The only problem with switching out characters every season is that every season you have to start with people without feeling any connection to them. Then the second set or third set save the world and it feels like we are just going in circles with the original characters in different clothes. So either way you look at it your stuck with something you don't like.
I gotta disagree. I think it could have worked. The two problems are a) there are not very many viable examples to model off. The closest thing I can think of is apparently in Dr. Who the main character changes actors with regularity? and b) the audience fell in love with the first cast far more than anticipated.
Don't get me wrong there are sure to be many hassles with finding an entire cast every (or every other) season but I think it would have been very compelling as a show. I mean we connected with the season 1 cast we can connect with another cast. Maybe after 2-3 seasons we're connecting with the world instead of just a specific cast ala Star Trek. Plus there are probably benefits to not having to pay increased prices for a cast of characters you've become attached to etc. There are a lot of 'experiments' in US television like 24 (which is for unknown reasons insanely popular), and there's the quick burn shows like Harper's Island and Prison Break (though obviously they didn't stick to the one season plan in that case).
The key is that it wouldn't be about saving the world with EVERY season that would just get old and implausible fast. Most of what they've done would work except it woudln't be the same people. For instance they could have kept the old vs new generation storyline just with a different set of characters. Primatech is a big company bringing down the company could have gone with yet another cast with special appearance by Mr Bennet at the end of season. They could turn it less about showcasing power with one season and more about hiding them like Misfits or X-Men with say special appearance by Peter. I think we can all agree that X-Men is popular and Misfits should be. Maybe then we'd get more logical, unique or varied powers.
Well I can't say I wouldn't enjoy seeing different characters. Plus it would be nice for them to bring out some of the powers only seen in the graphic novels. Or even to increase sales they could take the next seasons characters in the graphic novel. That way fans could get to know them before the show starts to give a connection. I agree with the fact it would be cheaper to replace every season. I don't think they have any plans to change up anytime soon.
The reason the show failed is because you can only write evil guy tries to destroy the world in so many ways. They failed in season 2/3/4/5 because they went away from what made season 1 great: Watching people discover their powers and then the fights. Where the hell is the fighting? And then there a whole hell of a lot of people that do not accomplish anything show to show. How many times have we watched Peter cry about his brother or saving people? Or watched Samuel collect people? Or watched Parkman do nothing. There's to much nothing going on in the damn show.
And for a show that is supposed to be about super powered people, why do they show so little of the powers? Honestly how many relevant powers have been shown this season? Samuels, super speed, healing, time travel, super strength, ink lady, siren lady and occasional Sylar. Remember in season 1 when they were constantly using their powers to fight or do other things. Flying, speed, time, healing, telekinesis, lightning, mind control. Those powers were cool.
i completely forgot about the graphic novel. I fell off it around Vol 3 i think. Sometime after the Israeli chick died.
The graphic novel has the worst format I've ever seen. PDF is an annoying container for that purpose, and ads in the front of every issue were bothersome but really did the ad have to be so huge is breaks my auto-zoom so have to reset it everytime I open another issue
but yes the graphic novel would be perfect for that purpose. You could introduce the next cast (though that becomes problematic as you have to cast the actor before you draw them, but it could also serve to continue the stories from casts gone, but yes I conceed completely that there's no chance of this happening anymore. [quote name='slickkill77']And for a show that is supposed to be about super powered people, why do they show so little of the powers? Honestly how many relevant powers have been shown this season? Samuels, super speed, healing, time travel, super strength, ink lady, siren lady* and occasional Sylar. Remember in season 1 when they were constantly using their powers to fight or do other things. Flying, speed, time, healing, telekinesis, lightning, mind control. Those powers were cool.[/QUOTE]* first off I would question the relevance of these powers.
i think all of those problems would have been solved if they'd stuck to the cycling cast plan. after all everyone learns to control their power but if every season new people are starting over there would be much more cool power usage. Origin stories are so much fun that M. Night Shamalan cut out everything but discovery from his superhero movie and we ended up with Invincible.
which for the record I loved
Speaking of powers I for one am still stuck on people who DID fall off after one season like Micha, DL and Monica.
One of the big things I wish they'd get back to is the sense of Mystery the first season had. There were a good many characters who'd pop up, we'd get the feeling they had a power, but never actually know what their power was for a couple episodes. Think about it - how long did it take between Peter was introduced and we actually knew what Peter's power actually was? Same thing with Niki, DL, Eden, Micah, Nathan, and so on. Nowadays, if a person has a power, we know about it the moment they appear. Hell, Samuel started off this season showing us how he can move the earth.
This doesn't exclusively apply to powers, but characters as well. We knew about Sylar and Linderman long before we ever saw their faces.
I also wish they'd bring in some more non-powered people. In season one, it seemed every powered up person hung around some normal folk. Now, we have, what, four non-powered people compared to a couple dozen powered folks? It just makes those with powers seem less special.
Finally, they need to have people actually doing real-world and normal type stuff more often. They've gotten better with it this season compared to seasons 2 and 3, but it's no where near where it was in season 1. In s1, it was easy to believe Claire as a cheerleader/Nathan as an aspiring politician/Parkman as a cop, because they actually did the things you'd expect a cheerleader/politician/cop to do. It felt more like we had powered people in the regular world.
You both forgot Claude and his invisibility. He just up and vanished midway through Season one. Never to be seen from again. They actually killed off/disappeared a lot of varies abilities between Season 1-2. Then we have the sound-wave ability we have only seen in flashbacks. Candice's illusion ability, Eden's persuasion, adoptive muscles memory and the others you two have already listed. I wish they would bring back more random powers and not just the basics the main cast already has. They need to get the surprise back into what each person can do rather than the same thing.
[quote name='Salamando3000']One of the big things I wish they'd get back to is the sense of Mystery the first season had.[/QUOTE]co-signed. I think they try to do it and it flops. so we have characters not living normal lives which might be interesting, but just doing nothing which is boring.
When they do pull off new surprises even then they don't seem to hit properly. Like i said earlier in this thread Emma's power started out like S1. It was strange we didn't know how it worked but there were hints.. then it turns out her power is something completely different.
Yeah, I'm still liking this season, but that episode was pretty bad.
But even worse I knew the thread would be full of posts by the same people who've been bitching about the show for the past 3 seasons non-stop. :lol:
Move on already folks. How many seasons and posts of "this show is ass" do you have to suffer through to leave it and watch something else and leave the thread for those who still at least somewhat enjoy the show?
Anyone? I guess i'll be the one to say it, episode was ing terrible. Sylar has just been crying way too much about dying alone. Nothing stopping him from taking a break for a few decades (immortal remember?) knock up a few dozen women have a huge family and never be alone again. Besides this is all a damn retread of his crying from Season 3. If they manage one more season I think it's time for a completely new cast with different writers.
[quote name='coolsteel']Anyone? I guess i'll be the one to say it, episode was ing terrible. Sylar has just been crying way too much about dying alone. Nothing stopping him from taking a break for a few decades (immortal remember?) knock up a few dozen women have a huge family and never be alone again. Besides this is all a damn retread of his crying from Season 3. If they manage one more season I think it's time for a completely new cast with different writers.[/QUOTE]
Yea, I would agree that it wasn't very good. I did like how Parkman dealt with Sylar and
started entombing him in his basement
. I wonder if they are going to manage something interesting for the end of the season or just more of the same crap.
All I can say is that Sylar is going to be pissed with Matt. I wouldn't be surprised if Matt was the first one Sylar kills to get to be old Sylar again. Though I have a feeling from the preview for next week that Peter will end up talking Sylar into doing good yet again. I wonder if they have made it so Peter empathizes with Sylar to regain his old ability back. Peter could also just ability replicate Sylar's empathetic mimicry and would have his old power back anyways.
[quote name='erehwon']Yea, I would agree that it wasn't very good. I did like how Parkman dealt with Sylar and
started entombing him in his basement
. I wonder if they are going to manage something interesting for the end of the season or just more of the same crap.[/QUOTE]
Regarding Parkman
I busted out laughing at that scene, he could have done all sorts of stuff with the body but a brick wall in the basement? I wouldn't want the guy's body in my house dammit!
[quote name='ImLuhkee']All I can say is that Sylar is going to be pissed with Matt. I wouldn't be surprised if Matt was the first one Sylar kills to get to be old Sylar again. Though I have a feeling from the preview for next week that Peter will end up talking Sylar into doing good yet again. I wonder if they have made it so Peter empathizes with Sylar to regain his old ability back. Peter could also just ability replicate Sylar's empathetic mimicry and would have his old power back anyways.[/QUOTE]
I would honestly be surprised if he did away with Matt , that would make too much sense and i'm sure all will be forgiven as they laugh about it over beer in another few episodes.
[quote name='coolsteel']
I would honestly be surprised if he did away with Matt , that would make too much sense and i'm sure all will be forgiven as they laugh about it over beer in another few episodes.[/QUOTE]
Before last nights episode I would have guess that Matt and Sylar could have gotten along after everything they had been through together. Matt could have even found a way to actually help him, but now I think Sylar will hold a grudge.
Being trapped in his own mind for 3 years so far. I wouldn't emerge happy about that. The idea of Sylar in the wall just made me think Matt would Tell-Tale Heart story and make himself more crazy.
I would agree normally but really look back in the show, grudges aren't a big thing with these people. Peter should beat Mohinder's ass on the spot every time they meet for what he pulled in season 3 yet they are all buddy buddy. Sylar should have killed Noah, Angela and Parkman for what they did to him before but he shrugged it off eventually. Hell Claire doesn't even seem too upset that the only reason Nathan never really accepted her was because of dear ol grandma.
My wife and I both saw the duplicator being the real shooter plan right away. It was such an obvious plan. I think Samuel is just getting to be the Bad Guy the show needs. His manipulation of Edger/carnies now. He took awhile but has the potential to be a super villian.
Yes Janice's haircut makes him her look very manly.
[quote name='Salamando3000']One of the big things I wish they'd get back to is the sense of Mystery the first season had. There were a good many characters who'd pop up, we'd get the feeling they had a power, but never actually know what their power was for a couple episodes. Think about it - how long did it take between Peter was introduced and we actually knew what Peter's power actually was? Same thing with Niki, DL, Eden, Micah, Nathan, and so on. Nowadays, if a person has a power, we know about it the moment they appear. Hell, Samuel started off this season showing us how he can move the earth.[/QUOTE]
I think they tried to do that with the deaf woman, but they just went all over the place with her. She can see sound. No! She can learn how to play instruments! No! She can manipulate sound to do damage! No! She can draw people to her (the most random and disconnected of them)! It was like the writers sat down and started to toss out ideas for what her powers would be and said, "Meh, let's do all of them!"
[quote name='ImLuhkee']
My wife and I both saw the duplicator being the real shooter plan right away. It was such an obvious plan. I think Samuel is just getting to be the Bad Guy the show needs. His manipulation of Edger/carnies now. He took awhile but has the potential to be a super villian.
[/QUOTE]
I can understand why NBC decided not to go with Tim Kring's idea of having a new cast every season, but I really think the one character they should've been done with in the first season was Sylar. He was a really cool villain the first season, but they just really haven't known what to do with him. Now we get all these story lines about whether or not he wants to be good. It's pretty much of a rollercoaster. He thought he was the Petrelli's kid, so he wanted to make them proud. Then he decided he needed to find his real father so he could be a killer again. Then he has Nathan take over and he struggles to get the power back to kill. Oh, but now he just wants to be human again.
And, of course, all the characters are so stupid when it comes to him. He's a serial killer who has murdered dozens of people in a vicious and savage way. Yet, everyone seems to just look the other way when he tries to be good. The most recent example, of course, being Peter deciding to save Sylar since he's going to "save everyone" (something he can tell from a premonition where he says he'll help the deaf girl, because, you know, villains never lie).
This is the reason I've found Samuel so refreshing. He's probably the first convincing villain we've had since the first season. He's also decently written as he's sort of morally gray. Really, I think Heroes would've done much better had they adapted a Buffy the Vampire Slayer design of focusing on one big villain who is dealt with by the season's end.
[quote name='Cantatus']
I can understand why NBC decided not to go with Tim Kring's idea of having a new cast every season,[/QUOTE]
I didn't realize that NBC made the final decision not to go that way. I had always thought Tim had just changed his mind.
I can agree that Sylar has been pulled in too many directions. I do think that the writer's rely on Sylar to try out ideas with. I think the best solution is too not directly kill him off but possibly just turn him into the 'Future Gabriel' where he turns into a 'normal' in control guy and maybe has little Noah and just leave him out of the main story or show. If you keep him out of eyes sight, people will end up forgiving the writers and forget about abusing Sylar. Along with him maybe recycle a few more characters in the process and go along with the one main villain per season. Also make sure a Season is a volume and stop shorting a story because you want to fit too much in.
[quote name='slickkill77']Idk. Sylar was really one of the only good things on the show for a long time after season 1[/QUOTE]
Sylar certainly has had some good story lines, it's just that the writers keep swinging him wildly on this pendulum of if he is good or bad. He's become predictably unpredictable, because we all know that no matter how much Sylar may want to be good, he's inevitably going to go back to being evil. That's why his current story doesn't really phase me much. Sylar may get depowered or whatever (something that already has happened... twice...), but it won't matter. By next season (or likely even before the end of this one), they'll reboot everything and Sylar will be back to normal.
Of course, this is one of the problems with the show in general. They are too unwilling to take steps away from what they initially established. Sylar will always be evil. Claire will always question her father no matter how many times he been right. Mama Petrelli will always keep secrets regardless of how many times that has bit everyone in the ass. Mohinder will always be a freaking moron. Any main character that is said to die will inevitably return in some fashion. Any time they step away from these sorts of things, they inevitably find a way to snap back to the way things were. (I'm still sort of annoyed with how fast Matt was able to get over Daphne.)
Perhaps if they took some risks and allowed things to change, the show would be more compelling. And really, with their ratings in the toilet, what's the harm in them trying to do some drastically new things?
[quote name='ImLuhkee']I didn't realize that NBC made the final decision not to go that way. I had always thought Tim had just changed his mind.[/quote]
I think NBC sort of convinced him to change things. Season one had put out some really popular characters, and I guess NBC was afraid it'd hurt the ratings to have a new set of characters every season. Sadly, it seems the writers just took that and tried to do both things. The second season introduced a whole new glut of characters while keeping everyone from the first season, making there be way too many stories going on. If they wanted to introduce new characters every season, they should've been willing to rotate some of the others out. At the conclusion of the first season, they easily could've been done with Nikki (whose story reached its conclusion), and Peter and Nathan (who valiantly sacrificed themselves to save New York).
Ah. Yeah, I missed an episode and didn't bother watching it. The episode I missed was when they first met the healing kid.
Honestly, I wish they would have gotten rid of Sylar a long time ago.
Although, my wishful storyline for season 2 would have gone something like this:
Remember those cockroaches that kept hanging around Sylar? Turned out he was being watching by a big baddy who has some sort of power that's more frightening than control over cockroaches, and at the end of season one, he saved Sylar by dragging him into the sewer. All the Heroes were brought together at the end of season 1, and stuck together to solve problems rather than constantly going off in their own storylines. The cockroach dude heals Sylar, and they begin recruiting villains to their cause. Oh, and they actually let characters die.
[quote name='ChibiJosh']-and at the end of season one, he saved Sylar by dragging him into the sewer...... Oh, and they actually let characters die.[/QUOTE]
Are you contradicting yourself? Otherwise I really don't see any problem with what you said it would have made a decent storyline. There are so many directions that the writers 'could' have gone in(tons of heroes fan-fiction that shows that) but they just didn't.
[quote name='ChibiJosh']
Remember those cockroaches that kept hanging around Sylar? Turned out he was being watching by a big baddy who has some sort of power that's more frightening than control over cockroaches, and at the end of season one, he saved Sylar by dragging him into the sewer. All the Heroes were brought together at the end of season 1, and stuck together to solve problems rather than constantly going off in their own storylines. The cockroach dude heals Sylar, and they begin recruiting villains to their cause. Oh, and they actually let characters die.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='ChibiJosh']When did they "remember"? They did that once for her father in season 2, as far as I can remember.[/QUOTE]
That's one part of the show I'd be happy for them to pretend like it never happened. Seriously, them having Claire's blood suddenly be able to cure anything and everything was pretty much them inserting a permanent deus ex machina to allow them to undo any deaths in the show. As it was, they pretty much convinced people that the chances of a character getting killed off for real was next to nil, but this was sort of cementing the fact.
I thought this weeks episode was ok. The stuff with Sylar was a bit lame, but I liked Samuel's manipulation of the carnies. As someone else mentioned, he seems to finally be stepping up to be a worthwhile villain.
If only I could pretend like the plan to make a grassy paradise for his wishful girlfriend wasn't ever there. Also this new plan was his plan the whole time then Samuel is pretty decent villian.
The stuff with Sylar would've been better if he could act in any way other than "I am the bad guy who will kill you now" motif. I'm not saying he's a bad actor, he's just not a versatile one.
So, Samuel decides to send a man whose power is multiplication after an Empath (currently psychic), and a Telekinetic Immortal Empath. Something tells me he hadn't thought his cunning plan all the way through. As much as I wouldn't mind 15 Sylars and 15 Peters vs 15 Carnie, the fight'll be over much faster than that, and Sylar could get a new power too.
Speaking of Sylar...so he's good now? At least it's not because of Daddy/Mommy issues.
It was better than the last few episodes but still not that great. The scenes with Sylar and Peter were pretty high on the unintentional comedy scale. Also, smashing through a wall as a metaphor for escaping where ever they were trapped was so cliched - 5th grade writing at best. Learning about Noah's past was OK I guess but he was a MUCH better character in the beginning of Season 1 when he didn't even have a name like CSM. He was just this mysterious bad ass. He seems so tame now.
I enjoyed last night's episode. I have to admit, I was starting to feel sorry for Sylar towards the end of his time trapped in his head. Looking forward to next week, just doesn't feel like there's been enough build up for it to be the finale.
Last nights episode was not bad. HRG's past was interesting and finally explains why he started working for the company. I agree that it seems like the finale is coming way too soon. This season being 19 episodes is shortest since the writer's strike. I wonder how much longer the show will continue? As for the finale it will either end with a major cliffhanger or be just a complete mess.
[quote name='evildeadjedi']Last nights episode was not bad. HRG's past was interesting and finally explains why he started working for the company. I agree that it seems like the finale is coming way too soon. This season being 19 episodes is shortest since the writer's strike. I wonder how much longer the show will continue? As for the finale it will either end with a major cliffhanger or be just a complete mess.[/QUOTE]
Not having watched the last few episodes, yet, I'll have to go with a complete mess. It wouldn't be a season of Heroes without a terrible finale.
I didn't realize that next week is the season finale. Is it a 2 hour or just the normal slot? I don't know how they would expect to piece everything together in an hour.
I get the feeling Sylar is going to end up dieing a hero along with killing Samuel in the finale. Then Hiro will go to an alternate reality and bring back Peters Irish girlfriend. She will then have lesbian sex with Hiro's girlfriend. And the show will fade to black.
Btw where the hell is Hiro's girlfriend? I hate how the writers forget things like that. That was Hiro's whole quest and now...
Errr I don't think the writers forgot anything, Hiro is currently laid up in a hospital and there is no way in hell that plot point gets resolved without Hiro there to do it himself. Though that would be pretty funny if she and Katlyn were off chillin together in the time stream .
[quote name='JolietJake']I think i would have rather not known Noah's past. Him being a TERRIBLE used car salesman kills any badassness that was left in the character.[/QUOTE]
Fixed it for you.
As for Charlie,
in an earlier interview the writers said that Charlie and Hiro will be reunited in the season finale.
ing terrible. Sylar has just been crying way too much about dying alone. Nothing stopping him from taking a break for a few decades (immortal remember?) knock up a few dozen women have a huge family and never be alone again. Besides this is all a damn retread of his crying from Season 3. If they manage one more season I think it's time for a completely new cast with different writers.
. Also this new plan was his plan the whole time then Samuel is pretty decent villian
.
