I'm quite surprised they aren't offering ANYTHING at launch, though I couldn't care less since I decided not to get a Go a few months ago. High price plus nothing being offered isn't exactly a very attractive way of getting people to take the dive into a full DD console.
PSP Go thread-
- Thread starter h3llbring3r
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h3llbring3r
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[quote name='RelentlessRolento']i recommend the OP be retitled... just like the kotaku article it's misleading.[/QUOTE]
In fairness, I did change the OP title from "no UMD program" to "no UMD program planned" which is entirely accurate. It's also the biggest related news story for the go and the "concern at large" for most PSP owners (clearly not all).
Hopefully they can work something out, and I will gladly change the title again as the situation on the ground changes (and hopefully we will get to change it again regarding a UMD trade-in).
Until then, it's consistent with the launch information. I have changed the OP on several occasions as news breaks, and will continue to do so.
In fairness, I did change the OP title from "no UMD program" to "no UMD program planned" which is entirely accurate. It's also the biggest related news story for the go and the "concern at large" for most PSP owners (clearly not all).
Hopefully they can work something out, and I will gladly change the title again as the situation on the ground changes (and hopefully we will get to change it again regarding a UMD trade-in).
Until then, it's consistent with the launch information. I have changed the OP on several occasions as news breaks, and will continue to do so.
Tux.Bobble
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[quote name='RedvsBlue']So, at this point what kind of failure are we talking? Virtual Boy, Lynx, Game Gear? Which one will it be?[/QUOTE]
I'm calling Game Gear. It'll be "successful" in that people know it exists, at the time it exists. But it won't last very long before people realize it's hardly the best option of the available set of portable gaming hardware.
And I've cooled off now. I think I'm still getting the Go...it's just a shame that I won't be getting as many games for a while at this rate...
There better be some good holiday PSN sales, if Sony wants this digital download only stuff to work. If Sony could emulate the Steam method--offering weekly deals, limited-time bundles, etc., I could see this taking off DECENTLY. But not greatly...
I'm calling Game Gear. It'll be "successful" in that people know it exists, at the time it exists. But it won't last very long before people realize it's hardly the best option of the available set of portable gaming hardware.
And I've cooled off now. I think I'm still getting the Go...it's just a shame that I won't be getting as many games for a while at this rate...
There better be some good holiday PSN sales, if Sony wants this digital download only stuff to work. If Sony could emulate the Steam method--offering weekly deals, limited-time bundles, etc., I could see this taking off DECENTLY. But not greatly...
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']
it boils down to the same end result: they promised, in a very public way, something they either cannot or no longer desire to deliver as a feature of their product. They threw the "possible" line in there to try and pacify optimists and fanboys, but their track record leads me to believe that this will be another unfulfilled promise. Anyone who thinks otherwise is indulging in seriously wishful thinking, or delusional.[/QUOTE]
I wonder how many here making statements like this actually read the article. They never threw a "possible" line in there. They said,
"We were evaluating a UMD conversion program, but due to legal and technical reasons we will not be offering the program at this time," a Sony Computer Entertainment of America spokesman told Kotaku."
"We are looking into programs for owners who have previously purchased UMD titles and want to exchange them for digital versions," Sony Computer Entertainment's Brian Keltner told Kotaku at the time. "It's something we are still hammering out the details. As soon as we have solid plans in place we will make an announcement."
If sales are not as good as they like, that would be more reason for them to work on the goodwill program. So even if its not ready for launch there's still a lot of motivation to try to make it available.
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']i recommend the OP be retitled... just like the kotaku article it's misleading.[/QUOTE]
That seems to have been the whole point of this thread, every time I come in I see the OP bitching about something related to the PSP. Like a few days ago when he bitched about the Minis not being online and such, not realizing why they made those decisions, which so many here had to point out to him. Even with the title change he still makes it sound like it's not planned at all. A proper title would be No UMD Program Ready for Launch. Kind of backwards for someone who just wants to hate on something to host the thread for it.
For these fun little fail comparisons, if anything I'd compare it to the Sega Nomad, which was also made to play already released games. Nomad never released in EU or AU, like how some retailers have banned the Go there. Nomad allowed you to connect a controller like the Go does. As well as hook it up to the TV. It was not fully compatible with the Genesis's add ons without additonal accessories, like Go.
it boils down to the same end result: they promised, in a very public way, something they either cannot or no longer desire to deliver as a feature of their product. They threw the "possible" line in there to try and pacify optimists and fanboys, but their track record leads me to believe that this will be another unfulfilled promise. Anyone who thinks otherwise is indulging in seriously wishful thinking, or delusional.[/QUOTE]
I wonder how many here making statements like this actually read the article. They never threw a "possible" line in there. They said,
"We were evaluating a UMD conversion program, but due to legal and technical reasons we will not be offering the program at this time," a Sony Computer Entertainment of America spokesman told Kotaku."
"We are looking into programs for owners who have previously purchased UMD titles and want to exchange them for digital versions," Sony Computer Entertainment's Brian Keltner told Kotaku at the time. "It's something we are still hammering out the details. As soon as we have solid plans in place we will make an announcement."
If sales are not as good as they like, that would be more reason for them to work on the goodwill program. So even if its not ready for launch there's still a lot of motivation to try to make it available.
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']i recommend the OP be retitled... just like the kotaku article it's misleading.[/QUOTE]
That seems to have been the whole point of this thread, every time I come in I see the OP bitching about something related to the PSP. Like a few days ago when he bitched about the Minis not being online and such, not realizing why they made those decisions, which so many here had to point out to him. Even with the title change he still makes it sound like it's not planned at all. A proper title would be No UMD Program Ready for Launch. Kind of backwards for someone who just wants to hate on something to host the thread for it.
For these fun little fail comparisons, if anything I'd compare it to the Sega Nomad, which was also made to play already released games. Nomad never released in EU or AU, like how some retailers have banned the Go there. Nomad allowed you to connect a controller like the Go does. As well as hook it up to the TV. It was not fully compatible with the Genesis's add ons without additonal accessories, like Go.
Gothic Walrus
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[quote name='J7.']I wonder how many here making statements like this actually read the article. They never threw a "possible" line in there.[/QUOTE]
YOU said that.
[quote name='J7.']They said no umd program in place at this time due to legal and technical reasons, that means it's still possible. That should be reflected in the OP instead of acting like its 100% never possible.[/QUOTE]
Like I already said, I'm firmly convinced that even if the goodwill program does happen down the line, it won't be enough to save the system. The lack of the goodwill program at launch will do a lot of damage to the system's reputation, especially since Sony waited so long to make the announcement that it wouldn't be in place. I can only imagine how many preorders Sony lost tonight, once the announcement began circulating. Even if the program does eventually happen, they, the gaming press, and everybody posting on forums about it have all generated a lot of negative publicity for the device tonight.
[quote name='J7.']For these fun little fail comparisons, if anything I'd compare it to the Sega Nomad, which was also made to play already released games. Nomad never released in EU or AU, like how some retailers have banned the Go there. Nomad allowed you to connect a controller like the Go does. As well as hook it up to the TV. It was not fully compatible with the Genesis's add ons without additonal accessories, like Go.[/QUOTE]
First problem with that comparison: the Nomad actually COULD play previously released games. Second problem: nobody's "banned" the PSPgo, unless "banned" now means "decided not to sell." Third problem: most people wouldn't even think of trying to connect a Sega CD, 32X, Activator, or most of the accessories for the console to a portable Nomad, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that headsets and component cables that work with the PSP 3000 would work with the PSPgo.
For all of its faults, the Sega Nomad still has its fans today. I doubt that's going to be the case for the PSPgo.
Hell, I have doubts that the PSPgo will be able to access its games fifteen years from now. I will admit that I don't know what kind of DRM Sony plans on using with the PSPgo, but I know that there has to be something in place to make the PSPgo something more than a $250 piracy machine. DRM has screwed so many people over in so many ways that I don't trust it by default now. If it's for a $5 title on Steam or Xbox Live, I'll suck it up and deal with it; if it's for a full-priced handheld title that cost $30 or $40, I would definitely think twice.
[quote name='Scorch']No UMD program, no buy.[/QUOTE]
Since you work at Game Crazy, I figure it can't hurt to ask: any information on how the PSPgo has been received at your store, either by the employees or the customers?
YOU said that.
[quote name='J7.']They said no umd program in place at this time due to legal and technical reasons, that means it's still possible. That should be reflected in the OP instead of acting like its 100% never possible.[/QUOTE]
Like I already said, I'm firmly convinced that even if the goodwill program does happen down the line, it won't be enough to save the system. The lack of the goodwill program at launch will do a lot of damage to the system's reputation, especially since Sony waited so long to make the announcement that it wouldn't be in place. I can only imagine how many preorders Sony lost tonight, once the announcement began circulating. Even if the program does eventually happen, they, the gaming press, and everybody posting on forums about it have all generated a lot of negative publicity for the device tonight.
[quote name='J7.']For these fun little fail comparisons, if anything I'd compare it to the Sega Nomad, which was also made to play already released games. Nomad never released in EU or AU, like how some retailers have banned the Go there. Nomad allowed you to connect a controller like the Go does. As well as hook it up to the TV. It was not fully compatible with the Genesis's add ons without additonal accessories, like Go.[/QUOTE]
First problem with that comparison: the Nomad actually COULD play previously released games. Second problem: nobody's "banned" the PSPgo, unless "banned" now means "decided not to sell." Third problem: most people wouldn't even think of trying to connect a Sega CD, 32X, Activator, or most of the accessories for the console to a portable Nomad, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that headsets and component cables that work with the PSP 3000 would work with the PSPgo.
For all of its faults, the Sega Nomad still has its fans today. I doubt that's going to be the case for the PSPgo.
Hell, I have doubts that the PSPgo will be able to access its games fifteen years from now. I will admit that I don't know what kind of DRM Sony plans on using with the PSPgo, but I know that there has to be something in place to make the PSPgo something more than a $250 piracy machine. DRM has screwed so many people over in so many ways that I don't trust it by default now. If it's for a $5 title on Steam or Xbox Live, I'll suck it up and deal with it; if it's for a full-priced handheld title that cost $30 or $40, I would definitely think twice.
[quote name='Scorch']No UMD program, no buy.[/QUOTE]
Since you work at Game Crazy, I figure it can't hurt to ask: any information on how the PSPgo has been received at your store, either by the employees or the customers?
RelentlessRolento
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lol damn people took my comment too seriously... >_
h3llbring3r
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[quote name='J7.']
That seems to have been the whole point of this thread, every time I come in I see the OP bitching about something related to the PSP. Like a few days ago when he bitched about the Minis not being online and such, not realizing why they made those decisions, which so many here had to point out to him. Even with the title change he still makes it sound like it's not planned at all. A proper title would be No UMD Program Ready for Launch. Kind of backwards for someone who just wants to hate on something to host the thread for it.
.[/QUOTE]
It was with great excitement that I started this thread as the first credible reports of the PSPgo began to emerge. Many of us wanted this device to succeed to improve the platform and for our own enjoyment as consumers.
I started this thread because I was following the early devlopments rumors closely and I was very excited that Sony might be putting out a device to correct many of the mistakes made with the first 3 iterations of the PSP. Instead the past mistakes haven't been addressed, in fact they are compounded with new & more serious ones.
I've posted plenty of positive stuff on the go and was very excited about the device at the announcement.
Most recently- I'll point to the positive hardware review from the tele and news about the legacy peripheral adapter for 1k-3k psp add-ons.
Unlike you, I post positive and negative criticisms about the go, isn't that what we are supposed to discussing products as consumers.
It's not my fault the news keeps getting worse and worse. It is not my fault you are in complete awe of all decisions as,collectively, the majority of us have found the moronic. I've read all the responses to mine the other's criticisms.
The merits of each point speak for themselves-
The development of the go is blazing a path that is anti-consumer, anti-innovation, pro-developer, short sighted and ignoring their existing buying base's desires and market demand- forsaking all to maximize immediate profitability.
It's become pretty clear who will defend this device at all cost and in the face of serious and legitimate criticisms.
I think you need to go back and read your post as most of your responses to the legitimate criticisms are rationalizations.
Furthermore, most (if not all) of your responses I've read are not thorough justifications addressing the issues of the decisions the majority of us have found ill-conceived as consumers. We are not in a Sony stockholders assessing why these decisions are good for Sony, we are product consumers analyzing the products merits and flaws.
Criticizing ≠ bitching, I take offense at that- but comments as such are a pretty good bench mark to ferret out the fanboys.
That seems to have been the whole point of this thread, every time I come in I see the OP bitching about something related to the PSP. Like a few days ago when he bitched about the Minis not being online and such, not realizing why they made those decisions, which so many here had to point out to him. Even with the title change he still makes it sound like it's not planned at all. A proper title would be No UMD Program Ready for Launch. Kind of backwards for someone who just wants to hate on something to host the thread for it.
.[/QUOTE]
It was with great excitement that I started this thread as the first credible reports of the PSPgo began to emerge. Many of us wanted this device to succeed to improve the platform and for our own enjoyment as consumers.
I started this thread because I was following the early devlopments rumors closely and I was very excited that Sony might be putting out a device to correct many of the mistakes made with the first 3 iterations of the PSP. Instead the past mistakes haven't been addressed, in fact they are compounded with new & more serious ones.
I've posted plenty of positive stuff on the go and was very excited about the device at the announcement.
Most recently- I'll point to the positive hardware review from the tele and news about the legacy peripheral adapter for 1k-3k psp add-ons.
Unlike you, I post positive and negative criticisms about the go, isn't that what we are supposed to discussing products as consumers.
It's not my fault the news keeps getting worse and worse. It is not my fault you are in complete awe of all decisions as,collectively, the majority of us have found the moronic. I've read all the responses to mine the other's criticisms.
The merits of each point speak for themselves-
The development of the go is blazing a path that is anti-consumer, anti-innovation, pro-developer, short sighted and ignoring their existing buying base's desires and market demand- forsaking all to maximize immediate profitability.
It's become pretty clear who will defend this device at all cost and in the face of serious and legitimate criticisms.
I think you need to go back and read your post as most of your responses to the legitimate criticisms are rationalizations.
Furthermore, most (if not all) of your responses I've read are not thorough justifications addressing the issues of the decisions the majority of us have found ill-conceived as consumers. We are not in a Sony stockholders assessing why these decisions are good for Sony, we are product consumers analyzing the products merits and flaws.
Criticizing ≠ bitching, I take offense at that- but comments as such are a pretty good bench mark to ferret out the fanboys.
Chibi_Kaji
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Just as I thought the US isn't getting that PSPgo rewards thing.
Edit: I'm just going to cancel my pre-order... It's just impossible to defend this anymore. Japan and Europe gets some kind of nice things and the US... just gets asked to bend over.
Edit: I'm just going to cancel my pre-order... It's just impossible to defend this anymore. Japan and Europe gets some kind of nice things and the US... just gets asked to bend over.
Gothic Walrus
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[quote name='RelentlessRolento']lol damn people took my comment too seriously... >_
h3llbring3r
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Okay this really confuses me:
Now it seems like they are circling the wagons. One the plus side, this makes me think the push for a UMD trade-in may get harder on Sony's side towards the publishers.
I thought the no 2nd analog stick, absence of a touch screen, and the same graphics standards were all done because the go was the same platform- just one that forgo-ed the physical media of the UMD. Crow- eat it.
Now it seems like they are circling the wagons. One the plus side, this makes me think the push for a UMD trade-in may get harder on Sony's side towards the publishers.
Sony should never have said anything about this "good will program" in the first place. I mean, there is no plausible way they could have taken care of existing UMD owners without completely opening the floodgates to piracy. Just no way. Still, they somehow thought it would be a good idea to make promises they must have known they couldn't realistically keep.
Even the "three free games" thing for Europe comes off as a bit of a slap in the face to someone like me who owns dozens of UMD games. Wow, my awesome free gift is that I get to continue playing three whole games from my collection? It's ridiculous.
Even the "three free games" thing for Europe comes off as a bit of a slap in the face to someone like me who owns dozens of UMD games. Wow, my awesome free gift is that I get to continue playing three whole games from my collection? It's ridiculous.
Chibi_Kaji
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[quote name='Ryuukishi']Sony should never have said anything about this "good will program" in the first place. I mean, there is no plausible way they could have taken care of existing UMD owners without completely opening the floodgates to piracy. Just no way. Still, they somehow thought it would be a good idea to make promises they must have known they couldn't realistically keep.[/QUOTE]
No, they would have needed to address the issue anyway. But they could have handled it much better then they did.
No, they would have needed to address the issue anyway. But they could have handled it much better then they did.
darkwingduck13
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QFT. I've been saying this all along, and it's good to finally see Sony proving me right. The whole thing with the Go has always just been a ploy to eliminate the used game market. I said it in the beginning and I'm saying it now. The track record of "reduced prices" for digital distribution on the PSP has been spotty at best, and with this, it's become pretty clear what Sony thinks of the consumers who've supported the platform all along.
I've been ROFLing ever since I read the news.
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[quote name='Gothic Walrus']YOU said that. [/QUOTE]
Yes I said it's still possible. That's a lot different from you acting like Sony is literally saying, hey its still possible, but we're just saying it is still possible. That's a helluva lot different than them saying they're still working on the details. You took my words and made them Sony's.
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']
Like I already said, I'm firmly convinced that even if the goodwill program does happen down the line, it won't be enough to save the system. The lack of the goodwill program at launch will do a lot of damage to the system's reputation, especially since Sony waited so long to make the announcement that it wouldn't be in place. I can only imagine how many preorders Sony lost tonight, once the announcement began circulating. Even if the program does eventually happen, they, the gaming press, and everybody posting on forums about it have all generated a lot of negative publicity for the device tonight. [/QUOTE]
No shit. I didn't disagree with that. I don't think the system is dead though. Sure the launch won't be good in the US, but they can make changes. I'm sure we'll see a price drop fast, early next year.
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']
First problem with that comparison: the Nomad actually COULD play previously released games. Second problem: nobody's "banned" the PSPgo, unless "banned" now means "decided not to sell." Third problem: most people wouldn't even think of trying to connect a Sega CD, 32X, Activator, or most of the accessories for the console to a portable Nomad, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that headsets and component cables that work with the PSP 3000 would work with the PSPgo.
For all of its faults, the Sega Nomad still has its fans today. I doubt that's going to be the case for the PSPgo.
Hell, I have doubts that the PSPgo will be able to access its games fifteen years from now. I will admit that I don't know what kind of DRM Sony plans on using with the PSPgo, but I know that there has to be something in place to make the PSPgo something more than a $250 piracy machine. DRM has screwed so many people over in so many ways that I don't trust it by default now. If it's for a $5 title on Steam or Xbox Live, I'll suck it up and deal with it; if it's for a full-priced handheld title that cost $30 or $40, I would definitely think twice. [/QUOTE]
Blah blah blah. The other comparisons made with other systems had just as many technicalities. No one tried to rip them apart because it was in fun... Anyways PSP Go can play previously released games, you just have to download them. Yes banned means decided they won't carry it, they banned it from their shop so to speak...
People playing Nomad on their TV at home or with another person certainly might hook up the other systems to it. Probably close to the same amount who would hook up the camera to Go. But that wasn't the point anyways
. The point was that both can be hooked up to peripherals with an additional accessory... There's some people that do like the Go, despite what you think, especially those yet to own a PSP.
Yes I said it's still possible. That's a lot different from you acting like Sony is literally saying, hey its still possible, but we're just saying it is still possible. That's a helluva lot different than them saying they're still working on the details. You took my words and made them Sony's.
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']
Like I already said, I'm firmly convinced that even if the goodwill program does happen down the line, it won't be enough to save the system. The lack of the goodwill program at launch will do a lot of damage to the system's reputation, especially since Sony waited so long to make the announcement that it wouldn't be in place. I can only imagine how many preorders Sony lost tonight, once the announcement began circulating. Even if the program does eventually happen, they, the gaming press, and everybody posting on forums about it have all generated a lot of negative publicity for the device tonight. [/QUOTE]
No shit. I didn't disagree with that. I don't think the system is dead though. Sure the launch won't be good in the US, but they can make changes. I'm sure we'll see a price drop fast, early next year.
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']
First problem with that comparison: the Nomad actually COULD play previously released games. Second problem: nobody's "banned" the PSPgo, unless "banned" now means "decided not to sell." Third problem: most people wouldn't even think of trying to connect a Sega CD, 32X, Activator, or most of the accessories for the console to a portable Nomad, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that headsets and component cables that work with the PSP 3000 would work with the PSPgo.
For all of its faults, the Sega Nomad still has its fans today. I doubt that's going to be the case for the PSPgo.
Hell, I have doubts that the PSPgo will be able to access its games fifteen years from now. I will admit that I don't know what kind of DRM Sony plans on using with the PSPgo, but I know that there has to be something in place to make the PSPgo something more than a $250 piracy machine. DRM has screwed so many people over in so many ways that I don't trust it by default now. If it's for a $5 title on Steam or Xbox Live, I'll suck it up and deal with it; if it's for a full-priced handheld title that cost $30 or $40, I would definitely think twice. [/QUOTE]
Blah blah blah. The other comparisons made with other systems had just as many technicalities. No one tried to rip them apart because it was in fun... Anyways PSP Go can play previously released games, you just have to download them. Yes banned means decided they won't carry it, they banned it from their shop so to speak...
People playing Nomad on their TV at home or with another person certainly might hook up the other systems to it. Probably close to the same amount who would hook up the camera to Go. But that wasn't the point anyways
. The point was that both can be hooked up to peripherals with an additional accessory... There's some people that do like the Go, despite what you think, especially those yet to own a PSP.[quote name='h3llbring3r']
I've posted plenty of positive stuff on the go and was very excited about the device at the announcement.
Most recently- I'll point to the positive hardware review from the tele and news about the legacy peripheral adapter for 1k-3k psp add-ons.
Unlike you, I post positive and negative criticisms about the go, isn't that what we are supposed to discussing products as consumers.
It's not my fault the news keeps getting worse and worse. It is not my fault you are in complete awe of all decisions as,collectively, the majority of us have found the moronic. I've read all the responses to mine the other's criticisms.
The merits of each point speak for themselves-
The development of the go is blazing a path that is anti-consumer, anti-innovation, pro-developer, short sighted and ignoring their existing buying base's desires and market demand- forsaking all to maximize immediate profitability.
It's become pretty clear who will defend this device at all cost and in the face of serious and legitimate criticisms.
I think you need to go back and read your post as most of your responses to the legitimate criticisms are rationalizations.
Furthermore, most (if not all) of your responses I've read are not thorough justifications addressing the issues of the decisions the majority of us have found ill-conceived as consumers. We are not in a Sony stockholders assessing why these decisions are good for Sony, we are product consumers analyzing the products merits and flaws.
Criticizing ≠ bitching, I take offense at that- but comments as such are a pretty good bench mark to ferret out the fanboys.[/QUOTE]
Really. I distinctly remember you bitching about how it doesn't have a 2nd analog when they made the announcement and you made this thread.
I do post + and -. But I find myself having to defend things when people make things out 10,000 times worse than they are or bitch about something they don't know much about. Sure seems like bitching when you criticize the hell out of anything remotely negative to you personally.
I've said that the price sucks, having no UMD program ready for launch sucks, the digital download prices are bad, etc. However, I can see why all of those things have occurred. I look at both sides. I just don't see something I don't like personally and then make that out to be the defacto standard opinion. A few others have posted how they can see why Sony made some of those negative decisions because they look at what Sony had to do. But you know what, everyone who just wants to criticize doesn't appear to pay any attention to those rational posts.
For example, the price has to be higher because they need to give retailers reason to carry the Go. Since retailers will see less games sold, they need to make money on selling the Go. See past comments by people for why these types of decisions had to be made. It's not fully for Sony's profits or for other reasons that they made the decisions they did, it's some of both, and you seem to only want to focus on one side.
[quote name='h3llbring3r']Okay this really confuses me:
I thought the no 2nd analog stick, absence of a touch screen, and the same graphics standards were all done because the go was the same platform- just one that forgo-ed the physical media of the UMD. Crow- eat it.
Now it seems like they are circling the wagons. One the plus side, this makes me think the push for a UMD trade-in may get harder on Sony's side towards the publishers.[/QUOTE]
Is it really that far over your head? Dual platform strategy means 2 platforms, one high end, more expensive, that appeals to tech lovers & has digital games, the other lower end, less expensive, appeals to the common man and has umd games. Oh wait, you're finding something in nothing by trying to change the meaning of what they meant!
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']
"Fanboy" is a pretty accurate assessment; if you look at his recent posting history, I can show you some real doozies of posts he's written about how much the Wii sucks.
Ya and I recall you defending it as much as you can.
[/QUOTE]
I've posted plenty of positive stuff on the go and was very excited about the device at the announcement.
Most recently- I'll point to the positive hardware review from the tele and news about the legacy peripheral adapter for 1k-3k psp add-ons.
Unlike you, I post positive and negative criticisms about the go, isn't that what we are supposed to discussing products as consumers.
It's not my fault the news keeps getting worse and worse. It is not my fault you are in complete awe of all decisions as,collectively, the majority of us have found the moronic. I've read all the responses to mine the other's criticisms.
The merits of each point speak for themselves-
The development of the go is blazing a path that is anti-consumer, anti-innovation, pro-developer, short sighted and ignoring their existing buying base's desires and market demand- forsaking all to maximize immediate profitability.
It's become pretty clear who will defend this device at all cost and in the face of serious and legitimate criticisms.
I think you need to go back and read your post as most of your responses to the legitimate criticisms are rationalizations.
Furthermore, most (if not all) of your responses I've read are not thorough justifications addressing the issues of the decisions the majority of us have found ill-conceived as consumers. We are not in a Sony stockholders assessing why these decisions are good for Sony, we are product consumers analyzing the products merits and flaws.
Criticizing ≠ bitching, I take offense at that- but comments as such are a pretty good bench mark to ferret out the fanboys.[/QUOTE]
Really. I distinctly remember you bitching about how it doesn't have a 2nd analog when they made the announcement and you made this thread.
I do post + and -. But I find myself having to defend things when people make things out 10,000 times worse than they are or bitch about something they don't know much about. Sure seems like bitching when you criticize the hell out of anything remotely negative to you personally.
I've said that the price sucks, having no UMD program ready for launch sucks, the digital download prices are bad, etc. However, I can see why all of those things have occurred. I look at both sides. I just don't see something I don't like personally and then make that out to be the defacto standard opinion. A few others have posted how they can see why Sony made some of those negative decisions because they look at what Sony had to do. But you know what, everyone who just wants to criticize doesn't appear to pay any attention to those rational posts.
For example, the price has to be higher because they need to give retailers reason to carry the Go. Since retailers will see less games sold, they need to make money on selling the Go. See past comments by people for why these types of decisions had to be made. It's not fully for Sony's profits or for other reasons that they made the decisions they did, it's some of both, and you seem to only want to focus on one side.
[quote name='h3llbring3r']Okay this really confuses me:
I thought the no 2nd analog stick, absence of a touch screen, and the same graphics standards were all done because the go was the same platform- just one that forgo-ed the physical media of the UMD. Crow- eat it.
Now it seems like they are circling the wagons. One the plus side, this makes me think the push for a UMD trade-in may get harder on Sony's side towards the publishers.[/QUOTE]
Is it really that far over your head? Dual platform strategy means 2 platforms, one high end, more expensive, that appeals to tech lovers & has digital games, the other lower end, less expensive, appeals to the common man and has umd games. Oh wait, you're finding something in nothing by trying to change the meaning of what they meant!
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']
"Fanboy" is a pretty accurate assessment; if you look at his recent posting history, I can show you some real doozies of posts he's written about how much the Wii sucks.
Ya and I recall you defending it as much as you can.
[/QUOTE]
h3llbring3r
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[quote name='J7.']Really. I distinctly remember you bitching about how it doesn't have a 2nd analog when they made the announcement and you made this thread.[/QUOTE]
Who didn't ?
[quote name='J7.']
I do post + and -. But I find myself having to defend things when people make things out 10,000 times worse than they are or bitch about something they don't know much about. Sure seems like bitching when you criticize the hell out of anything remotely negative to you personally.[/QUOTE]
As a consumer, not personally. I called the price before the announcement, it was exactly what I expected. Any others . . .
[quote name='J7.']
I've said that the price sucks, having no UMD program ready for launch sucks, the digital download prices are bad, etc. However, I can see why all of those things have occurred. I look at both sides. I just don't see something I don't like personally and then make that out to be the defacto standard opinion. A few others have posted how they can see why Sony made some of those negative decisions because they look at what Sony had to do. But you know what, everyone who just wants to criticize doesn't appear to pay any attention to those rational posts.[/QUOTE]
Rationalizing ≠ rational. You sir, are miles from rational about this product and people posting legitimate criticisms of it's shortcomings.
[quote name='J7.']
For example, the price has to be higher because they need to give retailers reason to carry the Go. Since retailers will see less games sold, they need to make money on selling the Go. [/QUOTE]
When did I say otherwise?
[quote name='J7.']
See past comments by people for why these types of decisions had to be made. It's not fully for Sony's profits or for other reasons that they made the decisions they did, it's some of both, and you seem to only want to focus on one side.[/QUOTE]
Again . . . we are not approaching this from the perspective of Sony stockholders. What is entirely to their benefit and against my interests is relevant to the buyer how exactly? It's not at all that's how.
As I said pro-Sony / pro-publisher / anti-consumer. I never said it was all for Sony's benefit alone.
[quote name='J7.']
Is it really that far over your head? Dual platform strategy means 2 platforms, one high end, more expensive, that appeals to tech lovers & has digital games, the other lower end, less expensive, appeals to the common man and has umd games. Oh wait, you're finding something in nothing by trying to change the meaning of what they meant![/QUOTE]
What?
Two price points ≠ different platforms!
The 120gb and 250 slims are the same platform as were the original 20's and 60's despite price and feature differences- just as Arcade and Elite are not different platforms.
As stated before it was not me saying they were the same platform, that was from those defending the failure to update features, correct the inherent flaws and improve controls. The rationale was it is the same platform as the PSP, so adding 2nd nub, touch screen . . .etc. wasn't in line with game design for the other PSPs in the same platform.
Who didn't ?
[quote name='J7.']
I do post + and -. But I find myself having to defend things when people make things out 10,000 times worse than they are or bitch about something they don't know much about. Sure seems like bitching when you criticize the hell out of anything remotely negative to you personally.[/QUOTE]
As a consumer, not personally. I called the price before the announcement, it was exactly what I expected. Any others . . .
[quote name='J7.']
I've said that the price sucks, having no UMD program ready for launch sucks, the digital download prices are bad, etc. However, I can see why all of those things have occurred. I look at both sides. I just don't see something I don't like personally and then make that out to be the defacto standard opinion. A few others have posted how they can see why Sony made some of those negative decisions because they look at what Sony had to do. But you know what, everyone who just wants to criticize doesn't appear to pay any attention to those rational posts.[/QUOTE]
Rationalizing ≠ rational. You sir, are miles from rational about this product and people posting legitimate criticisms of it's shortcomings.
[quote name='J7.']
For example, the price has to be higher because they need to give retailers reason to carry the Go. Since retailers will see less games sold, they need to make money on selling the Go. [/QUOTE]
When did I say otherwise?
[quote name='J7.']
See past comments by people for why these types of decisions had to be made. It's not fully for Sony's profits or for other reasons that they made the decisions they did, it's some of both, and you seem to only want to focus on one side.[/QUOTE]
Again . . . we are not approaching this from the perspective of Sony stockholders. What is entirely to their benefit and against my interests is relevant to the buyer how exactly? It's not at all that's how.
As I said pro-Sony / pro-publisher / anti-consumer. I never said it was all for Sony's benefit alone.
[quote name='J7.']
Is it really that far over your head? Dual platform strategy means 2 platforms, one high end, more expensive, that appeals to tech lovers & has digital games, the other lower end, less expensive, appeals to the common man and has umd games. Oh wait, you're finding something in nothing by trying to change the meaning of what they meant![/QUOTE]
What?
Two price points ≠ different platforms!
The 120gb and 250 slims are the same platform as were the original 20's and 60's despite price and feature differences- just as Arcade and Elite are not different platforms.
As stated before it was not me saying they were the same platform, that was from those defending the failure to update features, correct the inherent flaws and improve controls. The rationale was it is the same platform as the PSP, so adding 2nd nub, touch screen . . .etc. wasn't in line with game design for the other PSPs in the same platform.
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[quote name='Ryuukishi']Sony should never have said anything about this "good will program" in the first place. I mean, there is no plausible way they could have taken care of existing UMD owners without completely opening the floodgates to piracy. Just no way. Still, they somehow thought it would be a good idea to make promises they must have known they couldn't realistically keep.
Even the "three free games" thing for Europe comes off as a bit of a slap in the face to someone like me who owns dozens of UMD games. Wow, my awesome free gift is that I get to continue playing three whole games from my collection? It's ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
I think it's any of these 17 games, whether you own them or not, just have a umd in the drive.
What you'll be able to do is download 3 games from a selection of 17; these can either be games from your current UMD collection or 3 new titles," Sony explains. The selections are:
Even the "three free games" thing for Europe comes off as a bit of a slap in the face to someone like me who owns dozens of UMD games. Wow, my awesome free gift is that I get to continue playing three whole games from my collection? It's ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
I think it's any of these 17 games, whether you own them or not, just have a umd in the drive.
What you'll be able to do is download 3 games from a selection of 17; these can either be games from your current UMD collection or 3 new titles," Sony explains. The selections are:
- Killzone Liberation
- Medievil
- Wipeout Pure
- Buzz Brain Bender
- Buzz Master Quiz
- SOCOM U.S. Navy SEALs: Fireteam Bravo
- Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters
- Everybody's Golf
- Resistance: Retribution
- Syphon Filter Dark Mirror
- Lemmings
- LocoRoco
- Patapon
- Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow
- Echochrome
- Pursuit Force: Extreme Justice
- Daxter
[quote name='h3llbring3r']Who didn't ?
Many did, many did not. You made the biggest stink I've seen out of anybody anywhere. And it's stupid to complain for another analog stick when those without it would not have one on the regular PSP, especially for online play and for the design process.
As a consumer, not personally. I called the price before the announcement, it was exactly what I expected. Any others . . .
The Minis, the analog stick, the umd program, the design of the hardware, probably others I forgot or don't know about.
Rationalizing ≠ ration. You sir are miles from rational about this product.
Yes its more rational to just complain incessantly than to try to understand why choices had to be made, despite their consequences...
When did I say otherwise?
You've complained about the price without taking that into account...
Again . . . we are not Sony stockholders.
As I said pro-Sony pro-publisher anti-consumer. I never said it was all for Sony's benefit alone.
You certainly make it out to seem that way. And yes, because getting more games made from publishers for a device that was starting to lose development support, does not help consumers.
[/QUOTE]
The way you post, it is clear that you love each chance you get to post something completely negative about the Go.
Many did, many did not. You made the biggest stink I've seen out of anybody anywhere. And it's stupid to complain for another analog stick when those without it would not have one on the regular PSP, especially for online play and for the design process.
As a consumer, not personally. I called the price before the announcement, it was exactly what I expected. Any others . . .
The Minis, the analog stick, the umd program, the design of the hardware, probably others I forgot or don't know about.
Rationalizing ≠ ration. You sir are miles from rational about this product.
Yes its more rational to just complain incessantly than to try to understand why choices had to be made, despite their consequences...
When did I say otherwise?
You've complained about the price without taking that into account...
Again . . . we are not Sony stockholders.
As I said pro-Sony pro-publisher anti-consumer. I never said it was all for Sony's benefit alone.
You certainly make it out to seem that way. And yes, because getting more games made from publishers for a device that was starting to lose development support, does not help consumers.
[/QUOTE]
The way you post, it is clear that you love each chance you get to post something completely negative about the Go.
darkwingduck13
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I also find it hilarious that even with the "three free games" program, they're some of the oldest titles on the system. What, they couldn't front for Everybody's Golf 2, LocoRoco 2, Patapon 2, etc?
h3llbring3r
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[quote name='J7.']
And it's stupid to complain for another analog stick when those without it would not have one on the regular PSP, especially for online play and for the design process.[/QUOTE]
But it's a different PLATFORM PER- YOU. That was my point, and if you read any sites other than this one the general consensus was it was a moronic decision in that regard.
[quote name='J7.']
You've complained about the price without taking that into account...
The Minis, the analog stick, the umd program, the design of the hardware, probably others I forgot or don't know about. [/QUOTE]
Again, we were talking about me not posting + and -, I think we explored all in that regard. Moot. We talked about it all.
[quote name='J7.']
And yes, because getting more games made from publishers for a device that was starting to lose development support, does not help consumers.[/QUOTE]
That's picking your bread over your butter at the expense of the consumer. If the device meets demand and you support it as a first party publisher any lost publishers and devs will come back to a then successful platform. You don't crap on the buyer to get publishers to make games on a platform no one wants. Cutting off your nose to spite your face is bad business.
[quote name='J7.']The way you post, it is clear that you love each chance you get to post something completely negative about the Go.[/QUOTE]
Please . . . you bend over backwards to defend the PSPgo and have conceded nothing but the price as an issue. Which is the only point that I can see justified as a consumer.
And it's stupid to complain for another analog stick when those without it would not have one on the regular PSP, especially for online play and for the design process.[/QUOTE]
But it's a different PLATFORM PER- YOU. That was my point, and if you read any sites other than this one the general consensus was it was a moronic decision in that regard.
[quote name='J7.']
You've complained about the price without taking that into account...
The Minis, the analog stick, the umd program, the design of the hardware, probably others I forgot or don't know about. [/QUOTE]
Again, we were talking about me not posting + and -, I think we explored all in that regard. Moot. We talked about it all.
[quote name='J7.']
And yes, because getting more games made from publishers for a device that was starting to lose development support, does not help consumers.[/QUOTE]
That's picking your bread over your butter at the expense of the consumer. If the device meets demand and you support it as a first party publisher any lost publishers and devs will come back to a then successful platform. You don't crap on the buyer to get publishers to make games on a platform no one wants. Cutting off your nose to spite your face is bad business.
[quote name='J7.']The way you post, it is clear that you love each chance you get to post something completely negative about the Go.[/QUOTE]
Please . . . you bend over backwards to defend the PSPgo and have conceded nothing but the price as an issue. Which is the only point that I can see justified as a consumer.
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LinkinPrime
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I'm getting the PSP Go with the intention of it being a media player 1st, gaming platform 2nd. I may buy a couple games on it, but I mainly want it as a portable video player that supports .divx/.avi.
That and the fact that I just bought it for $168 from that Dell deal
That and the fact that I just bought it for $168 from that Dell deal
h3llbring3r
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[quote name='LinkinPrime']
I just bought it for $168 from that Dell deal
[/QUOTE]
A fantastic price, especially if you don't already own a PSP.
I just bought it for $168 from that Dell deal
A fantastic price, especially if you don't already own a PSP.
LinkinPrime
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[quote name='h3llbring3r']A fantastic price, especially if you don't already own a PSP.[/QUOTE]
I don't. I want to get a few games on it for sure though, PowerStone Collection, Mega Man Powered Up, the Jak & Dexter, and Ratchet & Clank games for sure.
I hope all those are up on PSN or will shortly be up.
I don't. I want to get a few games on it for sure though, PowerStone Collection, Mega Man Powered Up, the Jak & Dexter, and Ratchet & Clank games for sure.
I hope all those are up on PSN or will shortly be up.
LinkinPrime
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The Go will eventually go there too...I hope.
h3llbring3r
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[quote name='chakan']The PSP is two platforms in a sense. One platform we're not allowed to talk about here. That is why I personally will have two PSPs, a 1000, and a Go.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
How long do think it will take them to make it a single platform again with custom software?
:lol:
How long do think it will take them to make it a single platform again with custom software?
opportunity777
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I'm just waiting for it to be released for about three to six months and check the final verdict. So far, my original perception of the system and Sony was pretty much spot on.
I'm hoping for the price on the 3000s to continue to fall because I need to replace my last one that was stolen.
I'm hoping for the price on the 3000s to continue to fall because I need to replace my last one that was stolen.
Chibi_Kaji
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[quote name='LinkinPrime']I don't. I want to get a few games on it for sure though, PowerStone Collection, Mega Man Powered Up, the Jak & Dexter, and Ratchet & Clank games for sure.
I hope all those are up on PSN or will shortly be up.[/QUOTE]
I know Mega Man Powered Up and PowerStone Collection are up on PSN.
I hope all those are up on PSN or will shortly be up.[/QUOTE]
I know Mega Man Powered Up and PowerStone Collection are up on PSN.
LinkinPrime
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Sweet! Thank you.
paddlefoot
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What I don't get is the price. For years Sony, Sega, Microsoft, and Nintendo have sold there new systems at cost or at a loss. Why does Sony decide to get cute when they develop a system completely skewed in their favor?
I feel like this system should cost as much as a DSlite.
I really wanted one of these. Would have even traded in a lot of my physical UMD discs if that is what it took.
I feel like this system should cost as much as a DSlite.
I really wanted one of these. Would have even traded in a lot of my physical UMD discs if that is what it took.
Everyone should remember that Sony never intended PSP Go for core gamers. They're trying to emulate the success of the iPhone/iTouch, hence focusing on making the system as portable as possible to more competently compete for pocket space. Kids now a days, and thus consumers of the future who will ultimately be replacing us, are much more accepting of digital downloads as is evident by the iPod's success.
The lack of UMD goodwill program is indeed a blow but understandable when most people would simply have gone to Gamestop and bought a bunch of used games on the cheap. What does Sony get in return? Nothing, except for a bigger bill due to bandwidth utilization costs. That's what I certainly would have done and I'm sure almost everyone else who doesn't have a PSP as well (let's be honest, we're all Cheap Asses).
And for everyone who says, "The PSP Go will fail" I recommend you consider the following:
1) The $250 price tag has been stated publicly by Sony executives as the price paid by early adapters. They need to make back money for the greater Playstation division and this is one way.
2) The PSP Go costs less than the PSP Phat to make (lack of UMD drive, smaller form factor, etc). Thus the PSP Go will obviously be dropping in price, and perhaps even faster than people expect as Sony makes more money off the sales of software than hardware.
3) What happens if the PSP Go costs $100 but the PSP Phat stays at $150? How will sales shake out then?
The PSP Go will do just fine and has a strong chance of being a moderate/high market success if the PSN store has games that people genuinely love. The question is, will consumers be willing to carry a cell phone AND a PSP Go at the same time? That may ultimately be the biggest limiting factor and not this rancorous debate about the UMD Goodwill Program.
The lack of UMD goodwill program is indeed a blow but understandable when most people would simply have gone to Gamestop and bought a bunch of used games on the cheap. What does Sony get in return? Nothing, except for a bigger bill due to bandwidth utilization costs. That's what I certainly would have done and I'm sure almost everyone else who doesn't have a PSP as well (let's be honest, we're all Cheap Asses).
And for everyone who says, "The PSP Go will fail" I recommend you consider the following:
1) The $250 price tag has been stated publicly by Sony executives as the price paid by early adapters. They need to make back money for the greater Playstation division and this is one way.
2) The PSP Go costs less than the PSP Phat to make (lack of UMD drive, smaller form factor, etc). Thus the PSP Go will obviously be dropping in price, and perhaps even faster than people expect as Sony makes more money off the sales of software than hardware.
3) What happens if the PSP Go costs $100 but the PSP Phat stays at $150? How will sales shake out then?
The PSP Go will do just fine and has a strong chance of being a moderate/high market success if the PSN store has games that people genuinely love. The question is, will consumers be willing to carry a cell phone AND a PSP Go at the same time? That may ultimately be the biggest limiting factor and not this rancorous debate about the UMD Goodwill Program.
h3llbring3r
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[quote name='paddlefoot']What I don't get is the price. For years Sony, Sega, Microsoft, and Nintendo have sold there new systems at cost or at a loss. Why does Sony decide to get cute when they develop a system completely skewed in their favor?
I feel like this system should cost as much as a DSlite.
I really wanted one of these. Would have even traded in a lot of my physical UMD discs if that is what it took.[/QUOTE]
They are following some new industry profit models and trends with the Wii, DSi, Touch/iPhone and trying to apply them to the PSP platform. Models where the sale of the device itself is profitable or break even. Which explains the high price. This affords the company the ability to earn a lower margin for the software sold. Which in the on the non-PSP platforms affords the lowering of the cost for software and increasing the number of titles the buyer can with the same dollar.
Where Sony has deviated from that model is in the pricing* of the digitally distributed software and support of legacy media on the same platform (note: *this is definitely subject to change and expected to).
With the DSi, Nintendo elected to remove some of its older legacy media abilities but (most importantly) kept it's most recent proprietary format that is specific to this platform's series (the DS cart.). In this venue Sony opted to completely drop it's physical media- leaving current device users out in the cold. This is serious deviation from that model and a sore point for current owners considering buying the newer, sleeker, and more portable iteration.
Whereas, the Touch/iPhone platforms have no legacy media formats to support so that is a non-issue for them. However, the entirety of library will be digitally distributed as will be for the PSPgo. (Making the abandoning of the physical media a "have your cake and eat it too" move at the expense of the consumer & existing device user, in the opinion of some gamers)
So in that regard you have a half-step in between the two models that clearly doesn't benefit the consumer and affects the retailer as we can explore below:
Another key difference is retailer support. It is surmised that Apple supports its retailers by facilitating a more profitable store card (as evidenced by the frequency of the buy 2 get 1 free sales on iTunes cards at big box stores namely Best Buy, walmart . . etc. and the common $30 in iTunes $ GC's that are sold for $20 at membership clubs like costco, sams, BJs). From that one can speculate that the profit on a full priced apple store card is at least in the 33% range.
The PSN store already has retail cards, but they are presumably priced more inline with Live Points and the Wii's cards where the profit margin for the retailer is considerably less. So Sony is hobbled to an extent in how it can help profit those retailers in sales with a solely digitally distributed platform. In that regard Apple succeeds to continue profiting the retailer despite the entirely DD software sales (which is moot for the DSi since its existing physical media is still supported on the newest DD-friendly device on the same platform).
So it becomes a counter-intuitive move for the retailer in terms of software/media sales to support said device with sales. This may explain the $250 US price-point ($300 & $350 equivalent in ¥ and £ respectively). It is speculated that this price point may provide the retailer with an even greater profit margin than the competitors (namely the DSi & apple) and further justifying their continued sales of the new device.
Ergo, despite getting cut out of the software sales side of the profits their is still an incentive for sale. This we wont know as a fact until a tear down is done and a component cost is estimated.
Unfortunately, the aforementioned "even higher than the others" pricing strategy creates a significant hurdle in getting the device in the hands of anyone other than bleeding edge early adopters and tea-totaling Sony brand fans.
In any event a small number retail chains in other countries are electing not to carry the device since they are being effectively & completely cut out of their piece of the software profits and potentially cut out the ability to resell used games further down the road; but (and this is a very important but), this will only come to fruition if this new exclusively DD iteration of the platform were to ever eclipse the original that still utilizes the physical media.
Therefore, in theory it benefits Sony (and in the immediate short term the retailers) to price the PSPgo high enough and make enough concessions in design that the device never does eclipse the ones that support physical media to pacify the retailers.
Now, combine that intentionally flawed & intentionally overpriced by design fact with unsubstantiated rumors of yet another device that continues support the physical media (enter the rumored PSP 4000) that may or may not ever exist and retailers hopefully remain contented enough to sell the device that could lead to their demise. In it's totality making the device only desirable to a select few and neglecting the desires and interest of both the rest of the consumers and retailers the same time. A veritable rope-a-dope, playing both the consumers and retailers.
The device and its new sales model becomes a giant convoluted mess of compromises, intentional half-efforts & flaws, and rumors "by design" in an effort to slowly migrate to a different business model, without alienating any of the key players. In the end both the consumers and the retailers clearly stand the most to lose where- Sony and the developers/publishers stand the most to gain.
So, if you are like me and wanted a smaller sleeker device you have to accept the flaws and compromise your right to ever own your media, which I think the majority of the people are not willing to do. Hopefully all of this will change, but that depends on the retailers and consumers. At the end of the day, all of this is why for those of us who were initially very enthusiastic at the proposition of the go are becoming more and more disgusted with the direction Sony is taking.
This is entirely my take on it-
TMK might have another, and I am sure J7 will chime in with something hardly worth reading.
I feel like this system should cost as much as a DSlite.
I really wanted one of these. Would have even traded in a lot of my physical UMD discs if that is what it took.[/QUOTE]
They are following some new industry profit models and trends with the Wii, DSi, Touch/iPhone and trying to apply them to the PSP platform. Models where the sale of the device itself is profitable or break even. Which explains the high price. This affords the company the ability to earn a lower margin for the software sold. Which in the on the non-PSP platforms affords the lowering of the cost for software and increasing the number of titles the buyer can with the same dollar.
Where Sony has deviated from that model is in the pricing* of the digitally distributed software and support of legacy media on the same platform (note: *this is definitely subject to change and expected to).
With the DSi, Nintendo elected to remove some of its older legacy media abilities but (most importantly) kept it's most recent proprietary format that is specific to this platform's series (the DS cart.). In this venue Sony opted to completely drop it's physical media- leaving current device users out in the cold. This is serious deviation from that model and a sore point for current owners considering buying the newer, sleeker, and more portable iteration.
Whereas, the Touch/iPhone platforms have no legacy media formats to support so that is a non-issue for them. However, the entirety of library will be digitally distributed as will be for the PSPgo. (Making the abandoning of the physical media a "have your cake and eat it too" move at the expense of the consumer & existing device user, in the opinion of some gamers)
So in that regard you have a half-step in between the two models that clearly doesn't benefit the consumer and affects the retailer as we can explore below:
Another key difference is retailer support. It is surmised that Apple supports its retailers by facilitating a more profitable store card (as evidenced by the frequency of the buy 2 get 1 free sales on iTunes cards at big box stores namely Best Buy, walmart . . etc. and the common $30 in iTunes $ GC's that are sold for $20 at membership clubs like costco, sams, BJs). From that one can speculate that the profit on a full priced apple store card is at least in the 33% range.
The PSN store already has retail cards, but they are presumably priced more inline with Live Points and the Wii's cards where the profit margin for the retailer is considerably less. So Sony is hobbled to an extent in how it can help profit those retailers in sales with a solely digitally distributed platform. In that regard Apple succeeds to continue profiting the retailer despite the entirely DD software sales (which is moot for the DSi since its existing physical media is still supported on the newest DD-friendly device on the same platform).
So it becomes a counter-intuitive move for the retailer in terms of software/media sales to support said device with sales. This may explain the $250 US price-point ($300 & $350 equivalent in ¥ and £ respectively). It is speculated that this price point may provide the retailer with an even greater profit margin than the competitors (namely the DSi & apple) and further justifying their continued sales of the new device.
Ergo, despite getting cut out of the software sales side of the profits their is still an incentive for sale. This we wont know as a fact until a tear down is done and a component cost is estimated.
Unfortunately, the aforementioned "even higher than the others" pricing strategy creates a significant hurdle in getting the device in the hands of anyone other than bleeding edge early adopters and tea-totaling Sony brand fans.
In any event a small number retail chains in other countries are electing not to carry the device since they are being effectively & completely cut out of their piece of the software profits and potentially cut out the ability to resell used games further down the road; but (and this is a very important but), this will only come to fruition if this new exclusively DD iteration of the platform were to ever eclipse the original that still utilizes the physical media.
Therefore, in theory it benefits Sony (and in the immediate short term the retailers) to price the PSPgo high enough and make enough concessions in design that the device never does eclipse the ones that support physical media to pacify the retailers.
Now, combine that intentionally flawed & intentionally overpriced by design fact with unsubstantiated rumors of yet another device that continues support the physical media (enter the rumored PSP 4000) that may or may not ever exist and retailers hopefully remain contented enough to sell the device that could lead to their demise. In it's totality making the device only desirable to a select few and neglecting the desires and interest of both the rest of the consumers and retailers the same time. A veritable rope-a-dope, playing both the consumers and retailers.
The device and its new sales model becomes a giant convoluted mess of compromises, intentional half-efforts & flaws, and rumors "by design" in an effort to slowly migrate to a different business model, without alienating any of the key players. In the end both the consumers and the retailers clearly stand the most to lose where- Sony and the developers/publishers stand the most to gain.
So, if you are like me and wanted a smaller sleeker device you have to accept the flaws and compromise your right to ever own your media, which I think the majority of the people are not willing to do. Hopefully all of this will change, but that depends on the retailers and consumers. At the end of the day, all of this is why for those of us who were initially very enthusiastic at the proposition of the go are becoming more and more disgusted with the direction Sony is taking.
This is entirely my take on it-
TMK might have another, and I am sure J7 will chime in with something hardly worth reading.
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starmask2k3
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i just wish it was a Bundle for the price
Tux.Bobble
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[quote name='h3llbring3r']So, if you are like me and wanted a smaller sleeker device you have to accept the flaws and compromise your right to ever own your media, which I think the majority of the people are not willing to do. Hopefully all of this will change, but that depends on the retailers and consumers. At the end of the day, all of this is why for those of us who were initially very enthusiastic at the proposition of the go are becoming more and more disgusted with the direction Sony is taking.[/QUOTE]
I really agree with you on this point. The rest is somewhat accurate, but I don't feel like getting into another waste-of-time long-winded discussion (not meant as offense, it's just too much effort to waste on this) so I won't comment much there.
Ultimately there are two groups people considering the PSP Go fit into. You either own a PSP already, or you do not own a PSP already. (also generally meaning you own UMDs, or do not own UMDs) It seems like that's the distinction that needs to be made right now.
I personally fall into the latter category. I do not own a PSP, and I do not own any UMDs. I would have bought a PSP 2 years ago (but not at launch) if it matched the portability of the Go, regardless of UMD/non-UMD plans. And I am still buying the Go, for the record, because of my Amazon $75 off deal the other month.
I realize that I am "settling" for the Go in the sense that I wish I were able to get UMDs and have them converted somehow to digital vouchers. I wish I could resell used games. But right now, I have to face the facts that, I don't have any UMDs. I can't buy used UMDs from the store for cheap, and still play them. Shame, but I can live with it if I HAVE to. (which I do)
The one problem I have is that people keep saying "just get a 3000". A 3000 does not interest me at all due to its size. It's unfortunate, but it's true. Size is very important to PORTABLE gaming, in my opinion. In fact, after quality of games, it's the MOST important, provided other stats are competitive. (if my battery lasts 8 minutes, I doubt I'm playing the console anyway!!!) So while I admit, for some people "just get a 3000" works fine. But for some, like myself, who have been wanting a truly PORTABLE system, the Go is perfect, physically. I just get annoyed when people inaccurately state "it's a 3000, but without UMD", because it's not. I'll stop ranting there, because I think I've gotten my point across. There is no PSP I would even CONSIDER buying, except the Go. So it's a Go or no Go, for me. It's not a Go vs. a 3000 vs. a DS vs. an iPhone. None of those other systems are for me. (3000 is not the right size. DS is good, but not for me. iPhone sucks for gaming, in my opinion)
I really agree with you on this point. The rest is somewhat accurate, but I don't feel like getting into another waste-of-time long-winded discussion (not meant as offense, it's just too much effort to waste on this) so I won't comment much there.
Ultimately there are two groups people considering the PSP Go fit into. You either own a PSP already, or you do not own a PSP already. (also generally meaning you own UMDs, or do not own UMDs) It seems like that's the distinction that needs to be made right now.
I personally fall into the latter category. I do not own a PSP, and I do not own any UMDs. I would have bought a PSP 2 years ago (but not at launch) if it matched the portability of the Go, regardless of UMD/non-UMD plans. And I am still buying the Go, for the record, because of my Amazon $75 off deal the other month.
I realize that I am "settling" for the Go in the sense that I wish I were able to get UMDs and have them converted somehow to digital vouchers. I wish I could resell used games. But right now, I have to face the facts that, I don't have any UMDs. I can't buy used UMDs from the store for cheap, and still play them. Shame, but I can live with it if I HAVE to. (which I do)
The one problem I have is that people keep saying "just get a 3000". A 3000 does not interest me at all due to its size. It's unfortunate, but it's true. Size is very important to PORTABLE gaming, in my opinion. In fact, after quality of games, it's the MOST important, provided other stats are competitive. (if my battery lasts 8 minutes, I doubt I'm playing the console anyway!!!) So while I admit, for some people "just get a 3000" works fine. But for some, like myself, who have been wanting a truly PORTABLE system, the Go is perfect, physically. I just get annoyed when people inaccurately state "it's a 3000, but without UMD", because it's not. I'll stop ranting there, because I think I've gotten my point across. There is no PSP I would even CONSIDER buying, except the Go. So it's a Go or no Go, for me. It's not a Go vs. a 3000 vs. a DS vs. an iPhone. None of those other systems are for me. (3000 is not the right size. DS is good, but not for me. iPhone sucks for gaming, in my opinion)
CrimsonPaw
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The fact that UMD's aren't able to be ported does not bode well for this system. Yeah, it's smaller and there is no physical media to worry about but the fact remains that at that price point there are better options out there. I'm not saying that this isn't going to sell any units, but the casual audience has been ported to the DS or iPod touch and the core gamers are not going to jump on board since they'll need to repurchase their games.
Not sure why Sony doesn't just allow people to send in their UMD's to get a download code or associate the download to your PSN account. that way there is proof that you own the media and it can't be redistributed. Regardless, my PSP 1000 is still running strong so there's no reason to upgrade.
Not sure why Sony doesn't just allow people to send in their UMD's to get a download code or associate the download to your PSN account. that way there is proof that you own the media and it can't be redistributed. Regardless, my PSP 1000 is still running strong so there's no reason to upgrade.
Tux.Bobble
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[quote name='CrimsonPaw']The fact that UMD's aren't able to be ported does not bode well for this system. Yeah, it's smaller and there is no physical media to worry about but the fact remains that at that price point there are better options out there. I'm not saying that this isn't going to sell any units, but the casual audience has been ported to the DS or iPod touch and the core gamers are not going to jump on board since they'll need to repurchase their games.
Not sure why Sony doesn't just allow people to send in their UMD's to get a download code or associate the download to your PSN account. that way there is proof that you own the media and it can't be redistributed. Regardless, my PSP 1000 is still running strong so there's no reason to upgrade.[/QUOTE]
Well, there are legal reasons why distribution via a certain means occurs the way it does. Sometimes it's pretty arbitrary, other times it's not, but it still exists. I personally believe it SHOULDN'T be an issue, but I do understand that it is.
And as for the casual vs. hardcore audience...you have to consider other things too. I consider myself a hardcore gamer. However, up until October 1st (release-date deivery) I didn't own a portable gaming system AT ALL. I wouldn't even consider the DS/iPhone for reasons I've mentioned before (again, not bashing DS, just not for me) and until now I haven't even considered the PSP. So there's something to be said for the hardcore market that wasn't interested in portables before. The Go is a "sexy" device, in a sense, and when the price drops might convince more people like myself to jump on board. (Though I was already on board with PSP, except in physical form, which is why the Go works for me)
So there's definitely something to be said for hardcore gamers who hadn't/haven't adopted a portable gaming system as of now. I wanted a portable PSP, not a brick-sized PSP. So the hardcore market that follows the same thought process I do, it still might garner a good following...just by a very select audience. Only time will tell I suppose...
And you're definitely right. There's no reason to "upgrade", if you have an older model PSP. Nothing that revolutionary or new. It's really focused on people who don't own PSP/UMDs already, I suppose hence Sony's unwillingness to work harder bridging the gap for the UMD-to-voucher program...
Not sure why Sony doesn't just allow people to send in their UMD's to get a download code or associate the download to your PSN account. that way there is proof that you own the media and it can't be redistributed. Regardless, my PSP 1000 is still running strong so there's no reason to upgrade.[/QUOTE]
Well, there are legal reasons why distribution via a certain means occurs the way it does. Sometimes it's pretty arbitrary, other times it's not, but it still exists. I personally believe it SHOULDN'T be an issue, but I do understand that it is.
And as for the casual vs. hardcore audience...you have to consider other things too. I consider myself a hardcore gamer. However, up until October 1st (release-date deivery) I didn't own a portable gaming system AT ALL. I wouldn't even consider the DS/iPhone for reasons I've mentioned before (again, not bashing DS, just not for me) and until now I haven't even considered the PSP. So there's something to be said for the hardcore market that wasn't interested in portables before. The Go is a "sexy" device, in a sense, and when the price drops might convince more people like myself to jump on board. (Though I was already on board with PSP, except in physical form, which is why the Go works for me)
So there's definitely something to be said for hardcore gamers who hadn't/haven't adopted a portable gaming system as of now. I wanted a portable PSP, not a brick-sized PSP. So the hardcore market that follows the same thought process I do, it still might garner a good following...just by a very select audience. Only time will tell I suppose...
And you're definitely right. There's no reason to "upgrade", if you have an older model PSP. Nothing that revolutionary or new. It's really focused on people who don't own PSP/UMDs already, I suppose hence Sony's unwillingness to work harder bridging the gap for the UMD-to-voucher program...
[quote name='CrimsonPaw']
Not sure why Sony doesn't just allow people to send in their UMD's to get a download code or associate the download to your PSN account. that way there is proof that you own the media and it can't be redistributed.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand it either. A couple times it has been mentioned that if they did the UMD trade/swap program it would result in massive piracy but I don't see how that would happen.
Obviously, the above method would not work for every game but for first or second party stuff, there's no reason that Sony can't generate (for example), a million download codes for Dexter, Rachet and Clank, or Patapon.
Anyhow, I'm about ready to sit back and see what happens. I was predicting dismal sales but some of the Gamefaqs kids are really
ing excited about this so who knows?
Not sure why Sony doesn't just allow people to send in their UMD's to get a download code or associate the download to your PSN account. that way there is proof that you own the media and it can't be redistributed.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand it either. A couple times it has been mentioned that if they did the UMD trade/swap program it would result in massive piracy but I don't see how that would happen.
Obviously, the above method would not work for every game but for first or second party stuff, there's no reason that Sony can't generate (for example), a million download codes for Dexter, Rachet and Clank, or Patapon.
Anyhow, I'm about ready to sit back and see what happens. I was predicting dismal sales but some of the Gamefaqs kids are really
ing excited about this so who knows?
h3llbring3r
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[quote name='Tux.Bobble']
The one problem I have is that people keep saying "just get a 3000". A 3000 does not interest me at all due to its size. It's unfortunate, but it's true. Size is very important to PORTABLE gaming, in my opinion. In fact, after quality of games, it's the MOST important, provided other stats are competitive. (if my battery lasts 8 minutes, I doubt I'm playing the console anyway!!!) So while I admit, for some people "just get a 3000" works fine. But for some, like myself, who have been wanting a truly PORTABLE system, the Go is perfect, physically. I just get annoyed when people inaccurately state "it's a 3000, but without UMD", because it's not. I'll stop ranting there, because I think I've gotten my point across. There is no PSP I would even CONSIDER buying, except the Go. So it's a Go or no Go, for me. It's not a Go vs. a 3000 vs. a DS vs. an iPhone. None of those other systems are for me. (3000 is not the right size. DS is good, but not for me. iPhone sucks for gaming, in my opinion)[/QUOTE]
Very good point about the 3k. I own a 2k and because of its size ended up lending it long term to a family member. However, there are plenty of games that I already own and would like to own on UMD- and for now, the PSPgo ignores everyone in that boat. I also don't like the fact that if I buy a full price digitally distributed game and find no re-playability in it then I am stuck with it; with no recourse or ability to resell it to mitigate its cost. A rent with option to buy program would solve this and it's been bantered and rumored, but so have a lot of other things; and in the majority of the cases with these issues when it would benefit the consumer at the expense of the publisher it's a no go.
The one problem I have is that people keep saying "just get a 3000". A 3000 does not interest me at all due to its size. It's unfortunate, but it's true. Size is very important to PORTABLE gaming, in my opinion. In fact, after quality of games, it's the MOST important, provided other stats are competitive. (if my battery lasts 8 minutes, I doubt I'm playing the console anyway!!!) So while I admit, for some people "just get a 3000" works fine. But for some, like myself, who have been wanting a truly PORTABLE system, the Go is perfect, physically. I just get annoyed when people inaccurately state "it's a 3000, but without UMD", because it's not. I'll stop ranting there, because I think I've gotten my point across. There is no PSP I would even CONSIDER buying, except the Go. So it's a Go or no Go, for me. It's not a Go vs. a 3000 vs. a DS vs. an iPhone. None of those other systems are for me. (3000 is not the right size. DS is good, but not for me. iPhone sucks for gaming, in my opinion)[/QUOTE]
Very good point about the 3k. I own a 2k and because of its size ended up lending it long term to a family member. However, there are plenty of games that I already own and would like to own on UMD- and for now, the PSPgo ignores everyone in that boat. I also don't like the fact that if I buy a full price digitally distributed game and find no re-playability in it then I am stuck with it; with no recourse or ability to resell it to mitigate its cost. A rent with option to buy program would solve this and it's been bantered and rumored, but so have a lot of other things; and in the majority of the cases with these issues when it would benefit the consumer at the expense of the publisher it's a no go.
CoffeeEdge
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The PSP Go's price makes absolutely no sense, compared to the regular PSP.
They shrank the screen by ~12%, eliminated all of the complex moving parts, and only added 16GB of flash memory (which probably costs well under $10 at industrial prices) and a Bluetooth chip (again, costs a couple bucks, industrial), and somehow, this justifies a $80, or nearly 50% price increase over the 3000?
Bullshit.
I also like how they made sure to not mention the eensy-weensy little detail of the UMD conversion program being nixed, until about a week before launch.
The Go just quantitatively makes no sense whatsoever.
[quote name='paddlefoot']What I don't get is the price. For years Sony, Sega, Microsoft, and Nintendo have sold there new systems at cost or at a loss.[/quote]
Nintendo makes a profit on Wii hardware.
They shrank the screen by ~12%, eliminated all of the complex moving parts, and only added 16GB of flash memory (which probably costs well under $10 at industrial prices) and a Bluetooth chip (again, costs a couple bucks, industrial), and somehow, this justifies a $80, or nearly 50% price increase over the 3000?
Bullshit.
I also like how they made sure to not mention the eensy-weensy little detail of the UMD conversion program being nixed, until about a week before launch.
The Go just quantitatively makes no sense whatsoever.
[quote name='paddlefoot']What I don't get is the price. For years Sony, Sega, Microsoft, and Nintendo have sold there new systems at cost or at a loss.[/quote]
Nintendo makes a profit on Wii hardware.
Malik112099
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Sony's biggest mistake with the PSP Go is thAt it isn't a redesigned PSP 2.
[quote name='Malik112099']Sony's biggest mistake with the PSP Go is thAt it isn't a redesigned PSP 2.[/QUOTE]
Um, bringing out the PSP2 now when the PS3 is just starting to finally take off would be financial suicide. Give it a couple of years and I think we'll see the PSP2 but for now, the PSP Go is a great way to test DD's on the PSN. It lets Sony iron out some kinks without feeling rushed.
Um, bringing out the PSP2 now when the PS3 is just starting to finally take off would be financial suicide. Give it a couple of years and I think we'll see the PSP2 but for now, the PSP Go is a great way to test DD's on the PSN. It lets Sony iron out some kinks without feeling rushed.
Get ready for a big Download Dump from Sony when the PSP Go launches.
From Destructoid.com
235 downloadable games is great. As for the other 98.5% of the alleged 16,000 pieces, I wonder how much of it was already available on PSN and Sony is just throwing a "ZOMG BIG NUMBER" number out there for media attention.
I'm more curious, however, how much Sony is going to cost the UMD Legacy games. If they're full retail price then they'll be absolute hell to pay! HELL I TELL YOU!!!
From Destructoid.com
235 downloadable games is great. As for the other 98.5% of the alleged 16,000 pieces, I wonder how much of it was already available on PSN and Sony is just throwing a "ZOMG BIG NUMBER" number out there for media attention.
I'm more curious, however, how much Sony is going to cost the UMD Legacy games. If they're full retail price then they'll be absolute hell to pay! HELL I TELL YOU!!!
FriskyTanuki
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It'll be retail for new stuff and older stuff is up to the publisher, like Manhunt 2 for $30. :lol: I wonder if the games number includes any of the stuff that's already up there.
I'm definitely down with buying some PSone games and will check out some PSP legacy if the price is right (which it probably wont be). Their 16,000 pieces of downloadable content with 13,300 of them being crappy TV episodes is a joke. Isn't that what hulu and DVR's are for?
bread's done