The Star Trek III (Back from the Dead) Thread

[quote name='CocheseUGA']I think it's one of those things where we'd like to see them go full nerd all the time, but you're not likely to get a movie (or even TV show) made like that. I view it as a plot device. Otherwise, you probably have to cut out the entire sequence of them finding retardo Data. I don't see them being able to do it in another way that wouldn't leave the audience bored.[/quote]

Shuttlecraft fight. I don't think we've ever seen an in-atmosphere extended shuttlecraft dogfight. Or, for that matter, why does Decoy Data have to be on a planet, anyway? He could be in space, on a torpedo, in an anomaly, orbiting Saturn, riding a Doomsday machine, pooped out by Galactus...the possibilities are endless.

What would have been better than a space dune buggy? Just about anything. It's bad, but like dothog says, it's worse because they didn't even try to make it fit or make sense. I'd rather have Patrick Stewart masturbate on camera because even though I don't want to see that either, it would at least have been a little more honest.

But perhaps I'm weird. I enjoyed Insurrection.
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Insurrection was a middling TNG episode. It's worst quality was that it just didn't try all that hard. But it also didn't fail all that hard. I vastly prefer Insurrection to the parade of stupid and insulting that is Nemesis.
 
That's why I loved DS9's space battle scenes. We'd had these huge ships like the Enterprise for so long that just sat there and fired at each other, it was awesome to see the Defiant dog fighting it out.
 
[quote name='blandstalker']I vastly prefer Insurrection to the parade of stupid and insulting that is Nemesis.[/QUOTE]

I don't like either, but if I had to pick one I'd go with Nemesis for Tom Hardy's performance. He was wasted on that film, when I saw it I immediately felt bad that they wasted some young actor's enthusiasm on a shitty movie. Dude has gravitas in that film, whether you like it or not you gotta admit that he's working hard with what they gave him.

Not to say one's better than the other, I just feel like Shinzon had the most potential for an actual ST movie.

I'm also biased against F. Murray Abraham, anytime he's in something he just feels completely out-of-place to me. The only things I've ever liked him in were that prison movie with Magnum and an episode of Bored to Death.
 
[quote name='dothog']I don't like either, but if I had to pick one I'd go with Nemesis for Tom Hardy's performance. He was wasted on that film, when I saw it I immediately felt bad that they wasted some young actor's enthusiasm on a shitty movie. Dude has gravitas in that film, whether you like it or not you gotta admit that he's working hard with what they gave him.

Not to say one's better than the other, I just feel like Shinzon had the most potential for an actual ST movie.

I'm also biased against F. Murray Abraham, anytime he's in something he just feels completely out-of-place to me. The only things I've ever liked him in were that prison movie with Magnum and an episode of Bored to Death.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, Shinzon and Hardy were the best parts of that movie. Dude, literally, and figuratively, went toe to toe with Patrick Stewart and won.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Agreed, Shinzon and Hardy were the best parts of that movie. Dude, literally, and figuratively, went toe to toe with Patrick Stewart and won.[/QUOTE]

I think that's what kills about the TNG movies, you realize that they had a lot of blown opportunities, whether it's bits of ideas, good performances from the non-regular leads, or just the cash they sunk into them. People blame Rick Berman -- I'm there with them -- but it seems to me it probably comes back to the crew and the producer's handling of the crew.

The TNG cast were just entirely too comfortable with their characters, in a way the TOS cast wasn't. Maybe it's because the dynamic among the TOS cast was different, what with Shatner being Shatner. I don't know what.

But the fact that some of the TNG cast could get to a place with their character set in a TREK IN SPACE where they say to the producer or director, "I feel like my character should be driving a dune buggy in this scene" says a lot to me. Any normal person who has watched an episode of TOS or TNG past the opening credits would have had the sense to respond, "Religion and currency are old concepts, we have space travel and goddamn matter transporters. A dune buggy here would be about as sensible as a pogo stick. Stick to the page, y'all." Instead Berman replies, "Dune buggy? Just what the show's been missing! Shit yeah, let's get a dune buggy in here, boys."

That's the long way of bitching that I think the TNG movies feel not just stupid, but kind of willfully negligent, like they know they're not trying that hard but fuck it, we made a bunch of TNG episodes and now we have to make movies like the TOS guys did.

EDIT: And of course while I'm kind of including First Contact in there, I still like First Contact, it's a definite guilty pleasure. James Cromwell and Alfre Woodard aren't guilty pleasures, they're genuinely good. It's the rest of it that's a guilty pleasure (another Borg threat, the ridiculous Queen/Data thing, etc.). It's clearly not aiming for scifi as much as TNG fan service, and IMO it worked, dammit.

Also, off-topic, but I still think Alfre Woodard would've made a better Laura Roslin in BSG than the redhead. It's too bad it didn't go to her.
 
I still think they screwed up not including Q in any of the movies. They could have done damn near anything with him considering his power, but nothing. Instead out of 4 movies only 1 had a threat from the show, the others had new made up races/threats which were never in the show.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']First world problems.[/QUOTE]

Truly. And super job keeping it real in this Star Trek thread. You keep us grounded and remind us where we came from.

Also, big ups to the man upstairs. Ya heard, Q-dog?
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Agreed, Shinzon and Hardy were the best parts of that movie. Dude, literally, and figuratively, went toe to toe with Patrick Stewart and won.[/QUOTE]

I think that's what I meant with my earlier comments about Nemesis. It definitely had problems but I enjoyed his character and interactions with Picard.
 
Didn't even realize that the movies were being talked about. I just spent the last week watching all of them, after having watched every episode.

I hope that anyone who had a problem with the dune buggy scene also hated the hell out of all the early America time travel/holodeck episodes. Those are far more out of place and nonsensical (especially in their frequency) than an innocuous scene. Worse still were the Sherlock Holmes episodes.

Why would a starship have a dune buggy? Because it would suck balls to cross an unknown planet's desert looking for parts of android bait. Data also alludes to them using that method because of humans' preference for fast vehicles. Had Stewart's demand actually changed the plot or outcome of the film, then I could see a reason to not like it.

My thoughts on the movies are:

* Generations was fun and I really liked that it explained Guinan's backstory. I imagine they had to do it to justify Whoopi Goldberg being in the movie though. My favorite part was seeing the contrast between the original Star Trek being a groovy trip (Shatner) and TNG being more about understanding the world (Picard).

* First Contact was some hot garbage. If there's one Trek movie to hate for being too mainstream and escaping its roots, it's that one. I can't decide what I hate more. The painfully long opening credits, Vulcans listening to rock music, or anything involving the Borg not making a lick of sense.

* Insurrection was fun for me if only because it reminded me of the conspiracy from earlier episodes. Not much good to say but not much bad either.

* Nemesis was a good cap. I really liked that they brought out some new villains that had some purpose and vague mentions throughout the series. Kinda bothersome that they never explained how the viceroy and Shinzon were able to mind rape Troi but hey, it's not like they even acknowledged that Riker almost died either. The part with Shinzon impaling himself more was a bit much since I don't see how a guy with failing health would have survived the initial stab wound. Data kicking him over when he finally died was humorous because again, once the villains died it was as if they hadn't existed. It was easy to see that they had run out of steam by that point so I'm glad it ended the way it did.
 
[quote name='davo1224']
I hope that anyone who had a problem with the dune buggy scene also hated the hell out of all the early America time travel/holodeck episodes. Those are far more out of place and nonsensical (especially in their frequency) than an innocuous scene. Worse still were the Sherlock Holmes episodes.
[/QUOTE]
images
 
Whatever Data's fate, he's been immortalized on my foot. I wasn't going for a super-realistic portrait, I wanted a more traditional-style tattoo. And before anyone asks, I have a lot of work done already, so I'm not concerned with how silly this is:

tumblr_lwvvyiQUt91r8l7pko1_400.jpg


For the record, that's smeared ink on my toes, I didn't get this done with filthy feet! The curve of my foot makes it a little hard to read the first word, it says "Keep It Positronic" which is a play on words of 'Keep it posi', something you hear a lot among positive hardcore/punk music which I grew up on.
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']Dude...that doesn't even look like data :([/QUOTE]
It looks more like Data and Wesley Crusher got combined during a horrible transporter accident if you ask me.

Oh and am I the only one to completely forget that there's been FOUR TNG movies already? Then again, I think I kinda intentionally forgot about the last twothree cuz I thought they sucked.:booty:
 
[quote name='davo1224']Didn't even realize that the movies were being talked about. I just spent the last week watching all of them, after having watched every episode.

I hope that anyone who had a problem with the dune buggy scene also hated the hell out of all the early America time travel/holodeck episodes. Those are far more out of place and nonsensical (especially in their frequency) than an innocuous scene. Worse still were the Sherlock Holmes episodes.

[/QUOTE]
Get out.
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']Dude...that doesn't even look like data :([/QUOTE]

I agree that he looks a bit younger or narrower in the face (which is extra ironic since Data doesn't age!). Thing is, the stencil looked perfect so I think some of the shading made a difference in a detrimental way.

That's why it's on my foot, though. Like I said, I wasn't going for photo-realism.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']It looks more like Data and Wesley Crusher got combined during a horrible transporter accident if you ask me.
[/QUOTE]

:lol:
 
[quote name='johnnypark']I agree that he looks a bit younger or narrower in the face (which is extra ironic since Data doesn't age!). Thing is, the stencil looked perfect so I think some of the shading made a difference in a detrimental way.

That's why it's on my foot, though. Like I said, I wasn't going for photo-realism.[/QUOTE]


What do you mean Data DOESN'T Age??!?! There was an episode that said he was programmed to age.



[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']It looks more like Data and Wesley Crusher got combined during a horrible transporter accident if you ask me.[/QUOTE]

Yeah.... my thoughts exactly....looks like someone's gonna be paying lots of $$$ to get that sucker removed. Come on, you could have done a Klingon symbol or even Worf.
 
Also, I just started watching Season 3 the other night (I'm slowly making my way through everything) and other than Wesley Crusher's AWESOME haircut everything about Season 3 has been miles better than Season 1 and 2. Did something happen in between season like switching showrunners or head writers or something? It is so noticeable.
 
[quote name='Javery']Also, I just started watching Season 3 the other night (I'm slowly making my way through everything) and other than Wesley Crusher's AWESOME haircut everything about Season 3 has been miles better than Season 1 and 2. Did something happen in between season like switching showrunners or head writers or something? It is so noticeable.[/QUOTE]Seasons 3, 4 and 5 are the best ones, IMO. I think there was a writing change at that point, though who it was, I can't say.

Nice link to the BD article. I'm looking forward to seeing how good they can make it look, and I think they're taking the long way to do it but it shows that they want it to look good.

TOS on BD is very nice looking, though it was shot on film so it was easy to have BD make it look good. TNG, DS9 and Voyager weren't, so they have to go back and do the process they're doing on TNG to make it look better than some cheap upscale.
 
Yeah - I've seen every episode countless times but I don't recall ever watching them in order. It's interesting to see the progression.

The BD will be nice if everything comes out like that but I can't see myself spending a ton of money on it. I'd probably bite at $30 per season or $200 for the series...
 
[quote name='Javery']Yeah - I've seen every episode countless times but I don't recall ever watching them in order. It's interesting to see the progression.

The BD will be nice if everything comes out like that but I can't see myself spending a ton of money on it. I'd probably bite at $30 per season or $200 for the series...[/QUOTE]


The problem is that Paramount is going to have to do some aggressive promotions for the TNG BR releases. Some people won't want to shell out another 100+ bucks for a cleaner image and same features ported over from the original 2002 releases. No way in hell Paramount is going to change $30 at launch for each season...if we are lucky *maybe* $75....if they are still greedy bastards, you may be looking at over 130 bucks for each season. This is not a cheap process for them...and they will sure pass down the cost to us "fans". It's truly sad that this show was not film with HD in mind (like babylon 5).

Like I said before, it's best for Paramount to do a very limited promo with Netflix to release certain "best of" episodes on Netflix on HD so they can see where the market is for TNG HD. Sales will have to be really good for the sampler disc in order to give Paramount the confidence it needs to put out the rest of the seasons.
 
[quote name='Javery']Blu-ray looking nice: http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/01/05/star-trek-tng-hd-exclusive-video/[/QUOTE]
Holy shit that is looking kickass. Any doubts about the merit of the project (pricepoints aside) should be squashed defiantly with that video.

Also as far as for your question about season 3's drastic improvement, I suspect from Berman and company figured out how Star Trek TNG should work. In addition to this, they had two very big "gets" for Season 3-- Michael Piller and Ronald Moore started writing TNG scripts in season 3. Both of them, in my opinion, "got" Star Trek and they certainly had a positive impact. Also, I heard something along the lines that Gene Roddenberry since season one was losing more and more influence on the show, but I'm not too certain on that particular statement.
 
All I know is the show was obviously written by old white dudes and it never really let you forget it. Proof of this in the episodes ranged from horribly obvious (tribal African planet) to being buried in storylines (Beverly learning about the Trill and it ending with them teasing a lesbian encounter).

What makes TNG my favorite is that you can literally jump into any episode and have some comprehension of what's going on. This is good for watching it late at night if it's on but when I started watching them in order you realize how loosely the episodes are connected. It becomes readily apparent in the last season just how irrelevant each episode is.

Deep Space Nine is easily the best episodic Star Trek show but it's a shame they chose the Cardassians as the go-to race.
 
While seasons 1 and 2 may be the worst and by today's standard would have been cancelled, it did get us to the better season 3 and on. If you watch the show for what it is instead of what you wish it could have been, you'll find enjoyment. I have been rewatching TNG recently and I am into season 2. I have been pleasantly surprised by how much I am enjoying the show. Going back and seeing things that they took as plot elements for future episodes has been enjoyable to me. I've gotten over the characters feel stiff and boy genius saves the ship again and have been seeing the message that Roddenberry was trying to convey in the episode.

I know someone troll pissed on the Sherlock Holmes episode, but that is one of the better season 2 episode that I really enjoyed.
 
They were feeling their way and getting their feet under them in the first two seasons. By season 3 and especially season 4 they had characters sorted out, backstories in place, the actors were much more comfortable in their roles, and the writers were really coming up with better stories. I remember the summer after season 3 it seemed like EVERYONE was talking about the great cliffhanger and how it would resolve. Good times...good times....
 
[quote name='Javery']Also, I just started watching Season 3 the other night (I'm slowly making my way through everything) and other than Wesley Crusher's AWESOME haircut everything about Season 3 has been miles better than Season 1 and 2. Did something happen in between season like switching showrunners or head writers or something? It is so noticeable.[/QUOTE]
This seems to be the case for most Trek shows, at least TNG, DS9, and VOY anyway. They start to pick up around the 3 season.
 
[quote name='Clak']This seems to be the case for most Trek shows, at least TNG, DS9, and VOY anyway. They start to pick up around the 3 season.[/QUOTE]

True - except for Voyager it went from "Awful" to "We know this is awful so lets throw everything out the window and make it so bad it might be not-awful anymore."
 
I'll be passing on the Blu-ray release of TNG. I already have the entire series on DVD (it was a Christmas present from last year) and it works fine and looks fine. No need to drop over $100 on another set.
 
[quote name='Tony Stark']HMMM...
lets post the same link twice couple minutes apart[/QUOTE]

it was a browser glitch smart guy!
 
[quote name='davo1224']I don't remember the picture quality on the original being that terrible.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't. The original broadcasts weren't a blurred-out mess like the comparison press shots. Those press shots remind me of those VHS bootlegs from comic conventions. Even the original VHS transfers were shit.

[quote name='Clak']Wow, that last screen cap of Data looks amazing.[/QUOTE]
You ain't joking.
 
[quote name='davo1224']I don't remember the picture quality on the original being that terrible.[/QUOTE]

It was "OK" for it's time...the DVD made it worse.... the only thing they improved was the audio for the DVD release. Season 1 and 2 where merky as hell.
 
While picture quality has obviously gotten better with high definition, I definitely feel like there's some shenanigans going on. I watched XviD captures stretched to 16:9 and I didn't have a hard time telling the difference between Tasha and a wall. I can't imagine the actual TV presentations or the DVDs were worse. It seems like a big push to get people to shell out the money.
 
http://www.blu-raydefinition.com/re...generation-the-next-level-blu-ray-review.html

with screenshots...

hmm...
Star_Trek_TNG_Next_Level_09.jpg



Star_Trek_TNG_Next_Level_21.jpg


I don't recall the KBOP facing that angle in that episode. Also notice there is this weird halo around the enterprise? I think there may be a combination of CG shots and original ship shots and the halo might be some weird left over composting issues. EDIT: Ok, I just saw the first few seconds of SOTF, and I WAS RIGHT! the KBOP was at facing differently. LET THE NERD RAGE BEGIN!!! LOL
 
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