Limited Run Games Thread - We only promise our NES games will work, not your console

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mrliquid said:
Thanks for the response. Your passive aggressive statement at the end is a little off putting though. I think I was pretty fair with my criticisms. The pattern seems to show that companies release on LRG after the game has run its course. I listed several games where this was the case. I want LRG to succeed, and for me, your success comes from more games that werent free on PS plus, and less games that were. I can't possibly be the only one that thinks this. Honestly, I am probably one of your biggest customers, so I think this is feedback in the best possible way, and I don't think I was rude about it.

For me, I am usually not concerned with playing a game a 2nd time after I finish it. I have bought Physical versions of games I already own digitally, but that is mainly to support developers and games that I like. If I have not purchased a game digitally, I will buy the LRG release because I can sell the game in the future when I am done with it, just like any other physical release. I am not concerned about owning the game 20 yrs from now. I dont care about losing the game when PS plus disappears, I am most likely already finished with it. Not everyone is the same as me, and many want a physical version even though they got the game for free. It does not negate the fact that so many LRG releases appear to be the last ditch effort for Publishers to make money on a game, which removes the allure of LRG being something special, IMO.

I mean, is it just a coincidence that at least 1/3 or more of your releases were free on PS plus?

Finally, can you give us some examples of games you have turned down? That would be interesting to hear
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There are very good business and preservation reasons why LRG and other niche physical publishers don't necessarily publish games within close proximity of launch. From the preservation perspective, things like patches and DLC generally aren't finalized until a good deal of time after launch. I think most collectors and physical gamers would prefer everything on disc. From the business perspective, developers licensing games to LRG often have distribution agreements whereby portions of the development cost were paid in exchange for certain exclusive distribution rights. It may take several years before these rights lapse. Moreover, a digital publisher may not want thousands of copies that can be resold on the market near launch as it may impact digital sales. For many of us, LRG is doing amazing work and the fact that they are releasing this particular game physically when most of us had given up hope of ever getting a physical console version is incredible. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, but it's pretty clear that you're not LRG's target market.

On a side note, PS+ is not free and if you let your subscription lapse, the games you downloaded are no longer yours to play. As such, arguing that these games have no value when you must pay to get them is just fundamentally flawed thinking.

 
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mrliquid said:
Thanks for the response. Your passive aggressive statement at the end is a little off putting though. I think I was pretty fair with my criticisms. The pattern seems to show that companies release on LRG after the game has run its course. I listed several games where this was the case. I want LRG to succeed, and for me, your success comes from more games that werent free on PS plus, and less games that were. I can't possibly be the only one that thinks this. Honestly, I am probably one of your biggest customers, so I think this is feedback in the best possible way, and I don't think I was rude about it.

For me, I am usually not concerned with playing a game a 2nd time after I finish it. I have bought Physical versions of games I already own digitally, but that is mainly to support developers and games that I like. If I have not purchased a game digitally, I will buy the LRG release because I can sell the game in the future when I am done with it, just like any other physical release. I am not concerned about owning the game 20 yrs from now. I dont care about losing the game when PS plus disappears, I am most likely already finished with it. Not everyone is the same as me, and many want a physical version even though they got the game for free. It does not negate the fact that so many LRG releases appear to be the last ditch effort for Publishers to make money on a game, which removes the allure of LRG being something special, IMO.

I mean, is it just a coincidence that at least 1/3 or more of your releases were free on PS plus?

Finally, can you give us some examples of games you have turned down? That would be interesting to hear
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If your asking the questions you are, your missing the point of what LRG is and what they offer. I've never paid Sony a dime, so I have never gotten a "free" game, so I rather enjoy what is offered by LRG. If there happens to be a game I don't want, I wouldn't buy it, as no one is forcing anyone here to buy anything they don't need or want. A hate slogging through the grocery store aisle for tons of shit I don't want or need, but someone is buying all of that stuff, and if they catered only to me, they would probably be out of business rather soon.

Aqua Kitty has been one of my personal favorite releases, and many here and elsewhere complained, as it was a cheap mobile title. That's cool, as there are many games released on every system that I don't care for, but if others want to buy them, and the people involved are making a living, whats the harm?

When Night Trap was originally released, it was a rather poorly received game, that really only appealed to a select few, and now, after a time, it's a great release apparently as it probably has more interest now, than it ever did back then.

Doomstink said:
I expected that Broken Age would be a title that people would be pretty universally excited for. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to find people upset about it.
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I keep telling you Josh.........Some men you just can't reach!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLHZmVHSP7A

LOL!

 
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mrliquid said:
But it's hard to deny the pattern of some of the releases that were on PS plus months or even years ago.
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The pattern was noticed pretty early on and it still holds true. That said, EOL publishing isn't exactly a bad idea for those that want some (or even all) of these games in physical form. It gives the publisher one last push and LRG makes some money as well.

Doomstink said:
PSN will inevitably shut down support for this stuff within the next two decades and you'll be shit out of luck as far as "owning" these titles goes. You don't own anything through PS+.
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The same will be true for all these physical games where there is DLC not on the cart/disc and required updates to fix certain issues and PSN is gone.

So the doom is for everything ultimately.

What protects the future is when people take the time to back this stuff up digitally and share it way after EOL. Of course that's not legal, but it's the way many games have managed to be enjoyed when the copies available dry up and fewer people want to go back to the original hardware and instead just run it on something modern.

On a side note, developers of all kinds of media (music, tv, movies, games, ..etc) often lose original content. Physical is great. I love it. But it is no guarantee of a game or whatever surviving.

 
bojay1997 said:
There are very good business and preservation reasons why LRG and other niche physical publishers don't necessarily publish games within close proximity of launch. From the preservation perspective, things like patches and DLC generally aren't finalized until a good deal of time after launch. I think most collectors and physical gamers would prefer everything on disc. From the business perspective, developers licensing games to LRG often have distribution agreements whereby portions of the development cost were paid in exchange for certain exclusive distribution rights. It may take several years before these rights lapse. Moreover, a digital publisher may not want thousands of copies that can be resold on the market near launch as it may impact digital sales. For many of us, LRG is doing amazing work and the fact that they are releasing this particular game physically when most of us had given up hope of ever getting a physical console version is incredible. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, but it's pretty clear that you're not LRG's target market.

On a side note, PS+ is not free and if you let your subscription lapse, the games you downloaded are no longer yours to play. As such, arguing that these games have no value when you must pay to get them is just fundamentally flawed thinking.
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I agree with the first half of your post. But i disagree that I am not their target market. I buy a lot of their releases, and a lot of the games that they release I am really excited for. What is the target market that you are referring to? Are you saying that I need to be happy with all of their releases to be the target market? Or be the die hard collector concerned about game 'preservation'? I am pointing out that they are starting to look like the middleman for publishers trying to make money on games that are no longer making money. IMO, this is not a good look.

The games with ps plus are not 'free', however $60 MRSP for Plus, divided by 12, divided by 6 = 83 cents per game. However, the value is not the core of the criticism I am making. Like I said, i am not concerned with losing the games when my PS plus expires, and I fully know I do not own these games. However I have played and finished them, and thus I dont care if I cant play the game in 20 yrs, nor do i care to play most games a second time after I finish them. You may care about that and make it one of the points to justify an LRG release, but I do not.

Games being released on PS plus is often an indicator that a Publisher is doing everything it can to make some money on a game that is not making money from sales anymore. 1/3 of LRG games have been PS plus games. Thus, wouldnt it make sense that this is simply the publisher opting to make a few more bucks any way it can? This is not 'game preservation'. This is LRG and its consumers acting as a dumping ground.

But NOT ALL releases are like this. I am happy with a lot their releases. I can be critical, and still be a fan of theirs, and be happy with a lot of their other releases. Not everything is so black and white.

The core of my criticism comes from not wanting LRG to turn into a dumping ground for publishers. With all the PS plus LRG releases, its looking more and more that way.

 
nightc1 said:
The pattern was noticed pretty early on and it still holds true. That said, EOL publishing isn't exactly a bad idea for those that want some (or even all) of these games in physical form. It gives the publisher one last push and LRG makes some money as well.
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This is exactly what I hoping LRG does not become, or at least does not make a lot of their releases. There is nothing special about a game that is simply released EOL to make a few bucks for the publisher.

I guess this is pretty much the entire point I am trying to make.

 
nightc1 said:
The same will be true for all these physical games where there is DLC not on the cart/disc and required updates to fix certain issues and PSN is gone.

So the doom is for everything ultimately.
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That's just not accurate for most games LRG and others have released. With the exception of a couple of releases that have had non-critical patches and optional DLC that weren't on disc, every LRG will continue to function without an Internet or PSN connection so long as the physical media is readable and you have hardware to play it on.

 
I like having physical copies of digital releases since it means I can always play the game, I'm sure that if a title that LRG released gets pulled from PSN / XBL / etc for purchase due to expired licensing etc, you're gonna see the LRG release soar in resell value if it becomes the only method for hoping to purchase the title. I don't think it's happened with any of their titles thus far though?

 
The youth of the highly digital media age is teaching me one thing- you'd better have a backup etc because the content is not yours and / or is not as accessible as it should be. It will not always be there.
 
chrislaustin said:
I keep telling you Josh.........Some men you just can't reach!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLHZmVHSP7A

LOL!
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Its not Broken Age itself that I am criticizing, its the continuing trend of PS plus games. Broken Age was pretty good.

At first I think it was acceptable due to the fact the LRG was in its beginning stages, and people were excited for them as a company. I also think people were expecting the previous PS plus releases to trail off.

 
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mrliquid said:
I agree with the first half of your post. But i disagree that I am not their target market. I buy a lot of their releases, and a lot of the games that they release I am really excited for. What is the target market that you are referring to? Are you saying that I need to be happy with all of their releases to be the target market? Or be the die hard collector concerned about game 'preservation'? I am pointing out that they are starting to look like the middleman for publishers trying to make money on games that are no longer making money. IMO, this is not a good look.

The games with ps plus are not 'free', however $60 MRSP for Plus, divided by 12, divided by 6 = 83 cents per game. However, the value is not the core of the criticism I am making. Like I said, i am not concerned with losing the games when my PS plus expires, and I fully know I do not own these games. However I have played and finished them, and thus I dont care if I cant play the game in 20 yrs, nor do i care to play most games a second time after I finish them. You may care about that and make it one of the points to justify an LRG release, but I do not.

Games being released on PS plus is often an indicator that a Publisher is doing everything it can to make some money on a game that is not making money from sales anymore. 1/3 of LRG games have been PS plus games. Thus, wouldnt it make sense that this is simply the publisher opting to make a few more bucks any way it can? This is not 'game preservation'. This is LRG and its consumers acting as a dumping ground.

But NOT ALL releases are like this. I am happy with a lot their releases. I can be critical, and still be a fan of theirs, and be happy with a lot of their other releases. Not everything is so black and white.

The core of my criticism comes from not wanting LRG to turn into a dumping ground for publishers. With all the PS plus LRG releases, its looking more and more that way.
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LRG is not a subscription service and nobody is forcing you or anyone else to buy individual releases. On top of that, there are multiple competitors to LRG that have emerged in the past six months. Your whole argument seems to be that somehow just because various LRG games have been released as part of PS+ (a paid subscription service where you essentially are paying for a license to play the games until you stop paying your subscription fee in which case you own nothing.) that somehow those games are lesser than whatever else is out there and available to be licensed. That's just a false conclusion.

LRG has released a ton of great and critically acclaimed games and there has been demand here and elsewhere for Broken Age and I say that as a Kickstarter backer of the project that owns a physical PC big box of the game. Similarly, Sony has to deliver games that consumers will perceive to have value in connection with PS+ or people simply won't continue to subscribe. I mean, taking your argument to a logical conclusion, if a movie or television show appears on Netflix or Amazon or Hulu or HBO or Showtime, would you make the argument that there is no market for a physical release on BluRay? Do you really think people would subscribe to those SVOD and pay cable services if they just stocked themselves with garbage releases?

I would venture to guess that most LRG buyers are not people like yourself who don't really collect games, but buy them physically to play and resell. For gamers like you, buying a physical copy doesn't make much sense as it's a big investment up front and there is no real long term value to the purchase other than the resale value that LRG games seem to be pretty good about maintaining thus far. Gamers like you are probably better off sticking with PS+ or Gamefly or some other service which doesn't involve long-term ownership. Obviously, you're free to do what you want, but don't think for a minute that you represent LRG's target market or typical consumer.

 
PS Plus games aren't free. They are part of a subscription service that one has to pay for. Just sayin'.

 
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mrliquid said:
Its not Broken Age itself that I am criticizing, its the continuing trend of PS plus games. Broken Age was pretty good.

At first I think it was acceptable due to the fact the LRG was in its beginning stages, and people were excited for them as a company. I also think people were expecting the previous PS plus releases to trail off.
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Your entitled to your opinion, and there is really nothing wrong with voicing it, but I've seen how Josh really tries to please everyone, and it's never going to happen. They could offer Phoenix Wright on the 3DS tomorrow, as it was a well sought after title by many, and some would have an issue with that, as it's just the nature of business. The price would be to much, the game is being offered to late, why not get the other games in the series translated?

It's just a never ending cycle, and for Josh to get bent out of shape over it sometimes, it's just not worth it. I just try to keep things light around here, and show how no matter what, some people aren't going to be pleased with their best efforts. You bring up valid critiques, but they are nothing that haven't been mentioned here many times before, and as long as they offer these releases, they will continue to happen.

 
bojay1997 said:
Obviously, you're free to do what you want, but don't think for a minute that you represent LRG's target market or typical consumer.
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The blasphemy that is believing that I am in LRG's target market. I can't believe I am even responding to this. Are you the target market? Are you confused that we could both be in the same demographic, but that I don't display the same sycophantic behavior? Don't worry, we probably don't have anything else in common... other than both being in the LRG Target Market, of course.

I buy their games, lots of them. I am the target market. I am who they market their games to. 100%. I am a fan. I am not a reseller. I play through every game I buy from them. Sorry, you are wrong. End of story regardless of what you believe.

 
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Josh, thanks for this service you provide us, and thank you for coming here to post and address issues and to keep us up to date with what your company is doing.  I feel like it just needs to be said that there are some of us who appreciate what you do, and do not need to complain about every detail.  Nor do we need to dissect and discuss it like it is some sort of congressional hearing.  I suppose it is because we do not have time, because we are enjoying the fruits of your hard work, and hopefully you are enjoying the proceeds that your business generates in a similar fashion.   

 
mrliquid said:
I mean, is it just a coincidence that at least 1/3 or more of your releases were free on PS plus?

Finally, can you give us some examples of games you have turned down? That would be interesting to hear
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I can't dive into details on the specific titles because the devs of those games approached us likely expecting some level of discretion. I can say that we've easily turned away around 25 - 30 games. It may not seem like much, but consider that these are devs contacting us and not the other way around. Most of our releases have been folks we contacted. We actually backed out of some bad games we signed early on and I'm so thankful we did!

When you take a look at the raw review scores for the games we've published - they're all generally well-reviewed or games that had a large fanbase. We haven't published anything objectively bad.

Sony makes a conscious effort to sign good games for PS+. For reference, a developer can't just click a button to opt in to PS+. They have to be invited. Sony only picks games they enjoy or consider good games for that promotion. These are games that the platform holder themselves are acknowledging as solid titles - why would we not preserve those on physical media?

I don't think we can ever avoid putting out PS+ games. Most good games will end up as PS+ titles eventually.

I do want to say that once we get through the heavy amount of obscure games we signed in 2015/2016 we're going to slow things down dramatically. We're going to focus our efforts on signing bigger games that can suport larger runs, rather than several lesser known games with small print runs. I recognize we're releasing too much. We got overzealous with signing stuff that we liked. It's going to slow down in 2018.

I do sincerely appreciate the feedback. The only coincidence with the PS+ stuff is that PS+ games are generally very good games. They're titles that I fully believe deserve to be preserved, even if they were free to thousands of people.
 
Cagg said:
FTFY.
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You don't seem to understand the entire point of having games released physically. Collectors want them, especially for games they like. I bought Bit.trip runner 2 and Aqua Kitty (for both platforms) even though I already owned it digitally, don't care if any of these games were free for PS+. Physical versions of great games that would otherwise be digital-only is a great thing to many collectors, if you don't agree then just don't buy them. They'll sell out without your participation anyway.
 
Yall are getting way too fucking upset over a simple and innocently phrased question lmao. We're all so damn passionate about our games, it's pretty clear we at least have that in common.
 
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chimpmeister said:
You don't seem to understand the entire point of having games released physically. Collectors want them, especially for games they like. I bought Bit.trip runner 2 and Aqua Kitty (for both platforms) even though I already owned it digitally, don't care if any of these games were free for PS+. Physical versions of great games that would otherwise be digital-only is a great thing to many collectors, if you don't agree then just don't buy them. They'll sell out without your participation anyway.
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Did you quote me accidentally or something? I was just making the point that PS Plus games aren't free. I don't care about any of the other stuff you're talking about...at all.

Sony probably loves the "free for PS+" phrasing...makes them seem generous and makes people think that PS Plus is an amazing deal because of all the "free" games.

From my perspective, I pay for a PS Plus membership, and I get stuff included in that membership, such as games.

That being said, I love PS Plus, so don't think I'm bashing it. Shit ain't free, though. This is all highly off topic...oh well.

 
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Oisterboy said:
Yall are getting way too fucking upset over a simple and innocently phrased question lmao. We're all so damn passionate about our games, it's pretty clear we at least have that in common.
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LRG threads are always like this... there's always a hardcore group of loyalists and a hardcore group of dickweeds.

 
Cagg said:
Did you quote me accidentally or something? I was just making the point that PS Plus games aren't free. I don't care about any of the other stuff you're talking about...at all.

Sony probably loves the "free for PS+" phrasing...makes them seem generous and makes people think that PS Plus is an amazing deal because of all the "free" games.

From my perspective, I pay for a PS Plus membership, and I get stuff included in that membership, such as games.

That being said, I love PS Plus, so don't think I'm bashing it. Shit ain't free, though. This is all highly off topic...oh well.
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I meant to quote mrliquid, sorry.
 
WingsDJY said:
So this is what the world has come to? Non-unboxing unboxing videos?
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I know I had to laugh at that.

I actually open mine, but since I don't think they have manuals it wouldn't be very interesting for me to make videos :/ The only thing you'd see beyond that video is the cartridge sicker.

 
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I was curious what the actual split was so i started copying and pasting into 2 columns in release order. The split was actually worse for much of the early existence of LRG, closer to 50%, but since March they've had a good run of non-PS+ releases so now it's closer to 40/60 for titles that have been released or have an announced release date.

 
WingsDJY said:
So this is what the world has come to? Non-unboxing unboxing videos?
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Oisterboy said:
I know I had to laugh at that.

I actually open mine, but since I don't think they have manuals it wouldn't be very interesting for me to make videos :/ The only thing you'd see beyond that video is the cartridge sicker.
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csbaker-az said:
Unboxing a 2x4 bought at Home Depot and unboxing things with see thru packaging (eg Amiibo).
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An actual noob said:
Idk what the point of unboxing the shipping box was lololol
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LMAOL... My wife told me the same thing... I almost didn't put it up... but I figured, w/e

 
How come LRG doesn't include full manuals and soundtracks with the releases like Play-Asia games? When I bought Hyper Light Drifter from iam8bitgames I got a very nice 24 page manual and other goodies!

Ex. Shantae and Aqua Kitty are a fold piece of paper with legal statements inside as a "manual" :( I'm sure people would pay $5 more knowing that will get a phat manual + soundtrack when available included!

peace!

 
Special Reserve Games' website is wonky. My goodness! Shadow Warrior 2 was "sold out" for me until I logged in. Then, lo and behold, it was available for pre-order.
 
Manuals take a significant amount of work for the developers to lay out. Most struggle to commit the time to do a disc release in the first place - requiring a manual from them would be deal-breaker for some. We have put out plenty of games with manuals or pack-ins, though. We'll do whatever the devs want when it comes to this stuff.
 
Yeah, not LRG but am glad to have got in SRG limited Shadow Warrior 2. Their pricing structure is kind of crazy. I ordered just the PS4 game (2500 copies) and it cost $45 after shipping. It includes the physical game and some numbered extra thing. It's literally the price of the digital game plus shipping. And it also includes steam keys for SW1&2. I'm assuming the only way they could pull that off is if they're a subsidiary of Devolver right? Otherwise I can't see how they're making money. Anyway I'm glad to pick it up, I absolutely loved Shadow Warrior 1
 
Thanks for the heads up, placed an order. Would have loved to get the Big Wang set- only 50 vinyls made... pretty nuts but oh well. Great price too, I've been meaning to play the first and it's nice that they throw in the Steam key here.

EDIT* Is this a dual disc release? This page lists discs for both SW1 and SW 2- but only shows 1 disc. 

https://www.specialreservegames.com/reserves/shadow-warrior-2 

 
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Vinny said:
Thanks for the heads up, placed an order. Would have loved to get the Big Wang set- only 50 vinyls made... pretty nuts but oh well. Great price too, I've been meaning to play the first and it's nice that they throw in the Steam key here.

EDIT* Is this a dual disc release? This page lists discs for both SW1 and SW 2- but only shows 1 disc.

https://www.specialreservegames.com/reserves/shadow-warrior-2
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They list the disc for SW1 as a separate item so I assume it's on a different disc.

 
Doomstink said:
Manuals take a significant amount of work for the developers to lay out. Most struggle to commit the time to do a disc release in the first place - requiring a manual from them would be deal-breaker for some. We have put out plenty of games with manuals or pack-ins, though. We'll do whatever the devs want when it comes to this stuff.
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Don't all Vita games have digital manuals? I thought Sony required them for Vita games? I checked a bunch of games and they all had them and they all looked ready to be printed. Some were really fantastic (La-Mulana EX, Ray Gigant) and even some PSP games had them (Trails of the Sky has a 90 page digital manual!). So at least for vita games, it seems the only decision is if it's worth doing.

Personally I don't care about manuals. I don't think it's worth doing if it means the game price is going to spike a lot. It's great to get one if the game is really special to me as it makes getting a physical copy that much more worth it. But it's not a deal breaker since most games don't have physical manuals anyway. Physical manuals have gone away from the norm much like the norm for getting PC games is getting them digital.

 
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