LOST Season 5 Discussion - 5/13: The Incident -

So jack is the dead person they found in the back of the Van who had the WORKMAN outfit on

99.44% no. That was presumed to be Ben's father, who died in uniform, in a Dharma van.

and the Time rip hasnt happen yet since its been 3 years on the island and off

Could you repeat (rephrase) the question?

If ben meet all of these people when he was younger why wouldnt he know them when he first saw them when they crashed

Knowing Ben, he probably did. As a matter of fact, his reactions to them in Season Two suddenly seem to have extra depth (although who knows if that was the writers' plan at the time).
 
[quote name='JJSP']Rousseau placed her own distress call back in 1988 - that's the one they picked up in French on the beach during the earlier seasons. The radio tower was turned off in 2004, so when they flew back to the island in present-day, there shouldn't have been any transmissions coming off of the island.[/QUOTE]

that would be true if they crash landed in 2004 just after they shut it off. but they are in 2007 and 3 years have passed since then. someone could have put the numbers back on in the 3 year span, after all we have no idea what happened on the island during those 3 years.

the other possibility would be that they are in an alternate future. but the producers specifically said "30 years earlier" in the transition, i refuse to believe they would outright lie like that just to throw us of from believing its pre 1988.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']So jack is the dead person they found in the back of the Van who had the WORKMAN outfit on

99.44% no. That was presumed to be Ben's father, who died in uniform, in a Dharma van.

and the Time rip hasnt happen yet since its been 3 years on the island and off

Could you repeat (rephrase) the question?

If ben meet all of these people when he was younger why wouldnt he know them when he first saw them when they crashed

Knowing Ben, he probably did. As a matter of fact, his reactions to them in Season Two suddenly seem to have extra depth (although who knows if that was the writers' plan at the time).[/QUOTE]


time rip.... remember the time on the island was different then the time off the island.. well in the 70s seems the time was flowning at the same time, so something had to cause a time rip
 
Pretty good episode last night. Did anyone notice how many group photos were on the wall? I figure there would be one for each year's new recruits.

So I guess it's up to Sun and Lapidus to bring the folks back to the present. I really doubt they will travel to the past. I think that's awesome how the runway was being built back in season 3. And I thought I was seeing things when I saw the blond in the back ground in the Darma house. I had to rewind it a few times to make sure it was there.
 
[quote name='KingDox']

So I guess it's up to Sun and Lapidus to bring the folks back to the present..[/QUOTE]

im sure they will help, but john is the go to guy.
 
That's Ben's dad in the van. Ben poisoned him and left him to rot in the van. Whereas the rest of the Dharma people killed by him were given burials, pretty much sums up how much Ben respected his father. Horace was the only one Ben had a fatherly love for. My guess is Ethan was spared out of respect for Horace. Somehow I don't see how an adult Ethan would be cool with Ben killing his father though, that's the only plot hole I'm seeing since they revealed the identity of the baby. Unless Ethan was kidnapped by hostiles at such a young age that he never knew his father?

"If ben meet all of these people when he was younger why wouldnt he know them when he first saw them when they crashed"

He did. Remember "the list"? The one he gave Michael. Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Jack. All on the list. So perhaps he remembers them, but what's confusing is the Juliet angle.
 
time rip.... remember the time on the island was different then the time off the island.. well in the 70s seems the time was flowning at the same time, so something had to cause a time rip

Okay. Last season, we saw that for physical objects (not radio transmissions), there was a time discrepancy between what was within the radius of the island's influence and what was outside it. (It didn't seem to be a uniform duration, but for what it's worth, Dan's experiment rocket landed 31 (15+16 or 23 + 8) minutes late. And the doctor's dead body washed up 'before' Keamy slashed his throat.) We also saw that the Hydra Station island disappeared with the main island. So one can assume they are always in synch with one another, temporally speaking.

For the current season, I don't think the on-island/off-island time discrepancy is a factor like it was last season. For the first half of this season, the island and the non-Others on it were moving through Time (and Space). How this related to the 'real world' was irrelevant until Flight 316. Even then, it appears that Jack, Kate, "Hoo-go", and Sayid were 'Raptured' off the plane, while the plane itself was merely brought to the island in the show's 2007 'present day'. Hence, Sun and Frank are on the main island in 2007. There is no time "rip" between the two islands, and--for now, anyway--the time weirdness between the island and the world outside of its radius or bubble is irrelevant.

I hope this...helps?

EDIT: but what's confusing is the Juliet angle.

What confuses me about the "Juliet angle" is why she moved through Time when the rest of the Others didn't. Did they officially exile her through some act that severed some sort of mystical bond she had with them and whatever force(s) they served? Did she do something that differentiated her from the Others, regardless of what they felt about her? I don't think it's a 'born on the island' issue, and I don't think it can be a "they're all already dead or they're immortal and she's not" angle. Although we haven't seen them in awhile, we can safely assume that Cindy the stewardess and the kids from the tail section didn't move through Time. To me, that indicates that those that did make the jumps were selected by a source of intelligence. The reason for Juliet is the most intriguing, I think.
 
May have already been mentioned but...
Anyone else think Daniel is Jacob? Runs off, becomes crazy hermit, knows about the future/ what has to happen. Just a random thought.
 
Anyone else think Daniel is Jacob?

This idea is gaining momentum with me. But...I seem to recall that we've been told by those involved with the show that Jacob is someone we've already seen, and that we were told this before Season Four began. I might be getting my real world info/show timeline wrong, though.

Something tells me we'll still be guessing this time next year, too. I just hope that when we learn, ABC doesn't promote the hell out of that episode. I want to be blindsided by it. That's when this show is at its best.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']Anyone else think Daniel is Jacob?

This idea is gaining momentum with me. But...I seem to recall that we've been told by those involved with the show that Jacob is someone we've already seen, and that we were told this before Season Four began. I might be getting my real world info/show timeline wrong, though. [/QUOTE]

Wouldn't make much sense given how Richard seems aware of who Jacob is in 1954.

Could still be possible I suppose but that would involve more cheap time travel bits. And still woulldn't make much sense. Meh, I really wish they hadn't decided to use time travel to anchor the plot like this. It smacks of desperation.
 
[quote name='slidecage']why did Hugos case leapped with him when noone elses luggage went with them... ALL I can think of is the tie he had with charlie[/QUOTE]

I think he was holding it when the flash struck, so it would go with him.
 
Wouldn't make much sense given how Richard seems aware of who Jacob is in 1954.

Could still be possible I suppose but that would involve more cheap time travel bits. And still woulldn't make much sense. Meh, I really wish they hadn't decided to use time travel to anchor the plot like this. It smacks of desperation.

Well, a lot of people tend to think that Jacob is someone we've already seen, and have thought that since late in Season Three. Maybe we're wrong, but if we're not, that means that some sort of time screwiness had to occur before we even knew what was going to happen this season. Granted, I think that people that aren't fans of this show resorting to blatant, physical displacement of characters in Time might be more willing to give the spirit of a deceased character a pass, as they are no longer "enslaved by Time and Space" (hear: the Room 23 video played backwards). So maybe we won't learn Jacob's identity until a character dies (or if it's Locke, that's already happened), as Ben or someone else can't trap a living person.

EDIT: Also, we've already seen the time-skippers affecting the ancient past, and Christian was wandering around in a subterranean cave at that point.

More generally speaking, time travel is always a risky plot device and writers tend to rely on it far too much as an 'easy out' for any corners they've painted themselves into (which usually leads to inconsistencies and paradoxes that they didn't catch...or didn't care enough about to work through). With this show, for me, the verdict's still out. The time jumps this season were far too convenient to be mere chance. If/when we learn of the intelligence directing them, then I'll be far more understanding of such plot developments. If they decide to leave that up to fan debate, then I'll assume that they're just using that 'stoking the forum fires' mentality as an excuse for laziness. Given that The Island or whoever (or whatever) seemingly handpicked those it 'Raptured' from the plane back into 1977, I don't think it's just extremely convenient randomness.

This show has always had the Science v. Faith issue buzzing around between the foreground and background. I think in hindsight, it's pretty clear that what timespace is and how limited our perception of it is, is the other central issue of the show, one that goes hand-in-hand with the aforementioned debate. We're finally seeing a more direct application of the latter in the story, even if the storytelling itself is arguably more uneven this season.
 
Christian
is Jacob. We talked about this a long time ago, and even had pics of the "rocking chair scene" to semi-confirm it, barring any twists.
 
I'll generally agree that things need to be given more time to pan out before judgment can really be cast. However, a lot of the '74-'77 stuff has ranged from partially (Ethan's age) to blatantly (what happened to Horace's other wife?) inconsistent with previous seasons. While I'll accept that the ultimate conclusion may be satisfactory, it doesn't leave me feeling any less jerked around at the moment.
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']
Christian
is Jacob. We talked about this a long time ago, and even had pics of the "rocking chair scene" to semi-confirm it, barring any twists.[/QUOTE]

With all due respect, I wouldn't be too confident about that. When asked point-blank by Locke, he said "No...but I can speak on his behalf." Sure, maybe he's lying, maybe in the scheme of timespace mayhem, he gets off on a technicality (as in, Jacob is his being from an alternate timeline or from some future point sent to the past), but if Christian ends up being Jacob, I think a lot of fans will cry foul and even at its lowest point, I think this show is above that sort of stunt. There would essentially be no shock to the revelation whatsoever.

But again, we'll probably be in the dark for many episodes to come.
 
My personal guess is, especially with all this time travel stuff, is that Locke is Jacob. Would explain why Locke could never see Jacob I suppose, with something to prevent him from seeing a future/past version of himself.

Add in all the stuff of Ben, Richard etc. telling him how important he is....

Especially Ben, who's probably seen Jacob and knows that Locke will become him.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']My personal guess is, especially with all this time travel stuff, is that Locke is Jacob.[/quote]


agreed. Locke will be Jacob
 
Bringing a little of the "cheapass" into this thread, Geronimo Jackson's "Dharma Lady" is available for free (temporarily?) on iTunes. For those of you that weren't aware, yes, they were a real band. (EDIT: Or, at least, that's the producers' story, and they're stickin' to it.) It's the song Jin was listening to in the van when he discovered Jack, Kate, and "Hoo-go."

Be warned...anyone with an allergic reaction to anything approximating the Grateful Dead may want to pass, free or not. Personally, I found it at least tolerable. Definitely worth a free, legal download.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']Bringing a little of the "cheapass" into this thread, Geronimo Jackson's "Dharma Lady" is available for free (temporarily?) on iTunes. For those of you that weren't aware, yes, they were a real band. (EDIT: Or, at least, that's the producers' story, and they're stickin' to it.) It's the song Jin was listening to in the van when he discovered Jack, Kate, and "Hoo-go."

Be warned...anyone with an allergic reaction to anything approximating the Grateful Dead may want to pass, free or not. Personally, I found it at least tolerable. Definitely worth a free, legal download.[/QUOTE]

Any hints in the song? I dont believe them when they say it was a real band.
 
I haven't listened to the lyrics carefully at all. And you're almost certainly right about them not being a real band. Damon and Carlton had me going though, based on their insistence during last season's podcasts that they were. Hey, an obscure hippie band that they based a series-long set of references on isn't that implausible, is it? That was before the song "Dharma Lady," however.

Here's the Lostpedia page with the lyrics. Not particularly revealing, at least from what I can tell. Maybe it's just in reference to the relationship drama(s) going on right now.
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']He did. Remember "the list"? The one he gave Michael. Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Jack. All on the list. So perhaps he remembers them, but what's confusing is the Juliet angle.[/quote]

I have to disagree here. That list was pretty obviously explained in S3. Ben needed Jack to do his surgery. Kate to convince Jack. Sawyer to make Kate convince Jack. And Hurley because he would go back to camp with a warning to stay away but wouldn't put up a fight on his own.
 
[quote name='Jesus_S_Preston']I have to disagree here. That list was pretty obviously explained in S3. Ben needed Jack to do his surgery. Kate to convince Jack. Sawyer to make Kate convince Jack. And Hurley because he would go back to camp with a warning to stay away but wouldn't put up a fight on his own.[/QUOTE]

Yep. We still don't know the details of Jacob's list.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']My personal guess is, especially with all this time travel stuff, is that Locke is Jacob. Would explain why Locke could never see Jacob I suppose, with something to prevent him from seeing a future/past version of himself.

Add in all the stuff of Ben, Richard etc. telling him how important he is....

Especially Ben, who's probably seen Jacob and knows that Locke will become him.[/quote]

I think Richard is more likely to have actually seen Jacob than Ben. And Richard didn't know who Locke was when they 'first' met in the past. That's assuming Jacob keeps the form as who he was in the past too though(if its someone we've seen before)
 
holy freakin crap!
H'es not dead though, next week they have to convince jack to save his life.

Edit: Contains a "Spoiler" for next week's episode. Happy?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='jollydwarf']All I can say is..."Holy shit."

And that is what this show is all about.[/quote]

This. I honestly didn't see that ending coming.
 
[quote name='Segasonic01']holy freakin crap!
H'es not dead though, next week they have to convince jack to save his life.
[/quote]

Sadly, I believe Jack will save him, he'll live and he will have trust issues and become the backstabbing Ben we know today, leading to the purge.
 
Segasonic01, if that was an actual spoiler and not your own educated guess, then a.) grrr.... and b.) please edit your post so others know that it's not just a "spoiler" from this episode ("He's Our You").

I mean, either way, that wouldn't be the biggest shock in the world, but I really don't like to get ambushed with revelations, no matter how likely it was that one would guess that eventually anyway.
 
Okay...looks like I can't even safely enjoy discussion here.

There's only seven episodes left and the season finale is written, which means it's probably a good time to start avoiding anything LOST-related on the Internet. I'm tapping out for now. See everyone at roughly 10:03 P.M. EST on May 13th, I guess.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, though (pertaining to "He's Our You"),
I couldn't really see how young Ben was truly dead, as "If it didn't happen, it CAN'T happen." In other words, from what we've been able to piece together so far, what we're seeing already played out 'before', with the exception of Faraday's brief discussion with Desmond at the Swan's side door. By the same token, we don't know if Faraday and Hawking were wrong about being able to change the timeline.
 
You guys were really shocked by that ending? I called that around 9:20.

The last few eps have been really anticlimactic and predictable, I think.

Also, I demand another round of the Juliet/Kate catfight.
 
I don't understand why ya'll are so surprised by that ending. Would have been more surprising had he done anything else. I mean, what did you think was going to happen?

On the plus side, the next episode will probably look a bit familiar. It's even
a Kate episode,
to boot.
 
Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that Ben will live, hence why we see him in the future. Still, I think it would've been a great plot changer if he did actually die. And it's sorta impossible to believe he lives from this, but this is LOST and the Island has its 'powers'. Sayid's a bred killer, yet he fails to kill a young boy? wtffff. Well, I guess we won't really see what happens till next week. =p

I was surprised. I mean, I had an idea that it was a possible ending, but I didn't think it would actually happen.
 
well bens going to live, obviously. the question is, are the losties going to save him or the island (be it jacob, richard or whatever mysterious power is behind the whole thing).

im dying to see what the hell faraday has been up to...
 
Hey, LinkinPrime, how about you ban SegaSonic for posting that spoiler? Or at the very least, delete his post before someone else comes in and reads it thinking it's speculation on last night's episode.
 
Every time we see Ben in that sling with the cuts and bruises it makes me wonder if Desmond and Penny are OK.

Any word on if we'll get closure on that before the season is over?
 
I'm sure they have Desmond and Faraday episodes in the pipe before the end of the season. Or, at least, a joint Desmond/Faraday episode. Be pretty mean (and, quite frankly, boring) if they don't.

Just going by ep titles, The Variable sounds pretty Desmond-y. But I haven't looked at anything beyond that, so who knows.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']Hey, LinkinPrime, how about you ban SegaSonic for posting that spoiler? Or at the very least, delete his post before someone else comes in and reads it thinking it's speculation on last night's episode.[/quote]
What? Are you serious or joking? No one on here spoilers their speculation (for the most part). I am also not the first one to post what the next week's plot is. If your read the teaser for next week, it clearly says what I had hidden. :roll:
 
Don't worry about it, dude. You put spoiler tags on your post. It was a spoiler. No foul done. I think people are overreacting a bit.
 
I don't think it's a big deal, but a lot of people do put spoiler tags on stuff that's JUST happened in an episode, so I also didn't realize it was referring to something in the next episode. I guess it's kind of stupid that the only solution is to warn someone before clicking a spoiler tag that it's an actual spoiler (yeah, that sounds completely ridiculous), but because of the way the spoiler tag is used around here, I'd say it's probably the only way to do it. Not that any of that is your fault.
 
I admit I overreacted a bit, but it was the first post after the episode was over. That almost always means it's discussion of the episode that just aired.
 
eh, it's cool. Anyways, I really hope next week's is good, & not a copy of that other Season 3 episode like someone mentioned earlier. What do you guys think is going to play out in the season finale? Will Sun/Frank go to the 70's or will all the 70's people go to the present day? Or neither, & it is about the Purge? I really doubt its the Purge thing, because that would have to happen at least in the 80's.
 
Has it been mentioned why Sun didn't flash into the past with the others? Also wtf happened to Bernard, his wife and the rest of the originial oceanic survivors?
 
[quote name='homeland']Has it been mentioned why Sun didn't flash into the past with the others? Also wtf happened to Bernard, his wife and the rest of the originial oceanic survivors?[/QUOTE]

1. no

2. we have know idea. one would assume they are somewhere on the island in 1977, possibly with the others or their own camp.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top