Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

[aptanor]

Yes but we both know Ashane is absolutely right about everything, so why were you disagreeing with him?

 

[Ashane]

Yes but we both know Ashane is absolutely right about everything, so why were you disagreeing with him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzb7rHyI8NI

 

[htz]

Yes but we both know Ashane is absolutely right about everything, so why were you disagreeing with him?

I just like debating with him like timbo.

Edit:

Which, again, is not dedicated servers. It's using P2P hosting, with your MP data saved on the cloud. I guess if you want to believe its dedicated go ahead, but I'll take the word of the developer of the game. I cant even believe your attempting to argue it is dedicated.. I really cant. Like, I'm baffled, since I know your far smarter then that.

I'm not arguing about if it is dedicated or not. I'm arguing with you on if Last of Us is really P2P or running in the cloud with VMs like AWS.

Which was 100% correct You even quoted a article from it, albeit one that had numerous errors. I quoted a correct one PSN Servers are not using AWS anymore, and we know that because they announced it.

When I wrote my original reply to your statement about PSN not using AWS. It was more about proving that Sony has utilized cloud technology before and that they are not really that far behind when PSN is running on the cloud already.

 

[brandtron8000]

Gotcha, so, to get around the slow download speeds of PS+, you must have the foresight to actually log into the game you wish to play tomorrow and make sure the updates get downloaded. Hmm ok

As to Fez, Phil Fish can suck it personally. Hes a massive douche-bag who thinks his shit dosent stink. If he had released Fez on the XBL Indie section, it could have gotten updates. However, he was not happy with that and wanted it on XBL Arcade... that was clearly his choice.

Right, and those super fast updates happen so quickly on XBL you probably just go back and delete patches and re-install them over and over to marvel at the wonder.

I personally have never had any speed issues downloading updates on PSN. I even recently changed my PS+ automatic update time to 4pm so I can buy and download stuff on the PSN web store during the day, and I've come home to mutliple patches and full game downloads and installs done by the time I get home around 6pm. So I'll take the DRM defense route and say: It doesn't affect me.

But still, fast(er) updates? That's the edge XBL has?

It's ok to have buyer's remorse after realizing all you have to show for years of paying for Live is Fable 3, and Defense Grid: The Awakening. And you can still enjoy those games for years to come if you plug in your Xbox 360 into your Xbone, or wait, do you have to plug it into your Cable DVR's hdmi input first?

It's getting far off field, and is not even about X1. If you two would like to continue, we can create a thread over on the PS3 section as its more appropriate there? Let me know

Plenty appropriate, this all started with you and WV's assertion that XBLG had the online "edge" next-gen.

 

[Ashane]

Edit:

I'm not arguing about if it is dedicated or not. I'm arguing with you on if Last of Us is really P2P or running in the cloud with VMs like AWS.

When I wrote my original reply to your statement about PSN not using AWS. It was more about proving that Sony has utilized cloud technology before and that they are not really that far behind when PSN is running on the cloud already.

What kind of networking does this game use?
The Last of Us uses Peer to Peer networking, meaning that one player serves as the host.

From The Last of Us FAQ on their forum. I mean, I'm not sure what else I have to link here, but so far you've linked absolutely nothing confirming that it's not P2P. The burden is now on you to prove your point I'd say, woudnt you?

As to your last paragraph, you've already said even you prefer the XBL's download speeds/store front to the PSN's. So, my question is, is it wrong to give Sony a pass for awhile and let them catch up to Live? I don't think so, and clearly said so.

Right, and those super fast updates happen so quickly on XBL you probably just go back and delete patches and re-install them over and over to marvel at the wonder.

I personally have never had any speed issues downloading updates on PSN. I even recently changed my PS+ automatic update time to 4pm so I can buy and download stuff on the PSN web store during the day, and I've come home to mutliple patches and full game downloads and installs done by the time I get home around 6pm. So I'll take the DRM defense route and say: It doesn't affect me.

But still, fast(er) updates? That's the edge XBL has?

It's ok to have buyer's remorse after realizing all you have to show for years of paying for Live is Fable 3, and Defense Grid: The Awakening. And you can still enjoy those games for years to come if you plug in your Xbox 360 into your Xbone, or wait, do you have to plug it into your Cable DVR's hdmi input first?

Great for you personally. It's funny how you argue for all the poor kids in the world who do not have a internet connection before, yet now it's ok because it does not effect you personally. You sir, are a hypocrite of the highest order.

As to buyer's remorse, I have none. In return for paying for Live, I got excellent service, did not get my credit card stolen (hoorah!), and got extremely minimal downtime, fast patches, etc.

Going out to dinner, so feel free to post up a massive sony fanboy rant about how great your service is on a Xbox One thread. I'll just be dying with speculation about the contents. /Really.

 

[WV Matsui]

Great for you personally. It's funny how you argue for all the poor kids in the world who do not have a internet connection before, yet now it's ok because it does not effect you personally. You sir, are a hypocrite of the highest order.

As to buyer's remorse, I have none. In return for paying for Live, I got excellent service, did not get my credit card stolen (hoorah!), and got extremely minimal downtime, fast patches, etc.

Going out to dinner, so feel free to post up a massive sony fanboy rant about how great your service is on a Xbox One thread. I'll just be dying with speculation about the contents. /Really.





Enjoy your dinner fine sir!

 

[brandtron8000]

Great for you personally. It's funny how you argue for all the poor kids in the world who do not have a internet connection before, yet now it's ok because it does not effect you personally. You sir, are a hypocrite of the highest order.

As to buyer's remorse, I have none. In return for paying for Live, I got excellent service, did not get my credit card stolen (hoorah!), and got extremely minimal downtime, fast patches, etc.

Going out to dinner, so feel free to post up a massive sony fanboy rant about how great your service is on a Xbox One thread. I'll just be dying with speculation about the contents. /Really.

What's funny is I've never contradicted my position.

MS was trying to take away consumer rights with DRM, some, like you, claimed it "didn't affect them" and gave no consideration to those it did affect. And it's "affect" by the way.

I have an internet connection that benefits me and defies your position that PSN updates are slow, which is still a super weak argument as to why XBL has the "edge," but it doesn't mean it doesn't affect others or that I don't care that it does. It just means people without a connection can continue to play their game un-patched, or download it whenever they choose at whatever speed their connections allow. Not Hypocritical at all.

http://www.internetnews.com/infra/article.php/3719596/Xbox+Live+Service+Suffers+11Day+Outage.htm

Any amount of downtime like that is unacceptable for a paid service.

So where's the XBL edge guys?

 

[io]

Is this even worth taking about any more?

They are not free they pay for the "free" games. Most of the 360 users signed on about 6 years ago when there weren't "free" games just a dominant online experience. Now PS+ users pay for these games yearly for $50. And we still get the supreme service at around $35 and some "free" games. I'll take Live over PS+ any day. And I have both services

Pretty unfair to compare sale/CAG deal prices on XBL to "full retail" for PS+. Live is $60, PS+ is $50. Both can be gotten for cheaper. Hell, I'm currently on a $40 Live sub and a $17 PS+ sub. So clearly PS+ is the WAY better deal using your pick-and-choose logic.

When it comes to gaming yes I agree they both will be comparable.

When it comes to everything else I would say they live still has the edge. All of the entertainment, apps, services, UI etc. I believe really puts XBL over the edge.

But if you don't care about those features then yes I would say they are comparable.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about with Live. What are all these apps and services? I know occasionally I'll click on something in and amongst all the ads on the dashboard and it will go to a dialog saying it is installing some app - I always cancel that right quick and go back to whatever game I intended to play . There was one time right after they introduced the live sports feature that I tried watching something because I though that might be cool - maybe I could watch in HD. It told me my ISP (which was the only cable service available in my area) was incompatible with the service. Nice, and oh so very useful.

 

[ShockandAww]

Yeah, people need to stop with the "specs" bullshit, you're not going to notice a difference at all. In fact, it's already proven the Xbox One has many more features, isn't that more important?

What the...I didn't even realize two simple sentences could be packed full of so much nonsense. Please don't ever quote me again. I get a notification and think it might be worth my time and then I waste it reading bullshit like this. Enjoy your Xbox One.

 

[thenutman69321]

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about with Live. What are all these apps and services? I know occasionally I'll click on something in and amongst all the ads on the dashboard and it will go to a dialog saying it is installing some app - I always cancel that right quick and go back to whatever game I intended to play . There was one time right after they introduced the live sports feature that I tried watching something because I though that might be cool - maybe I could watch in HD. It told me my ISP (which was the only cable service available in my area) was incompatible with the service. Nice, and oh so very useful.

To be fair Live does have a decent amount of random apps but the popular ones are on PS as well, ones like Netflix and Amazon Instant Video, and Hulu (the only ones most people will ever use) seem to be built into most new TVs making them being on consoles unnecessary before long imo.

 

[htz]

What kind of networking does this game use?

The Last of Us uses Peer to Peer networking, meaning that one player serves as the host.

From The Last of Us FAQ on their forum. I mean, I'm not sure what else I have to link here, but so far you've linked absolutely nothing confirming that it's not P2P. The burden is now on you to prove your point I'd say, woudnt you?

As to your last paragraph, you've already said even you prefer the XBL's download speeds/store front to the PSN's. So, my question is, is it wrong to give Sony a pass for awhile and let them catch up to Live? I don't think so, and clearly said so.

Like I said before I'm not arguing with you on if Last of Us is utilizing dedicated servers or not. You turned this into a P2P or not argument. I will admit that you were right about Last of Us being P2P though.

A more telling example would be The Last of Us. Which does not use AWS. It uses P2P. Ask yourself why if Naughty Dog has been using AWS for all of their releases, why would the Last of Us be different? Because they no longer have a relationship with AWS.

I'm actually trying to get back to this reply you made earlier. How can you say that Last of Us does not use AWS? Just cause it is P2P doesn't mean it won't utilize AWS. UC2&3 are both P2P but they utilize AWS as evident here. I can't prove to you that Last of Us is specifically using AWS but neither can you state that just cause the game is P2P that it won't be using AWS.

This also got me thinking on what Microsoft could mean by dedicated servers for all games using Azure for cloud gaming. Microsoft could do the same thing as Naughty Dog and utilize the cloud for matchmaking, stats, loadouts, patches, profile storage, physics, AI, and technically still can say the game is running on dedicated servers but still use P2P for during gameplay.

 

[Blaster man]

Pretty unfair to compare sale/CAG deal prices on XBL to "full retail" for PS+. Live is $60, PS+ is $50. Both can be gotten for cheaper. Hell, I'm currently on a $40 Live sub and a $17 PS+ sub. So clearly PS+ is the WAY better deal using your pick-and-choose logic.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about with Live. What are all these apps and services? I know occasionally I'll click on something in and amongst all the ads on the dashboard and it will go to a dialog saying it is installing some app - I always cancel that right quick and go back to whatever game I intended to play . There was one time right after they introduced the live sports feature that I tried watching something because I though that might be cool - maybe I could watch in HD. It told me my ISP (which was the only cable service available in my area) was incompatible with the service. Nice, and oh so very useful.

It's not even worth talking sense into him. He's the most biased person I've ever seen on CAG.

 

[Ashane]

Like I said before I'm not arguing with you on if Last of Us is utilizing dedicated servers or not. You turned this into a P2P or not argument. I will admit that you were right about Last of Us being P2P though.

I'm actually trying to get back to this reply you made earlier. How can you say that Last of Us does not use AWS? Just cause it is P2P doesn't mean it won't utilize AWS. UC2&3 are both P2P but they utilize AWS as evident here. I can't prove to you that Last of Us is specifically using AWS but neither can you state that just cause the game is P2P that it won't be using AWS.

This also got me thinking on what Microsoft could mean by dedicated servers for all games using Azure for cloud gaming. Microsoft could do the same thing as Naughty Dog and utilize the cloud for matchmaking, stats, loadouts, patches, profile storage, physics, AI, and technically still can say the game is running on dedicated servers but still use P2P for during gameplay.

Thanks ;P I really hate having to dig on the internet for a hour or two to fact check things I write, then I see some people just spout off random non sense like its fact. There's a reason we are all sitting here on the internet, and if you dig well enough, you'll find the answers you seek.

As to AWS, I'm primarily basing it on that very article. It has been updated numerous times, and yet has not been updated for TLoU. Odd, don't you think? Numerous other pages have been edited to include more detail, or updated progress.. yet not that one.

While I admit it's purely speculation, Naughty Dog themselves have not said it is using it, or it isnt.. so all we have is speculation. The most dangerous thing to have in my opinion

As to Microsoft, I'm sure if they wanted to be really sneaky they could hide most of that information from the general public.. perhaps if the hosts disconnects implement some sort of smoke and mirror's screen. I'd like to think that those of us familiar with Azure servers and P2P hosting could figure it out pretty quickly though.

 

[Ashane]

Looks like MLG / Microsoft partnership will continue for the Xbox One, and will even be expanding...

http://www.halocouncil.com/2013/07/02/microsoft-stores-to-hold-xbox-one-tournaments-with-mlg/

From the video, Mr. Sepso confirmed that not only will Microsoft be opening more stores across the country, but also, that MLG and Microsoft will be working together to bring weekly leagues and tournaments to the various Microsoft stores across the country upon the release of the Xbox One this holiday season.

.............

Opening up MLG to more gamers via Microsoft Stores sounds like a win/win for both companies, and gamers in general. 

 

[MetalSlugger]

Microsoft could shit in a bucket and Ashane would tout it as the world's best turtle sundae.  C'MON GUYS, GRAB YOUR SPOONS WHAT ARE YOU BIASED

 

[io]

To be fair Live does have a decent amount of random apps but the popular ones are on PS as well, ones like Netflix and Amazon Instant Video, and Hulu (the only ones most people will ever use) seem to be built into most new TVs making them being on consoles unnecessary before long imo.

Well, that is a given. I figured he must be talking about other stuff. If he meant Netflix and Hulu (which is all I ever seem to see people on my friends list doing with their Xbox 360's) then, yeah, there's no point discussing it any more since those are everywhere.

 

[WV Matsui]

Netflix
Hulu
HBO Go
ESPN (Which is awesome)
Amazon Video
Live Events! - the Presidential Debates with the interactive polling - E3 - Mars Rover etc
Movies
Music
Download speeds with no installs that take hours
GameTrailers
Xfinity
The IGN app
NFL Partnership with Fantasy integration
Twitch
TV integration with HDMI in
Multiplayer
Xbox's UI

Annnnd more...

 

[WV Matsui]

An actual usable browser
Achievements
Avatars

 

[MetalSlugger]

I'd agree with all of that with some exceptions:

Netflix, while usable, has the worst interface on 360.  A total pain in the ass to navigate and (especially) cut to specific timestamps in a title.  Also has forced autoplay, which is annoying for TV shows.

The internet browser is better than the PS3 for sure but pales in comparison to the Wii U's, and was only introduced within the past year wheras the Wii/U and PS3 have had them since launch.

Amazon Video is a crock of shit.  Sure, you can watch your Amazon videos, but good luck trying to find them with search.  For whatever reason almost all of the search results are hidden on the 360 app, forcing me to buy it on my PC and then watch it.  The streaming is iffy too, but it's iffy on all of my devices so that's a wash.

ESPN is just ESPN3 with some window dressing and requires a compatible cable subscription to work.  HBO Go also requires a cable subscription.

 

[io]

Yeah, that "awesome" ESPN app is the one that wouldn't work with my cable provider/ISP.   And while I don't live in the middle of a major metropolitan area, I am just outside one so my situation is probably not unusual.

Thank you for reminding me of this.  It points to the problem Microsoft had in making these "premium" features that are only available to a subset of their customers into key features of the Xbox One.  The most drastic examples were the DRM and 24-hour check-in, which obviously are now gone.  But you could see the trend even with the 360 with the ESPN app and probably others.  All this stuff is nice, but it fragments and confuses the customer base.  A video game console should be an all-inclusive, works anywhere device.  Once MS let the exclusive and YMMV aspects of the extra (and to me meaningless) features of the 360 creep into the core Xbox One experience that is where they blew it.  While they've gotten rid of the worst of it, they still have the NFL and TV stuff they touted so much which probably won't work in most other countries, or, if my experience is any indication, even with all ISP/cable providers within the U.S.  That only serves to frustrate some users while making others who have those features available put down those who don't.

 

[thenutman69321]

Netflix
Hulu
HBO Go
ESPN (Which is awesome)
Amazon Video
Live Events! - the Presidential Debates with the interactive polling - E3 - Mars Rover etc
Movies
Music
Download speeds with no installs that take hours
GameTrailers
Xfinity
The IGN app
NFL Partnership with Fantasy integration
Twitch
TV integration with HDMI in
Multiplayer
Xbox's UI

Annnnd more...

There's no denying that the Xbox UI is good and is the preference for most people. However I don't see most of those other things as reasons for an Xbox. Some are so popular you can get them on every device under the sun (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, HBOGo) some require separate subscriptions (HBOGo, ESPN, Xfinity not sure on that one correct me if wrong, and of course the previously mentioned ones) also those are all available on so many other devices, not as many as Netflix but still plenty. A browser is a browser, they all suck on consoles. Aren't movies and music both available on PS as well? Download speeds have always felt about the same for me on my PS3 and X360. Installs never take hours on PS (at least none I've run into) but there is no denying mandatory installs are super annoying. I don't know enough about anything else to mention is specifically but I guess it all boils down to how people view their console differently. I want to play games, that's it. Everything else it can do that I would do I already have devices to do it more or equally conveniently. You obviously want to do much more with it.

You don't have to sell me on achievements in fact achievements are pretty much the only reason I will be getting an X1 over PS4, I've put so much time into my gamerscore I don't want to give it up, other than achievements I view both consoles about equal for what I want out of them but PS has trophies. They've never felt the same to me personally but they are basically the same thing.

 

[WV Matsui]

Last of us took me 6 hours to download and install.

I love all of those features and more and most of my friends have and are getting the X1.

io I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else. I know what I value and a lot of that is what I listed and that's why I am sticking with MS. Not to mention Master Chief, Marcus Phoenix and a whole of others folks that I really have a vested interest in continuing to follow their story lines.

I will get a PS4 eventually just like I got a PS3 in 2011. But I am sticking with what I have enjoyed the most this generation to start the next and that is the Xbox. I want both consoles to do well. It only helps all of us as a whole in the long run if there is strong competition.

 

[WV Matsui]

Damn iPad

 

[Thomas96]

There's no denying that the Xbox UI is good and is the preference for most people. However I don't see most of those other things as reasons for an Xbox. Some are so popular you can get them on every device under the sun (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, HBOGo) some require separate subscriptions (HBOGo, ESPN, Xfinity not sure on that one correct me if wrong, and of course the previously mentioned ones) also those are all available on so many other devices, not as many as Netflix but still plenty. A browser is a browser, they all suck on consoles. Aren't movies and music both available on PS as well? Download speeds have always felt about the same for me on my PS3 and X360. Installs never take hours on PS (at least none I've run into) but there is no denying mandatory installs are super annoying. I don't know enough about anything else to mention is specifically but I guess it all boils down to how people view their console differently. I want to play games, that's it. Everything else it can do that I would do I already have devices to do it more or equally conveniently. You obviously want to do much more with it.

You don't have to sell me on achievements in fact achievements are pretty much the only reason I will be getting an X1 over PS4, I've put so much time into my gamerscore I don't want to give it up, other than achievements I view both consoles about equal for what I want out of them but PS has trophies. They've never felt the same to me personally but they are basically the same thing.

People like the trophies and gamerscore, but honestly I wouldn't care if they just reset them all. (At least for what displays on you're profile card). If people want to see the user's complete set of trophies / gamerscore then it'd be nice if they had a section for that on a persons profile page (or something equivalent). At this point, the gamerscore and number of trophies don't really mean anything if the numbers become to large due to scores inflated from last gen and next gen accomplishments being added together.

 

[thenutman69321]

Last of us took me 6 hours to download and install.

There's no denying that it a hell of a long time but I would counter with Prey took me 3 hours on X360 today to download, a game I would assume is considerably smaller. Although it did seem like it shouldn't have taken that long maybe just overloaded servers today because of the pretty awesome sales.

I hear you on the Marcus Phoenix as well, one of my favorite series and the strong competition. I argue alot around here with those I consider to be extremely pro MS but when it comes down to it now that the used game DRM is gone I am getting an X1 as well and it may be the only console I get next gen as the main reason I got a PS3 was for the Bluray player. I just feel you guys sometimes ignore negatives or try to overly inflate positives.

People like the trophies and gamerscore, but honestly I wouldn't care if they just reset them all.

BLASPHEMY.

 

[MetalSlugger]

Fenix.

 

[thenutman69321]

Fenix.

Lol I knew when I was typing it the name seemed wrong but I couldn't remember how it was spelled so I just copied how he spelled it. I was actually thinking Phenix for some reason.

 

[Ashane]

I argue alot around here with those I consider to be extremely pro MS but when it comes down to it now that the used game DRM is gone I am getting an X1 as well and it may be the only console I get next gen as the main reason I got a PS3 was for the Bluray player. I just feel you guys sometimes ignore negatives or try to overly inflate positives.

It's just important to remember that everyone has different thoughts on what is, or is not important to them. Some may want the TV feature, but absolutely hate fantasy football, or hate the kinect but really want fantasy football, whatever.

I.E. What's a negative to one, is a positive to another, and indifferent to someone else.

You'll find most of us arent here to bash the other console, and I think we hope they enjoy their PS4's. However, you can clearly tell the "other side" does not feel that way. Not in the slightest. So, if some get a little defensive, it's natural with what we've been called here and elsewhere.

This is the internet after all, where anyone can be a jackass with absolutely no repercussions. Sometimes I miss how it was with Genie. At least then I knew if you wanted to be a jackass, it was costing you $4.99-9.99 a hour.

 

[WV Matsui]

Lol I knew when I was typing it the name seemed wrong but I couldn't remember how it was spelled so I just copied how he spelled it. I was actually thinking Phenix for some reason.



Ditto. Sorry!

 

[WV Matsui]

It's just important to remember that everyone has different thoughts on what is, or is not important to them. Some may want the TV feature, but absolutely hate fantasy football, or hate the kinect but really want fantasy football, whatever.

I.E. What's a negative to one, is a positive to another, and indifferent to someone else.

You'll find most of us arent here to bash the other console, and I think we hope they enjoy their PS4's. However, you can clearly tell the "other side" does not feel that way. Not in the slightest. So, if some get a little defensive, it's natural with what we've been called here and elsewhere.

This is the internet after all, where anyone can be a jackass with absolutely no repercussions. Sometimes I miss how it was with Genie. At least then I knew if you wanted to be a jackass, it was costing you $4.99-9.99 a hour.



I couldn't agree with you more. I hope the PS4 does well. I have said this multiple times but I think both consoles need to succeed and do well. Hell I wish the WiiU was doing a hell of a lot better. Everyone doing well is just better for us.

I'm not trying to convince anyone. Im just trying to be excited for the console that I have decided to purchase at launch.

I don't want to bash the PS4 because I do plan on getting one eventually but I will come to the X1's defense when folks openly bash the features I value.

I really don't understand the point of coming in here and starting arguments for the sake of having one. Does it really bother folks that much that they feel the need to fight for Sony all over the Internet?

I really wish thread could stop being the battleground.

 

[Erad30]

So we aren't free to say why we won't be buying the system? We already have a Xbox One positivity thread. This is for general discussion about things people like and don't like and it's fair to compare the competition.

 

[WV Matsui]

So we aren't free to say why we won't be buying the system? We already have a Xbox One positivity thread. This is for general discussion about things people like and don't like and it's fair to compare the competition.



Dude everyone knows why you aren't buying it. You continue to tell us. I don't get the point. Congrats on your PS4 I hope you enjoy it I really do.

 

[WV Matsui]

And no folks from your camp aren't here to discuss things they like and don't...just to bash. What is the point? Do you get a trophy from Sony for standing up for them on the Internet? I just don't get it. I am not all up in the PS4 thread all the time stating why I'm not getting one. I have posted in there but mostly articles and pictures.

 

[dmaul1114]

There was a lot of deserved bashing over the DRM, online checks etc. Now that those are gone I don't think there's much bashing going on at all. Just people discussing what they like and don't like.

I like the controller, some of the exclusives, and the Live experience from a features standpoint. I hate Kinect, the price tag, the Xbox user base (live is loaded with kids, dude bros and douchebags in general, but maybe psn will be just as bad next gen with everyone having a mic...), and all things being equal I prefer not buying American made goods.

So I'm sticking with ps4 at launch. May get an x1 later on, but likely not as I just don't game enough to justify multiple consoles.

 

[WV Matsui]

I really like the way the new reputation system sounds...

http://m.oxm.co.uk/57505/features/the-new-dark-side-of-xbox-live-microsoft-explains-xbox-ones-all-new-reputation-system/?page=1

 

[WV Matsui]

A total overhaul of Xbox Live is one of Microsoft's big plays for next gen, and there are fascinating consequences as regards the Reputation system. This is being upgraded from Xbox 360's simple five-star rating to a learning system which will track player misbehaviour and effectively create tacit communities of ne'er do wells, safeguarding the rest of us from their evil designs. Speaking to OXM at an exclusive Xbox One reveal event in May, Microsoft's senior product manager Mike Lavin explored the ramifications.

The key aim is that players won't have to splinter off into Parties to ensure they aren't matched with objectionable types in multiplayer. "There's a lot of folks, a lot of our core consumers who just want to basically kick back and stay in touch with some of their old college buddies," Lavin began. "That's cool, and Party Chat today and our Party system is leaps and bounds ahead of competitors, from the standpoint of just being able to isolate yourself and cross-game chat.

"But the problem we see is that this fragments voice communication within games. It's very difficult, because if you're isolated in Party Chat, you're leaving everybody else behind." Microsoft wants everybody to communicate, ideally, and "in order to do that, you need a community of folks that aren't screaming vulgarities every ten seconds, or the griefers or the harassers, those types of folks.

"What we're looking at doing is creating a very robust system around reputation and match-making," he continued. "If people are in your friends list, we're not touching that, we're just making it easier for you to come together. It's really the anonymous side of things where we're making these investments. Ultimately if there's a few per cent of our population that are causing the rest of the population to have a miserable time, we should be able to identify those folks."

Microsoft will do more to encourage good behaviour - and shut down the griefers. "There are industry best practices we've looked at, about giving kudos and props to people who behave well. We've learned from everything we've seen, and we're trying to take it to the next level. So there'll be very good things that happen to people that just play their games and are good participants. And you'll start to see some effects if you continue to play bad or, or harass other people en masse. You'll probably end up starting to play more with other people that are more similar to you."



This raises the grim, intriguing prospect of a layer of the community only the most dastardly offenders will ever experience - an Xbox Live populated exclusively by griefers, trash talkers, and sharers of illiterate comments about your parentage or sexuality. It's almost like Microsoft has created the Xbox Live version of hell, we suggested. "I didn't say that," Lavin retorted with a grin. "Some people might like to play with people that are similar to them. I would not necessarily want to play with those folks."

The system will be proof against exploitation, he continued. "Let's just be clear, there is no way at all that a conglomerate of people can conspire to sink your Reputation on the system. The way that it's built fundamentally stops that. It's very much over a period of time - if we see consistently that people, for instance, don't like playing with you, that you're consistently blocked, that you're the subject of enforcement actions because you're sending naked pictures of yourself to people that don't want naked pictures of you... Blatant things like that have the ability to quickly reduce your Reputation score."

Examples of positive behaviour might include engaging with Microsoft's community programmes, such as Xbox Live Rewards. "Reputation is just like Achievements - you want your Reputation score as high as you can get it. There may even be opportunities where if you participate in some of our community programmes, your reputation can even get higher."

Other guiding principles you might want to bear in mind include the system's handling of anonymity. "It will be smart enough to determine if anonymity is required in a scenario. Essentially, if you pop in to a multiplayer experience, the folks that you're friends with will see your real identity information - which is again controllable. Anonymous folks will see your anonymous Gamertag." A party's overall Reputation score will be that of the player with the lowest Reputation, Lavin adds, which should ensure that unsportsmanlike players feel the weight of peer pressure.



At the time of recording, Microsoft was still thrashing out many of the details, including how Reputation will be displayed. "It will be as fully visible as Gamerscore in your profile, so it's taking an as-important role. The star system, I don't know what it'll look like. There's actually different schools of thought on do we use stars, do we use numbers, do we use other symbols."

Strip it back to the fundamentals, and Xbox One is a console built around the idea of minimal friction - instant switching between games, TV and movies, no annoying wait for the console to boot up, and no pause to fire up a complimentary phone or tablet application. It makes sense, then, that the manufacturer also wants to take the business of avoiding Xbox Live's miscreants out of your hands.

"We're one of the only platforms that really takes an interest in exploring and investigating major problems, and this extends from sexual harassment, to age harassment, to gender to everything else under the sun," Lavin concluded. "Really fostering a sense of community and providing an infrastructure for that is a huge deal." You can read more about all this in issue 100. How would you police the next generation version of Xbox Live?

 

[xtreme_Zr2]

Sounds good but there's a VERY fine line there they will need to balance. For example, I'm a great sport and never (eh, I guess rarely) will quit a match early if I'm losing. But many others are not like that. I was getting negged in GTA IV quite a bit because I was winning a lot of races in going for the AWP achievement. My buddy gets negged for being very good at Battlefield.

So if they throw me in purgatory for being good at a certain game, this will most certainly backfire. But I like the potential of not playing with team killing dicks anymore.

 

[dmaul1114]

Agreed. If they can make it work that would be a great feature. But as to be tricky to sort out the assholes from people getting neg feedback from dominating (not a problem I'd have though since I suck at mp games).

 

[Erad30]

Dude everyone knows why you aren't buying it. You continue to tell us. I don't get the point. Congrats on your PS4 I hope you enjoy it I really do.

And no folks from your camp aren't here to discuss things they like and don't...just to bash. What is the point? Do you get a trophy from Sony for standing up for them on the Internet? I just don't get it. I am not all up in the PS4 thread all the time stating why I'm not getting one. I have posted in there but mostly articles and pictures.

I'm not in a camp just like you aren't in a camp. Hell I'm not even getting a system this year. I'm also fairly sure every time you (or ashane for that matter) and I have debated something it's been a different issue, therefore having a different point. I haven't repeated much of anything and I'm certainly not interrupting every other post saying THIS IS WHY I'M NOT BUYING AN XBOX ONE!. Hell now that they've changed their stance I said I'm probably getting one at some point, and for once I'm being reasonable on both and waiting til they have a library/price that appeals to me (which I've said in the PS4 pre-order thread and other threads btw) but there are other issues which I've listed but haven't harped on again and again. You or anybody posts an article or picture I'm pretty damn sure I'm allowed to post an opinion positive or negative, which I haven't even been doing that much. Sure there was a lot of discussion right after E3 there's always going to be (and the subsequent about face by MS), but it's died down a lot since then because most of us have pretty much said our piece and there hasn't been a whole ton of big developments system-wise since then.

 

[thenutman69321]

A total overhaul of Xbox Live is one of Microsoft's big plays for next gen, and there are fascinating consequences as regards the Reputation system. This is being upgraded from Xbox 360's simple five-star rating to a learning system which will track player misbehaviour and effectively create tacit communities of ne'er do wells, safeguarding the rest of us from their evil designs. Speaking to OXM at an exclusive Xbox One reveal event in May, Microsoft's senior product manager Mike Lavin explored the ramifications.

I'm worried about abuse no matter how many protections they have in place, people usually figure out a way around it. I am also skeptical of this new program and if will have any actual change on the community but no matter what it's gotta be better than the 5 stars that aren't even accurate.

A couple days after I got my 360 I saw those stars and had a friend of mine give me bad rep just to see what would happen. I immediatley got 5 stars and it has never moved since then. How the does that make sense?

 

[Erad30]

I would love it if the rep system is a success, because I rarely play online since it's not usually a fun experience and I'm usually too busy to actually schedule anything like a game night with people on my friends list so I just usually run into complete assholes, even more so in co-op experiences like ME3's MP, which is the first I had really gotten into since Halo 3/COD 4. I still dabble a bit (did enjoy some online Injustice when I rented it) but mostly the online experience just isn't fun anymore but that's hardly limited to 360.

 

[Richard Kain]

This raises the grim, intriguing prospect of a layer of the community only the most dastardly offenders will ever experience - an Xbox Live populated exclusively by griefers, trash talkers, and sharers of illiterate comments about your parentage or sexuality. It's almost like Microsoft has created the Xbox Live version of hell, we suggested. "I didn't say that," Lavin retorted with a grin. "Some people might like to play with people that are similar to them. I would not necessarily want to play with those folks."

Sadly, this is the majority of XBox Live experiences for most people. This is the kind of audience that Microsoft has been fostering and catering to with their marketing. Major publishers have been complicit in these efforts by the kind of games they produce and promote on the 360.

On a more positive note, a rather antagonistic on-line community isn't going to be a make-or-break matter on the XBox One. I strongly suspect that there will be a large percentage of XBox One owners who continue to ignore XBox Live Gold. While many "core" gamers have been highly critical of the XBox One's media features, I know quite a few people who are interested in this new box specifically because of them. Several people that I've talked to about the XBox One are very keen on it's ability to interface with existing cable, and provide voice controls for media via the Kinect. Most of these people have been male. But they've also been older. Most of them are in their late 20s to early 40s. One of them even told me that he was able to "sell" his wife on acquiring an XBox One because of its ability to be controlled by voice.

Believe it or not, there may very well be a sizable audience who would be interested in the XBox One largely for its ability to be used as a $500 voice-controlled TV remote. For most of these people, the video game functionality is a nice bonus, not a core feature.

Now that the DRM shenanigans have been sorted out, Microsoft may actually be able to reach a decent chunk of the U.S. market with this device. All of the potential customers I spoke with were financially successful individuals with disposable income that they could put towards such a device. (ideal target demographic for an expensive media box) The XBox One will still be a much harder sell outside of the U.S., but in its home country there is still reason to believe that it will do well. It just might be attracting a different initial audience than the 360 did.

Game developers need to wrap their mind around this, and soon. The kind of games that will do well on the XBox One are NOT the same that dominated the 360. Titles that better cater to the kind of crowd that will be picking up the XBox One early will be able to thrive.

 

[Puffa469]

This is tough for me because the 360 is my main console this gen (I have a PS3 but mainly for BR movies and PS3 exclusives). and I MUCH prefer the 360 controller over the dualshock, but I absolutely do not want and will not have a Kinect in my house.  I do have privacy concerns about it, but even more so I dont want to talk to my console, or wave my arms at it to get things done.  And I fear that MS will beg and incentivize developers to shoehorn crappy Kinect elements into games that otherwise dont need them.  I dont want to make a

'batarang throwing motion' to throw my batarang in the next Arkham game.

I'll get a 180 eventually, probably when theres a pricecut or a slim redesign ( I eventually get all the consoles), or as soon as I hear confirmation that I can plug my Kinect in, wrap it in duct tape, and drop it into my fishtank, and still use my console.

 

[Erad30]

Well doesn't that speak to a huge potential pending issue though similar to the Wii where no one could make money? Add to that, Nintendo sold the Wii at a profit, MS is selling the Xbox One at a loss (apparently "THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS" of loss). They need to sell more than just COD and Madden if they don't want to take a huge financial bath on this. Though admittedly they could probably afford to, it just won't look good for their investors when the want to launch Xbox 2 r whatever you want to call it.

 

[dmaul1114]

This is tough for me because the 360 is my main console this gen (I have a PS3 but mainly for BR movies and PS3 exclusives). and I MUCH prefer the 360 controller over the dualshock, but I absolutely do not want and will not have a Kinect in my house. I do have privacy concerns about it, but even more so I dont want to talk to my console, or wave my arms at it to get things done. And I fear that MS will beg and incentivize developers to shoehorn crappy Kinect elements into games that otherwise dont need them. I dont want to make a 'batarang throwing motion' to throw my batarang in the next Arkham game.

That's my situation exactly, as well as thinking $500 is just too much for a console.

But I loathe motion controls, so I'd only consider picking one up down the road if all the Kinect stuff ends up being optional in the vast majority of games.

 

[Erad30]

I can just imagine the outrage if there's any mandatory kinect shit in Titanfall. I don't think they are that stupid but you never know.

 

[Puffa469]

Not to mention that the 360's RROD issues (I've owned 3 in my time), and every Windows release ever have taught me to NEVER buy any Microsoft product at launch.  Hell I finally updated from Win XP to Win 7 in Nov 2012 when I built a new gaming rig. 

 

[thenutman69321]

as soon as I hear confirmation that I can plug my Kinect in, wrap it in duct tape, and drop it into my fishtank, and still use my console.

Haha. Mine will get covered up immediately that's for sure. I wouldn't suggest the fish tank though since the console doesn't work without it.

I can just imagine the outrage if there's any mandatory kinect shit in Titanfall. I don't think they are that stupid but you never know.

From the things I've read it seems they are pushing pretty hard for it to have features in most or every game unfortunately. My hope is that for most games it will be completely optional though.

Not to mention that the 360's RROD issues (I've owned 3 in my time), and every Windows release ever have taught me to NEVER buy any Microsoft product at launch. Hell I finally updated from Win XP to Win 7 in Nov 2012 when I built a new gaming rig.

I could be wrong but I don't think there will be the same kind of issues. I hope they've learned from their mistakes. I've gone through 3 X360s as well.

 

[esquire]

I can just imagine the outrage if there's any mandatory kinect shit in Titanfall. I don't think they are that stupid but you never know.

Don't underestimate a corporation's stupidity. I only need to point out the forced Sixaxis motion control scheme with Lair when it was first released.

 

[The Ebbtide]

Sounds good but there's a VERY fine line there they will need to balance. For example, I'm a great sport and never (eh, I guess rarely) will quit a match early if. But many others are not like that. I was getting negged in GTA IV quite a bit because I was winning a lot of races in going for the AWP achievement. My buddy gets negged for being very good at Battlefield.
So if they throw me in purgatory for being good at a certain game, this will most certainly backfire. But I like the potential of not playing with team killing dicks anymore.

I'd feel like they'd also need a way of balancing bad players, though. I know I've yelled a few times at people who genuinely hurt and cost the team in many games. While I can understand the need to not allow yelling, there are defintely people who are bad at games and should be isolated away from those whose experience they hurt. Everyone here knows what I mean, as you know you've played more than a few games where you've definitely lost games when you should have won. I'm not being elitist. I just hope they have a better TrueSkill program that works across all games so that people actually are paired with players their skill.

I've always viewed Xbox Live as a sort of Country Club. If I have to pay to use the privilege of it, then there definitely should be privileges.