Super Smash Bros. Brawl Site! Discussions Inside. Release Date: December 3, 2007

[quote name='SMMM']Not really. Dr. Mario was just Mario with a few tweaks to make him play a little differently. If that's alright, let's just have the entire time game different variations of Mario. It's ok because this Mario is a little faster, this one a little stronger, this ones standing-B does a couple percents more damage..

Might as well make it an RPG where you earn and add different "attribute points".[/quote]

Don't speak!

(jeeze, I know they were mainly tweak differences, don't take it seriously. DM is still way better.)
 
I'll let you handle the Dr. Mario / Mario "dispute," dallow. Don't let me down on that one.

I can't believe that I was excited to see Samus, despite the fact that we knew from day one she was in the game. It seems that they are going through with the zero suit being only available after that one move. Personally, I hope for a new proper trailer come E3 and some answers that aren't dated 2006.
 
[quote name='MarioColbert']I'll let you handle the Dr. Mario / Mario "dispute," dallow. Don't let me down on that one.[/quote]

Hehe, ok, I'll continue.

Tweak differences or not, they affect the character greatly.
For some reason, people can be Dr. Mario masters, and get beat like little girls if they even attempt playing with Mario. I've seen it first hand. Even I fare much better with DM.

Some percentage damage differences, and palette swaps aren't explained with that.

Whatevers though, cause Peach is my girl.
 
[quote name='dallow']Hehe, ok, I'll continue.

Tweak differences or not, they affect the character greatly.
For some reason, people can be Dr. Mario masters, and get beat like little girls if they even attempt playing with Mario. I've seen it first hand. Even I fare much better with DM.

Some percentage damage differences, and palette swaps aren't explained with that.

Whatevers though, cause Peach is my girl.[/QUOTE]

I'm not arguing against any (well most) of that. I'm just saying it was lazy on behalf of the developers. Instead of coming up with completely different characters with completely different movesets, abilities, and such forth, they took existing characters and tweaked them a bit. For every couple Dr. Marios or Pichus, we probably could've gotten a 100% unique and interesting characters...if you're going to have characters with similar styles, at least make them distinguishable with stuff other than their stats (Like Mario/Luigi in SSBM or Ryu/Ken post-SF2)

And no, percentage differences and palette swaps don't explain what your describing. All the other attributes combined with percent differences/palette swaps, on the other hand, do.
 
As a DM user, I agree with the both of you. It was a bit of a cop-out that there were a lot of clones, but at the same time, the way the tweaks were made, they play very differently.

The biggest difference is how they can recover. DM can use his down-b spin to help him get some more altitude to recover, and Mario can use his forward-b cape to help himself. They each suck at using the other move, for some reason, though...
 
[quote name='maigoyume']i'm a decent ganondorf user and i can't use captain falcon to save my life :bomb:[/quote]Me neither. I think it's because he drops like luggage from a plane.
 
[quote name='Mr. Beef']Me neither. I think it's because he drops like luggage from a plane.[/quote]that and falcon kick always ends up sending me off the edge more times than i can count
 
I don't really see too much of a problem with similar characters with the difference of a few moves and amount of frames. But I'm sure not too many people argued about having three different Ryu's in streetfighter (Ryu, Ken, Akuma...4 if you count Dan). But I do agree, Pichu was useless (maybe it was the joke character like Dan was).

Yes, the clones can play very different than their originals. Fox and Falco play very different, Marth and Roy play very different, Ganondorf and Cpt. Falcon play very different. These pairings definitely have more than one "tweak" to seperate them, and they have proven to play much differently. This would explain why Marth is high tier and Roy is in the lower bracket. I mean, something as small seeming as a change in weight fall speed can flip a character's world upside down.
 
[quote name='EXStrike']Pichu wasn't useless. I like playing as him more than playing as Pikachu.[/quote]Yeah I think Pichu is actually stronger. It does costs 1% health do an electric attack. I tried Pichu and he wasn't for me, I prefer classic Pikachu, but then again I am sure if I had to play Pichu I can easily addapt no problem.

Either way I am fine with them keeping characters like Dr. Mario, Pichu and such as long as they continue to diverse them. I mean don't go overboard but add some different changes the non Dr. Mario gamer could easily see and feel besides different animations and whatnot. As a player in Smash Bros, I was never good with Mario or Dr. Mario so I can't tell the differences that much. I wish they would change it a bit so I can tell the differences so I know which one I can suck less with, lol.
 
[quote name='halu102']I don't really see too much of a problem with similar characters with the difference of a few moves and amount of frames. But I'm sure not too many people argued about having three different Ryu's in streetfighter (Ryu, Ken, Akuma...4 if you count Dan). [/QUOTE]

Wrong..like I said, they had similar styles but they all have totally different moves in some areas that set them apart, as well as different attributes. If you want me to go more in detail, I could. Like Mario/Luigi; that, I wouldn't mind seeing more, as long as it makes sense.

Now that I think about it, if you prefer a clone to an original (or vice-versa), you probably just like how they feel/move/fall/ect. and not so much the actual moveset. If they changed the moveset around a bit, you'd still be pretty good with them just because the attributes haven't changed.
 
[quote name='SMMM']Wrong..like I said, they had similar styles but they all have totally different moves in some areas that set them apart, as well as different attributes. If you want me to go more in detail, I could. Like Mario/Luigi; that, I wouldn't mind seeing more, as long as it makes sense.

Now that I think about it, if you prefer a clone to an original (or vice-versa), you probably just like how they feel/move/fall/ect. and not so much the actual moveset. If they changed the moveset around a bit, you'd still be pretty good with them just because the attributes haven't changed.[/QUOTE]
Wrong?... I said they had different moves and frames, just like what you just said.

And Luigi is not a clone of Mario since they only share an n-air, d-air, b-air, d-tilt, f-tilt, Up-B, and Down-B that look similar (not quite all the moves), but even those are used differently and things like Luigi's floaty-ness and traction clearly differentiate him from Mario. Now, Dr. Mario is a clone of Mario since they share many, if not all of the same moves but each are given a different amount of frames, priority, damage, stun time, etc. Another is Marth and Roy... These pairings share the same motions in all of their moves (I'm not talking about the "attributes"). If you have a different idea of clones, fine with me.

And, if you care to explain why my opinion is wrong, go ahead. But yeah, I could be wrong about the streetfighter remark, since that is a baseless assumption...
 
[quote name='halu102']Wrong?... I said they had different moves and frames, just like what you just said.

And Luigi is not a clone of Mario since they only share an n-air, d-air, b-air, d-tilt, f-tilt, Up-B, and Down-B that look similar (not quite all the moves), but even those are used differently and things like Luigi's floaty-ness and traction clearly differentiate him from Mario. Now, Dr. Mario is a clone of Mario since they share many, if not all of the same moves but each are given a different amount of frames, priority, damage, stun time, etc. Another is Marth and Roy... These pairings share the same motions in all of their moves (I'm not talking about the "attributes"). If you have a different idea of clones, fine with me.

And, if you care to explain why my opinion is wrong, go ahead. But yeah, I could be wrong about the streetfighter remark, since that is a baseless assumption...[/QUOTE]


oh sorry, I wasn't referring to your first statement at all. I should've taken it out of the quote. Just the assumption that Ryu/Ken/Akuma/Dan are all clones, which they aren't. I was comparing the differences between Ryu/Ken and the differences between Mario/Luigi, which I agree aren't clones.
 
Luigi is COMPLETELY different from Mario, save for sharing a few moves (uppercut and spinning punch). He's a character I hope remains unchanged in Brawl.

I know this because I will kick your ass with Luigi, but only part of the time with Mario.
 
[quote name='Strell']Luigi is COMPLETELY different from Mario, save for sharing a few moves (uppercut and spinning punch). He's a character I hope remains unchanged in Brawl.

I know this because I will kick your ass with Luigi, but only part of the time with Mario.[/quote]

x2, and the spinning punch and uppercut are completely different between the 2
 
[quote name='Strell']Luigi is COMPLETELY different from Mario, save for sharing a few moves (uppercut and spinning punch). He's a character I hope remains unchanged in Brawl.

I know this because I will kick your ass with Luigi, but only part of the time with Mario.[/QUOTE]


he does have the only taunt that does damage
 
[quote name='chodax']x2, and the spinning punch and uppercut are completely different between the 2[/QUOTE]

Yeah. The uppercut on Luigi is very weak UNLESS you hit them right when you initiate it. If you do, it's very powerful and generally can be compared to Jigglypuff's sleep attack, since it will make the same sound. I don't know the exact percentages - I'm just saying it's more powerful.

The spinning punch I'm not too sure about, as I don't really use it. But I've since learned that it can be useful.
 
I'll tip my hat into the slightly different characters argument; I'm at my best with Y. Link, but suck ballz with regular Link. Sad, but true.
 
[quote name='SMMM']oh sorry, I wasn't referring to your first statement at all. I should've taken it out of the quote. Just the assumption that Ryu/Ken/Akuma/Dan are all clones, which they aren't. I was comparing the differences between Ryu/Ken and the differences between Mario/Luigi, which I agree aren't clones.[/QUOTE]
Well, in the Alpha/MvC series Ryu, Ken and Akuma have the same movesets though I know there are differences in their moves. But all three have hurricane kicks, shoryukens, hadoukens etc. which I think qualifies them to be clones of each other. Yes, I know Ryu's fireball is large and moves horizontal and Akuma's is smaller is a different color and moves at a downward angle, but they are both fireballs and their respective moves are both called hadoukens. They're more like Mario/Dr. Mario or Fox/Falco than Mario/Luigi I think, again because they have the same moves (most if not all the same motions) though different applications for the same move among the three. An exception though would be the supers which differentiate them and Akuma's added moves like the air diving kick or his shadow sliding/stepping. Though, I'm not sure about the 3s scene, since I have barely played any of that installment.

Basically what I meant by clone is the same moveset (they can have different applications of these moves, but fall under the same motion/appearance and name of the move)
 
These final smashes look VISCIOUS! The Mario final smash from the Nintendo World video is ridiculously large and crazy, and if Kirby's boiling move against Mario in E3 video is Kirby's, they're also pretty cinematic.

I can't decide if this is more of a Street Fighter thing or a Power Stone technique. I'm leaning towards Power Stone.
 
Does anyone know SAMUS' final smash?? pretty sure it'll be flashy like a barrage of missile or hyper beam from the end of super metroid
 
Every update is worth it just for the captions:

You don’t have time to ponder such questions, as Link has just grabbed a Smash Ball.

When you receive a present, open it!

I-I… I want it!
 
gahaha love it, guess i wasn't the only one who found those amusing :applause:

"It sticks to them! Get... GET IT OFF!"

"Then it explodes! Oh, the horror!"

"Gotta heft this thing! Hurrrgh!"
 
wait whats the boss/bosses in brawl the right and left hand thing was pretty weird

they should have the character ur playin as arch-nemesis as the boss like samus fights ridley mario vs giga bowser SLUG VS SALT 0.0
 
I'll probably get bored of the Final Smashes after a few viewings, I'll either turn that item off, or hopefully you can skip the cinema.
 
[quote name='dallow']I'll probably get bored of the Final Smashes after a few viewings, I'll either turn that item off, or hopefully you can skip the cinema.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm the same way.
 
I'm pretty impressed with the graphics/art I've seen so far. Obviously it's not 1080p, but it looks pretty good. Hopefully it'll look the same playing it at home.
 
So I guess I'm late to the part with this comment, but since I haven't check for a while:

Huh. I wonder how the controls will work.
 
I wonder how you will target the moves at other players? Can you miss? Is the whole screen going to change to the cinematic of one guy beating up the other one? Or is the whole field still in view? Can the move be interrupted?
Personally, Im not too fond of the idea of doing the move by getting the item. But then again I cant think of any other way. What I think will make it great though, is the timing of when this item shows, having it appear when one person is winning and the other has +/-200% (depending on char). Makes it a mad scramble for it. You could end up with one cool looking finishing move, or a serious upset/ comeback.

I think the Final Smash thing is going to make or break the game, at least, when you turn it on in the items menu.

That reminds me, what will Snake's final smash be? Heh, strangling by wire...assassination by silenced pistol... slit throat by knife... sprinkled with all sorts of shiny effects.

I cant imagine playing it with only wiimote, you prolly have to hit a combo of buttons for things to work. Also using a Dpad...
 
[quote name='AmigoOne']
I cant imagine playing it with only wiimote, you prolly have to hit a combo of buttons for things to work. Also using a Dpad...[/QUOTE]

I actually prefer D-pads to analog sticks for fighting games....just not the dinky one on the Wiimote.

I have a feeling the classic controller will be my favorite option.
 
[quote name='hohez']Tonights update - Pikachu's Final Smash Volt Tackle.[/QUOTE]

"Hunt them! Hunt them down!"

Sakurai must be a hilarious guy in real life.
 
Dude, what are you guys TALKING about! This looks like a fast, flying Donkey Kong Mallet! In my opinion, that kicks way more ass than a focused attack like Link's Final Smash. Just hold on to that Final Smash ball til everyone's over 70%, and bust out Pikachu's Final Smash... Grand slam!

Now I sound like Sakurai.
 
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