Left 4 Dead - Gen. Discussion & Info

Building a Better Apocalypse

March 25, 2009 - Chet Faliszek


We recently updated the PC version of Left 4 Dead with some exploit fixes and Versus balancing. We are going to be releasing another small update later today that contains some server issue fixes and one small, but very large, gameplay adjustment. We have made a change to the melee mechanic in Versus and the soon-to-be-released Survival Mode.

Xbox 360 users will see these same gameplay changes in an update coming out with the DLC — which, in case you missed the announcement, will be coming out April 21st.

As we continue to work on Left 4 Dead, our plan is to release more frequently on the PC, and then group those updates for the 360.

With the upcoming release of the SDK, and the community servers already available on the PC, matchmaking is one place where the two platforms will diverge. A future blog post will detail our roadmap for PC matchmaking.

Game statistics help us evaluate the success of the changes we've made to the game. In Versus, for example, we flipped the order in which teams play the next round based on who was winning the round before it. We were confident this would help to better balance the game and give neither team a lasting advantage. That would, in turn, translate into more people playing through the final maps. Since making that change, we've noticed the percentage of games being played to the end jump 5%. It is a small increase, but a step in the right direction.

But statistics are only part of the picture. We also use direct feedback from players themselves. One of the questions people ask is if we read the forums: the answer is yes. So please post your feedback on the melee and other changes as we make them. We promise to keep listening to your feedback, making changes and improving the gameplay experience of Left 4 Dead. Remember: If you don't see an issue addressed with this update, that doesn't mean it isn't coming.
So no updates that the PC receieved recently until the DLC. :(

I'm just glad they're making an extra effort to make this game as good as possible and listening to the consumer is awesome.
 
Hey I played L4D with a couple of CAG members and had a blast. I would like to add more people from here so we can have some great versus matches! Please add my gamertag: biggaveli285
 
my roommate and i both are playing l4d on my 360 with microphones...but yet it doesn't show up

is it possible for both of us to use our mics on the same console????
 
[quote name='strongpimphand']my roommate and i both are playing l4d on my 360 with microphones...but yet it doesn't show up

is it possible for both of us to use our mics on the same console????[/QUOTE]

As long as you aren't a guest yes. Have him log in using a XBL gamertag and you should be fine.
 
for some reason it just wasn't working and we were both logged on as our own tags
 
Started playing l4d last night so I requested brother and joel. Feel free to send an request my way, I need to get more CAGs on my friend's list anyway.
 
[quote name='wwfward']When are they adding new campaigns? I want a mall stage ...[/quote]
Play Dead Rising until then. :lol:

Seriously though, good to see the update's coming up soon. Definitely glad Microsoft stopped being tight assed about the download content costs.
 
I am so pissed. After running through numerous problems finishing one expert stage, I get to stage 5 and bam, kicked out so I can download an update.

I am the furious.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']What update?[/QUOTE]


Probably this one:
[quote name='L4D Site']April 1, 2009 - Zoid Kirsch


In a recent update for L4D on the PC, we provided the option for players to choose between starting a game on an Official server or the Best Available. This is just the first step in giving players control over what servers they play on and the type of experience they have.

This is part of the L4D SDK rollout, which is currently in a closed beta and will be released shortly after the launch of the L4D Survival Pack.

To support the SDK, we are extending the matchmaking system to allow for third party campaigns. We will be adding extra features so players will be able to find dedicated servers running the campaigns they have installed. They will also be able to see friends playing third party campaigns, and be directed to download them as necessary. Another major feature we are planning to add to the matchmaking system at a future date is team-based Versus matching. This will allow two teams of four to locate each other and compete in a Versus match.

We are also revamping our player matching based on skill level. Currently the system tries to match people with the same skill level and best pings together. We will be revisiting this system to tweak it based on data we have collected.

For next week's blog post, we are going to look at the process of creating the box art. [/quote]
 
[quote name='xycury']Probably this one:[/quote]

I'm pretty sure the 360 will not be seeing any updates until the DLC release date as it's already been stated.

Building a Better Apocalypse

March 25, 2009 - Chet Faliszek


We recently updated the PC version of Left 4 Dead with some exploit fixes and Versus balancing. We are going to be releasing another small update later today that contains some server issue fixes and one small, but very large, gameplay adjustment. We have made a change to the melee mechanic in Versus and the soon-to-be-released Survival Mode.

Xbox 360 users will see these same gameplay changes in an update coming out with the DLC — which, in case you missed the announcement, will be coming out April 21st.

As we continue to work on Left 4 Dead, our plan is to release more frequently on the PC, and then group those updates for the 360.

With the upcoming release of the SDK, and the community servers already available on the PC, matchmaking is one place where the two platforms will diverge. A future blog post will detail our roadmap for PC matchmaking.

Game statistics help us evaluate the success of the changes we've made to the game. In Versus, for example, we flipped the order in which teams play the next round based on who was winning the round before it. We were confident this would help to better balance the game and give neither team a lasting advantage. That would, in turn, translate into more people playing through the final maps. Since making that change, we've noticed the percentage of games being played to the end jump 5%. It is a small increase, but a step in the right direction.

But statistics are only part of the picture. We also use direct feedback from players themselves. One of the questions people ask is if we read the forums: the answer is yes. So please post your feedback on the melee and other changes as we make them. We promise to keep listening to your feedback, making changes and improving the gameplay experience of Left 4 Dead. Remember: If you don't see an issue addressed with this update, that doesn't mean it isn't coming.


He was probably off-line, went on-line and was forced to download an old update.
 
I don't know, it happened to the three other people in my party too-- except it happened at seperate times. Every ten minutes one of us got booted off to download that damn update.

No one else got that?
 
[quote name='cmart05']I'm pretty sure the 360 will not be seeing any updates until the DLC release date as it's already been stated.[/QUOTE]

I assumed this was PC... keep forgeting there are 360 owners.

Shame to play and not update first...
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I am so pissed. After running through numerous problems finishing one expert stage, I get to stage 5 and bam, kicked out so I can download an update.

I am the furious.[/QUOTE]


http://majornelson.com/archive/2009...update-now-available-no-new-features-4-2.aspx

this might be what happened, sucks if it was.

I know how expert can be, to get to stage 5 and have that happen sucks. Anyone wants to play some games add my gt always down to play this game. Only about 18k dead left to kill for the achievement
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I don't know, it happened to the three other people in my party too-- except it happened at seperate times. Every ten minutes one of us got booted off to download that damn update.

No one else got that?[/quote]


oh you probably got the mandatory Xbox Live Update that was put out... nothing to do with L4D. LOL that sucks.
 
Surviving the L4D Survival Pack

April 16, 2009 - Kerry Davis and Scott Dalton


Survival Mode pits your team against never ending waves of infected. Sounds simple. Just trap the survivors in a small part of a map, unleash the hordes, and record the longest time. Survival Mode, which will be released next week, is actually a bit more than that.

Our goals for Survival Mode are to deliver a mode of play distinct from Campaign or Versus, have games that regularly last under ten minutes, and emphasize competition with team play through leaderboards.

Survival Mode draws on the planning and communication aspects of a successful Finale or Crescendo event, while taking it to another level. It rapidly hits a fever pitch that only a well coordinated team will be able to successfully survive. Everything from simply covering a reviving teammate, to making every shot count to minimize reloads becomes crucial in Survival Mode.

Given the importance of pacing in Survival Mode, we need to define as precisely as possible how the difficulty ramps up during the course of a round. We have numerous variables to work with: mob spawn frequency, special infected spawn frequency, number of each type of special infected, total number of special infected, tank spawn frequency, total number of tanks, and so on. We need all of these variables to work together to create a fairly smooth difficulty curve.

If the curve ramps up too sharply, we find that teams of all skill levels tend to hit a wall at the same time. There isn't enough variation in the times to separate great teams from average ones. If the curve is too flat, then average teams will have a good experience, but really good teams can grind on long enough to cross the line from having fun to just getting worn out.

It might seem that just gradually increasing spawn rates and numbers of infected will create a nice smooth curve, but it turns out to be much trickier than that. Each type of infected has its own spawn schedule, so even though the individual spawn curves may be designed to be fairly easy at a particular point in time, sometimes they overlap in just such a way that the players find themselves in a really bad situation far earlier than we intend.

For example, a tank will be much harder to fight if a mob of common infected spawns at the same time - and nearly impossible if three hunters also show up right at that moment. A similar situation can happen due to variables outside our control - a team may not dispatch a tank or mob quickly enough, causing subsequent waves to start arriving and piling on to an already difficult battle. It's also hard to anticipate when teams will need to make an ammo run or heal up, both of which can be extremely difficult only a few minutes into the round. In order to help visualize these overlap points and the collapse of each spawn curve, we graphed out the wave behavior of infected over the course of a survival round.



The last variable we added was the "lull" - a short interval of time during which nothing new will spawn. Each lull gets slightly longer as the round progresses, but that's no guarantee the team will actually see the lull - it just prevents new infected from spawning. It doesn't help with infected that are already in the arena. Killing mobs and tanks as quickly as possible is the best way to ensure that a team can take advantage of a lull to heal, resupply ammo, or just move to a better location with more supplies.

Given the extreme pace of Survival Mode, the number of zombies killed in a single round often outnumbers an entire campaign. Even optimizing towards using pistols to eliminate common hordes, ammunition usually becomes an issue at some point. As ammo piles provide a unique infinite resupply for players, they tend to be in relatively less defensible positions in the Survival arenas. This means making an all important ammo run is rarely a safe proposition and requires good teamwork and planning. Timing your resources correctly to be able to make a run when necessary can make or break a team. The perfect pipebomb or well placed molotov can mean the difference between a cakewalk and catastrophe.

The Hospital Elevator, for example, might seem like an easy Crescendo Event to conquer. Hit the elevator button and holdout until the doors open for a quick escape. In Survival Mode, however, the area begins locked down. Areas open as the hordes come in, breaking down the doors to reach the survivors. In each room there are additional caches of vital pills, pipes, and Molotovs. By moving from location to location, using up the plentiful supplies as needed, a team can maximize their time in a game where the elevator never arrives to offer escape. In other maps, items may be less plentiful and require careful planning on their usage. Managing one's inventory and resources works hand-in-hand with teamwork in Survival Mode.

Next week you will be able to see our design in action when the DLC is released for the PC and 360.

yeeeeee.
 
nice. Is there anyone here that can help me and a friend get threw expert? Ever game I join or ever game that random people join of mine they never want to work as a team or they always quit after they kill everyone else.
 
If anybody is boosting for the Left 4 Dead achievement please let me know I'd like to join. Also need to do Nothing Special.

Also if anybody wants to know the best way to survive any of the finales on expert I can explain :)
 
This is going to be AWESOME!!! :D :D :D

I am totally hyped about the new DLC ... and have to maps on expert I need to finish myself! :eek:

Thank goodness they finally added in something to get more zombie kills. I love this game and play it quite a bit but am still just around 15000?! zombie kills. Hopefully they'll have mounted machine guns?! to work on that as well! :D
 
[/Shining L4D Squad Spotlight Which Is A Red No Icon With A Tank Silhouette In The Middle]

ATTN CMART & IVANHOOD: Can I count you guys to help a brother out next Tuesday?

Let me know because it has been quite a while since I've touched this game and we've still got a score to settle with Nothing Special, C.
 
[quote name='Ink.So.Well.'][/Shining L4D Squad Spotlight Which Is A Red No Icon With A Tank Silhouette In The Middle]

ATTN CMART & IVANHOOD: Can I count you guys to help a brother out next Tuesday?

Let me know because it has been quite a while since I've touched this game and we've still got a score to settle with Nothing Special, C.[/quote]


HAHA well if you get your ass off of GoW!!!
 
[quote name='Shan82']This is going to be AWESOME!!! :D :D :D

I am totally hyped about the new DLC ... and have to maps on expert I need to finish myself! :eek:

Thank goodness they finally added in something to get more zombie kills. I love this game and play it quite a bit but am still just around 15000?! zombie kills. Hopefully they'll have mounted machine guns?! to work on that as well! :D
[/quote]

No running ahead for the two of us in this mode ;)
 
[quote name='cmart05']HAHA well if you get your ass off of GoW!!![/quote]

I resent such hateful and otherwise trivial statements. ;(

...

Besides I've recently discovered the joy that is Guitar Hero and I'm on that more now so hmph. :nottalking:

But yeah, I promise to haul my ass off GoW2 to get in some quality time with my L4D squad. I miss you guys and the unforgiving mistress that is the dreaded AI Director. ;'(
 
I'm still looking to knock out Blood Harvest on expert. I have made it to the finale multiple times but the randoms I play with always end up quitting or going loan ranger. It's the last campaign I need to complete on expert but I'm willing to help you with whatever if you help me out.

XBL: CheeseSndwch
 
I haven't done any Campaign on Expert :( but luckily this free stuff is coming out next week so I'll be able to play again some then. For right now though, only 300 rounds until I hit 1999 in Gears 2. Such a horrible achievement.
 
[quote name='Kevlar281']I'm still looking to knock out Blood Harvest on expert. I have made it to the finale multiple times but the randoms I play with always end up quitting or going loan ranger. It's the last campaign I need to complete on expert but I'm willing to help you with whatever if you help me out.

XBL: CheeseSndwch[/quote]

if youre on tonight ill help you out
 
[quote name='Kevlar281']I'm still looking to knock out Blood Harvest on expert. I have made it to the finale multiple times but the randoms I play with always end up quitting or going loan ranger. It's the last campaign I need to complete on expert but I'm willing to help you with whatever if you help me out.

XBL: CheeseSndwch[/QUOTE]

Best way to survive that finale is go upstairs and in the room that has pills spawning on nightstands, pack your whole squad in the closet (obviously 2 in front melee and 2 standing over top shooting), as soon as the tank spawns walk to the outside of the house on the upper level and have 2 people sit in the corner and 2 people go out on the super thin ledge (make sure they're on the side of the window by the closet you were in--on the other side the tank can still get you). Basically the tank will walk up right underneth you and you need to go back to where the 2 other guys are watching your back and the tank will get stuck on the ledge (specifically stuck in the window) and you can just blast away at him.
 
[quote name='Ink.So.Well.'][/Shining L4D Squad Spotlight Which Is A Red No Icon With A Tank Silhouette In The Middle]

ATTN CMART & IVANHOOD: Can I count you guys to help a brother out next Tuesday?

Let me know because it has been quite a while since I've touched this game and we've still got a score to settle with Nothing Special, C.[/quote]

I have exams through the end of April, so I won't be on XBL much. As soon as those are over, though, I can't wait to start playing this game again. Only have two achievements left, I think, Lamb 2 Slaughter and Zombie Genocidest.

Edit: Also, if anyone else wants to play expert campaigns or versus, shoot me a friend request. But like I said, I won't really be on until the first week of May.
 
Finally beat Blood Harvest on Expert! I showed my team how to set up in the barn. The director was merciful and gave us a lot of Molotov cocktails. I saved a pipe bomb for the run to the APC.

I was the only one who made it. :cry:

But beating it got me the “What Are You Trying To Prove?” achievement.:whee:
 
G4TV » The Feed » 'Left 4 Dead' Survival Mode/DLC Preview »
News From The Feed







'Left 4 Dead' Survival Mode/DLC Preview

Posted by Abbie Heppe - Friday, April 17, 2009 7:25 PM

Can it, whiners! Easily the most common complaint leveraged against Left 4 Dead was that it had too little content and on April 21st players are getting a FREE download with plenty more zombie shooting action. Did I mention it’s free? Xbox 360 users hardly get anything for that price, except refurbished red-ringed consoles. The DLC adds three significant changes to the game, the melee fatigue already introduced on the PC, the inclusion of Dead Air and Death Toll in versus mode, and the addition of Survival Mode with 16 maps, 15 borrowed and one new.

Nasty, Brutish and Short


Survival mode takes all of the areas, 15 in all, from the original Left 4 Dead maps where you call the horde, like at the elevator in No Mercy and at the crane in Dead Air. There’s also the brand new lighthouse themed, “The Last Stand” with the apt tagline “it doesn’t end well”, because, despite being the level loaded with pills, explosives, ammo and health…well, good luck lasting long enough to use any of them. There’s no rescue in sight for Survival mode, just a never-ending flow of zombies and the crushing feeling of impending doom (or a tank beating you into the pavement). Apparently, the team at Valve hasn’t surpassed the 10 minute mark, and our fairly skilled crew topped out at a little over four minutes in Death Toll’s drains, earning a bronze and falling nearly three minutes short of a silver ranking. For comparison, my first lighthouse run relying solely on AI lasted a whopping two minutes and forty-one seconds. That’s longer than some of my attempts with human players, but don’t expect to set any records with the AI in tow.​


Now, to illustrate the infinite zombie spawning, Valve put together this chart:
Left-4-Dead-Survival-ModeDLC.jpg
As you can see, before you even hit the 4 minute cut-off for the bronze rank, you’ll have taken on 3 tanks, numerous special infected and about 5 waves of horde. Every reload, decision to heal and the timing of using explosives affects the outcome of your attempt, and the combination of skill and cooperation makes this mode far more complex than just fending off never-ending waves of zombies. I’ve always felt the brilliance of L4D is how it takes a very simple concept and slowly reveals complex layers of depth to the player. There seems to be a limitless variety in strategies you can employ to survive and with rounds lasting under 7 minutes or so, factoring in time to set up before you call the horde, this is a fast-paced “quick fix” of L4D compared to the versus and campaign modes. It’ll also put you on the fast track to that pesky Zombie Genocidist achievement. Good luck, and leave your friends who cower away from advanced or expert difficulties behind.

Melee Takes a Hit

One common strategy that won’t save you anymore is backing all the survivors up into a corner and spamming melee to thwart the Horde and special infected. It used to be pretty simple to avoid all damage by employing this strategy, it repels snaking tongues, ambitious Hunters and countless zombies with minimal effort. With the addition of “melee fatigue”, you’ll have to wait until your melee “reloads” to continue deflecting zombies. Applicable in both survival and versus mode, the tweak to melee takes some adjustment as a survivor, but it sure makes Boomers and Hunters happy and balances the game nicely. Do I miss melee spam? Ok…a little, but if WiiSports boxing taught me anything, it’s that most people can’t continuously punch things for very long without getting tired.

Versus, Now With Three Maps No One Will Play

Please forgive the tongue-in-cheek, but if you play as much as I do, you’re probably just as sick of the No Mercy favoritism in Versus mode as I am. This is why I’m especially excited to see Death Toll and Dead Air join the circuit. The large open spaces in these levels obviously provided a challenge to adapt for Versus, but the balance is executed well and this was ultimately worth the wait. I’d elaborate more, but this addition speaks for itself, Dead Air is a personal favorite but both “new” maps provide welcome variety to the versus multiplayer.


Last Words

With the inclusion of Dead Air and Death Toll in versus, there’s something here for players of all skill levels and welcome content for those getting tired of playing the same maps over and over. Survival caters to the upper echelon of players and offers so many map choices and such a challenge that you’re unlikely to tire of it quickly. And again, with the whole update being free, there’s virtually nothing to complain to about. Again, Valve proves how reliable they are in supporting their games after launch with more than just fixes, Tuesday can’t come soon enough.
Left 4 Dead Survival Mode/DLC
Platforms: PC/360
Played on: 360
Release date: 4/21/09
 
[quote name='Kevlar281']Finally beat Blood Harvest on Expert! I showed my team how to set up in the barn. The director was merciful and gave us a lot of Molotov cocktails. I saved a pipe bomb for the run to the APC.

I was the only one who made it. :cry:

But beating it got me the “What Are You Trying To Prove?” achievement.:whee:[/quote]


ha yea cause my friend missed with his molotov, i took one for the team!

O and there is always one crazy guy who doesn't like hanging around with the team in every game who dies first, very true in our game.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
going to play tonite...hopefully get the expert levels done before the update (no melee spam :cry:)
anyone wanna help me out?
tried yesterday...no dice
 
[quote name='davyd']The stamina meter is a versus change only. You can still melee spam your heart's content in campaign.[/quote]

versus and survivor mode.
 
Soooo...anyone know where to find the update?

I'm still not sure if its a patch or something you DL on the marketplace.

I just updated my game with a patch, but no go for new content.
 
It's in the download section of L4D on the dashboard. But as of the moment there's nothing it's done after the 2 minute download.

Maybe it's waiting for another update?
 
bread's done
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