The 2013-14 NFL Thread

n8rockerasu said:
Ya know...I was just thinking that Tim Tebow has become basically a modern day Doug Flutie. Flutie was quickly written off as not being "NFL capable", and nobody wanted to give him a chance. I'm not even a Tebow fanboy (I honestly don't care about him one way or the other), but it just feels incredibly odd to me that a team like the Packers feels more comfortable with Scott Tolzein starting than they would Tim Tebow.

Even with the Titans situation...Ryan Fitzpatrick is better than Tim Tebow? Really? The only consideration I could have is that the guy is just so full of himself that he's a locker room cancer...and between that and the media circus, teams would actually rather lose than have to deal with it. But when you look at some of the guys getting snaps around the league right now...it just blows my mind, lol.

I will say though, at least Flutie was willing to do ANYTHING to prove people wrong, and had a great career in the CFL, before returning to the NFL, winning Comeback Player of the Year, and making the Pro Bowl. Tebow could learn something there. Play well elsewhere and you'll easily find your way back.
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He can't throw. There is no other league for him to play in. People like to say this, but in every other league the ability to throw the ball is the number one requirement, even more so than the NFL. You only have 3 downs in Canada. You have to be able to throw and he can't throw.

 
CaseyRyback said:
He can't throw. There is no other league for him to play in. People like to say this, but in every other league the ability to throw the ball is the number one requirement, even more so than the NFL. You only have 3 downs in Canada. You have to be able to throw and he can't throw.
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I'm sorry. But I think it's ridiculous to suggest that he could have success at the college level...and even lead an NFL team into the playoffs, winning a game...but yet he's completely devoid of talent. I've read a lot of stuff about Tebow. In addition to "not being able to throw", he's supposedly not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to learning an offense either. At some point, you start to wonder how much of it is conjecture.

I'm not saying he's a good QB...but he's definitely athletic, and some might even say he's a playmaker. And some guys just know how to win. My argument is there are A LOT of terrible QBs in the NFL. And I just don't buy that Tebow is actually worse (in terms of skill) than Christian Ponder...or Derek Anderson...or Chad Henne...or Seneca Wallace. Seems like there's plenty of room for awful QBs in the league.
 
You guys realize why Tebow hasn't gotten another job right? You have to totally change the offensive system you run for him to play. Which is fine in theory, but the minute he gets injured, you have to change your entire system AGAIN. This is something you don't want to do during the course of an NFL season.

There's probably 4 teams at least who would have a better chance at winning games right now with Tim Tebow as their QB. But he's not a viable long term solution, the more games he wins for you, the less of a chance you get to landing a true franchise QB. And if you don't have one, you are ALWAYS playing for next year.

Most teams also don't want the media circus it brings. It's unfortunate but that's what it is. I can't feel too bad for Tebow, he's going to have a very nice life, with or without football.
 
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DestroVega said:
You guys realize why Tebow hasn't gotten another job right? You have to totally change the offensive system you run for him to play. Which is fine in theory, but the minute he gets injured, you have to change your entire system AGAIN. This is something you don't want to do during the course of an NFL season.

There's probably 4 teams at least who would have a better chance at winning games right now with Tim Tebow as their QB. But he's not a viable long term solution, the more games he wins for you, the less of a chance you get to landing a true franchise QB. And if you don't have one, you are ALWAYS playing for next year.

Most teams also don't want the media circus it brings. It's unfortunate but that's what it is. I can't feel too bad for Tebow, he's going to have a very nice life, with or without football.
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I definitely agree with the media circus. That's just what makes it so comical. That teams have probably considered Tebow and then said "Meh...losing isn't so bad." lol. And he did that to himself, so he's got nobody to blame there. I just think the notion that he's any less qualified than Matt Cassel or Brady Quinn or any of the other guys I mentioned, is silly. Other than "the hype" there's really no reason he couldn't be a solid backup. I definitely don't think he's a guy to build your franchise around...but if you're going to actually try to win games when your starter goes down...teams could (and do) do a lot worse.
 
If he just got the standard fare hype during his playoff run, he would probably have a job somewhere. But ESPN stalking him (seriously, devoting the entire day to celebrating Tebow's birthday? Just sad) when he went to the Jets killed any chance Tebow had.
 
An...interesting game at Tampa. Miami was just awful for 3/4 of the game, though I think not having 2 OL starters on the field hurt more than the media storm.
 
DestroVega said:
You guys realize why Tebow hasn't gotten another job right? You have to totally change the offensive system you run for him to play. Which is fine in theory, but the minute he gets injured, you have to change your entire system AGAIN. This is something you don't want to do during the course of an NFL season.
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This. Precisely. When your starting quarterback goes down, you realize your back-up is not going to be able to do ALL of the things the starter can. That's why he is just the back-up. But he can at least run a modified version of your offense. That's why he's your back-up. Tebow can't run an NFL offense. He's completed less than 50% of his passes in his short career, in a league where 60%+ is the norm. At the end of the day, the guy just doesn't have anything close to NFL passing ability. Great athlete...terrible quarterback.

That being said, I was still hoping the Jags would, at some point, say "screw it, we suck, let's sell some tickets" and bring Tebow in for a look.

 
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No idea why I'm getting this invested in this, but it is an interesting discussion, lol. Here's Tebow's career numbers in relation to several other QBs who currently have jobs in the NFL.

Tim Tebow - 47.9% - 17 TDs - 9 INTs - 75.3 QBR

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13200/tim-tebow

Bruce Gradkowski - 52.9% - 21 TDs - 24 INTs - 65.8 QBR

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9780/bruce-gradkowski

Blaine Gabbert - 53.3% - 22 TDs - 24 INTs - 66.4 QBR

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13987/blaine-gabbert

Brady Quinn - 53.8% - 12 TDs - 17 INTs - 64.4 QBR

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/10466/brady-quinn

Josh Johnson - 54.2% - 5 TDs - 10 INTs - 57.7 QBR

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/11394/josh-johnson

Charlie Whitehurst - 54.2% - 3 TDs - 4 INTs - 64.6 QBR

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9667/charlie-whitehurst

Mark Sanchez - 55.1% - 68 TDs - 69 INTs - 71.7 QBR

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/12482/mark-sanchez

Terrelle Pryor - 57.5% - 7 TDs - 11 INTs - 69.2 QBR

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14851/terrelle-pryor

And that's just the AFC...shall we look through the NFC? Again, I'm not even remotely trying to say that Tebow is a "good quarterback". But he is easily at least on par with these guys. And if you look at the numbers, for whatever reason, he gets better results. He completion percentage might not be as high...but he wasn't making mistakes at nearly as high of a pace as these guys either. Again, just like Flutie...he wasn't conventional, but he was finding a way.

Now, if you just want to say that the media circus, locker room, etc. doesn't make him worth the trouble, that's fine. Plenty of players have lost jobs for similar reasons (though, usually it's for being a douche). But dressing it up as though he lacks skill that this list of players somehow possess is BS.

 
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I think the completion percentage is what really hurts him, while he's not making mistakes, he's really not doing anything to make things happen either.  I mean, below 50 percent is crazy in this age.  I would argue outside of Pryor who only just started his career, most of those guys aren't thought of as starting material anymore.

 
soulvengeance said:
I think the completion percentage is what really hurts him, while he's not making mistakes, he's really not doing anything to make things happen either. I mean, below 50 percent is crazy in this age. I would argue outside of Pryor who only just started his career, most of those guys aren't thought of as starting material anymore.
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Can you show me where I was suggesting that Tebow should be a starting QB? That's not the discussion we're having here.
 
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Damn. Quentin Groves is on the IR now for the Browns. I wouldn't be surprised if they've had to put 10 players on the IR this season (Brian Hoyer, Dion Lewis, Travis Benjamin, Quentin Groves, Josh Aubrey, and Montario Hardesty come to mind right away) or will at least do so by the end of the season.

 
n8rockerasu said:
Can you show me where I was suggesting that Tebow should be a starting QB? That's not the discussion we're having here.
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Sorry about that. I don't think he could be a backup either for the same reasons I mentioned. The other issue is that Tebow sees himself as being a starter, and not a backup.

 
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n8rockerasu said:
No idea why I'm getting this invested in this, but it is an interesting discussion, lol. Here's Tebow's career numbers in relation to several other QBs who currently have jobs in the NFL.
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The difference between Tebow and most of the guys you listed, though, is that Dan Orlovsky, for example, can run the same offense that Josh Freeman was running and that Mike Glennon is running now. He might not have the arm to make certain throws, or there might be routes he prefers to work with, but he can still run an NFL offense. Tebow can't. If you put Tebow into a traditional NFL offense, his numbers would get even worse than they were. Way worse.

Just look at what he did this preseason. He was 11 for 30 with 2 TDs and 2 picks. And that was him playing against guys who were gonna be packing groceries when the season finally started. You can argue that it was just preseason, and guys often look rusty, but this was Tebow's one shot to show someone, anyone that he could play. He was trying out there. He just couldn't perform.

If you mold an offense around him, yes, he can be ok, but no one wants to invest the time in that, especially for a back-up QB. A back-up QB needs to be someone who can come in when your starter gets hurt and not completely and utter implode.

 
n8rockerasu said:
I'm sorry. But I think it's ridiculous to suggest that he could have success at the college level...and even lead an NFL team into the playoffs, winning a game...but yet he's completely devoid of talent. I've read a lot of stuff about Tebow. In addition to "not being able to throw", he's supposedly not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to learning an offense either. At some point, you start to wonder how much of it is conjecture.

I'm not saying he's a good QB...but he's definitely athletic, and some might even say he's a playmaker. And some guys just know how to win. My argument is there are A LOT of terrible QBs in the NFL. And I just don't buy that Tebow is actually worse (in terms of skill) than Christian Ponder...or Derek Anderson...or Chad Henne...or Seneca Wallace. Seems like there's plenty of room for awful QBs in the league.
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They didn't go to the playoffs because of Tebow and they didn't win a playoff game because of him. They won because they had a great defense and a solid running game. Let's also not forget that he came back and won a sorry ass division.

That throw he made to beat Pittsburgh was a throw that a high school QB should complete 9 times out of 10.

He won at Florida because he had amazing talent around him and they were able to use athletic ability to beat up the teams they played. That is how college football works. If you recruit you pretty much should win (For the guy who says that USC disproves this, Lane Kiffin would still be the coach if they weren't docked 25 scholarships).

 
Let's also not forget what Tebow did the game AFTER they beat the Steelers. He went 9 of 26 versus the Pats, and it's not like that Pat defense was that great. They gave up nearly 400 yards against the Ravens and Giants afterwards.

 
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Ed Reed released by Texams, expected to clear waivers today, and possible landing spot is New England, due to the need of a safety according to reports.

 
bigdaddybruce44 said:
The difference between Tebow and most of the guys you listed, though, is that Dan Orlovsky, for example, can run the same offense that Josh Freeman was running and that Mike Glennon is running now. He might not have the arm to make certain throws, or there might be routes he prefers to work with, but he can still run an NFL offense. Tebow can't. If you put Tebow into a traditional NFL offense, his numbers would get even worse than they were. Way worse.

Just look at what he did this preseason. He was 11 for 30 with 2 TDs and 2 picks. And that was him playing against guys who were gonna be packing groceries when the season finally started. You can argue that it was just preseason, and guys often look rusty, but this was Tebow's one shot to show someone, anyone that he could play. He was trying out there. He just couldn't perform.

If you mold an offense around him, yes, he can be ok, but no one wants to invest the time in that, especially for a back-up QB. A back-up QB needs to be someone who can come in when your starter gets hurt and not completely and utter implode.
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This is definitely the most solid counter argument I've read. I would never suggest a team reshape their offense for Tebow. As a backup, he should be able to just be plugged into the offense and perform at a reasonable level. Suggesting that his numbers would be worse in those conditions is unsubstantiated though.

I still point to his TD/INT ratio though as proof that there's some level of skill there. It may be unconventional, but when your starter goes down and your team is desperate, sometimes you need to be unconventional. Just my thought anyway.

But I'm also of the opinion that the NFL can be pretty short-sighted about what makes a good player. When you have players like Kevin Kolb and Matt Flynn being given huge contracts, it doesn't make much sense. Again, none of this speaks to Tebow actually being good. But moreso that there are lots of bad players in the league...some of whom are paid quite a bit.
 
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DestroVega said:
Livid over the 49ers loss. What the fuck happened to the passing game this year? It's a joke. I know they were down Crabtree, Manningham, Davis today. But less than 100 yards. Jesus Christ.
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Yeah it's been bad. Even during the winning streak usually the first thing my brother and I would talk about was the passing game. I went to the Niners - Colts game and the receivers couldn't get open at all. Maybe Kaepernick needs to run a little more to open up the passing game. Also Manningham played last Sunday, his first game back.

 
DT778 said:
Yeah it's been bad. Even during the winning streak usually the first thing my brother and I would talk about was the passing game. I went to the Niners - Colts game and the receivers couldn't get open at all. Maybe Kaepernick needs to run a little more to open up the passing game. Also Manningham played last Sunday, his first game back.
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I watched every snap of the 49ers-Panthers game. What happened to the read-option and Kaep running? That used to be so dangerous and is now practically non-existent.

 
DT778 said:
Yeah it's been bad. Even during the winning streak usually the first thing my brother and I would talk about was the passing game. I went to the Niners - Colts game and the receivers couldn't get open at all. Maybe Kaepernick needs to run a little more to open up the passing game. Also Manningham played last Sunday, his first game back.
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Yeah I knew Manninghan played. My sentence was a little convoluted. I think Kaepernick just isn't very good at his reads right now. But to be fair, he's only started 19 games so far still.

My biggest problem is in the 49ers worst three losses since Harbaugh has come in, Last week, Giants NFC title game and the Super Bowl, they forget Frank Gore is on the team.

He got no carries inside the 5 with a chance to win the Super Bowl on the line, and then he has FOUR carries in the second half last week.

I just don't get it.
 
Burning Karma said:
I watched every snap of the 49ers-Panthers game. What happened to the read-option and Kaep running? That used to be so dangerous and is now practically non-existent.
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I don't think the team wants to risk Kaepernick running the ball. Other than the Packers getting their ass kicked by it in the playoffs, the read option wasn't used too much and has been significantly used less this year. It hasn't been working and lately whenever they use it, it is almost guaranteed a handoff.

DestroVega said:
Yeah I knew Manninghan played. My sentence was a little convoluted. I think Kaepernick just isn't very good at his reads right now. But to be fair, he's only started 19 games so far still.

My biggest problem is in the 49ers worst three losses since Harbaugh has come in, Last week, Giants NFC title game and the Super Bowl, they forget Frank Gore is on the team.

He got no carries inside the 5 with a chance to win the Super Bowl on the line, and then he has FOUR carries in the second half last week.

I just don't get it.
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I'm with you man. Don't understand why the Niners themselves take away their best offensive weapon from the game.

 
For what it's worth also, Kaep is averaging the same amount of rushing yards that he did last year.
 
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Almost had another upset sunday.

Bears almost lost

Raiders almost lost loL

Good job protecting Brees there Nfl, you sure don't give people like Jake locker or Vick or dozens of other Qbs that same respect.

 
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renique46 said:
Almost had another upset sunday.

Bears almost lost

Raiders almost lost loL

Good job protecting Brees there Nfl, you sure don't give people like Jake locker or Vick or dozens of other Qbs that same respect.
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The completely uneven enforcement of roughing the passer almost makes me wish they'd just get rid of it completely. Like you mentioned there's some QBs that never get it called for them and then there's others who get it as soon as someone so much as brushes their hand against their shoe. I know it's to protect the QBs but for some it's like the rule doesn't even exist anyway.
 
DNukem170 said:
Yea, but a lot of teams are awful in preseason yet good in the regular season.
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If you look at record. I meant I watched their first team O-line get destroyed in the preseason. You can't have line play that poor and win. Julio Jones was masking a lot of flaws in their offense.
 
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