General Fighting Game Thread #48 Turbo - !quote 16 ^_^

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Had they not of released Garou and KoF98UM on xbox live, then I may of bought it at retail. Now it has no chance until a price drop or deal.
 
[quote name='Jimbo Slice']I loveeeee TSS as well. One of my fav. games.

I used to play Magical Drop too, but I got sick of Strength. Fun Fact: I once got my ass kicked by Justin Wong at a Magical Drop tournament. Dude is sick.[/QUOTE]lol yeah... I'll never forget my first time at an ECC. You had all the intense tourney action on Saturday night, but on Sunday morning they started doing low-tier casuals in MvC 2. Crowd went nuts every time SonSon did that watermelon super. And after MvC2, they fired up Magical Drop 2 on a modded Xbox and Justin Wong dominated everybody. :D
 
oh man, magical drop 3, that brings back memories. like aladdin's castle in torrance memories.

i'm just curious since i been playing tetris recently and it seems like all the competitive games are fighters/rts/fps, i wonder if there's anything to add to that.

i don't like racing because it's half car, half driver skill. and it's a simulation of real life, which makes me just want to stay in real life.

and i don't like rhythm games competitively because it's like golf; the actions of one do not really influence the actions of the other

...just looking for more tournament-style games to throw in AX next year. like bomberman or something.
 
[quote name='kainzero']oh man, magical drop 3, that brings back memories. like aladdin's castle in torrance memories.

i'm just curious since i been playing tetris recently and it seems like all the competitive games are fighters/rts/fps, i wonder if there's anything to add to that.

i don't like racing because it's half car, half driver skill. and it's a simulation of real life, which makes me just want to stay in real life.

and i don't like rhythm games competitively because it's like golf; the actions of one do not really influence the actions of the other

...just looking for more tournament-style games to throw in AX next year. like bomberman or something.[/QUOTE]

Twinkle Star Sprites would be great.

But a Bomberman is fine too.
 
My crew was addicted to Puzzle Fighter back in the day, then PF HDR came out and we all got addicted to it again.

Also, Pokemon Puzzle League had us all addicted too. We just played 2D mode so it was just like Tetris Attack.
 
[quote name='kainzero']I'm curious. Are there any non-competitive games besides fighters/FPS/RTS that you guys play?[/QUOTE]

This may come as a surprise to you, but ages ago I was the best US Saturn Bomberman player, and one of the top 2 Bomberman Act Zero players. Only two things keep me from staying at the top of the Bomberman Live scene: college, and I want to play other games too, but college keeps me too busy to devote much time to anything.

[quote name='distgfx']Had they not of released Garou and KoF98UM on xbox live, then I may of bought it at retail. Now it has no chance until a price drop or deal.[/QUOTE]

Same here! Sure KOF12 is prettier, but I'm not even close to done with Garou and KOF98UM yet.
 
Battle Fantasia is not that bad of a game. Seriously. Low amounts of copies were available for the 360 so I'm glad It's getting a PSN release (and I hope they price it at $30 or less as a digital download).

KOF officialy out 28th. Is it really broken? The only thing that bothers me is it has a whopping 20 characters, which is kinda low imho for a KOF game even though the graphics are awesome.

Man, so many fighting games I bought this year and I suck at everyone of them (well except SFIV) I am just horrible at BlazBlue. So theres only Tekken left... and I need money to buy it by XMas.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']Battle Fantasia is not that bad of a game. Seriously. Low amounts of copies were available for the 360 so I'm glad It's getting a PSN release (and I hope they price it at $30 or less as a digital download).

KOF officialy out 28th. Is it really broken? The only thing that bothers me is it has a whopping 20 characters, which is kinda low imho for a KOF game even though the graphics are awesome.

Man, so many fighting games I bought this year and I suck at everyone of them (well except SFIV) I am just horrible at BlazBlue. So theres only Tekken left... and I need money to buy it by XMas.[/QUOTE]

c20081129_01_kof12_07_cs1w1_290x.jpg


Critical Counters man - haven't experienced it myself, but I hear it hurts the game badly.
 
Critical Counters are an interesting addition to the game. No more broken than say, a custom combo (V-ISM Karen, anyone?)

I'm not a KoF fanboy or anything, but I'm probably one of the few people here that have actually played the game, and I hate to see it getting bashed in the public eye. I really have no stake in whether you buy it or not, but please give it a try before making up your mind about it.

"Broken" is such a subjective term anyway.... what would MvC2 be without brokenness? Alpha 3? XvSF? Other KoF games? Even to an extent, CvS2....

Just give the game a try. I remember when everyone was creaming their pants over footage of the game, and now everyone is going to pass on the game? Seems nuts.

Look forward to playing those of you that do get it online.

The-King-Of-Fighters-XII.jpg
 
I already pre-ordered KOF and I'm getting it for $32 after my Amazon rewards and their $3 discount. I'm pretty much buying all 360 fighters this year and scrapping nickles and dimes off the side walk in order to buy Tekken.

Only 360 fighting game I missed over the last year was MK vs DC but thats only because my Target never reached $15 on the clearance rack when we had copies. I'll be picking that up real, real, real cheap.
 
[quote name='Jimbo Slice']Look forward to playing those of you that do get it online.

The-King-Of-Fighters-XII.jpg
[/QUOTE]

I plan to rent it near the day it comes out. I don't plan to wait to play it, even if I'm not buying it. What system you gonna be on? PSTripple here.
 
[quote name='Jimbo Slice']Critical Counters are an interesting addition to the game. No more broken than say, a custom combo (V-ISM Karen, anyone?)

I'm not a KoF fanboy or anything, but I'm probably one of the few people here that have actually played the game, and I hate to see it getting bashed in the public eye. I really have no stake in whether you buy it or not, but please give it a try before making up your mind about it.

"Broken" is such a subjective term anyway.... what would MvC2 be without brokenness? Alpha 3? XvSF? Other KoF games? Even to an extent, CvS2....

Just give the game a try. I remember when everyone was creaming their pants over footage of the game, and now everyone is going to pass on the game? Seems nuts.

Look forward to playing those of you that do get it online.

The-King-Of-Fighters-XII.jpg
[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I'll be there day 1.
 
Im getting KOF12 but not till 2 weeks or so after it comes out. I have 0 hype for it and im sure it'll be cheaper on craigslist after 2 weeks from release when someone gets bored of it.
 
[quote name='Jimbo Slice']Critical Counters are an interesting addition to the game. No more broken than say, a custom combo (V-ISM Karen, anyone?)

I'm not a KoF fanboy or anything, but I'm probably one of the few people here that have actually played the game, and I hate to see it getting bashed in the public eye. I really have no stake in whether you buy it or not, but please give it a try before making up your mind about it.

"Broken" is such a subjective term anyway.... what would MvC2 be without brokenness? Alpha 3? XvSF? Other KoF games? Even to an extent, CvS2....[/QUOTE]


Agreed. I'm getting it for PS3.
 
I won't be getting KoF till it hits around $40. Not a huge KoF fan any more and really I still think MotW is the best yet and from what I have played better than this one as well. Though I have to ask, what is broken about Alpha 3?
 
Eh, guess we all have different views on broken. I don't see that as broken, because it is not a sure thing. Unlike say an air juggle. OP yes, broken, not to me.
 
I'm still not seeing how that is broken, because you can Alpha Counter that in all but x-ism. The whole point of v-ism was for custom combos. The only thing I see wrong is the air juggling which I already said is broken if any game has it. If there is a means to stop something I just don't see it as broken.
 
When I think of the term "broken" in the general sense, I just consider it to mean "accidentally overpowered." What constitutes "overpowered" is almost always up for debate, other than obvious cases like infinites. Although if an infinite is hard enough to perform, it can be less "broken" than a lower-damaging combo that is very easy to execute and exploit, IMO.
 
(Yes, prepare for a KoF/BB study, lol. I've seen so much anti-KoF in this thread, that I think it's perfectly fair, though! It's not just fanboy ranting, I promise!)

I've never heard one person who actually plays KoF XII call the CC system broken.

I've seen some pretty damaging ones, yes, but something I like about it (much like I like in Blazblue) is that it's not just a "LAWLZ, High tier character has high damage!" situation. Practical use of every character seems to be able to land a 50%+ damage CC with excellent execution and timing, in the right circumstances.

Just about every throw-involved combo in Blazblue does 50% damage, lol. (Slight exaggeration) Why would KoF's CC system, based off a single technique that you can only use after some time in a match, that is baitable, risky, and full of workable countermeasures, be more broken than BB?

Anywho, KoF has always been my main goal, BB was just a distraction/side-dish (even though it's a very well put together one at that.) I'll be getting XII day one, enjoying it's liveliness and style, and it's vastly better animation!

I keep looking at Blazblue, and wondering about some of the places they don't have animation, such as how counter blows don't even have billowing clothing or shaking knees (dude, Streets of Rage and Guilty Gear did that detail better!), or why the opponent is completly still when Tao does her "I'mma beat the crap outta you!" super. Or how my much loved Bang's "sentai-style rear explosion" victory stance looks quite low in frames. It might all be high res, and some animations look fantastic, such as all stance animations, and Tao's crawl and crouching 3C. But other parts look no better than, for example, HD remix.

On the gameplay side of things, I've always found XII much more interesting to watch than BB. More intensity! Also, things that HURT, are over pretty fast. Mid match combos are to the point. This, to me, makes the pacing much more interesting. Not to mention the Zoom on CC's also makes them feel more like supers, rather than just long combos. The sound effects, and the fact it has a beginning and ending, make it feel more like a chorus in song, a climatic situation, and exclimation point!

Getting combo'd in BB sometimes feels like you could just walk away for a bit... like getting in a 14 hit combo at any time by a good Litchi, or some of Tao's combos. The gattling combos are very slowly paced in BB too, input wise (though I hear XII feels slower than many KoFs), which actually lowers my hype JUST a bit while playing it.

Otherwise, PLAYING BB does excite me alot more than any gameplay vids of it ever did. Sometimes it feels like a chore, but more often than not, it's actually fun.

On the next topic of gameplay, for all those people I saw mention how epic BB feels in battle... I just can't 100% agree. BANG, easily, makes every battle epic. He IS the embodiment of Epic and Awesome. But the Astral finishes, while very nice looking, actually FEEL slightly thrown into the game.

After Bang's wonderful install super (Fu Rin Ka ZANNN!) having an AWESOME themesong, I would at least expect the music to either fade, or to have a shared "You're gonna die!" theme like Soul Calibur 4. But Astral's just... happen. Other than the nice animation, they sometimes feel less impressive than supers, because of this. (AND WHY DOES BANG CARRY A HUGE NAIL, only to use it for a finish he didn't even HAVE till console release? SUCH A WASTE! -ahem-)

And my last BB vs XII criticism... Characters and Balance.

BB's characters do feel vastly unique, and I love this about them. But there are 2 things that stand out to me that I dislike, also:

1. Because of this difference, not everyone feels accessable or even much fun to play, without deeply learning them, especially Carl. Because of this, I have much less fun playing multiple characters, than in most other games. While I don't think this'll make me tire of the game long term, I do think it makes it less fun to play for hours on end, because who wants to play characters that feel like utter trash in your hands, when in a 6 man lobby?

2. Characters balance feels off, at least for mid-level, casual play. Arukune has infinite curse/bug summon, yet Bang has limited nails? Why should 'kune have no summon limit? Jin has higher HP, quicker gauge refil, ability to freeze after combos, and lightning fast, generally safe moves? Some of the things that are gauged, while others are not, just feels kinda reasonless.

KoF might have a small cast at 22, for KoF, but everyone, even "lacking moves" Clark and Mature, look viable. While character have different ways of getting in and doing damage, and different ways to excel, they ALL look like they can excel. Noone looks fundamentally crappy, nor does anyone look insanely overpowered.

Every time I've seen something really powerful come out of XII, I've seen someone find something equally cool about the next character on the list. And every time I've seen someone say a character is poor or lacking, I've seen vids of players who play so good, that they make the formerly "weak" character, now look OverPowered to the casual observer.

But it all looks like legit stuff. Some corner combos, and some strong use of weak and strong specials, or counterhits. Nothing that looks like a glitch (Oh Carl, I'm talking about your loops!), or that you feel dirty for using, lol.

Don't get me wrong, I definately enjoy BB, but for the first few days of getting it, in between being stoked about how great it's "extras" were, I also kept hearing in the back of my head, while playing, "THIS?!?! THIS is what people kept saying felt SO much better than my KoF?!? These slow chains?!? This small cast of characters?!? And WHY does Jin feel so BROKEN!?!" XD

It just seemed so obvious that BB had some big negatives, too, but it was like everyone JUST focused on KoF's negatives, and BB's positives.

When it comes down to the gameplay, (From playing BB, and just seeing KoF, no arcade with it here!) I feel both games are equally worthy of being in fighting game fans collections. I personally perfer KoF, but I'm obviously bias at a personal level, lol. But after watching KoF XII matches since April, and watching and playing BB in the past 2 weeks, I just can't see how people who've played both VS good competetion, can act like BB is SO much better, on an objective level.

Anywho, this fight thread needed a bit more pro KoFness from a fan who has grown to like the retooled cast! I swear most KoF detractors simply dislike that one character or another are not there, or that this re-birth isn't at the same place as 15 years worth of mostly recycling old assets, lol.

Watching this game grow, from those first matches in Portland's AI, to were Japanese and even English (as in England) people have taken it now, has one of the coolest evolutions I've seen in the course of any fighter.

Reply to that Crouch Cancel Alpha 3 Video: Man am I glad that the play I had in Alpha 3 was never like that. To me, that's when games go from being fun and enjoyable, to just being robotic spamfest. It doesn't even LOOK fun anymore; it might be kinda funny, like watching SFII Rainbow Edition, but that sure doesn't make me wanna PLAY the game.
 
[quote name='LostRoad']I'm still not seeing how that is broken, because you can Alpha Counter that in all but x-ism. The whole point of v-ism was for custom combos. The only thing I see wrong is the air juggling which I already said is broken if any game has it. If there is a means to stop something I just don't see it as broken.[/QUOTE]
you can't alpha counter that.
v-ism activation = invincibility (frames dependent on how much meter you have)
99% of v-ism setups are guaranteed, like anti-air/whiff-punishing/going through fireballs. the others are predicted or unblockables like gouki.

the funny thing is that even with crouch cancelling the top tier of v-sakura, v-gouki, and v-zangief don't have cc infinites. but there are ridiculous things like unblockables and OTG grabs, and if you can still do some CC combos even if they're not infinites.
also for all the A3 practice i've done, i can't do any cc infinites save for ryu's 1p (and that's mostly in practice mode). it's hard as hell.

on brokenness:

i view "broken" as stuff that seems outside the scope of the design intent, often but not necessarily overpowered.
like i would view noel's 6C-BC cancel to be broken, but not overpowered
(but goddamn! i can't get the dash 6C consistently!)
 
[quote name='kainzero']on brokenness:

i view "broken" as stuff that seems outside the scope of the design intent, often but not necessarily overpowered.
like i would view noel's 6C-BC cancel to be broken, but not overpowered
(but goddamn! i can't get the dash 6C consistently!)[/QUOTE]Yeeeeah that is very well put. I think of the "design intent" as being a big part of it.

Like in the "broken but not overpowered" category, I'm thinking of something like Reptile's elbow dash move in UMK3. After a launcher, you can use the dash (b,f+LK) to run back and forth and repeatedly anti-air HP the guy. I doubt the developers had that in mind when they designed the move, but since the aforementioned combo takes a very high level of skill, any of the extra damage earned by it seems "fair."

Meanwhile, Kabal's spin move works exactly as intended but it's overpowered as hell!
 
[quote name='kainzero']you can't alpha counter that.
v-ism activation = invincibility (frames dependent on how much meter you have)
99% of v-ism setups are guaranteed, like anti-air/whiff-punishing/going through fireballs. the others are predicted or unblockables like gouki.
[/QUOTE]

Why would a alpha counter not work? When you use it it makes you invincible as well for the start up. From what I remember when a ac is used on toons under x-ism that can't be stoped it pushes you right though them nether player taking damage( Doing this on Bison is a prime example ). Why would this not work here? While v-ism would still be attive it still gives the oppessing player a chance to pull back and try to play keep away till it wears off. Does v-ism go though and negate ac I guess is my question, instead of the first hit of v-ism being canceled out?
 
[quote name='heavyd853']Can you do alpha counters in hitstun?[/QUOTE]
no it's not GG/BB burst
[quote name='LostRoad']Why would a alpha counter not work? When you use it it makes you invincible as well for the start up. From what I remember when a ac is used on toons under x-ism that can't be stoped it pushes you right though them nether player taking damage( Doing this on Bison is a prime example ). Why would this not work here? While v-ism would still be attive it still gives the oppessing player a chance to pull back and try to play keep away till it wears off. Does v-ism go though and negate ac I guess is my question, instead of the first hit of v-ism being canceled out?[/QUOTE]
an alpha counter won't work because people generally don't activate in non-guaranteed situations. and the invincibility is huge. also if you AC the first hit, the character only loses 50% VC meter, so you're still down in meter.

keep in mind with A3 that it was very difficult for most characters to hit confirm supers, so hitting with a VC is way easier in comparison.

someone jumps in, lp+lk on reaction is way easier and faster than qcfx2+K for shinryuken. then there's the OTG brokeness and the kattobi cancels...

it actually makes the first few seconds of a vism vs. vism match exciting, because counter-activation makes it that much harder to get the VC off.

so then as if VCs weren't easy enough to get opportunities, now you have infinites. not only are they infinites but you can delay the match and regain all your meter back.
 
Whats the real difference besides the lack of SFIV art? I'm honestly happy enough shelling out $150 + shipping that I spent on the TE months ago, but It's funny seeing them go now for $125 or less with free shipping. Dammit lol.
 
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