, etc. Whatever it is, it should be something that gamer's can immediate realize blu ray is what's making the experence of the particular game possible.
 
Netflix goes blu-ray exclusive.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=947

Ted Sarandos, chief content officer for Netflix commented, "The prolonged period of competition between two formats has prevented clear communication to the consumer regarding the richness of the high-def experience versus standard definition. We are now at the point where the industry can pursue the migration to a single format, bring clarity to the consumer and accelerate the adoption of high-def. Going forward, we expect that all of the studios will publish in the Blu-ray format and that the price points of high-def DVD players will come down significantly."
Click to expand...


Yahoo confirms.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080211/netflix_blu_ray.html?.v=1
 
[quote name='mykevermin']In the context of GTA, imagine Vice City, which was two islands, having one each on two discs. The back and forth would have ruined the gameplay.

So, multi-disc is not a problem as long as the content is used in a linear fashion; the sort of game where you can say "oh, I finished disc 2 of Blue Dragon, and I'm getting ready to play the last one."

It isn't, as I'd suggested before, only good for RPGs. But I think we can agree that it would be far worse for a game like GTA.[/quote]

Just to play devil's advocate....it doesn't necessarily have to be. Aside from buildings and whatnot, the GTA games have a lot of animations and voiceovers related to the individual missions that are totally inaccessible once completed. So rather than putting each island on a disc, you could put both islands on both discs, and put the relevant missions and cutscenes from the first "half" on disc 1, and the rest on disc 2.

It's been too long since I played a multi-disc FF game, but I assume that's how they were done as well, since in most of those games you could backtrack to wherever you want. You just couldn't re-do parts of the storyline that occurred in those places.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Netflix goes blu-ray exclusive.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=947[/quote]

That is massive bullshit. I use Netflix to rent all formats, SD and HD and only real reason I looked their way was because they had a nice selection of HD DVD as compared to the lack luster selection at Blockbuster... this urks me beyond no doubt. :bomb::bomb::bomb:
 
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