perdition(troy
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but but but clive bundy FIGHTING THE MAN.
black people uh uh uh uh uh THEY ARE THUGS
nudge nudge
black people uh uh uh uh uh THEY ARE THUGS
Let's argue about Mike Brown!
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I don't see an issue with reporting all deaths. What I take issue with is the assumption that that LEOs will be at fault without looking at all the facts. Case in point, the origination of this topic, Ferguson. There's still people out there that are ignoring the preponderance of evidence pointing in the Officer's favor. When facts are brought up, they're outright ignored or it's "an assassination of character". Instead of finding causality, it's immediately "evidence of miscondunct" or "racism". Yet, if the same logic was used to determine anything else, people would point out the other variables involved and ask for proof that the variable directly related to the result.
Cliven Bundy was a sovereign citizen, and should've been treated as one. I have no issues with open carry, but the second hostility arises, direct orders are being ignored, and guns risen . . . nope. He should be in jail or dead. Instead of using the options given to him, he went to armed rebellion and extremism. He's a ticking time bomb, much like McVeigh. The courts are where battles should be fought, not the streets. Armed rebellion is the last option, period.
I stand by the NYPD Union Reps and the NYPD officers. De Blasio has time and time again proven to be a political puppet that doesn't support his officers. If that was here, I'd have it written in my will that he was not allowed to be present at my funeral. Thankfully, we're supported here from the top down at every level.
There's also nothing wrong with holding LEOs to a higher standard, as they are. At the same time, there is some leniency depending on what was done because mistakes happen. Everyone is human, including LEOs. I can guarantee you that you've made at least one mistake while on the job in a less stressful environment in which the consequences aren't nearly as high. Now, depending on what that mistake is, the consequences for an Officer are different. If it's a question of integrity and there's proof of intent (say, theft of evidence), out the door and criminal charges. If it's an honest mistake in an otherwise good career, re-training and provide the resources needed to keep it from happening again. If it becomes a habit, out the door.
If you want perfect LEOs, you're going to need to hire robots. No one would take the job if they couldn't make a mistake, because the pay isn't worth it and no one is perfect. Especially when the side effects of the job (based of the situations dealt with on a daily basis) include: PTSD, higher divorce rates, anxiety, etc.
Side note: Everyone has the right to "legally kill someone". It comes down to self-defense and the law. Officers get a bit more leniency in this because:
1) They are put in these situations at a much higher rate than a normal person.
2) They are expected to confront these situations and not flee. Part of the job description is to capture and actively pursue criminals, despite the inherent risk. Something that the general public is greatly discouraged against doing, and is told to flee from.
It cannot be expected that an officer knows everything at all times. Which is why shootings are evaluated based off the information known at the time by the officer. Again, no one would take the job if mistakes can't be made in a job where split seconds cost lives.
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Just heard the "What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want them? Now!" chant from a protest on Saturday. What type of idiot gets sucked into this mob mentality, especially when there is no evidence that race was a significant factor in any of these current "killer racist cop" stories. Gruber is right, American intelligence is hitting rock bottom. It is great to be passionate about something, but make sure you have verified data and evidence before marching in the streets.
n8rockerasu
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Since you definitely read it and aren't just taking a passing jab, in what way did it lack substance?
Finger_Shocker
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How many mistakes did you make that ended up KILLING a person?
You think killing a person would ever be consider a "mistake"
Tell me how many other jobs can you get away will MURDER or KIlling someone? Are you farking serious
Last farking time I made a mistake no harm no foul, I can correct it. How are you going to correct a dead body, moron !!! You have the ability to raise people from the dead?
So we should all give cops the benefit of the doubt whenever they kill someone, how about we also give every cop a ONE license to kill card for anyone they choose with a get out of jail one too.
Basically you just admitted it, you want everybody in power to support police, the good and especially the corrupt and bad ones too, without question. How dare people in power and leadership stand against bad cops.
The police answer to the elected officials NOT THEIR UNION, instead we now have people in charge being controlled by a corrupt police force. The police are now bullying our elected officials.. When did police call the shots?
The police work for the city and they follow the orders of people we elect, that is how our laws work.
Now we see your true colors, you want the police to be GODS and they are the last and only voice. They are the authoritarians. You want the police to be able to do coups whenever they see fit I bet.
You are a farking narcissist, such personality with a person in authority is a even more dangerous.
LOL!!! The Police Union and all those thugs who turned their backs to the mayor were all WHITES, who refuse to acknowledge racism within their institution, yup no racist pigs there...
You should go sign that waiver, it obviously you do not follow the orders of justly elected leaders, unlike those of police
You're so . . . wow. I don't even know how to respond to such stupidity. But I'll try.
In LE, unpredictable events occur. For example, a 12 year old deciding to pull what appears to be a gun on police. After the fact, it comes out that said gun isn't really a gun, but an airsoft replica. Well, I'd consider that a mistake, despite being justifiable in the situation. And I wouldn't blame an officer for doing so, seeing as kids can kill too.
I don't even know why I dignified you with any response. You make strawman arguments, and come off as so ignorant that it's hard to believe you're not a troll. You can't even address any of my points in a reasonable manner without blowing things entirely out of proportion.
Then again, what should I expect from a criminal and a blatant racist?
Thanks for proving my point though. And your support. I love it when criminals prove that I'm right in my life choices.
U mad bro?
Finger_Shocker
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Only criminal here is you that you have a god-complex think you are justified in killing people without fully assessing any situation.
Oh look kid waving a gun, lets shoot him. By the way if this 12 year old that had a gun and was waving it around, how come no one reported any gunshots, holy shit maybe the gun my be fake or empty.
You didn't make any right choice in the end you are just as crooked as the ones you claim you fight against.
Oh look kid waving a gun, lets shoot him. By the way if this 12 year old that had a gun and was waving it around, how come no one reported any gunshots, holy shit maybe the gun my be fake or empty.
You didn't make any right choice in the end you are just as crooked as the ones you claim you fight against.
Keep doing what you do. I'll continue to have job security as long as people like you are around. Thanks for your support!
Finger_Shocker
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Who knew cops would be so opposed to people protesting to only ask them to not shoot UNARMED people...
Keep it up, we just found another corrupt and bad officer: Right here above me
You just prove to everyone that you are the problem. How dare people oppose the killing of unarmed people. You want to go and beat a homeless guy to death too. Oh wait another cop already beat you to it.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/13/us/california-homeless-beating-verdict/
[quote name="Finger_Shocker" post="12353151" timestamp="1419329230"]
Who knew cops would be so opposed to people protesting to only ask them to not shoot UNARMED people...
Keep it up, we just found another corrupt and bad officer: Right here above me
You just prove to everyone that you are the problem. How dare people oppose the killing of unarmed people. You want to go and beat a homeless guy to death too. Oh wait another cop already beat you to it.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/13/us/california-homeless-beating-verdict/[/quote]
How quickly you forget things. I'll never forget Officer David Smith. But you already did.
Then there's this:
http://www.breachbangclear.com/ferguson-idiot-cops-and-experts-who-know-nothing-at-all/
Who knew cops would be so opposed to people protesting to only ask them to not shoot UNARMED people...
Keep it up, we just found another corrupt and bad officer: Right here above me
You just prove to everyone that you are the problem. How dare people oppose the killing of unarmed people. You want to go and beat a homeless guy to death too. Oh wait another cop already beat you to it.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/13/us/california-homeless-beating-verdict/[/quote]
How quickly you forget things. I'll never forget Officer David Smith. But you already did.
Then there's this:
http://www.breachbangclear.com/ferguson-idiot-cops-and-experts-who-know-nothing-at-all/
I am fairly certain that he is making a reference to the Tamir Rice case, a perfect example of how video evidence completely changed the narrative the officers had going.
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[quote name="Msut77" post="12353162" timestamp="1419331184"]I am fairly certain that he is making a reference to the Tamir Rice case, a perfect example of how video evidence completely changed the narrative the officers had going.[/quote]
That they shot a kid who was pulling a gun?
Yup, totally wrong narrative based off that video. 0.5 FPS video with no sound that still shows him reaching and pulling out the gun.
Glad to have your expert opinion, biscuit. Need more butter?
That they shot a kid who was pulling a gun?
Yup, totally wrong narrative based off that video. 0.5 FPS video with no sound that still shows him reaching and pulling out the gun.
Glad to have your expert opinion, biscuit. Need more butter?
What of a situation where the was water left on the floor and an older individual slipped, fell and died from complications related to the fall.
Should the employees of this company who allowed the water to sit in the floor be charged with murder for their mistake?
Finger_Shocker
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Such B.S.
Still does not come even close to all the innocent unarmed people killed by police
Let's refresh some memory: I hope you feel sorry for these families but I bet not since you are a narcissist and sociopath who approve of acceptable casualties.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/27/us/north-carolina-police-shooting/ ( case of pure stereotyping that lead to a man death )
http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/11/unarmed-college-student-getting-little-national-attention/# ( swept under the rug )
http://gawker.com/cop-shoots-kills-unarmed-college-student-after-sarcast-1479459282 ( just to talking back to a cop )
http://rt.com/usa/207795-police-officer-kill-unarmed/
Again I can list hundreds of other cases where police just shot someone for no apparent reason. Gun + Badge = God complex
This is despicable. I hope she sues em and wins just like Zimmerman for the editing of his 911 tape by NBC. Who has the time and resources to verify every news story they see or read? No wonder everybody has a different take on every story.....Was the tape of the chant I heard edited? It sounded like "What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want them? Now!".
http://dailysurge.com/2014/12/nypd-protestors-get-wish-want-dead-cops-want-now/
Can anyone make out the other chants?
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Yup. An article with tons of citations is "just BS". You're obviously right.
I love your accusations without any backing, and your purely strawmen arguments. Again, LE crime, even if 5 a DAY is less than the national average for VIOLENT CRIME alone. But way to be dismissive of these facts. I have evidence backing the fact that you are a racist and a hypocrite via your own statements.
Where's your evidence, buddy boy?
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Ok. So what does that have to do with "critics" knowing better than "experts?"
Huh?
Well, he isn't in jail or dead. I guess that means that if people are protesting, they should either have a CCW or open carry(where allowed) if they don't want to be kettled or be tear gassed?
The citizens of NYC elected him so isn't he just acting on behalf of his constituency? I mean if you want fracking in your backyard or public utilities like street lights selectively shut off and the like, you have politicians like Ted Cruz and Michelle Bachmann. If you want your police force running chain gangs, you have guys like Joe Arpaio. It's not like any elected politician is telling cops to stand on line with a can of silly string and harsh language. Seriously, this attitude reeks of cops being petulant children. There's a a reason why Stop & Frisk was terrible policy in practice.
I'm all for retraining, counseling, and unions, but when most investigations into charges against cops are dismissed when a cop kills someone under questionable circumstances, it implies that cops, are in fact, perfect! AND with lower burdens of proof because cops are taken at their word. Does that sound like a "higher standard" to you? I mean it seems like as long as there's a mere suspicion, lethal force is justified to you. "Shoot first; ask questions later" isn't how the police should be operating.
You don't see a problem with the public and media making unfounded opinions and crucifying officers with them? I mean, there was a cubic
ton of evidence backing Wilson. Literally the only evidence that co-coincided unquestionably with Wilson using lethal force unjustifiably were eyewitness accounts, many of which were later found to not of even been present at the time of the shooting! But we still have protesters saying that Mike Brown was a "victim of police brutality".I think when I used the terms "sovereign citizen" and "extremistm, I wasn't clear enough. He's a terrorist, period. And should be treated as one.
When it comes to tear gas . . . well, maybe protesters shouldn't attack officers? Just saying, after the Ferguson and Garner decisions, it was used pretty sparingly. Oakland, CA got a pretty good dose of it and so did Ferguson, MO. Then again, they had massive amounts of vandalism and attacks on officers.
NYPD? They marched with protesters. And still were attacked. Their use of tear gas was minimal.
So, because he was elected, I should suddenly respect the man while he's making blanket statements demonizing my brothers and sisters? I'm sorry, but that's not going to happen. His racebaiting behavior added fuel to the fire of the protesters. He did not sit in on the grand jury trial to hear the facts presented. He made blanket inflammatory statements that demonized the entire police force, and when officers have been obviously assaulted or attacked, it's been "allegedly" in his own words. He chooses his words carefully, and the message has been clear: I do not support my own police force.
No one is denying that there are bad officers out there. But to paint a picture that the entire police force is corrupt and hungry for blood, and all minority children are unsafe? That's irresponsible and has been his MO from day one.
The justice system has been setup to let 100 guilty walk free so that 1 innocent isn't jailed. A large part of the criminal justice system involves intent, or mens rea. Which is why you do not see many convictions for, say, Doctors. Or, you know, Law Enforcement. This part of the law isn't just for these individuals either. It's across the board.
Do you really think officers aren't held to a higher standard? I mean, what are the in-depth background checks for? And why do you think officers get suspended for their actions off duty, out of uniform, that have no impact on how they perform their duties? That's not to say that things always work out like the above example, but that tends to be the case more than what actually makes the news.
Mere suspicion as justification to use lethal force? Where do you get that from? If someone ignores direct orders and pulls out what appears to be a weapon, any reasonable person would assume they plan on using it. Seeing as it only takes one lucky shot to end a life, it's not reasonable to allow someone to get that first shot off before reacting. If you think differently, then perhaps you and I should switch jobs.
If "shoot first; ask questions later" actually was how things worked, there would be shootings non-stop, everyday, everywhere based off the fact that there's approximately 780,000 active LEOs nationwide. The vast majority have not had to use lethal force in their entire careers.
Again, painting the entire nation's police force as over-zealous with force and racist is reaching (as De Blasio has implied many times). The system isn't perfect. But it certainly isn't nearly as bad as the media, certain politicians, and certain individuals here have been painting it to be.
Side note: I'd love to see outside agencies investigate lethal force encounters, and do random use of force evaluations. But then again, I'd also love to see officers receive continual training that isn't paid out-of-pocket. Sadly, I don't see it happening because, once again, politicians would rather focus on the wrong things. Which means the budgets will continue to be short, and agencies will be left out to dry. Especially now that a ton of agencies are going to have to implement body cameras and a system to deal with them.
Politicians and their priorities . . . sigh.
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Uhhh...did you read the article that you posted? Because it really seems like you didn't.You don't see a problem with the public and media making unfounded opinions and crucifying officers with them? I mean, there was a cubic
Any thoughts on why he wasn't treated like one?
Do you count the undercover cops acting as agent provocateurs as protestors? How about members of the media? Or how about the groups of people that were just standing around or hanging out in various cafe's?
What is sparingly to you?
LOLZ..."racebaiting behavior?" Are you saying that his comments are just as bad, if not worse, than the actual policies practiced by the NYPD in a racist manner that bring things to a boiling point? Should he be ignorant of how his son would be treated by cops because his skin isn't white? Should you be ignorant of the history of racism of that city if you want to make those types of comments? Or does it not matter because you think he's sassing your fellow cops?
Statistics show that people of color get the short end of the stick and holes from bullets compared to whites when it comes to law enforcement.
We don't exactly have a sparkling record for that cliche and there's something called "manslaughter" and a whole host of other things that cover lack of intent. I don't intend to get into a car accident, but if I
up someone's car or kill someone by accident, I still gotta pay and not going to get off with a slap on the wrist or have to go through the motions of a remotely possible indictment.Ok, so why don't they always work out like your example?
Not sure if you're referring to the Rice case here because I've seen the video. Are you trying to bullshit me or something? It's one thing if we saw the cops slowly come into the frame while issuing orders, but that clearly wasn't the case. C'mon now.
You took me a bit literally there, but that doesn't invalidate my point. When it comes to black males, cops tend to react before thinking. Cops should not be the reactionary blunt end of a billy club of the law.
It is if you're black and De Blasio has a very special interest when it comes to that. Racial profiling isn't a new or isolated occurrence in NYC or any community with black people.
Well, there are tons of academics that do studies on what you're describing. As for continual training, I also agree. Your problems are unique because of being in Detroit(if Iremember correctly), but it wouldn't surprise me if better funded cities/states have a continuing education program at the very least. Or maybe instead of departments buying up military surplus, they should use that money on community outreach, which would go a long way in repairing relationships.
That tank manufacturer is based out of that congressman's district and spent 11 million on lobbying. Not to mention that Congress flipped this last election. FYI, The Daily Mail is a tabloid news rag.
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I did. But I also went on to research the numbers presented in that original article, and it's citations. Some interesting points were brought up by a guy I'm "meh" on. But when taking recent history into account, I'd say that cherry picking facts from what will be reported isn't exactly an unfounded thought process. Which is what I was pointing out and why I'm skeptical of how the data will be used by the media / politicians.
My guess? The entire operation being ran by the Bureau of Land Management (who isn't exactly prepared to deal with such matters), disputes in the courtroom still being ongoing from both sides, the sheer number of people involved, and the mass media attention made it so that it'd be deemed an unjust use of force like Waco. I'd venture to guess there was a lot of politics in play also, and that the entire issue isn't done yet.
The one set that was found out? Sure. I'd also consider the media to be large in it, seeing as they were the ones consistently airing "eyewitness testimony" that was absolutely bullshit (literally anyone who walked up to the camera that could speak) and airing "expert opinions" by anyone off the street. Groups of people standing in a cafe? No.
Sparingly is sparingly? I'm not sure how to measure that term. It was used at appropriate times, in a non-excessive manner, to control crowds that were damaging property and violent. Before the lack of indictment, it may of been used a bit excessively. At the same time, I give them a bit of leeway since rioting / crowd control of that size isn't exactly a common occurrence.
What specific policies target minorities there now? I don't work there, so I can't say everything is "better" 100% now, but last I checked, stop-and-frisk is gone. Are there any other unfair policies active now? And is there something wrong with targeting high crime areas? He should not be ignorant of his son's color and the perception that others may have because of it, but to paint the police like they WILL target him outright is ludicrous. If he wants to push reform in the NYPD, he can go for it. But to first beat them with a bat is counterproductive to that cause. He's fostering more of an "us vs. them" mentality, and that works directly against fostering community policing. Ignoring the past shouldn't be happening, but acting like it's still actively ongoing at the same levels shouldn't either.
The second part I'll get to a bit farther down.
So, we should push to prosecute more innocent people because the record isn't sterling by making the burden of proof less? Manslaughter . . . what charge would you give the officer that was involved in the Garner case based off the definitions given? Mind you, I'm asking this without all the facts that were aired in the Grand Jury trial being out there . . . but I'm curious your thoughts and the reasoning behind it.We don't exactly have a sparkling record for that cliche and there's something called "manslaughter" and a whole host of other things that cover lack of intent. I don't intend to get into a car accident, but if Iup someone's car or kill someone by accident, I still gotta pay and not going to get off with a slap on the wrist or have to go through the motions of a remotely possible indictment.
From my viewpoint, he wouldn't be charged with Voluntary Manslaughter due to the lack of intent. For Involuntary, it couldn't fall under Constructive because he was making an arrest (a lawful act). Which only leaves Criminally Negligent, which would be determined using a reasonable person standard (based off the expertise of a reasonable LEO, not your standard "reasonable civilian"). Without knowing what was presented, it's hard to say how this standard was painted in the trial . . . but I'm guessing it was painted in the officers favor seeing as there was no indictment. Which I'm not sure I agree with it. I'd like to see everything that was presented to make a real decision on it.
All in all, these standards are what make it very difficult to get an indictment or actually charge someone in these sort of cases though.
Why is it that at some jobs, some of the worst employees slide? If you can answer that question, you have your answer.
My answer? In short: Bad leadership / issues rooted in the entire department.
There's a term used in LE and military that describes what took place: Violence of action. For the uninitiated, it can be compared to the German's "blitzkrieg". Hit hard, hit fast, hit unexpectedly to catch someone offguard so that they are more willing to comply to your orders. It's used a lot if a weapon is involved to take the thought of using it out of the realm of possibility. The video that's been going around has no sound, and is literally playing a frame every 2 seconds. From what I take from it, they were going with that strategy. Personally, I'd of approached on foot . . . but their actions were still reasonable. Had their of been an actual firearm, they would of been in serious danger had a shot gone off. And based off what dispatch informed them, they may of felt a sense of urgency to intercept immediately before someone else was hurt / killed.
Do you have proof of causality there? I've read studies that go both ways. One of the most recent ones actually say the opposite. Without causality, it's hard to point fingers one way or another. In my experience, it's all reactionary based off the actions of the individual and not based off the color one's skin. Run or resist? More force is going to be required.
From my perspective, it's primarily certain areas (that have it ingrained in the leadership) that are hit with this most now. Case in point, here, it's a non-issue. In LA, I'd guess it's still a prevalent issue. Nationwide, I'd see it as spotty.
Not really. It's a problem nationwide. It has been that way for some time. Many departments make you qualify annually with your firearm. And for many officers, that's about how often they'll shoot it. A lot of re-training comes out of lawsuits, because it becomes mandatory. The old adage of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," seems to be the rule in hopes of saving money.
When it comes to military surplus, that is given to agencies via grants at no cost to the departments. The only real cost is maintenance and training. It saves money for the short term, but in the long term it can be cost prohibitive to keep up for smaller departments. And since many departments don't get professional training for the equipment, it's really just a maintenance cost.
I see the tank issue as just one in a pile of bills and budget issues that isn't being solved by either party. It's why I have a growing disdain for politicians. On the majority of issues I'm considered liberal (gay rights, abortion, education), and on select issues (like gun ownership), I'm conservative. If I was to identify by party, I'd consider myself independant / moderate.
All in all, I think Mike Rowe covers my thoughts on this entire issue pretty well. I'm pretty sick of the media and politicians fostering an "us vs. them" mentality non-stop. Having accountability for LE is a great thing, but it's gotta go both ways too.
. . .
Holy
, that was a doozy of an engagement. Thanks for it. I like the engagement, and it has fostered a lot more interest in me to further research areas that appear to be more "troublesome" in terms of LE.
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kickrockz713
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Now this was totally unnecessary http://www.tmz.com/2014/12/23/michael-brown-song-video-dead-police-parody-leroy-brown/
Agreed, Based on the lyrics in the article though, I am failing to see racism in the song,
perdition(troy
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@ fearwhatevera
your brothers and sisters
your job is no different then a cook. or a teacher. or a dishwasher. if they started paying you minimum wage you'd move onto the next job, there is absolutely nothing tying you to your work other than a paycheck and pension. you aren't some super family of workers. the egos on some of you ass clowns in law enforcement.
your brothers and sisters
your job is no different then a cook. or a teacher. or a dishwasher. if they started paying you minimum wage you'd move onto the next job, there is absolutely nothing tying you to your work other than a paycheck and pension. you aren't some super family of workers. the egos on some of you ass clowns in law enforcement.
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Thanks for your support and understanding! Now go ride that trike of yours!@ fearwhatevera
your brothers and sisters
your job is no different then a cook. or a teacher. or a dishwasher. if they started paying you minimum wage you'd move onto the next job, there is absolutely nothing tying you to your work other than a paycheck and pension. you aren't some super family of workers. the egos on some of you ass clowns in law enforcement.
Here we go again:
An officer involved shooting has occurred in Berkely, MO. 18 y/o black male. Early reports say his name was Antonio Martin.
Protesters have broken the police line at the crime scene.
Early photos show a gun next to an evidence marker.
Police are stating the shooting occured after the suspect pointed a gun at the officer. The shooting occured at a gas station with what appears to be a lot of cameras on scene.
An officer involved shooting has occurred in Berkely, MO. 18 y/o black male. Early reports say his name was Antonio Martin.
Protesters have broken the police line at the crime scene.
Early photos show a gun next to an evidence marker.
Police are stating the shooting occured after the suspect pointed a gun at the officer. The shooting occured at a gas station with what appears to be a lot of cameras on scene.
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Finger_Shocker
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Just admit it...
Police wants a blank check to do whatever they want, and how dare people question their authority. That's what its this boils down to, police do not want people to question their judgment and authority.
When people begin to question authority, its when authority loses its power. And it all boils down to power and police want that power to not be held accountable for whatever they do.
Our system of check and balances, is what police want immunity from
Police wants a blank check to do whatever they want, and how dare people question their authority. That's what its this boils down to, police do not want people to question their judgment and authority.
When people begin to question authority, its when authority loses its power. And it all boils down to power and police want that power to not be held accountable for whatever they do.
Our system of check and balances, is what police want immunity from
kickrockz713
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http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/12/24/teen-shot-killed-in-berkeley-gas-station-parking-lot/
You can clearly see him pull the gun out and point it at the officer towards the end.
You can clearly see him pull the gun out and point it at the officer towards the end.
How come those questioning authority tend to be the least educated, least contributing members of society and tend to question it in the least productive ways?
Purple Flames
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As sad as this is, this is one case where the shooting was actually justified. Still sucks it happened, though.
Actually, I think you've got your terms a bit mixed up.
Let me fix it for you:
There we go. Much better.
Thanks for your support!
P.S. If anyone followed social media directly after the shooting, along with certain news outlets (*cough* Huffington Post *cough*), you'd notice something very interesting: Lies and speculation ruled the day. Within a very short period of time, social media was exploding with "live reports" claiming the police just planted a gun. Also, "they just left him on the street for hours, choking on his own blood!". Huffinton Post even, at one point, had this posted as the narrative:
--
Jesus Christo, 18, told The Huffington Post that he and Martin were stopped by an officer who said they fit the descriptions of recent robbery suspects. Christo declined to speak over the phone, but spoke through direct messages on Twitter.
The officer attempted to search Martin, who refused, Christo said.
"The officer then stepped back and drew his weapon and pointed at Antonio and told us to lay on the ground," Christo said. "I layed [sic] down but Antonio Refused [sic]."
"The officer then began to step back from us with his gun still aimed at us. He told Antonio to lay down once again and when Antonio didn't lay down the officer opened fire. And when I tried to get up to help my friend he screamed at me to stay down with his weapon still drawn."
--
All with a headline saying "Unarmed Black Teenager Shot and Killed by Police".
Anyone else see a massive
ing problem here with journalistic integrity? At the same time these things were posted, protesters arrived and literally started attacking officers trying to document the scene. They rushed the officers, and interfered with the investigation.This bullshit has to end. It's the exact same bullshit that brought about the Michael Brown controversy. "We have to be the first to report on it!
integrity, we'll run whatever is given to us!"
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rebelschs
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It's racist because it is saying that a bad man is named Leroy Brown. Obviously the Liberals are trying to say only black men can be named Leroy Brown, and that they are bad.
Liberals make me want to puke.
Kezmer
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So in cased you missed it another young black male was killed by police 2 miles from Ferguson the other night. The video shows the kid pulling a gun on the officer and the officer shot and killed him. This isnt even close to mike browns case but the people are out burning and looting again. I was driving home christmas eve and had to pass right by this area and almost killed 2 people myself who were running on the interstate trying to close it down. I had to slam on my breaks and it was raining and dangerous. Its insane here everyday anymore
I remember the cops that shot that African immigrant multiple times during Giulliani's administration. But to Giulliani, one dead Black man is another dead bleep to him. Seriously with the way police went after Black men during Giulliani's reign you'd think he had a quota.
I'm curious what the cops in that case are hiding. They keep releasing more video, but it is edited. (either time cropped, or cropped frame)
Kezmer
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I have no idea, the first video i watched it really looks like a gun hes holding right by the camera watermark when it freezes. The other one i saw he was cropped out. They have a lot of stories on the guy too and pictures from his own facebook holding the gun that was recovered. Still all in all who knows anymore. After Mike Brown its really hard for most people to have any faith here anymore that anything is the truth.
Purple Flames
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Well in a update to the Antonio Martin story, he wasn't pulling out a gun. It was his cellphone. He was trying to film the police encounter.
Not sure if you can link to FB videos here, but you can clearly see his phone's screen in this video: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=274798549310794&fref=nf
Not sure if you can link to FB videos here, but you can clearly see his phone's screen in this video: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=274798549310794&fref=nf
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Kezmer
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Whether he had a gun or not actually isnt what they are going nuts for here. It supposedly took paramedics over 30 minutes to get to the scene and he could have been treated. I really dont know whats true but this one is really close to my house, even closer than ferguson so i hope people keep their cool
n8rockerasu
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Word is, that's not even the guy who got shot. But at this point, does it even matter? This shit has spiraled out of control, everything is being lumped under one umbrella, and people already have their minds made up. It's barely even worth discussing anymore.
The only wish I can have for anybody on this forum is take care of the ones you love and stay out of the bullshit. We all basically want the same damn thing, but can't figure out how to peaceably coexist to attain it. So civilized. So
ing dumb.
Kezmer
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Lol i already got robbed in November, I havent bought all my stuff back just in case I get nailed again. But to be fair it was white people who robbed me. Heroin addicts taking advantage of all the police 5 miles from here in Ferguson.
detectiveconan16
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30626381
Ezell Ford was pinned to the ground and shot in the back by LAPD officers according to the coroner. LAPD insists Ford was reaching for the officer's weapon.
I always wonder about "reaching for the gun," in the confrontations, considering I thought cops were equipped with "retention holsters" where most people would find it difficult to even take out the firearm in the first place. Why not use the other tools on the belt, from taser, pepper spray, to the billy club?
Ezell Ford was pinned to the ground and shot in the back by LAPD officers according to the coroner. LAPD insists Ford was reaching for the officer's weapon.
I always wonder about "reaching for the gun," in the confrontations, considering I thought cops were equipped with "retention holsters" where most people would find it difficult to even take out the firearm in the first place. Why not use the other tools on the belt, from taser, pepper spray, to the billy club?
n8rockerasu
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I get what you're saying, but honestly, if somebody IS actually reaching for an officer's gun, they deserve to be shot and killed. What needs to be hashed out though is what the burden of proof should be in such claims.
At the end of the day, any civilian with a CCP could use this same defense. He "went for my gun" and therefore "I feared for my life". That's not unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination. It does need to be proven somehow though.
perdition(troy
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I really don't feel that grabbing for someones gun means that your forfeit your life. There are no other options at that point? Just doesn't make much sense to me.
bread's done