Eddie Guerrero's wrestling topic (RIP 1967 - 2005)

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IGN Sports: Were you surprised WWE asked you back to help with the project considering all of the beef that went on?

Bret Hart: Yeah, I was. I never lost hope in the sense that before I knocked Vince out in Montreal, in the weeks even leading into that whole mess, I had brought up how important it was for me not to be forgot. That I wanted my legacy to be remembered. We were talking then about an anthology, a video collection of my greatest matches, but it didn't happen. So when I knocked him out in Montreal, I realized my career might never again see the light of day.

IGN Sports: Can we expect to see you inducted in the Hall of Fame for your fans as well?



Bret Hart: I'm not expecting to do the Hall of Fame. Maybe some time or some day, but I just feel, maybe it's because of my stroke, but I don't feel like I'm ready for that yet.
 
I'm glad you figured out what I was trying to say myke, I just haven't been able to express myself well today. I agree, the huge problem would be getting everyone to put their egos in check for long enough to go through with it, but in the long run it would definitely help out the industry.
 
[quote name='Drizzt']If this was directed at me, no I was not trying to "troll". I did not know that proceeds and production costs were two different things. I was actually trying to help YOU. Next time, I'll think twice on that....

Seriously, people acting all know-it-allish is why posting on message boards like this can be frustrating sometimes. Please realize that there are folks out there who do not have the same knowledge level as you.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. I apologize if I came on too strong. In your post, though, you only had 2 quotes w/o explaining what the exact purpose was. I hope you can see how I could have come to the conclusion that I did. Having said that, welcome to the thread.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']speaking of junkies, why hasn't RVD been fired?[/QUOTE]

Because weed is seen as completely different than other drugs by some people.
 
[quote name='neocisco']Because weed is seen as completely different than other drugs by some people.[/QUOTE]

Bingo. They flaunted it with The Godfather, and it's truly rather socially acceptable. You can be sure Eugene didn't have a dime bag.

Coke, though? mebbe.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Bingo. They flaunted it with The Godfather, and it's truly rather socially acceptable. You can be sure Eugene didn't have a dime bag.

Coke, though? mebbe.[/QUOTE]

Since you dropped both of those names I just imagined Eugene riding the ho train.:rofl:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Bingo. They flaunted it with The Godfather, and it's truly rather socially acceptable. You can be sure Eugene didn't have a dime bag.

Coke, though? mebbe.[/QUOTE]

Makes sense... weed seems to have become acceptable within all professional sports, so long as you don't go flaunting how much you love to smoke it, ie- Ricky Williams.
 
Thats what happen when wrestlers use steroids to buff up and shit. I am sure most of them are doing that. Not saying eddie did that but it wouldnt surprise me at all if they found that to be true.

- PsXtreme
 
[quote name='neocisco']Fair enough. I apologize if I came on too strong. In your post, though, you only had 2 quotes w/o explaining what the exact purpose was. I hope you can see how I could have come to the conclusion that I did. Having said that, welcome to the thread.[/QUOTE]

I will apologize as well as I put a ':)' smiley in it, but it was likely too small and too far below all the quotes to be seen easily. As I look back at it, I could see how you came to that conclusion as I'm also one of the more lurker posters here. Thanks for the thread greeting, no hard feelings I hope :)
 
[quote name='psxtreme']Thats what happen when wrestlers use steroids to buff up and shit. I am sure most of them are doing that. Not saying eddie did that but it wouldnt surprise me at all if they found that to be true.

- PsXtreme[/QUOTE]

I wonder if when they say Eddie's been clean for 4 years, if that included steroids or not, and if he used them 4 years ago or not.
 
I would probably look towards meth as the reason he got fired. I just don't really think that he looked like a coke head, and him getting beaten up while on meth would help alleviate some of the pain
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']I would probably look towards meth as the reason he got fired. I just don't really think that he looked like a coke head, and him getting beaten up while on meth would help alleviate some of the pain[/QUOTE]

Would tend to make sense, I believe we tossed around some theories as to what Jeff was on once before, I'm surprised that never came to light. He could be a needle user of some sort too, as he does have the stereotypical tattoos on his wrist and calf. Real shame if you ask me, Jeff Hardy was one of my favorites back during his WWE days. Hell he got a shot at Taker for the title, and came close to winning that match (we all knew he wouldn't, but he did come close) and I'm sure had he stuck around, cleaned up and got focused he'd probably be up where Edge is right now; just not sleeping with Lita, although that would've definitely been more interesting.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Would tend to make sense, I believe we tossed around some theories as to what Jeff was on once before, I'm surprised that never came to light. He could be a needle user of some sort too, as he does have the stereotypical tattoos on his wrist and calf. Real shame if you ask me, Jeff Hardy was one of my favorites back during his WWE days. Hell he got a shot at Taker for the title, and came close to winning that match (we all knew he wouldn't, but he did come close) and I'm sure had he stuck around, cleaned up and got focused he'd probably be up where Edge is right now; just not sleeping with Lita, although that would've definitely been more interesting.[/QUOTE]

Jeff Hardy was fired for cocaine use.
 
Meth is too strong to be able to capably travel and wrestle, as is heroin. OTOH, meth is sometimes referred to as "trucker's speed," so it might be something they use to stay awake during the hours of weekly road travel.

My guess is gonna be coke, though. Even with Jeff Hardy. I can assure you that even Jeff Hardy is too built to be a true junkie; he'd be bone thin if he were.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']

My guess is gonna be coke, though. Even with Jeff Hardy. I can assure you that even Jeff Hardy is too built to be a true junkie; he'd be bone thin if he were.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it was definitely cocaine, as I mentioned. Jeff admitted it in an interview.
 
Friday Night SmackDown! is already up at PWT.

I'm guessing it's MPEG VCD, though, which sucks.

Anyway, I was wondering... since a lot of different markets/time zones show SmackDown! at different times, how are we pulling off the chat tonight?
 
[quote name='Saucy Jack']Friday Night SmackDown! is already up at PWT.

I'm guessing it's MPEG VCD, though, which sucks.

Anyway, I was wondering... since a lot of different markets/time zones show SmackDown! at different times, how are we pulling off the chat tonight?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, KYR is a VCD group, the quality is usually poor. I'm not running the chat tonight, I forgot that my gf wanted to go see Walk the Line, so i'm DVRing SmackDown!. You guys can run the chat if you want.. my connection sucks today anyway, keeps dropping out.
 
so far it has been very good. You can tell they had the extra time because they have had more time to put together footage of the family and tell the backstory




















































Batista leaving the belt on the low rider was extremely touching.















































 
Sorry I didn't get to chat with you guys (if there was a chat). I felt sick and I ended up dozing off. Well, I suppose I'll watch my DVR copy and download a high-quality version when someone uploads it.
 
Wow, that was an awesome SmackDown! show for Eddie. I was about to lose it several times...

Also, it was odd to see Vince McMahon crying. Usually, you just see a calm, cool demeanor from him... even in dark times. But tonight, it was nice to see the human being behind the businessman.

The Benoit and Chavo matches were excellent.
 
In this late night edition of wrestling news John Tenta suffers set back, Guerrero's Survivor Series Team Smackdown! replacement, those who attended Guerrero's funeral, and a return to television for Ted DiBiase?

John "Earthquake" Tenta, who is battling cancer, got some bad news this past week. A tumor in his hip didn't react to chemo and has grown larger. He also has four large tumors on his lungs. His doctor has told him that the chances of long term survival are 10 to 20%.
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According to reports, Randy Orton will be involved in the Smackdown vs. Raw match at Survivor Series, replacing Eddie Guerrero. Looks like the Orton v. Undertaker match is off the card.
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Some of those attending Eddie's funeral yesterday in Scottsdale, AZ, were Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, JBL, Steve Austin, Sting, Chris Jericho, Edge, Christian, Lita, CM Punk, Shane Helms, among many
others and the entire Guerrero and McMahon family. Superstar Billy Graham led what was said to be an upbeat service with many recalling their fondest Eddie memories. Most of the WWE crew left on the company jet for Europe following the service.
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- Word is that Ted DiBiase may end up back in front of the camera as a WWE manager, rather than just working backstage as a road agent, perhaps as a manager to his son.
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[quote name='xxdeadp0olxx']In this late night edition of wrestling news John Tenta suffers set back, Guerrero's Survivor Series Team Smackdown! replacement, those who attended Guerrero's funeral, and a return to television for Ted DiBiase?[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the news. :)

It's sad to see Tenta on this rollercoaster ride. He does well, then gets worse... and it keeps repeating.

Also, I wonder what they are going to do with The Undertaker. He was supposed to return at SS and face Orton.

I wonder if Ted will come back as The Million Dollar Man or just as himself?

Also, another piece of news:

Rumors suggesting that Nick "Eugene" Dinsmore got in trouble with WWE management for participating in a bar fight are untrue.

Although the specifics are not known, Dinsmore was found passed out after the show in Manchester. He was taken to the hospital; upon release, he was sent home and indefinitely suspended.

No decision regarding his future has been made.
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DiBiase is great on the mic so putting him back on TV sounds like a good idea. Maybe some of these up-and-comers can learn how to draw real heel heat.
 
[quote name='neocisco']DiBiase is great on the mic so putting him back on TV sounds like a good idea. Maybe some of these up-and-comers can learn how to draw real heel heat.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I loved Ted's promos.

Also, here's something that a friend of mine sent me a while back. He gets some kind of wrestling newsletters, and here's some fan reviews of Ted DiBiase's wrestling promotion. Doesn't seem like your typical wrestling show, to say the least:

My son and I attended what we thought would be a fun night of wrestling action featuring some big name legends...DiBiase, HBK, Big Show, Brutus Beefcake, Doink, Tito Santana, Greg Valentine, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, etc. The show was Friday, Nov. 11, and was held at the Upper Room Christian Center in Dix Hills, Long Island. I knew that the event would get a little preachy...HBK is born again...but I never thought the nite would turn into a three hour lecture on why we should accept Jesus as our saviors.

Let's stop right there. Before anybody flames, let me just say that I'm not bashing the Christian faith here. If they want to preach, fine. But don't hold an event geared toward attracting the secular public under the guise of entertainment and then flood everyone with the word of God. I felt like I was suckered in, and many other people I spoke with felt the same.

I knew there would be Christian overtones but I was willing to deal with it. First of all, the wrestling was awful. The show started a half hour late and there were only four matches with an intermission after the 2nd match. After the "wrestling" was over, HBK and the other wrestlers testified about how they were saved. Then we were asked to watch something. A bunch of actors came out and re-enacted the Crucifixion, complete with a bloody Jesus, and they actually nailed him to the cross. This was very intense and WAY over the top, and I felt bad for all the little kids who didn't understand what was going on and just came to see wrestling. Turns out Ted DiBiase is a minister of the gospel...he gave a 45 minute sermon. The entire thing was very uncomfortable and I'll never go again.

Big show had a taped announcement that he couldn't make it...DiBiase said that he had someone else he was going to buy that nite...and Kane's music came on. I thought "Holy Sh*t!! Kane's here!!!!" Kane never came out. We were led to believe he was going to be part of the show when in fact he was only available for the autograph session after the show.

Like I said, I have no problem with Christians, but I wanted to give fair warning to anyone planning to attend one of these shows expecting to see wrestling. When I want to go to church (I'm Catholic), then I'll go to church.
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My friend lives in Hempstead, Long Island and we saw one of these Dibiase shows about two years ago, totally unsuspecting, because the line-up on the card was good. I had no idea anyone was born again, going into the show, but the beginning was cool because I met Brutus Beefcake and got a picture with him, he was eating some greasy pepperoni pizza and I was thinking, "Eew, I thought wrestlers ate healty," but it was a really interactive pre-show environment.

It took me awhile to figure out there was religious stuff because sometimes wrestlers play "demons" and midevil characters as gimmicks, but when they led the audience in prayer at one point, I thought it would be a promo and someone would come out, but then my friend and I realized it was real. It was getting really uncomfortable so I know what you're talking about. They weren't just like, "believe in God," they were like, "Satan is trying to get you all the time so be careful," and my friend, who is a practicting Christian was getting really freaked out.

But then it was SO FUNNY, because at the end of the show Dibiase said, "Everyone who accepts the Lord as their savior come into the ring and pray with me." And he was serious! They opened the guard rails and people were allowed to get into the ring. So I'm thinking, "Cool, I can be in the ring with the Million Doller Man!" Apparently, everyone thought that way because the whole crowd flooded the ring and IT BROKE! The ring flat out collapsed, the bottom fell out, the turnbuckles caved in, and everyone was screaming and trying to get out.

I know it sounds wrong, but I could not stop laughing. They were like, "God, I accept you as my lord and savior, deliver me from evil AAAAAAAAAAAAAH...."
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Also, I don't know if I mentioned this. My brother and I watched Eddie's DVD today again.

A few things made me cringe:

"I don't want to wake up one morning and get a call saying that my friend (Eddie) was found dead in his hotel room." - Dean Malenko


There is also a part where Eddie's friends talk about having to make him get help, and eventually the WWE lets Eddie go until he cleans up. Where did the meeting take place? Minneapolis... the city where Eddie passed away...
 
[quote name='Saucy Jack']Also, I don't know if I mentioned this. My brother and I watched Eddie's DVD today again.

A few things made me cringe:

"I don't want to wake up one morning and get a call saying that my friend (Eddie) was found dead in his hotel room." - Dean Malenko


There is also a part where Eddie's friends talk about having to make him get help, and eventually the WWE lets Eddie go until he cleans up. Where did the meeting take place? Minneapolis... the city where Eddie passed away...[/QUOTE]

I think Malenko mentioned that quote on his WWE Unlimited thingy where they share memories of Eddie.
 
The Smackdown tribute show was great IMO. Chavo winning the way he did was one of the most electric things I have ever seen.

Seeing Batista break down really got me though. I am just glad that they all have a way to get their emotions out. It should help all of them. I didn't record it because I thought it would be too sad compared to Raw, but now I think I'll download it.
 
Yeah, you should definitely download it, Guile.

I think PWT already had some HQ XVIDs up last night. They're probably getting hammered right now, though.

NOTE: For those who want a PWT account, they are taking signups again on the 23rd.
 
Time for the rasslin' news! Brought to you by... whatever you all want! :lol:

In this edition: Will Joey Styles stay on as the RAW announcer? Bret Hart news... Stacy Keibler shooting a movie right now... TNA news... new theme songs for certain wrestlers... and much more.

WWE.com has added some audio clips of Edge talking about the passing of Eddie Guerrero since he was unable to be at the TV tapings on Sunday in Minneapolis.

It was announced that last night's edition of Byte This with Bret Hart was the most watched WWE webcast online ever.

WWE has postponed this Sunday's Smackdown house show in Nottingham, Great Britain until April 2006. WWE management made these changes so that the Raw and Smackdown talents will be available for the TV tapings on Tuesday.

Chris Jericho will appear on Off The Record in Canada tomorrow.

According to MTV, the band Disturbed will be recording a new theme song for Triple H. The band also recorded a new theme song for Stone Cold Steve Austin back in 2001.

Also, Big Show is getting a new theme, possibly by Disturbed as well. These new themes are expected to be on a new WWE CD release next year.
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The only match announced for RAW this Monday night includes Kurt Angle vs. Shelton Benjamin. Talent from both brands will be at both TV tapings, so it is expected some angles will be done to help further some more matches and the upcoming Survivor Series PPV next week on November 27.

On a related note, many have been asking about the status of Joey Styles for RAW this Monday in Sheffield, England. From what is known following the Taboo Tuesday PPV, Styles agreed to work the November 7 and November 13 RAW events when WWE made the decision that Jerry Lawler and The Coach together wasn't working. Styles' appearances for WWE in the last few weeks have been considered a tryout or a "getting to know each other" time period. Other than that, nothing else was officially decided as Styles carries a full-time job in advertising in Atlanta. The WWE reportedly wanted to fly Styles to the UK for this week's RAW event, but there was said to be a conflict in Styles' schedule that would prevent it. From this point on, the general feeling is that some time of a deal will have to be worked out between Styles and WWE in order for him to leave his job in advertising for WWE full-time. If Styles appears on RAW this Monday, it more than likely means he reached a deal with the company. If he doesn't, it shouldn't be considered that he is officially done as it is possible a deal couldn't get talked about due to the passing of Eddie Guerrero and the company's busy overseas schedule.
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Brian Fitzpatrick sent this in: Just wanted to let you know, in the top 5 popular searches on MSN.com, Eddie Guerrero is in the #1 spot. Not sure if this is newsworthy or not, but kind of nice to see that people still care about him.

- Jennifer Kasaboski sent this in: Bret Hart will be on Off The Record on November 29th and John Cena will be on Mad TV on Nov 26 on Fox. In Canada, it will be on CH as at this time, there is Hockey on Fox but it may be a typo. Check listings to be sure.

- Jennifer Kasaboski also sent this in: The Fozzy concert in Ottawa on Nov. 14 was great. They played songs from all of their albums and then did an encore in which Chris Jericho dedicated to Eddie Guerrero. There was an Eddie chant as well. Afterwards, Chris hung around and had a drink with the fans, talked and posed for pictures. It was a great concert. Chris joked that since many bands know that they will be doing an encore, they go off stage to have fans think that they will not do one and then after the fans chants for an encore, the band comes back on stage and the fans cheer, then they will stay on stage and have the lights turned off as to give that illusion, which drew a lot of laughter. Reason Disappears, the opening band, was great as well (i am bias as i know the band personally - the drummer is a cousin). They will be releasing another cd in 2006 which will be a 7 song compilation. To check out the band, go to www.reasondisappears.com.

- The WWE published Bret Hart tribute magazine is now out on newsstands. The release of this magazine culminates with the new WWE produced Bret Hart DVD.

- TNA's next primetime special will be on Thursday, December 8th. SpikeTV will be airing the Video Game Awards on Saturday in TNA's slot. Jeff Jarrett and AJ Styles will be appearing at the awards.

- Shannon Moore's match on Impact this past week was actually a tryout match, although TNA has been talking about bringing him in for awhile, especially to travel with and keep an eye on Jeff Hardy.

- TNA has hired Dennis Brent. Brent has worked backstage in WWE and WCW.

- TNA has also hired Brian Fritz from Between The Ropes to help them with their upcoming audio show.
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One match has been announced for this Monday's RAW. Shelton Benjamin is set to take on Kurt Angle. It is expected that both groups will be both TV shows this week, so we can expect a lot of inter-brand stuff as WWE does their Survivor Series go-home TV shows this week.

Over at MTV.com features a story about the band Disturbed. They talk about how they will be recording a new theme song for Triple H and also mention that they did one for Steve Austin in the past.

Gamespot.com has posted a review of WWE Smackdown VS Raw 2006 for the Playstation 2. The gave the game a 8.9 out of 10, which scores the game as "great." In the opening description, the game is called "one of the best wrestling games ever released on the Playstaton 2." IGN.com also has a review up of the game. They scored it a 9.2 and described as "The best wrestling game since No Mercy. Period."
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WWE is set to be releasing a limited edition replica of Cena's spinning WWE championship belt. The belt features over 3000 faux diamonds and a three dimensional spinning WWE logo center plate. The high quality plating is a two tone silver and gold process molded from the original championship belt that Cena carries. The belt is slated for a December release.

Thanks to Matt C for sending this in: Just got back From Cambridge, MA Best Buy for The Bret Hart DVD event. I arrived at 3 PM and there were maybe 15 people waiting. After the 3 hour wait, which alone was fun as everyone sat around and talked pro wrestling. One college guy had a laptop playing old WWF/WCW stuff. I was about 33rd or 34th in line. The folks at Best Buy moved stuff around so everyone could watch the Bret Hart DVD on their big screen. Bret arrived right on time and the line moved very fast. He really didn't say much at all. They allowed only one part of the DVD to be signed but Bret took pictures with anyone who wanted one. There was a crowd of over 400 fans and growing as I left. It was well worth the wait. The Best Buy people were very nice and catered to the fans. I did ask Bret to please come back for one last hurrah and one final goodbye for the fans. All I got was a smile. Bret looked good.

Paul Heyman was backstage at Deep South Wrestling on Thursday's show.

Stacy Keibler has been doing a lot of movie auditions lately in Los Angeles, and has booked a role in a feature film titled "Manhunt in the Caribbean" which will also feature Louis Gosset Jr.
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From WWE.com: With just one week before the Survivor Series pay-per-view, be sure to tune into RAW Monday night on the USA Network (9/8 CT) as Eric Bischoff and his Superstars come to you from the United Kingdom. This week, Team SmackDown captain Batista leads his team of Randy Orton, JBL, Lashley & Rey Mysterio into RAW. What does The Animal's team have in store for their Survivor Series opponents? Watch RAW to find out. Also, in what promises to be an instant mat classic, Olympic Gold Medalist will take on his former associate Shelton Benjamin in one-on-one action. Shelton broke into WWE under Angle's tutelage, but did Angle teach him everything he knows?

As one could tell from the statement above, Randy Orton has replaced Eddie Guerrero as the 5th member of Team SmackDown!
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More news:

UPN representatives have been promoting an Eddie Guerrero show. UPN is listing a one hour special listed as "The Smackdown Special" for November 29th. We'll have to wait and see because nobody has 'officially' confirmed this.

Tatanka is telling friends that he has signed a WWE deal and is in much better shape than before.

Female wrestler Beth Carolan has signed a WWE developmental deal. A story can be found at star-gazette.com.

Last night's edition of Smackdown did a 3.1 fast rating. Final numbers will be out Monday.

Our good friends at WrestleMag.com sent this in: Seventeen "wannabe's" had their tryout's with WWE this past Thursday afternoon at the MEN Arena in Manchester, England prior to WWE's RAW brand house show. The trials lasted just under two hours and were cut shorter than was initially planned due to schedules and WWE officials running late. Alongside Kurt Angle and Shelton Benjamin were agents Ricky Steamboat and Fit Finlay, who assessed the group both in the ring and in front of the camera. Nobody was offered a deal on the spot, but everything was recorded, with talent told that the material would be assessed when WWE returned to the United States following Tuesday's Smackdown! TV tapings in Sheffield. Of the seventeen, several were said to have been in well over their heads, with just a small handful of the group said to have shown enough potential to merit a developmental contract. Those names include female wrestler Nikita, Eric Schwarz and Chris "Bambikiller" Raaber. Nikita has primarily worked in the UK with the FWA promotion, while Schwarz and Raaber have plied their trade throughout Europe for a number of years.
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Eddie Guerrero's name was the most searched for item on MSN.com over the past week.

Fox News Channel will be doing a story at 10EST tonight on Eddie Guerrero and the deaths in pro wrestling.

Phil Mushnick's New York Post column tomorrow will also have a story about deaths in pro wrestling.

Chris Jericho did an interview after his performance in Toronto last night and said wrestling needed to start treating it's performers better.

There is a Calgary Sun article at slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2005/11/19/1314066.html

There is an article on fans visiting Eddie's grave at eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=53537
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I hate Triple H, with a passion. I still don't like him, but after watching SmackDown I respect him a little bit more. It was a very good show and cool seeing Chavo out there. You knew what spots he would hit in the match, but it still felt great to see them.
 
[quote name='Saucy Jack']Phil Mushnick's New York Post column tomorrow will also have a story about deaths in pro wrestling.[/QUOTE]

Uh oh.
 
Some more news bits:

Petition that was started to get Eddie in this next Hall of Fame
http://new.petitiononline.com/eddiehof/petition.html
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Dave Meltzer has stated that the "death watch" rumor is FALSE. Take that for what you will.
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Nick Dinsmore's hospital visit and such was pretty much confirmed to be substance-related. It is believed by many backstage that Vince McMahon is paying for Dinsmore's rehab back in Kentucky, and that his job is safe.
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A newspaper article that's a bit heartbreaking:

On August 29th of 1985, a typical American man was hard at work on a construction site in rural Pennsylvania, perched high in the air like a bird. It was a typical summer afternoon, and with autumn drawing near he was looking forward to the relief those months would bring.

Unfortunately, for some people, the autumn never comes.

In life, a fraction of a second can ripple for eternity. He knew that he had lost balance, but he didn't have time to think about it. He was crashing to the ground. His head hit concrete first. Both of his shoulders broke instantly. His skull was cracked in three places. Lesser things would have killed any other man, but not him. He picked his broken body off the ground and began the longest walk of his life. When he arrived, he checked himself into the hospital.

No one could ever tell him that he wasn't tough. And no one could ever tell him that he wasn't determined.

On August 31st, two days later, the man was pronounced dead in the same hospital.

David Angle was 55 years old, and he couldn't take his pride with him.

Twenty-four hours later, his son Kurt wasn't listening to those who were telling him not to play in the varsity football game that afternoon. Kurt thrived to overcome all things, even his father's death. Sixteen solo tackles, two touchdowns and one interception later, Kurt walked off the field after the best football game that he would ever play, feeling proud.

Little did Kurt know that he would some day be carrying his own broken body to the hospital, and positioning himself to follow in his father's footsteps of living proud, and regretfully probably dying young.

"I just wanted to talk a little bit about him, and what he meant to me. When he was on, he was the best wrestler in the business. He may have even been the best ever. He showed me a lot of things, and said a lot of things that not only helped me professionally, but personally. He cared about everybody, he loved everybody. I love you, and I'll miss you".

Kurt Angle made these comments, fighting back tears, in the wake of Eddie Guerrero's tragic death. Sadly, these comments aren't that different than those that could made about Angle himself one emotional Monday evening if he doesn't make make a drastic change immediately.

Less than eight hours after Vince McMahon and Chavo Guerrero addressed the media at a press conference in Minneapolis in regards to Guerrero's death, a broken down Kurt Angle landed on his head after taking one of the most dangerous offensive maneuvers of his career from the top rope. Like his father, Angle is tough, determined and proud. Like his former mentor and fellow Olympic medallist David Schultz, Angle is tough, determined and proud. At 36 years old, there is a good chance Kurt Angle can outlive his mentor Schultz, who was murdered in 1996 at the age of 37. At the rate Kurt Angle is going, outliving his father may be his toughest battle to date.

His checklist reads like an almanac of worst case scenarios. Nerve damage to his face. Six knee surgeries. A broken neck. Torn muscles. Bone chips removed from his upper spine. Destroyed ligaments. Dislocated shoulders. Several years ago, Angle said to the press with pride, "Look at my face. It looks like I have aged fifteen years in the last five." Angle can no longer hear out of his left ear. It has been drained 80 times.

When training for the Olympics, Kurt Angle pushed his body to the point of insanity. "I'd train so ferociously some days that I would make myself sick". That training makes getting out of bed today even difficult according to Angle, as he broke his body down at a very young age.

Five months before the 1996 Olympics, Kurt Angle cracked two vertebrae and pulled four muscles in his back, causing two herniated discs to stab into his spinal cord. The pain was intense. Doctors told him that he risked paralysis competing, but Kurt was proud. Mepivacaine was the painkiller that Kurt Angle chose, and for the next half of a year he took it constantly to make training, and eventually winning a gold medal possible. Hunched over in tears, Angle had defied paralysis and proved himself as the best amateur wrestler in the world. He wished his father would have been there to see it.

Nine years later, Kurt was in his fourth as a WWE wrestler. In an eerily similar scenario, Kurt Angle's neck was destroyed in early 2003, and he was advised not to compete in the main event of Wrestlemania 19. Maybe it was the backflip that he attempted from the top of a steel cage, fifteen feet in the air on January 14th of that year. It was a move that could end a career if the slightest thing went wrong, but in the all-or-nothing fashion typical to Angle, he went big. The result was the most graceful moonsault imaginable, and as Kurt hung upside down in the air high above the arena, time seemed to stand still for just an instant before his knees hit the mat in a landing that could not have been any more perfect. Angle had wagered his body for glory, and come out on top yet again.

But how long could he keep getting lucky? He was willing to roll the dice one more time at Wrestlemania of that year, deciding to step into the ring and face Brock Lesnar in a match that would solidify his legacy, or paralyze him for life. Angle not only stared down death, but taunted it, taking dangerous drops on his neck and shoulders before passing the World Championship to Brock Lesnar. The 54,097 fans in attendance roared in approval of Kurt flying around the ring. Kurt's wife Karen and newborn daughter Kyra probably had different reactions.

For 240 days a year, Kurt Angle wakes up in a bed that doesn't belong to him. In hotel rooms all over America, Canada, Japan and Europe. His Coraopolis, Pennsylvania home, his BMW and his family are things he seldom has the time to see. Several years ago he stated in an interview that the only way he could continue to wrestle was through the heavy use of painkillers. In 2005, Kurt Angle is going harder than ever.

In an interview with Kurt Angle and his wife Karen several years ago, Angle stated that the only time he ever physically felt 100% was right before a match when his adrenaline took over. Kurt continued "But after that, I'm right back down to the bottom again. It sucks, because if I want to play with Kyra... (Kurt looks to his daughter playing in the next room)...sometimes I just can't do it".

Karen Angle spoke: "If he gets to the point where he really can't play with her, that will be it. No matter what you have in your house, no matter how good your life is, you can't give that up. If that's what happens, that's when I'll put my foot down and make him stop."

At that moment, Kurt Angle smiled, "I'll never stop" he finished.

Kurt Angle's marriage ended several months ago, devastating him personally. He is a proud man, and wrestling is something that he is dedicated to, and excellence is his obsession. Tired of wondering if he would be in a wheelchair in a few years, as Karen Angle has publicly wondered, she opted to separate from Kurt over the summer, and their marriage never made it to the autumn.

Kurt Angle has made it clear in the past that he will settle for nothing less than being remembered as the best of all time. But is that distinction worth his life? To Kurt, a proud man like his father, it might very well be.

Kurt's physical changes over the past half-decade are shocking. His head has increased in size dramatically, which may or may not point to use of Human Growth Hormone. Angle has suffered concussions, and has major nerve damage as a result of his neck problems. His triceps appear to be on the verge of atrophy, and one of Angle's biceps is noticeably larger than the other. Kurt Angle has a history of heart disease in his family. He has a glassy look in his eyes, and is a self-admitted user of painkillers. And he shows no signs of slowing down. As a training partner once said of Kurt Angle, "He doesn't have an off switch".

Estranged from his family, Kurt Angle is said to be more focused on being the best in wrestling than he ever has been. But how many times can Kurt Angle keep rolling the dice before his luck runs out? I don't know if World Wrestling Entertainment can continue to allow him to try.

Kurt Angle doesn't need wrestling. He has made millions and has nothing left to prove, at least not to his fans. He could stay another few years, maybe end up with permanent damage to 10% of his brain like his idol Bret Hart. Or he could move on with is life, make a new career out of motivational speaking, acting. Maybe amatuer wrestling seminars.

Kurt Angle has proven in the past that pride is more important to him than anything however. It has cost him his health, it has cost him his family, and at the rate he is going, sooner rather than later, he too may find himself dragging his dying body to the hospital when doctors can no longer help, and his pride may cost him his life. Sadly, it may already have. And Kurt won't be able to take his pride with him either.

The person most qualified to speak, Kurt's long time wife Karen, spoke best when she said, "I don't think what he's doing to himself is worth it".

Neither do I.
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[quote name='Mono`']speaking of Guerrero what ever happend to his man mistress Chyna?[/QUOTE]

She does really crappy TV movies and TV show appearances now.
 
I knew Kurt had been through a lot, but damn.

Personally I don't know if it is just because he is still in the ring, but right now I would probably put him at the top of my all-time list just because I like him so much. I do hope he does make the smart decision and retire soon because I don't want to see him end up like Ali (broken down after he retires).
 
After reading that I don't see how he couldn't be the wrestler that's alluded to in the death watch rumor. That article, in my eyes, puts him way ahead of Flair for possibly dying sometime soon. I know this sounds morbid but it's the truth of the matter. I hope, very soon, Kurt has that moment of clarity and realizes that it's just not worth it. I'll greatly miss him if he retires, since I consider him the greatest of all time, but it's better for his little girl to have a somewhat broken daddy than no daddy at all.
 
I really hope he doesn't take the "You Suck" chants to heart. He's absolutely one of, if not the best in the business right now. I don't want to see him go. He's one of the few I actually enjoy watching.

I used to consider Bret to be the best, but Angle's taken over that spot, I think. Especially after seeing Bret's "Byte This" interview where he acted like a huge dick. I really hope nothing happens to him.
 
Just got my monitor replaced and read through the topic. I haven't watched SD or Impact yet, or bought the Bret DVD. I just wanted to let everyone know that I setmy PS2 up for online, and my name on Smackdown vs. Raw is MattYoung.
 
Just now getting around to watching SmackDown.. very emotional finish for the Chavo match. He should continue to mimmick Eddie's mannerisms, he did a good job with it, especially the "shhh!" bit.. great match.
 
[quote name='Scorch']Just now getting around to watching SmackDown.. very emotional finish for the Chavo match. He should continue to mimmick Eddie's mannerisms, he did a good job with it, especially the "shhh!" bit.. great match.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Chavo did a good job and it was a very emotional finish.

However, I really don't know if copying Eddie's mannerisms and such would be the best idea. I definitely want Chavo to have a good, big push... but I'm not sure if copying Eddie would be the best thing. Chavo really needs to be his own person, though. There was only one Eddie, and there is only one Chavo Jr.

Boy am I glad to see that Chavo Jr. is keeping the Guerrero name alive in the WWE! :D

Once PWT clears up their tracker troubles, I need to download this SmackDown!
 
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